I apologize if this type of question is seen as inappropriate, but from reading over these forums for several weeks now, it's probably worth asking. First, some background. I have a two year old daughter who likes Lego (would rather play with mine than her Duplos), and another child on the way, so for the short term, this is more a hobby for me than the kids, but I want to keep the kids in mind.

I like railroads a lot, and still have a Fleischman N-scale starter set from when I was much younger. I've dabbled in HO and N scale model building in the past, but not in many years. I like Lego a lot, and am mostly a castle/town guy, but like to have trains in my town.

My problem with Lego is that it seems they refuse to stay with a consistent technology throughout the years. I'm relatively recently out of my dark age and debating whether or not to get into the new PF trains. The last trains I owned were the pre 1990's, but I don't have access to any of that stuff now (supposedly, my dad still has it somewhere). I'm worried that committing to PF will result in frustration when they change technology again. I like the idea of powered rails much better, but that's not what's currently available and I don't want to spend on out of print stuff. I do like that Lego is easily rebuilt into other things, though. Lego trains would be more supplemental to my other Lego, while an HO/N scale layout would be a standalone endeavor. That said, I must admit that I'm still slightly embarrassed to have Lego prominently displayed in my house after a 20+ year dark age, which I wouldn't feel with a more "adult" looking layout.

So here are some of my questions:

1. What tends to cost more? Lego or HO/N stuff?

2. How much space do I need for a Lego layout that would be comparable to a 4 foot by 8 foot HO layout? (I do have space, just not sure how much my wife will let me commit)

3. Any other particular opinions on which you think is the right medium for me based on the above?

Many thanks!

Edited November 10, 201113 yr by fhomess

The first thing I have to ask is what do you plan on doing with your train layout? You have a young daughter, do you plan on

having trains for fun or want to be a serious collector and put them away?

In answer to your first question, I went to a train show that had both Lego and other model trains, including N, HO, O, and other

scales. I guess it varies on the type of train for sale and the amount of detail you want. I've seen locomotives that were

like $300 a piece. A starter lego train set is $150 (US) retail. You can start with that. Yes it does come with plastic

rails, but if you want to "upgrade" to 9v electric you can buy old 9v train track (metal rails) from Ebay or Bricklink or

use ME models (http://www.me-models.com/store/index.php) to get compatible metal rails.

The scale of Lego train hasn't changed since its started.

The new Power Functions train remote is fairly easy to learn to use for children, so you and your daughter can enjoy

lego time together.

A train layout will increase the fun and look of your lego town. Yes, I'm completely biased, but the first time I got

a lego train set, I knew I made the right decision that I had bought the train and became hooked on Lego trains.

Glad to hear your interested in trains & hope you do get a LEGO set. In my past I have had a large N scale layout, that I had to part out when my kids came along, But have got back into trains with LEGO for almost two years now.(Also, due to my kids.) And I prefer my LEGO much more than a hobby grade train set.

But, to answer your questions, to the best of my knowledge:

1.Hobby scale trains (HO/N)overall are probably cheaper for engines, rolling stock, track pieces(easier to amass),and accessories(buildings-landscapeing). But a good hobby speed controller is pretty expensive.

2.LEGO scale is about 50% bigger than HO (my estimate) so, a 4x8 HO would probably be close to 6x10 in LEGO. But, keep in mind LEGO is limited in layout designs due to track pieces.

3.I recommend going with the LEGO, it can have multiple uses, is more kid-friendly(quality time), and can be dissassmbled easier for storage. (drawback: it may take longer to build up a cityscape andcreate a track layout, But, who's in a rush anyway(a layout is never completely finished, there's always something to change or improve!)

And last, I believe PF will be around for quite some time, and although LEGO has changed some technologies, I feel they try to develop them to cooperate with the previous materials.

Best of luck!

Oh yeah, and about being embarassed about playing with LEGO, some of my friends have chuckled at me, but, become very interested when I show them how much detail and realness can be created with LEGO. Do what makes YOU happy!

