Gotham City Mafia: Day Three

[Capt. Redblade]

And that's actually a pretty good idea. Why kill a possible vigilante? If Deadshot's scum, the Ventriloquist is also scum. So if we kill the Ventriloquist and he turns out as criminal, we should propably think aagin about killing Deadshot.

And that's why I'm doing it: because it's a good idea.

[Nightshroud99]

I think you misunderstand the concept of metagaming however I paraphrase metagaming, it's voting based on something that's not part of teh game, like the outer appearance, their actions in previous games situations like this, or something they said in the discussion thread in a parallel dimension. This is not metagaming however I'll paraphrase metagaming.

Oh sorry, I'm still a little green behind the ears.

Err I mean insane I'm just insane and I will think whatever I want!

[Peanuts]

And that's why I'm doing it: because it's a good idea.

Oh. And I thought you did so because you are a disoriented psychopath. Are you sure you are no disoriented psychopath? Because I tend to be right after all in matters regarding the human psyche. That reminds me, I still have to write my journal. I'll do so once this discussion slows down, right now I think I'm needed. You criminals are doomed without me.

Err I mean insane I'm just insane and I will think whatever I want!

Of course you are insane, but don't worry, Doctor Crane knows how to help you. First you have to inhale the gas I'll give you, please take a deep breath...

[JimBee]

Agreed. Heresay and conjecture do not a conviction make. Unless some actual factual evidence against Deadshot appears, I'm going to stick to my guns on the Wesker front.

Um, what more do you need? You're comparing "factual evidence" to a claim. Well then, nothing can be factual evidence because you're trusting in someone's claim that it is, in fact, true.

Hard, factual evidence is not going to just fall out of the sky that you know 100% is true. Baby Doll's confirmation by the Joker is a one time, extremely rare occasion, and even then she could have been converted.

Splitting the vote would be the worst case scenario here, so I'll go with the obvious choice and

Vote: Deadshot/Rumble Strike

[Tamamono]

And that's actually a pretty good idea. Why kill a possible vigilante? If Deadshot's scum, the Ventriloquist is also scum. So if we kill the Ventriloquist and he turns out as criminal, we should propably think aagin about killing Deadshot.

The same goes for Wesker. If he's really a protector, then we certainly don't want to kill him. However, we have to take a chance here. Someone is going to die.

Honestly, I don't see why you people are doubting Deadshot's guilt. Two (two!) day kills happen in the same day, and then Clayface comes forward and says that he copied Deadshot and used his action on Calendar Man. This claim is backed up by Creeper, who is confirmed town because of Catwoman's conviction. This means that Deadshot killed The Riddler, who was the investigator. No vigilante would kill the investigator. That means that Deadshot is the scum day-killer.

[Peanuts]

Two (two!) day kills happen in the same day, and then Clayface comes forward and says that he copied Deadshot and used his action on Calendar Man.

Well, one of them is lying. I have no idea who, though.

This claim is backed up by Creeper, who is confirmed town because of Catwoman's conviction.

Two errors:

1. His roleclaim may be "backed up" by the Creeper, but how would the Creeper know Clayface's role? Either it's because he's got some night action result, which I doubt, or they're both agents, which I doubt, or the Creeper is simply refering to a previous roleclaim Clayface did in private to the Creeper, which I believe and which makes all evidence in this null and void. I'd be happy about a confirmation of one of those abilities, though.

2. The Creeper isn't really confirmed, forgot about possible conversions? I'm not trying to create paranoia, I'm simply remembering you of a fact you seem to be happy to forget.

This means that Deadshot killed The Riddler, who was the investigator. No vigilante would kill the investigator. That means that Deadshot is the scum day-killer.

What means Deadshot killed the Riddler? Because Clayface said so? He can lie! Whoever killed the Riddler is an agent, but how do you know Deadshot killed the Riddler?

[Tamamono]

Two errors:

1. His roleclaim may be "backed up" by the Creeper, but how would the Creeper know Clayface's role? Either it's because he's got some night action result, which I doubt, or they're both agents, which I doubt, or the Creeper is simply refering to a previous roleclaim Clayface did in private to the Creeper, which I believe and which makes all evidence in this null and void. I'd be happy about a confirmation of one of those abilities, though.

