ZCerberus Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Well, I like most of this. For the most part, the technical issues are all there, except I think that more people should be on the administrative body for the next story arch (I think I laid out a good leadership plan in my proposed constitution, even if some details need to be hammered out). I read the constitution, but my concerns about rotating leadership are still the same. Since the decision making authority is separated into multiple people right now, and some of them are busy with other work/duties, you have noticed things have ground to a halt on more than one occasion. This would continue if we kept having multiple decision makers. Honestly, right now 70% of the work gets done by one person, and he is the only one who hasn't burnt out yet. As for the plotline... I am a little iffy. The plot itself is good, but dividing up the guilds into teams rather than competing as guilds seems counter to the history of the project so far. I like all you Avalonians, but I like my team more. I wouldn't want to go ripping up the guilds for builder balance. I don't think this is what you are proposing, but the way it is written, I get that feeling. It is some of what I was proposing, but see below on the limited impact. Wouldn't you like to work with soccerkid6 for a brief period? Or Legonado? It would only be for one challenge period. We have had major problems in that Nocturnus, with the fewest participants, and Avalonia with the most are they are last and first in guild scoring respectively. Quiescence? Doubtful. Some competitive balance is needed going forward, but again, see below. It would also give people the opportunity to build and try out the styles of other guilds. You would still be a Kaliphlin if YOU wanted to be, but you could also try to be a Nocturnian for a single challenge too! Also, by focusing so much on Nocturnus (for a full 6 challenge story arch), I wonder if we are limiting ourselves a little too much. Maybe the conflict starts in Nocturnus and spreads like wildfire to the territories of the other guilds in the later challenges? It wouldn't be for a full 6 challenge arc. It would be for one single, 3 category challenge. If the idea worked, then we would move to OTHER Guilds and do the same thing. Next challenge could be in Avalonia, or Kaliphlin, or Varlyrio, or somewhere else . When we move to that guild, again, the members of that guild can pick their side immediately, then we balance the rest. You are not REQUIRED to participate in any challenge, but it would open you up to play with new people. My thought was when we move to each guild for that challenge, the guild nominates someone or two someones to help develop the story and act as the figure head for the two competing sides. Lastly, I think we all understand that leadership has other parts of their life to tend to, but I think there were many volunteers that would help step in and run things, and rotations would keep everyone from burning out. I don't think anyone wants to rip the baby from the arms of our mother creators here, they just want to provide a nanny for the project. Each guild leader is still held in high esteem, even if they have not been able to participate as much as possible. I hope none of them feel as if we are ungrateful to them by wanting to have more hands on control of the project. But the leaders have regulator type powers and the EB staff does NOT like the number of those we already have running around. We also are currently without a MOD. I put in a request to get one, but it is progressing slowly. With that in mind, the nanny's as you say would be fairly powerless and not accountable. We also could not offer official prizes unless it went through staff. The leaders might also really like a chance to participate in challenge or too. I know Ecc and myself tried to balance running things with building and it is really super tough. At first, when ISC was setting this up, he said to the original leaders it would "not really be any extra work" which proved to be completely false. And see Si-MOCs comments in your own guild thread. People are always free to build outside the challenges (like Masa said), but for cohesion and accountability and cohesion (yes, really meant to put this in again) purposes, it would be good to keep a limited number of the same people to oversee some of the action.
SkaForHire Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I agree that it is key to keep things running and not burn out the Guild Leaders, bit this can be accomplished with the vice guild leaders or the creation of guild positions similar to what Mitgardia has done. I think we can agree that GoH did not "break down" during the first Chapter, there was just less guild leader interaction within each guild then some people wanted. By getting help at the guild level, the guild leaders will not be overtaxed like they were in the first Chapter. This will also allow for more input and participation by members at the guild level, which is what most people have been asking for. I think the main storyline was great for the first Chapter and I think it would suffer if it were spread out through multiple authors. I think we are more on the same page here than I think, but I don't agree with the last line -- but we can agree to disagree. I agree the storyline was great, but I don't think multiple authors would hurt the story as long as it was only one group of authors at a time. I am not saying 9 people at a time start writing different plots and try to fit them together, but a different three or four each story arc. I read the constitution, but my concerns about rotating leadership are still the same. Since the decision making authority is separated into multiple people right now, and some of them are busy with other work/duties, you have noticed things have ground to a halt on more than one occasion. This would continue if we kept having multiple decision makers. Honestly, right now 70% of the work gets done by one person, and he is the only one who hasn't burnt out yet. It is some of what I was proposing, but see below on the limited impact. Wouldn't you like to work with soccerkid6 for a brief period? Or Legonado? It would only be for one challenge period. We have had major problems in that Nocturnus, with the fewest participants, and Avalonia with the most are they are last and first in guild scoring