Mafia School: The Witchbreed Day II

[Tachyon]

Oh by the way, who do you think wully killed. I say it was cuslo mizzle.

[GingerWookiee]

Seeing as wully has admited to being the serial killer and they are not meant to have aleigences.

Vote: Wully Tuntin (Wuntin)

[Piratedave84]

Wow a lot has been said in my absence, I have to say that most of the theories put forward make sense. If Voltana is the cop and pretends to have received the result has a third party and we decide to lynch Wully (seeing he admitted to being the SK) and he proves to be town, Voltana will FOR SURE be highly suspicious if Wully turns out to be town ... A bold move !!! Seeing that anyone that is not town is against town and likely to kill a townie tonight again I :

Vote : Wully Tuntin (Wuntin)

[GingerWookiee]

Alright lets try again in the right format shall we

Vote: Wully Tuntin (Wuntin)

[Scubacarrot]

I am going to vote for Wully as well, but I would also like to know who you killed last night, and why?

Getting the serial killer out of the way is a good thing, so I Vote: Wully Tintin (Wuntin).

[Darkdragon]

Now that I'm all caught up with the current conversations, here's my take on it.

RE: Wully

I don't like the looks of all of this bandwagon voting for Wully. This is just what happened with Wife of Darth yesterday and look at what a horrible night we had? Yes, Wully has admitted to being a killer - but he has also said he will side with town tonight. If Wully can survive the night and help the town tonight, I think he deserves that chance and we could really use any help we can get.

RE: Flanagan

I am sorry to have voted for him, even though in the end it didn't matter. I wish he would have given a defense of some kind, it is truly sad another town was murdered in the night.

RE: Wife of Darth

It really breaks my heart that nearly everyone jumped on the bandwagon to lynch her yesterday. Yes, she was acting crazy and drawing a lot of attention. I think we can all agree on that. Instead of jumping on the next bandwagon of voting for the first person we see, maybe we should think back to yesterday and who started the nudging of the votes towards a townie.

Today I think it would be better for us to lynch a scum then to lynch a neutral, though I admit that either of those is better than lynching another townie.

Based on what was discussed yesterday, it seems to me that Franklin Holmes started the landslide against Wife of Darth. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, but that is the way it looks to me.

Vote: Franklin Holmes, The Manciple (fhomess)

I look forward to hearing your defence, sir.

[halomaster96]

I don't think that Wully's role is a good thing for us because he'll probably just kill another town member like last night so I will:

VOTE: Wully Tuntin (Wuntin)

[Bricksandparts]

Isn't this a good thing? I mean, if you're a townie, you are happy if someone limits the amount of deaths on your side!

Have you betrayed yourself?

Are we sure that Volcana isn't the cop herself? Maybe she claimed to have received a message, when instead she did the investigation all alone.. revealing her identity would make her a target for scums.

Most times, the SK tries to help the town by killing the scum, but they might kill town too.

[Chromeknight]

Now that I'm all caught up with the current conversations, here's my take on it.

RE: Wully

I don't like the looks of all of this bandwagon voting for Wully. This is just what happened with Wife of Darth yesterday and look at what a horrible night we had? Yes, Wully has admitted to being a killer - but he has also said he will side with town tonight. If Wully can survive the night and help the town tonight, I think he deserves that chance and we could really use any help we can get.

I know I started it.

And this may make me appear flipfloppy and scummy... we all make mistakes. forgive me.

But Dragus is right. WullyTintin is now at 6 votes and if he gets many more he'll be rolled without a chance to defend himself.

I'd really like to hear his response to the flow of voting, but if it's clear he can't be saved, why would he make a plea?

So in the interests of giving WullyTintin time to speak, I'm going to

unvote: WullyTintin (Wuntin)

with the understanding I may put my vote back there if his defense is inadequate.

More talk helps town. Bandwagons help scum. Let's talk people!

[fhomess]

Today I think it would be better for us to lynch a scum then to lynch a neutral, though I admit that either of those is better than lynching another townie.

Based on what was discussed yesterday, it seems to me that Franklin Holmes started the landslide against Wife of Darth. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, but that is the way it looks to me.

Vote: Franklin Holmes, The Manciple (fhomess)

I look forward to hearing your defence, sir.