I doubt that they're both scum and I doubt that Creeper has some confirmation of Clayface. However, what are the odds that they decide to copy Deadshot and use his action on Calendar Man, but Clayface instead kills Riddler while Deadshot kills their original target (Calendar Man)? That is way too much of a coincidence, and I don't believe in coincidences.

Face it Crane, Deadshot is the scum day-killer. You and Music Meister are standing around saying that it isn't 'strong enough' evidence against Deadshot, when frankly, there isn't much anyone can do but claim things. If someone came forward with an investigation result, would you dismiss them saying that it was 'only a claim'? No, you would follow the investigator's result just like everybody else would, and if it turned out wrong, then you would start entertaining possibilities that the investigator lied.

2. The Creeper isn't really confirmed, forgot about possible conversions? I'm not trying to create paranoia, I'm simply remembering you of a fact you seem to be happy to forget.

Nope, I didn't forget, and I'm not 'happy to forget' it either. In fact, I think it's very likely that the scum will convert Creeper at some point. However, he isn't converted at the moment. The scum can kill or convert during a day/night phase. They killed today (and don't say that a day-kill doesn't count as a kill. It does.), so he wasn't converted on Night 2. He wasn't converted Night 1, either, because since Day 2 he's been on Ventriloquist's case, who almost everyone (including you!) agrees is incredibly scummy. If you think that Creeper has been converted, then you can't suspect Ventriloquist. Use your head!

What means Deadshot killed the Riddler? Because Clayface said so? He can lie! Whoever killed the Riddler is an agent, but how do you know Deadshot killed the Riddler?

I don't know, but it's pretty easy to figure out. If Clayface is scum, why would he use someone else's action on Nygma? Why wouldn't he just use a collective kill? And don't come to me saying the scum don't have a killer. Every scum team has a collective kill (except in a book called Prison Riot, but that was because there were four scum teams).

[Brickdoctor]

I'm not doubting Deadshot's guilt - lynching him is a good way to figure out the allegiances of the other people involved, anyways. I'm just annoyed by the people who keep taking things as certain fact.

It would appear that in all that, I forgot to Vote: Deadshot (Rumble Strike). I am having private conversation in which I'm waiting for some information, though, so that vote is not anywhere close to final.

[Oky]

I just walked in and saw Riddler's and Calendar Man's cold dead bodies lying on the ground. Quite a shock to see that something like this can happen in the middle of the day. Based on the evidence presented, it does seem like it was Deadshot who was the one responsible, and considering his personality, he does seem to be the only one who would be capable of a Day kill. Therefore I'll have to...

Vote: Deadshot (Rumble Strike)

I am not completely convinced that Clayface was indeed an unwilling accomplice in this murder though. Sure, he's not the brightest villain around here, but using an action without knowing how it works? Seems fishy to me.

[Peanuts]

I doubt that they're both scum and I doubt that Creeper has some confirmation of Clayface. However, what are the odds that they decide to copy Deadshot and use his action on Calendar Man, but Clayface instead kills Riddler while Deadshot kills their original target (Calendar Man)? That is way too much of a coincidence, and I don't believe in coincidences.

Face it Crane, Deadshot is the scum day-killer. You and Music Meister are standing around saying that it isn't 'strong enough' evidence against Deadshot, when frankly, there isn't much anyone can do but claim things. If someone came forward with an investigation result, would you dismiss them saying that it was 'only a claim'? No, you would follow the investigator's result just like everybody else would, and if it turned out wrong, then you would start entertaining possibilities that the investigator lied.

If Deadshot is town, this whole thing is no coincidence, it's tactics. And I never said the case wasn't strong enough. I can understand everyone who votes for Deadshot, as his case is strong. I'm just trying to point out flaws.

And I will always consider there's a possibility the claimed investigator lied, even before I get the result of the lynch. I also never 100% believed the Riddler, until he died.

But you're right, I completely forgot, that if this is really a scum plot, the Creeper must be involved, if they planned to copy Deadshot together, targetting Calendar Man. This was never confirmed though, and Creeper said before some of his team were acting like Cowboys not working together. Could the Creeper please confirm it was planned before that Calendar Man would be targeted?

Nope, I didn't forget, and I'm not 'happy to forget' it either. In fact, I think it's very likely that the scum will convert Creeper at some point. However, he isn't converted at the moment. The scum can kill or convert during a day/night phase. They killed today (and don't say that a day-kill doesn't count as a kill. It does.), so he wasn't converted on Night 2. He wasn't converted Night 1, either, because since Day 2 he's been on Ventriloquist's case, who almost everyone (including you!) agrees is incredibly scummy. If you think that Creeper has been converted, then you can't suspect Ventriloquist. Use your head!