respectively. Quiescence? Doubtful. Some competitive balance is needed going forward, but again, see below. It would also give people the opportunity to build and try out the styles of other guilds. You would still be a Kaliphlin if YOU wanted to be, but you could also try to be a Nocturnian for a single challenge too! It wouldn't be for a full 6 challenge arc. It would be for one single, 3 category challenge. If the idea worked, then we would move to OTHER Guilds and do the same thing. Next challenge could be in Avalonia, or Kaliphlin, or Varlyrio, or somewhere else . When we move to that guild, again, the members of that guild can pick their side immediately, then we balance the rest. You are not REQUIRED to participate in any challenge, but it would open you up to play with new people. My thought was when we move to each guild for that challenge, the guild nominates someone or two someones to help develop the story and act as the figure head for the two competing sides. But the leaders have regulator type powers and the EB staff does NOT like the number of those we already have running around. We also are currently without a MOD. I put in a request to get one, but it is progressing slowly. With that in mind, the nanny's as you say would be fairly powerless and not accountable. We also could not offer official prizes unless it went through staff. The leaders might also really like a chance to participate in challenge or too. I know Ecc and myself tried to balance running things with building and it is really super tough. At first, when ISC was setting this up, he said to the original leaders it would "not really be any extra work" which proved to be completely false. And see Si-MOCs comments in your own guild thread. People are always free to build outside the challenges (like Masa said), but for cohesion and accountability and cohesion (yes, really meant to put this in again) purposes, it would be good to keep a limited number of the same people to oversee some of the action. I agree there needs to be an executive leader that makes the hard decisions, but a little more input from different people on challenge creation, plot, etc... could only help to keep things moving. We (the public) don't know the hierarchy of how GoH runs, so that might be part of why the confusion has begun. For example, were the 4 guild leaders equal partners in running the project? Did they all have to consent to a challenge or an idea before it was implemented? If so, I can see why things got so bogged down. Like I have said, we are all trying to make a sustainable project here, and I think many of the various ideas we have had as a group are forming the next chapter. It is good to go through this discussion though.
gedren_y Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I see all these ideas about the future of GOH. I like pieces of them all, but Z's proposal seems to be the most viable. Because of EB Board Rules, we need actual EB officials to run prize challenges. Ska's issue seems to be about the decision making process. Maybe we need a little transparency about how the leaders (whomever takes over) come to the decisions that they do. Most of us only get to see the final decision, and don't get to see that the leaders have actually considered our suggestions. On to character stuff: From the desk of Aturl Prndrn, Minister of External Affairs: Rumors of a coming war in Nocturnus puts the Nestlands Clans on high alert. The Drow Rebellion (now aborted) made many uneasy. Our mineral wealth and close proximity make us a potentially profitable target. Economic and defense treaties have been signed now, though, and our position is less tenuous. Any internal Nocturnus feuds that spill into the Nestlands will be met with force to both sides. If Nocturnian citizens bring their fight here, they will have an enemy on two fronts.
ZCerberus Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Why does GoH need to change anyway? Change can be good, but more than that, there are some real issues that could be addressed as well. We started out with many more members than we have now, and while I feel a lot of people have really developed their talents, we also want the world to thrive and survive. Capturing some of the original intrigue and offering shorter challenges with faster results could allow more people to participate in the fun. It would also be fun to have focused stories set in each guild to help develop each land.
Kayne Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Z, I think you are right on with that last comment in particular. I think that GoH started out with a lot of intrigue and drew in lots of interest. As the challenges became more in depth and, well challenging we seemed to lose some steam in terms of number of participants. At the same time, over on CCC the Lands of CC started. I honestly haven't looked much into that, but from what I see in Flickr posts, etc...those challenges seem to be less in depth and they seem to have picked up some our people that left. While it seems to me that we have a much more in depth story arc, they have the numbers in terms of builders. I think that what you are working towards sounds like the right mix of story and less involved challenges that can get us the both of best worlds in terms of participation and rewarding storylines. By no means do I want to copy LCC, since we are the "originals" here, but by opening it up to a broader base of builders we may be able to really bolster our ranks and add in some more new blood and excitement like we had in the beginning. I like the idea of some set rotations of challenges in the differing guilds, and could probably incorporate our current characters as you stated but at the same time try out new building techniques. I must say that I am really pleased with the idea of 3 different categories for each challenge as that could allow for an even more diverse set of entries each time. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that the majority of my growth came from seeing what others are doing and adjusting to my own style. By bringing in others and other styles, I think that we will all benefit. My only complaint here is that I am really itching for another challenge, so let's get rolling! I am kidding a bit here, as I would much rather get it right and really help out GoH than just start another arc of challenges, but the sooner we get going, the better.