I voted for Darth yesterday because Darth was all over the place in terms of her approach to the day's activities. Darth was, IMO, a reckless townie, who was likely to cause greater division amongst townies in future days if allowed to be kept alive. Darth accused Sir Carrots openly after what was presented as a brief PM conversation. Yes, we're all on a witch hunt (Witchbreed hunt to be precise), but those are best handled in a sane and logical approach when there's a large chance of killing non-witches. I felt like removing Darth from that equation was an acceptable result even if Darth proved to be town, especially given the lack of any real evidence yet on anyone else. Had Darth changed her approach after the voting period began, I may have changed my vote, but that pattern continued. In addition, as the first voter, I couldn't possibly have known how everyone else would respond. It's the bandwagon voters that I believe are the ones you have to watch out for and analyze whether or not they're really thinking through their vote or just trying to piggyback on something to hide themselves. I also don't feel like I really pushed all that hard to convince others to vote for Darth, and even refrained from repeating myself later in the day. Clearly, I was wrong to think that Darth may have been scum, but I stand by my assertion that Darth's actions as a townie would have made the potential for townies to come together and weed out scum more difficult. Finally, while Flanagan was quick to side with me (getting your vote as a result), no one else really hopped on any bandwagon until quite a time after I had cast my vote. The whole puzzle piece discussion came in between.

[def]

Vote Tally:

Wully Tintin/Wuntin 6 : (volcanicpanik, zakura, Piratedave84, GingerWookiee, Scubacarrot, halomaster96

Franklin Holmes, The Manciple/fhomess 1: (darkdragon)

Just over 24 hours left in the day. Please keep discussing things, or at the very least, place votes. A quiet town is a great hiding place for scum to hide

[Cecilie]

I would have hoped that Wully would try a bit harder to defend himself. Maybe throw out some suggestions to who he thinks is scum, thus providing us with an alternative lynch, and showing us that he's serious about helping the town as a vigilante . If he can't even do that, then he clearly can't be trusted, and there's no other way than to vote him out.

[Chromeknight]

I would have hoped that Wully would try a bit harder to defend himself. Maybe throw out some suggestions to who he thinks is scum, thus providing us with an alternative lynch, and showing us that he's serious about helping the town as a vigilante . If he can't even do that, then he clearly can't be trusted, and there's no other way than to vote him out.

Given our poor serial killer was clearly up last night, perhaps he's having a sleep in.

There's still quite a bit of 'daylight' left.

but sooner than later is better.

There are plenty of people that haven't visited the throne room since voting opened.

[Wuntin]

Oh by the way, who do you think wully killed. I say it was cuslo mizzle.

I would also like to know who you killed last night, and why?

I thought it was obvious who I killed? I am the killer that does not

look like a witchbreed; I killed Cuslo Mizzle.

I killed him because I thought the "Remember, the witchbreed don't

know each other" thing was a ploy to look like a newbie townie.

I'd really like to hear his response to the flow of voting, but if it's clear he can't be saved, why would he make a plea?

So in the interests of giving WullyTintin time to speak, I'm going to

unvote: WullyTintin (Wuntin)

with the understanding I may put my vote back there if his defense is inadequate.

I think I've made most of my case already, but here's a little math

experiment to consider:

If I were out of the equation, one suspected-witchbreed would die

each day (the lynchee) and one townie would die each night (the

witchbreed night-kill).

With me still alive, I would add one suspected-witchbreed death

for each day+night cycle. That is one suspected-witchbreed more

for each confirmed townie.

My presence would also add the possibility (probability?) that the

witchbreed night-kill is not a townie, but me.

I would have hoped that Wully would try a bit harder to defend himself. Maybe throw out some suggestions to who he thinks is scum, thus providing us with an alternative lynch, and showing us that he's serious about helping the town as a vigilante . If he can't even do that, then he clearly can't be trusted, and there's no other way than to vote him out.

I haven't suggested any potential witchbreed because

- I don't know any more than the rest of you.

- I didn't think anyone would listen to me.

Since you're asking, these are my current top suspects:

- I still find Voltana Panana suspicious. Her reaction to my finger-

pointing yesterday was confused and flustered.

- It seems to me that Gilly Wooks speaks quite a lot without

actually saying anything.

Even though these are my current suspicions, if the choice of

victim is left to me I will of course listen to others' suggestions -

both in public and in private.