Of course a day kill is not much different from a night kill, that would be a pointless argument more fit of some of you others. But this argument of yours is entirely based on the assumption Deadshot is a scum killer, which is an assumtion, even though a likely one. Also, they can have recruited the Creeper on day one, can't they? Use your head!

I don't know, but it's pretty easy to figure out. If Clayface is scum, why would he use someone else's action on Nygma? Why wouldn't he just use a collective kill? And don't come to me saying the scum don't have a killer. Every scum team has a collective kill (except in a book called Prison Riot, but that was because there were four scum teams).

Maybe they were trying to do both killing and recruiting? Because both killing and recruiting is better than only killing, at least for the agents.

[Tamamono]

If Deadshot is town, this whole thing is no coincidence, it's tactics. And I never said the case wasn't strong enough. I can understand everyone who votes for Deadshot, as his case is strong. I'm just trying to point out flaws.

And I will always consider there's a possibility the claimed investigator lied, even before I get the result of the lynch. I also never 100% believed the Riddler, until he died.

I didn't believe Riddler until he died either, and I hope no one else did without actual proof. However, it comes back to what Sionis was saying about the apples. If you have a rotten apple and a soft, bruised apple, which one are you going to eat? In this case, the claim is the soft, bruised apple while the rotten one is any other conviction. While it isn't proven that Deadshot is the scum day-killer, it's very likely, and our best bet for a scum conviction today.

Besides, Clayface would never make a claim like this so early in the game if he were scum. We will convict Deadshot, and if he's town, then Clayface is next.

Of course a day kill is not much different from a night kill, that would be a pointless argument more fit of some of you others. But this argument of yours is entirely based on the assumption Deadshot is a scum killer, which is an assumtion, even though a likely one. Also, they can have recruited the Creeper on day one, can't they? Use your head!

I already said why they couldn't have. He has been on Ventriloquist's case since he first spoke up on Day 2. Almost everyone agrees that Ventriloquist is scummy. It would be hypocritical for them to suspect both Creeper and Ventriloquist.

And the possibility of Day conversions is slightly more likely now that we've seen a day kill, but if the scum converted Creeper on Day 1, then he wouldn't have pushed everyone to vote for Catwoman.

Maybe they were trying to do both killing and recruiting? Because both killing and recruiting is better than only killing, at least for the agents.

I admit, that possibility hadn't occurred to me. Good thinking.

[Peanuts]

Besides, Clayface would never make a claim like this so early in the game if he were scum. We will convict Deadshot, and if he's town, then Clayface is next.

That's a good point indeed.

I already said why they couldn't have. He has been on Ventriloquist's case since he first spoke up on Day 2. Almost everyone agrees that Ventriloquist is scummy. It would be hypocritical for them to suspect both Creeper and Ventriloquist.

Of course the Creeper wouldn't change his opinion about the Ventriloquist after he's been converted, that would only make his conversion obvious. I'm not saying he was converted, though. I don't think he was, and if he says Clayface told him he'd copy Deadshot's ability at Calendar Man, I'll vote for Deadshot immediately.

And the possibility of Day conversions is slightly more likely now that we've seen a day kill, but if the scum converted Creeper on Day 1, then he wouldn't have pushed everyone to vote for Catwoman.

Excuse me, I meant night one. I'm sorry for that (no sarcasm) and I hope you bear in mind it might happen again, that I say day while I mean night, especially with night actions.

[Tamamono]

Of course the Creeper wouldn't change his opinion about the Ventriloquist after he's been converted, that would only make his conversion obvious. I'm not saying he was converted, though. I don't think he was, and if he says Clayface told him he'd copy Deadshot's ability at Calendar Man, I'll vote for Deadshot immediately.

But he hadn't expressed any opinion against Ventriloquist until Day 2! If he had been converted on Night 1, then he wouldn't have accused Ventriloquist.

Excuse me, I meant night one. I'm sorry for that (no sarcasm) and I hope you bear in mind it might happen again, that I say day while I mean night, especially with night actions.

Not a problem; it happens to me sometimes as well.