Edited November 10, 201113 yr by stacker9000

Thanks for the responses!

The first thing I have to ask is what do you plan on doing with your train layout? You have a young daughter, do you plan on having trains for fun or want to be a serious collector and put them away?

I'm not too big into the collector side. This is about having fun. My daughter does actually like trains quite a bit already, and I'm hoping that by encouraging that interest, she'll keep it as she gets older.

In answer to your first question, I went to a train show that had both Lego and other model trains, including N, HO, O, and other scales. I guess it varies on the type of train for sale and the amount of detail you want. I've seen locomotives that were like $300 a piece. A starter lego train set is $150 (US) retail. You can start with that. Yes it does come with plastic rails, but if you want to "upgrade" to 9v electric you can buy old 9v train track (metal rails) from Ebay or Bricklink or use ME models (http://www.me-models.com/store/index.php) to get compatible metal rails.

1.Hobby scale trains (HO/N)overall are probably cheaper for engines, rolling stock, track pieces(easier to amass),and accessories(buildings-landscapeing). But a good hobby speed controller is pretty expensive.

Ok... I do seem to recall thinking that $150 for a starter set was a bit more than HO/N, but for that you get something that is easier to replace parts on and far more kid friendly.

The scale of Lego train hasn't changed since its started.

The new Power Functions train remote is fairly easy to learn to use for children, so you and your daughter can enjoy lego time together.

Thanks. Both of these comments sound appealing to me.

Glad to hear your interested in trains & hope you do get a LEGO set. In my past I have had a large N scale layout, that I had to part out when my kids came along, But have got back into trains with LEGO for almost two years now.(Also, due to my kids.) And I prefer my LEGO much more than a hobby grade train set.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I could probably have a hobby grade set and keep my kids off it, but I'm not sure I'd want to.

2.LEGO scale is about 50% bigger than HO (my estimate) so, a 4x8 HO would probably be close to 6x10 in LEGO. But, keep in mind LEGO is limited in layout designs due to track pieces.

That seems like something I could reasonably manage.

3.I recommend going with the LEGO, it can have multiple uses, is more kid-friendly(quality time), and can be dissassmbled easier for storage. (drawback: it may take longer to build up a cityscape andcreate a track layout, But, who's in a rush anyway(a layout is never completely finished, there's always something to change or improve!)

And last, I believe PF will be around for quite some time, and although LEGO has changed some technologies, I feel they try to develop them to cooperate with the previous materials.

Thanks... one thing I remember about HO/N scale from when I was a kid was that while the trains were ready out of the box, it seemed to take a long time to build up scenery. Custom making anything was always a chore.

Thanks for the responses... this thread was probably more about me trying to figure out if I'm really ready to take the plunge. The 7939 is pretty neat, although I may end up being more of a passenger train guy.

A train layout will increase the fun and look of your lego town. Yes, I'm completely biased, but the first time I got a lego train set, I knew I made the right decision that I had bought the train and became hooked on Lego trains.

I knew this was the "wrong" place to post this!

nice to hear you are interrested, but i do hope you realize this isn't a toy for a 2 year old Electricity isn't something to play with unless you know what you are doing. The LEGO trains may not kill her, but if you have for example a 9 volt train and she grabs on. You can espect a possible trip to the hospital none the less. For those other trains, well they may have even more danger in them. So what ever you choose, please do take care of your 2 year old daughter. She will try to grab those wires or the rail sooner or later, best to be save and stay with her at all times.

Yes, of course. She isn't allowed near this type of stuff without me around, and is actually quite good about not touching things she's not supposed to.

I will likely have to build your Koploper if I go this route...

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by fhomess

Definitely lego :) Especially if it's for fun - not for show.

Our local LUG generally displays at model train shows for the lack of actual lego/scale model shows in our area - though we do make sure there is a strong train presence. It started off with the model train guys being all grumpy at us because it's not a "real" model train, and i think secretly because we drew bigger crowds than them ;) More recently we have been getting more and more of the model train guys coming over and asking about how it all works etc and I think they are starting to take us pretty seriously now. Probably the advent of EN/Maersk/modular sets etc which we have running/on display gives it some more adult appeal too.