More talk helps town. Bandwagons help scum. Let's talk people!

Even if you've made up your minds to lynch me today, listen to

Christos. There are still four witchbreed hiding out there and

spending a whole day without getting closer to sniffing them out

is a waste of a day.

Silk and satin underwear! Replace those linen rags today!

[Scubacarrot]

2 things that are wrong with your explanation, you say you will help the town, but why? your winning condition is to be the last man standing? so you will kill town as well.

also you are forgetting that we may still have a vigilante killer, that maybe decided not to kill anyone last night (or he just died last night:hmpf_bad:)

I am not changing my vote.

[Cecilie]

I thought he said that his win condition was only to stay alive until the end? Meaning he can win with either town or scum. But that also means that at any time he can betray us and side with scum instead, if that suddenly seems like the best option for him. It's really hard to be able to trust a neutral serial killer . And about your scum suspects, Voltana should get the benefit of the doubt for presenting us with the investigation information against you. Gilly I'm not so sure about, like you say, he's rather quiet and unhelpful. Wouldn't mind having him say something to defend himself. After all, even if we're not able to lynch a scum today with all this serial killer bandwagoning, we can still think about tomorrow...

And I'm going to hold off my vote a little longer. There's still time to talk some more . I think everyone should help think about who we can lynch tomorrow, instead of quietly accepting that we're lynching a serial killer today and that's that .

[Scubacarrot]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Serial_killer first sentence.

[Cecilie]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Serial_killer first sentence.

Call Wully a liar then. I'm just reiterating what he said

[Tachyon]

Time to eat some cookies and milk

[Wuntin]

2 things that are wrong with your explanation, you say you will help the town, but why? your winning condition is to be the last man standing? so you will kill town as well.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Serial_killer first sentence.

As Cecily says, I responded to a similar statement from you earlier,

but here it is again:

My win condition is not to be the last man standing. My win condition

is to be alive when either the town or the witchbreed win.

If you read through the records of historical witchbreed infestations in

our library, you'll find that this change to the serial killer win condition

is not at all uncommon in our lands. I would start with the latest

Baritone incident.

also you are forgetting that we may still have a vigilante killer, that maybe decided not to kill anyone last night (or he just died last night )

Not forgetting; disregarding. I highly doubt there would be both a serial

killer and a vigilante in a basic situation with only 17 people. If there

was a vigilante out there, however, would two be so bad? If he was

killed, would a replacement be so bad?

But that also means that at any time he can betray us and side with scum instead, if that suddenly seems like the best option for him. It's really hard to be able to trust a neutral serial killer .

That is, of course, a possibility. I can only promise not to betray the

town and hope that you find me trustworthy.

And about your scum suspects, Voltana should get the benefit of the doubt for presenting us with the investigation information against you.

I agree, she should not be persecuted based on my suspicion alone.

Nor will I target her tonight If I'm allowed to live. Coming forth with

the information, however, does not exclude the possibility that she

is witchbreed.

Thick leather aprons for sale; one size fits all!

[Scubacarrot]

Okay I must say I didnt know that the role could have different winning conditions, this changes the situation a bit, of course. Although we have no guarantees that you will not just betray us. I would be prepared to change votes, if I find a better candidate for lynching. For now, I am going to read back on what has been said.

[Cecilie]

I feel like we're at a bit of a standstill here. There are a few people who haven't voted or said anything about who they'd like to vote for since the voting started. Maybe they should come forward with some theories of their own if they don't want to vote for Wully? These are the ones I have in mind (feel free to correct me if I have forgotten something/someone)

Skip Pudding (can't see that he has said a word since voting started)

Yulie Yodie (has not spoken since the voting started as far as I can see)

Biskie Partsy (has only had a short useless statement since voting started)

Franklin Holmes (all I can see is a defense for himself against Dragus' accusation)

Care to add anything interesting to the discussion?

Also, because Voltana seems to be a reliable source of information (Wully has admitted to being "not town" by claiming serial killer after all), I really hope that our doctor will find it in his/her heart to protect her tonight. Even if she's not clear of suspicion yet, we just can't take the chance of losing her already.

[yumiyoshi]

Here I am, sorry for the delay.

I already spoken at the beginning of the day a couple of times.... but still...