Bear in mind that I'm not arguing with you because I'm completely sure that Deadshot is scum. I think Deadshot is scum, and I'm pretty sure that he's our best bet for a scum conviction today.

[Scorpiox]

I Vote: Deadshot (Rumble Strike), because of what happened with Clayface. Oh and good thinking Egg and Crane, the town needs more like you.

If Deadshot is scum, then Wesker probably is as well. He was trying to protect his scum buddy.

[Fred Fred Burger]

Damn it! How could Bane have been town!? And a more important question: was he really the doctor? If he was, then why was there no scum kill last night? Could they have targeted Nygma on Night 1 and then converted tonight?

I'm very sorry to the late Bane and to the rest of the town for pushing for his conviction so hard. It appears my scumdar isn't getting any better.

While it's great that Ra's has returned to the world of the living, his re-animation definitely reminds me of the Vampire role. Care to explain why exactly you were brought back to life, Ra's?

(Sorry about that.)

Well I suppose Honesty is the only real option.

My resurrection is as a result of the Lazarus pits and is indeed my own doing.

[Peanuts]

But he hadn't expressed any opinion against Ventriloquist until Day 2! If he had been converted on Night 1, then he wouldn't have accused Ventriloquist.

I admit, he being converted on night 1 and Ventriloquist being an agent don't go with each other. But as I said before, this is only based on the assumption Deadshot is a scum killer. If he is, we can safely assume Wesker is an agent and the Creeper hasn't been converted so far.

If he isn't, we can safely assume Clayface is an agent.

For that reason, I'll vote: Deadshot (Rumble Strike). I might change my mind once we hear from the Creeper, the Ventriloquist, Deadshot or somebody else who can add something conclusive or convincing or somehwo forthbringing to this matter.

Bear in mind that I'm not arguing with you because I'm completely sure that Deadshot is scum. I think Deadshot is scum, and I'm pretty sure that he's our best bet for a scum conviction today.

Of course, none of us can be sure about anything. I'm not convinced either. But it's important that we think, dispute and point out evidence or flaws, just like we do, instead of simply saying "A has a good case against B, so I'm voting for B."

What the heck are you talking about? What did who find out before he knew they found out?

Who is this "WE" you speak of? Your scum team??

How could you find out something before the other person found out you found out?

Oops I just confused myself again... Or, in actuality you did.

But, who is this "WE"?? I want to know!

Also where is Ra's, why hasn't he appeared and spoken yet?

Has anyone realized Mad Hatter has never answered this, albeit being asked twice? Now that's what I call an unhelpful criminal...or an agent.

[Brickdoctor]

My resurrection is as a result of the Lazarus pits and is indeed my own doing.

Okay...

The real debate is whether you have returned as Town, Scum, or Neutral.

Has anyone realized Mad Hatter has never answered this, albeit being asked twice? Now that's what I call an unhelpful criminal...or an agent.

I suggest we just ignore him. I'm convinced he's a Townie sheep of the most annoying kind.

[Jedi master Brick]

Ok, I will set things straight. My night action is to find out other people's night action. Last night I checked out clayface and before the latest deaths I already told the Riddler and the Creeper. Ok?

[def]

Wait, I know Creeper has been pretty good for the Town so far, and I can certainly understand where he is coming from, but are we all just gonna believe what Clayface says? There's no proof that he is town, and he hasn't been very vocal in the last 3 days. I'm not saying his copying ability is suspect, just his allegiance.

As we can tell, our abilities are based on our characters, and I know me being the best assassin in Gotham City isn't helping my case about now. There's not much I can do about that, but I am certainly no Scum. I am a vigilante, and I targeted Calendar Man because he, like some others, have not been speaking much or helping the Town cause. I am kind of surprised it actually worked, because it has failed every time so far. I can't help that our investigator died also, that's Clayface's deal.

Sorry, Deadshot, but Clayface told me he had targeted you and then Calendar Man hours before the deaths. You come out after, and claim it was you who had targeted Calendar Man. Nope. Not buying it. There is no way that Clayface would have known to take credit for that death.

Vote: Deadshot (Rumblestrike)

Well, one of them is lying. I have no idea who, though.

Deadshot. See above

Two errors:

1. His roleclaim may be "backed up" by the Creeper, but how would the Creeper know Clayface's role? Either it's because he's got some night action result, which I doubt, or they're both agents, which I doubt, or the Creeper is simply refering to a previous roleclaim Clayface did in private to the Creeper, which I believe and which makes all evidence in this null and void. I'd be happy about a confirmation of one of those abilities, though.