Matt

What kind of an answer do you expect to get here?

when I could choose as a child between e.g. marklin and lego… my father rather that I chose for marklin

there were not in that time many possibilities with lego

you found e.g. no natural colours such as green and brown

fortunately for me I had nevertheless chosen for lego

what was in fact strange,

the other trains (miniature)ware more nicely think on the landscapes

but the times change more colours and flowers and plants came standard at lego

and my reason that i chose for lego

with marklin and other models is when the layout stands there, it with difficulty to change samething.

With lego not...you change wat you want to change

and de posibilitis are now much more than in the past

look here:

brickshelf

and website:

fotocollage website

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by patje

Electricity isn't something to play with unless you know what you are doing. The LEGO trains may not kill her, but if you have for example a 9 volt train and she grabs on. You can espect a possible trip to the hospital none the less.

I'm sorry but this is total rubbish. 9V or 12V on a train layout is completely harmless. You can touch the track when the train is at full speed and you'll feel nothing. If you manage to lick both tracks while the train is running (and you need quite a tongue for that!) you may feel a slight tingle in your tongue, that's all.

Now back to the actual question. Lego minifig world is roughly 1:40 scale. N-scale is 1:160, H0 is 1:87 (O-scale is 1:43.5 by the way which is close to minifig. H0 is literally Half 0). So Lego trains have relatively wide track though; N-scale has 9mm gauge, H0 has 16mm, 0-scale has 32mm while Lego has 40mm.

The calculation above from 4x8 to 6x10 is wrong. 4x8 in H0 would be 8x16 in Lego if not bigger; it's the length and the width that double, not the area. Having said that, Lego tracks ridiculously tight curves (compared to normal model railway) helps keep layouts a bit smaller. To give you an idea: a circle of track in L-gauge is about 2 1/2 feet in diameter.

So should you go for Lego or N/H0? It depends what you want to get out of it but because of the children I'd say go for Lego. Your daughter will be able to take part in another year or so. It'll probably be another 10 years before she can put H0-scale scenery together.

nice to hear you are interrested, but i do hope you realize this isn't a toy for a 2 year old Electricity isn't something to play with unless you know what you are doing. The LEGO trains may not kill her, but if you have for example a 9 volt train and she grabs on.

That's bullcrap. I used to get 'electrocuted' all the time by my LEGO trains when I was like 5 years old. I also got hit by 220v multiple times when I was a bit older and it never left anything permanent.

I would also definitely pick LEGO for the reasons listed earlier by others:

- Cheap, easy to get by

- Easy to build and tear down

- Easy to keep in a smallish area

- Can endlessly build and rebuild

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by Sokratesz

The LEGO trains may not kill her, but if you have for example a 9 volt train and she grabs on. You can espect a possible trip to the hospital none the less.

I'm sorry... I had to laugh. Put your tongue on one of these (with an ambulence waiting of course ).

I had a bit of a HO layout going when I was young, but that really doesn't compare to what I can do now with Lego. Seeing you're looking to play with it, Lego is a no-brainer: it's fun for your children to play with, and they can't really break anything like a model train set. And as an adult, you can build more detailed creations to your heart's content. Just browse this forum for inspiration. Cost wise, I'd say they're fairly similar: Some parts are dirt cheap (bricks) and others can be expensive (track). But seeing a HO scale tree (just one) for sale at retailer near me for $30 USD made my jaw drop.

As for your other concern, the current Power Functions (PF) system is battery operated, but it has been done that way to be consistent with the entire Lego catalogue. Everything that has motors or other electrical functions now use this system, so expect it to be around for a (long) while. And again, the gauge of track has not changed since it's inception.

...