ZCerberus Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Thanks for the input guys. It seems like there is some good support to having the three categories, which was one of the main thrusts I wanted to infuse. I want to make access for new people low so we can build up the base again and get even more new MOCers and players. I am also glad some of you are looking forward to trying out new guilds.
robuko Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 I do appreciate all the hard work that so many people have put into running an amazing project, especially all the guild leaders, and Ecc and ZC for stepping up. I don't have strong views on future game mechanics, I will probably go along with whatever. The PGTC is not conflict-driven but is happy to supply the highest bidder with weapons et c. I would hate to see Kali broken apart though. I have already built in Nocturnus, Avalonia and Mitgardia styles and I am happy to develop any of them further (Nocturnus is the most fun). @CBB, I too would like to hear your suggestions, you have so many amazing creative ideas that I am sure you have a lot of great thoughts to contribute on game mechanics. ZC has put in an incredible amount of work to keep us going and is obviously someone who is totally open minded on constructive feedback. If you are serious about changing guilds, you have prove yourself in the top ranks of Kaliphlin builders already, although I have harboured my suspicions about Zakon's Nocturnus sympathies since the "lake of blood" incident
Maxim I Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Wow, finding sigfigs and characters is difficult!!!! Thanks to Kai it is already a bit easier, but not everyone has already helped him... Please to all members: update your info every now and then in the Characters topic by Kai + AND + on the wiki!!! It is so much more fun when it is easy for someone to quickly find another member his/her sigfig to use in a MOC!!!! Atm, I kinda feel like I am being punished for wanting to put as much sigfigs and characters as possible in my next MOC (especially as I am in the middle of my exams, so I prefer to build things instead of losing hours to find some sigfigs...) Edited June 3, 2013 by Damaximus
ZCerberus Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Don't forget to vote for the official lore. Getting that squared away can help formulate how to move on. In case you are too lazy to find it in the forum, it is here.
Rogue Angel Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Wow, finding sigfigs and characters is difficult!!!! Thanks to Kai it is already a bit easier, but not everyone has already helped him... Please to all members: update your info every now and then in the Characters topic by Kai + AND + on the wiki!!! It is so much more fun when it is easy for someone to quickly find another member his/her sigfig to use in a MOC!!!! Atm, I kinda feel like I am being punished for wanting to put as much sigfigs and characters as possible in my next MOC (especially as I am in the middle of my exams, so I prefer to build things instead of losing hours to find some sigfigs...) I have uploaded pics of a bunch of sigfigs to my brickshelf account, which is where my low rez pics for my MoCs are hosted. I will try to finish uploading tonight and post a link.
Legonardo Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 we need more challenges, quick ones, not longer than a month. also new types of challenges, like a challenge given to two builders, the winner goes on to a new builder or something like that
soccerkid6 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 @Legonardo: If you get permission from EB staff you can start some of your own mini-challenges. I'll hopefully be doing one soon
ZCerberus Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 If you get permission from EB staff you can start some of your own mini-challenges. I'll hopefully be doing one soon Uh- I am pretty sure I know your EB staff liaison... he tells me he hasn't heard anything about this. Yes, I talk to myself.
Kayne Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Z-Thanks for the tags, they look great! Especially in Dark Blue and Red....
ZCerberus Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 So here is what the tags mean... Silver- participated in at least one challenge Gold- Guild leader or participated in at least 3 challenges Those of you who haven't built in a challenge or who are new, you'll get a shot to get one eventually to! Heck, look how long it took to get these out! Honestly, the one I think looks "best" is the silver Avalonian one, though it would be the most common tag by 1. The rarest tag is the Nocty Gold. I think only 4 people have one of those! Again, thanks to everyone who worked on the tags and Foog for getting them all assigned.
Yooha Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Silver- participated in at least one challenge Gold- Guild leader or participated in at least 3 challenges It looks like I will never have a tag then :( Won't there be a frameless tag for "posted at least x free builds in any form"?
ZCerberus Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 It's possible your efforts will be rewarded some day, that was the criteria for the first round of tags. Like I said, those new to the project now have something to work towards!
Maxim I Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Thanks ZC and the whole EB-staff!! It kinda feel likes a coronation of a fantastic first part of the Historica tales!
Legofin2012 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) Will have to enter the next challenge to get the tag then ! Edited June 4, 2013 by Legofin2012
kabel Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Those are some really sweet tags (Mitgardia gold of course being the best )! Thanks a lot Z!
Maxim I Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) Haha, the only 2 vice-leaders at this moment (Trian of Avalonia & Besdarc of Mitgardia) are probably the only characters in Historica from who I can't recreate the clothing So to ZC and Ecc: First one who answers can choose between the bunny costume or the bee costume Edited June 4, 2013 by Damaximus
Ecclesiastes Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Dibs on bunny They seem to be cute, but don't mess with bunnies
Maxim I Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Dibs on bunny They seem to be cute, but don't mess with bunnies Noted Oh to all Mitgardians: Mpya Stedor needs tons of beer the next weeks! So everyone feel free to make a MOC where you show a tradecaravan on their way to my city! Even Avalonians, Kaliphlins or Nocturnians can make a MOC where a Mitgardian tradecaravan is crossing their territory Oh, and for the complete story: please also include your sigfig in it as he or she will be expected in the city to attend a big celebration
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