Yes, Clayface told me all about it, in a confusing way, in private, over the last two days. It was vague at first, but as he started to look scummier, he shared more, and now I'm leaning toward the notion he's town.

2. The Creeper isn't really confirmed, forgot about possible conversions? I'm not trying to create paranoia, I'm simply remembering you of a fact you seem to be happy to forget.

It's true!

What means Deadshot killed the Riddler? Because Clayface said so? He can lie! Whoever killed the Riddler is an agent, but how do you know Deadshot killed the Riddler?

See above. Also, logic tells us that the person making public claims first is much more likely to be the one telling the truth. Deadshot was never going to admit to killing anyone (not even privately!), but then admitted it when his life was on the line... at which point he tries to claim Calendar Man :roflmao:

Too little, too late.

Should have killed me earlier Deadshot, now I've cooked your goose.

And the Ventriloquist is next, then Simon the Pieman, then Two-Face....

Ok, I will set things straight. My night action is to find out other people's night action. Last night I checked out clayface and before the latest deaths I already told the Riddler and the Creeper. Ok?

Now why would you say that? Nobody's voting for you. Just relax, man, have some tea.

[Peanuts]

Sorry, Deadshot, but Clayface told me he had targeted you and then Calendar Man hours before the deaths. You come out after, and claim it was you who had targeted Calendar Man. Nope. Not buying it. There is no way that Clayface would have known to take credit for that death.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear. I've already voted for Deadshot, but if I hadn't I'd do so right now.

Oh, and I'm still wondering: Why didn't Clayface copy the action of the Riddler? In retroperspective it's good he didn't, but why not?

[Brickdoctor]

Ok, I will set things straight. My night action is to find out other people's night action. Last night I checked out clayface and before the latest deaths I already told the Riddler and the Creeper. Ok?

Thank you for giving that information to the Scum without any real reason.

We would have trusted the Creeper without you saying that. You could've remained the anonymous source.

Oh, right! Ignoring...

[Peanuts]

Thank you for giving that information to the Scum without any real reason.

We would have trusted the Creeper without you saying that. You could've remained the anonymous source.

Oh, right! Ignoring...

Actually, he shouldn't have given the hint in the first place, so I wouldn't have bothered him. But of course, revealing his night action was stupid as well.

I had already voted for Deadshot, and I think the Creeper confirming Clayface has settled it, as Deadshot being a criminal equals Clayface and Creeper being agents, which would be a disproportional sacrifice for the agents.

[Tamamono]

Well I suppose Honesty is the only real option.

My resurrection is as a result of the Lazarus pits and is indeed my own doing.

I think everyone pretty much figured that out. Could you tell us a bit more?

Ok, I will set things straight. My night action is to find out other people's night action. Last night I checked out clayface and before the latest deaths I already told the Riddler and the Creeper. Ok?

You didn't need to give that away. No one was voting for you. Crane was just asking you one little question.

At least this will show Music Meister that there is real evidence.

[Capt. Redblade]

If the Joker's still around here, I'd like to see a vote tally so we know where we stand.

Deadshot's looking like the best choice today, but I'm going to keep my vote on Gepetto and Pinocchio Scarface and the Ventriloquist. Somebody has to put the screws to the other suspects.

[Professor Flitwick]

Vote: Deadshot (Rumble Strike). Our protection action wuz redirected to ya, so ya eitha caught in da cross fire, or, more likely, 'n undacova agent.

For that reason, I'll vote: Deadshot (Rumble Strike). I might change my mind once we hear from the Creeper, the Ventriloquist, Deadshot or somebody else who can add something conclusive or convincing or somehwo forthbringing to this matter.

We've already explained our case, and offered to explain any other quires you all might have. For some reason, other things get dragged into our tale, such as Killer Croc, or blocking, making the whole thing quite convoluted. I'm not sure if I can say/do anything more conclusive than what Clayface has done.

Deadshot's looking like the best choice today, but I'm going to keep my vote on Gepetto and Pinocchio Scarface and the Ventriloquist. Somebody has to put the screws to the other suspects.

Word 'a warnin'. If ya gonna put sumbuddy unda a presha test, den ya betta not tell 'em; da results would be invalid, as dey'd know dat is jus' a test.