So here are some of my questions:

1. What tends to cost more? Lego or HO/N stuff?

2. How much space do I need for a Lego layout that would be comparable to a 4 foot by 8 foot HO layout? (I do have space, just not sure how much my wife will let me commit)

3. Any other particular opinions on which you think is the right medium for me based on the above?

Many thanks!

Hi there,

1. I have no idea what Märklin/Fleischmann costs. Actually, I think the official Lego sets cost about the same.

2. Lego layouts do requires much more space - but do you ever have enough?

3. If you want the kids to be able to participate I would go for Lego. With Lego they can make their own creations and the constructions are relatively more robust. If the kids want to participate, depends on them and the 'supervisor'; if they are not born constructors, forget it - if you do not have the patience to let them play (and yes, sometimes break down some of the existing constructions), forget it. I have had some wonderful hours playing together with my kids: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=61528&view=findpost&p=1043497. But I have to admit: if you want to join some train club to find like-minded enthusiasts, it is probably easier to start with non-Lego. I like the endless possibilities Lego offer, eg. search this forum for the wonderful MOCs made!

I apologize if this type of question is seen as inappropriate, but from reading over these forums for several weeks now, it's probably worth asking. First, some background. I have a two year old daughter who likes Lego (would rather play with mine than her Duplos), and another child on the way, so for the short term, this is more a hobby for me than the kids, but I want to keep the kids in mind.

I like railroads a lot, and still have a Fleischman N-scale starter set from when I was much younger. I've dabbled in HO and N scale model building in the past, but not in many years. I like Lego a lot, and am mostly a castle/town guy, but like to have trains in my town.

My problem with Lego is that it seems they refuse to stay with a consistent technology throughout the years. I'm relatively recently out of my dark age and debating whether or not to get into the new PF trains. The last trains I owned were the pre 1990's, but I don't have access to any of that stuff now (supposedly, my dad still has it somewhere). I'm worried that committing to PF will result in frustration when they change technology again. I like the idea of powered rails much better, but that's not what's currently available and I don't want to spend on out of print stuff. I do like that Lego is easily rebuilt into other things, though. Lego trains would be more supplemental to my other Lego, while an HO/N scale layout would be a standalone endeavor. That said, I must admit that I'm still slightly embarrassed to have Lego prominently displayed in my house after a 20+ year dark age, which I wouldn't feel with a more "adult" looking layout.

So here are some of my questions:

1. What tends to cost more? Lego or HO/N stuff?

2. How much space do I need for a Lego layout that would be comparable to a 4 foot by 8 foot HO layout? (I do have space, just not sure how much my wife will let me commit)

3. Any other particular opinions on which you think is the right medium for me based on the above?

Many thanks!

You are in a similar position to where I was two years ago! I now have a 4-yo daughter and a 2-yo son, I am a fan of Lego Trains most of every theme and I also had a small history of HO modelling when I was a child, and thought later in my teenage years whether it was worth getting back into that.

Here is a summary of my decisions, take these as a possibility but not necessarily a suggestion

1. Last time I checked (admittedly, more than 10 years ago), train models were much more expensive than Lego. If I ever went back to train modelling, it would have certainly be N gauge because it is so much better in terms of space. I suppose HO will save you quite some money compared to N, but you should really check how much space you have (I didn't have and still wouldn't have nowadays). Z gauge is only slightly smaller than N and has much less variety/availability so I didn't even consider it.

The biggest problem with HO/N models compared to Lego Trains is that you aren't actually in the hobby until you start planning a whole layout. Which is obviously a HUGE work, lots of money and lots of time, and once you're finished you're kind of in trouble because that's it... unless you start a second one, it's usually quite hard to extend an existing, complete layout.

With Lego Trains instead, you are already in the hobby by the time you start designing your first locomotive (or whatever). You don't need space until you really, actually need it There is no minimum to be a Lego Train hobbyist, one single model is enough. This allows you to eventually work on a layout "bottom-up" instead of "top-down". Of course, expert Lego Train hobbyists often make a "top-down" layout project, but the beauty is that you don't have to until you have enough resources (time, money & space). The "entry barrier" is much lower!