At the very moment, I still find Zam, Skip, Hal & Briskie (for adding nothing) to be very misterious.

Franklin and SirCarrot instead have something that is not clear for me.

I cannot say it's a feeling, it's just that I found their words too perfect: they're easy to defend themselves, easy of voting and accusing.

How can they be - or seem - so sure everytime?

About Wully, if he's kept alive, will he decide alone who's to kill, or will he ask around searching/accepting for suggestions?

If he's alone, even if kinda helpful, he's just a loose cannon; instead, iIf we can actually use him as killer, things can change.

I'm not ready to cast my vote.

I know we cannot avoid this, so I want to be sure if voting someone on lynch-danger, or be able to vote for someone that will never have an impact from my vote.

[Darkdragon]

Thank you, Franklin Holmes, for giving back some decent non-panicked information in your defense. I'm currently leaning towards unvoting you, but I just need to weight all the everything (facts, conjecture, guesses, etc) first. I also need to vote for someone, so before I unvote you I have to figure out who else might I vote for. I honestly do not feel that Wully should be lynched today.

There are some ideas rattling around in my mind, but I must wait a bit before I mention them. I do not want to pop off with every little idea and create another unfounded landslide, that is the last thing we need right now. I will be back a little later today with some ideas and reasoning behind them.

[fhomess]

Franklin Holmes (all I can see is a defense for himself against Dragus' accusation)

Care to add anything interesting to the discussion?

Yes, I'll likely be more involved in the discussion the rest of the day than I have been to this point.

Franklin and SirCarrot instead have something that is not clear for me.

I cannot say it's a feeling, it's just that I found their words too perfect: they're easy to defend themselves, easy of voting and accusing.

How can they be - or seem - so sure everytime?

Part of the reason I haven't voted yet today is that I don't feel that anyone stands out the way that Darth did yesterday. Wully is an easy choice and is probably my fallback option if I can't find someone that I feel is likely to be scum amongst all the discussion. That said, today hasn't seen as much action as yesterday did in terms of votes being thrown around. I do like to think through my thoughts quite a bit before posting them. It's important to me that I don't say something demonstrably false, which would likely cause people to vote for me. That said, accusations help information come out. I said that yesterday and I'll say this as long as I'm alive, the more information we have, the more likely we are to be able to solve this thing.

We're often quick to criticise those who don't defend themselves appropriately. It sounds like you're now interested in criticising those who defend themselves quickly or well?

Thank you, Franklin Holmes, for giving back some decent non-panicked information in your defense. I'm currently leaning towards unvoting you, but I just need to weight all the everything (facts, conjecture, guesses, etc) first. I also need to vote for someone, so before I unvote you I have to figure out who else might I vote for.

Fair enough.

In terms of trying to move forward with some other suggestions of people who may require some more explanation, let me start with the two people at the center of today's reveal.

Voltana: You say the cop trusted you enough to share their results from last night with you, but you don't say why the cop should have trusted you. Given Wully's response, I suspect that your information is most likely accurate. However, unless we can understand why the cop trusted you, it seems dangerous to have the cop trusting someone who may be scum. The fact that you were happy to share that Wully was not town and he then just happened to be the Serial Killer is suspicious. Only the the scum would know that not-town would be a Serial Killer. I admit, this could just be coincidence, and the chance that you are indeed town would be formidable since you would provide some protection to the cop via indirectly passing on the information, but it bears some explanation.

Wully: As much as you say you would like to help the town, having your extra kill around each night is only helpful if we really know who scum is, or if we're willing to knock off random townies at a faster rate. If the puzzle is true and there are 4 Witchbreed, then despite the fact that we lost 3 townies already, we still have many more people who would result in an undesirable kill than in a desirable one. If your win condition really is just to be alive at the end, then not only could you choose to side with the Witchbreed, you might actually have incentive to do so. Given that the lynch is uncertain to be scum and the Witchbreed kill is certain to be town, you'd be able to kill off townies and get to your win condition faster.

I'll have some more ideas later after rereading the records from day 1 and what has transpired today.

Just one additional thought on Wully... if we were further along and had a larger contingent of townies who knew they could trust each other, then I think it would be easier to expect you'd be successful with your kill. That said, we may have to accept some casualties to the town in order to get to that point, so the question is really whether or not we want to accept that risk.