That's where I am today: no time, money & space yet to commit on a layout, I'm content enough on designing some individual models for now.

Add to that the quite obvious fact that Lego allows you to undo/modify all your models, so your "project" (and your fun) never ends!! But until you start a first "top-down" layout project, you're protected from the frustration of being unfinished, and even if you make mistakes you can always go back without wasting anything (time is not wasted anyway if you had your fun).

2. I'm not sure about measurements, but I think L (Lego) gauge is close to O gauge, maybe something like 2x HO measurements. Possibly you might need more than 2x due to the problems with fitting multiple Lego tracks, which I believe cannot be packed together as easily as HO tracks can be, at least because in Lego you only have one standard angled curve (it's probably better today with the flexible tracks and also some non-TLG products, but I have no experience with those).

On the other hand, consider that very few Lego Train hobbyists build trains with realistic lengths... even if they pursue realistic loco/wagons length, they never use as many wagons per train as HO/N hobbyists. Lego proportions are anyway "wrong" as soon as you put minifigs into your models, so there's not much to be sad about this. The good part is that it definitely reduces the space required.

3. Power technology: I've always struggled with understanding which would be best for me, so I decided not to bother and design non-motorized trains only. Before I can commit on a layout, it's useless to motorize anything, so I will delay my choice until such time.

If you feel ready already to commit on a layout project, you need to do some homework I presume you've already found out the pros and cons of each system, so you could for instance write them down on a page, then take some time to think on what pro is more important for you, or what con would be more critical. Maybe also you should strive to find an opportunity to see for yourself (for example at an exhibition, or friend's house) how a system works and "feels" to you. And then obviously do not commit all your money at once on the chosen system, make first something small and see if you're happy enough.

Good luck and have fun!!

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by Legoist

What kind of an answer do you expect to get here?

Thanks to all for the responses. I may need a little more space than I thought, but I suppose it ultimately depends on what I do with it and how much money I can commit.

Edited November 11, 201113 yr by fhomess

No, you should not get into LEGO trains.

If you have to ask if you should even do it, then you dont need to go through with it.

Get into LEGO trains to interact with your kids. Get into LEGO trains because you want a LEGO layout. Get into LEGO trains because you enjoy the challenge of working in the medium. Get into LEGO trains because you can run literally anything on the rails, both real and imaginary, factual or completely fantastic. Get into LEGO trains because if they fall on the floor and break you can fix them without glue or having to throw them out.

LEGO trains then run on the same tracks they do now. The only difference is motive power. If this bothers you go with a "real" model train gauge and get exactly what you want. We don't need any more people whining about LEGO changing their system.

I know it sounds harsh but its like buying a car. If it annoys you a little now, you'll just grow to hate it later.

Motive power comes second. Building models comes first. If you can build it then there's a way to power it, and therein lies the challenge, and a reason to get into LEGO trains.

--Tony

Thanks to all for the responses. I may need a little more space than I thought, but I suppose it ultimately depends on what I do with it and how much money I can commit.

Space needed does depend on if you want to concentrate on the train portion (large track layouts, more engines, etc) or the city portion. I created a fairly compact layout that has lots of room inside for building more city stuff if I want to, but not much room for more track.

This is 2 2.5x6 foot folding tables

LEGO trains then run on the same tracks they do now. The only difference is motive power. If this bothers you go with a "real" model train gauge and get exactly what you want. We don't need any more people whining about LEGO changing their system.

I know it sounds harsh but its like buying a car. If it annoys you a little now, you'll just grow to hate it later.

Motive power comes second. Building models comes first. If you can build it then there's a way to power it, and therein lies the challenge, and a reason to get into LEGO trains.

PERFECT! I couldn't agree with your whole post any more than I do but this is the best of the best...

4.5v, 12v, 9v, RC, PF are all just a way to make the models move. They each have their pluses & minuses.

Personally I've never understood the nostalgic 12v thing. Sure the powered switches & crossings are neat but that's what you really want then you can get those parts and add them to a 9v, RC or PF layout, can't you? Most of the models don't appeal to me, they just seem simplistic.

I completely understand the lust for the 9v Models but not the longing for the power delivery system. I mean if you want to run multiple trains on connected tracks then 9v isn't going to do it for you. The models are great though, I mean it truly was the "Golden Age" of Official LEGO Engines & Rolling Stock.

I doubt I even need to say anything about RC, the whole idea of having to build every engine around a fixed receiver/battery box on the same base is just so UN-LEGO I'm not surprised it died as quickly as it did.

While PF has it's downsides (Battery Box and IR Receiver size being the biggest - literally) it seems to be a reasonable compromise. Only time will tel if the PF Era can compare to the 9v Era but I think they're off to an okay start. The Maersk is a great Loco and the "Red Cargo Train" is a nice Shunter. The Passenger & Yellow Cargo Trains are decent renditions of Electric Engines. I'm not a fan of the Emerald Night (I'm not really sure why, just don't like it) but as a model goes it's great.

Isn't it nice that the gauge of the track has remained unchanged through the years?

I think PF will around a while, because it's not just trains is it? They also have PF in some Exclusive sets ,take the Winter Collection and their light pricks for example.

...take the Winter Collection and their light pricks for example.

*giggling at hilarious typo*

I think PF will around a while, because it's not just trains is it? They also have PF in some Exclusive sets ,take the Winter Collection and their light pricks for example.

Nice example. Only....

those light Bricks are NOT PF elements...

1. I have no idea what Märklin/Fleischmann costs. Actually, I think the official Lego sets cost about the same.

I think that depends on where you are. A Fleishmann loco in Australia costs about $600 from a local retailer. The LEGO yellow cargo train on sale $240. For the trains LEGO is much cheaper here. For scenery and buildings it probably evens out or swings the other way. In the US local made HO trains would probably be a lot cheaper than Fleishmann though.

Thanks to all for the responses. I may need a little more space than I thought, but I suppose it ultimately depends on what I do with it and how much money I can commit.

Space is an issue regardless of what kind of setup you use. A small lego loop can be almost the size of a dining table or at the other extreme as big as you like (big is easier done with PF trains). The one serious space advantage is that at the end of the weekend you can pack your track into a tub, put the trains on the shelf and that's it. If you get into model trains then you've still got a massive slab of display to store.

As i mentioned before, our LUG typically only displays at train meets and you see all the model train guys turn up in their specially built enclosed trailers that can hold a few sections of layout without damage - it's all a big ordeal. We have one member who brings a trailer (standard, nothing special) which carries all the tables and also the stands for the kids to view from, and everyone pretty much just brings their section of the display in boxes

Yes, of course. She isn't allowed near this type of stuff without me around, and is actually quite good about not touching things she's not supposed to.

I will likely have to build your Koploper if I go this route...

good to know you keep her away from the dangerous stuff

And for the koploper, feel free to build it. I do have to warn you that I used colors that you likely won't find in the default LEGO series. Stickers are my own make as well. I did not test it for real, so not sure if it will be able to ride on the 9 volt tracks.

for the critics:

May be, but your skin compared to that of a 2 year old is a lot different. So best to be save then sorry. That I try to keep a child save doesn't mean it's wrong

...

Get into LEGO trains to interact with your kids. Get into LEGO trains because you want a LEGO layout. Get into LEGO trains because you enjoy the challenge of working in the medium. Get into LEGO trains because you can run literally anything on the rails, both real and imaginary, factual or completely fantastic. Get into LEGO trains because if they fall on the floor and break you can fix them without glue or having to throw them out.

...

Motive power comes second. Building models comes first. If you can build it then there's a way to power it, and therein lies the challenge, and a reason to get into LEGO trains.

--Tony

Tony,

this is absolutely entirely true - this is what LEGO is about. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you very much for so nicely phrasing it - I will surely quote your post partly or entirely when it comes to "what is LEGO about" related stuff. Wonderful.

Best regards,

Thorsten