Brickdoctor Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 A scum/undercover agent coul easily fake investigation resuls or make a false claim. Yes, he could, but that's a risk that presents itself with any investigator. There's no such thing as a confirmed Townie until the situation is over. Even Baby Doll could have been converted, and the dead Townies could actually have been Scum reported as Townies. (not that I expect such a thing to have happened; just pointing out the possibility to support my point) However, my claimed investigation results have contradicted no one and have all been Townie results, except for a Scum result on Baby Doll that I know is probably false. In addition, if I was Scum trying to get Baby Doll killed with a false result, there would be no reason for me to reveal that result only to Baby Doll herself.
Sirius Black Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 As has been said before, no townie would have immunity to investigation. I've read about it happening before with a commuter in a book called Baritones 3, but that was a known hindrance, and not an unknown one, as Black Mask claims. Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor) While it is highly suspicious that you are univestigatable, I would say the primary reason that I am voting for you is simply because almost everyone else is semi-confirmed as a criminal at this point, either based on rooting out agents, or investigation results. Let's hope that we'll be done with this by tomorrow.
Jedi master Brick Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 The fact our investigator has not got a result on him is highly sucspious so I Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor)
def Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Yes, he could, but that's a risk that presents itself with any investigator. There's no such thing as a confirmed Townie until the situation is over. Even Baby Doll could have been converted, and the dead Townies could actually have been Scum reported as Townies. (not that I expect such a thing to have happened; just pointing out the possibility to support my point) However, my claimed investigation results have contradicted no one and have all been Townie results, except for a Scum result on Baby Doll that I know is probably false. In addition, if I was Scum trying to get Baby Doll killed with a false result, there would be no reason for me to reveal that result only to Baby Doll herself. This is true, there is some things about your story that are believable. Claiming she was scum was a strange way to get her trust. It's possible that you were hoping she might consider you an insane investigator early on, and lynch one townie to test that theory though. You have been "helpful", which you say was showing you're town, but consider what happened to all the scum who were unhelpful Your "helpfulness" has kept you alive and out of the spotlight a good number of days, so it would have been a successful scum strategy. Lastly, we had a protector, Bane. The Ventriloquist claimed to be another protector, and he was scum. We have a blocker. The Pieman claimed to be another blocker, and he was scum. The Riddler was our investigator, and you claim to be another investigator... It's all circumstantial, but that combined with your inability to be investigated yourself, which you have no idea about, means you have a cloud of suspicion over you. Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor)
Brickdoctor Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 This is true, there is some things about your story that are believable. Claiming she was scum was a strange way to get her trust. It's possible that you were hoping she might consider you an insane investigator early on, and lynch one townie to test that theory though. I brought forth nothing but the truth. Besides, if I was Scum and were to risk myself just to lynch one Townie, I would be a pretty stupid Scum. I would only be able to pull that off once, and then I would have to find another way to get Townies lynched and give Baby Doll results at the same time. There's no way the Scum can win if they lose one of their own for every Townie they cause to be lynched. Maybe if I was Scum one or two kills away from victory, but not on Day 2. You have been "helpful", which you say was showing you're town, but consider what happened to all the scum who were unhelpful Your "helpfulness" has kept you alive and out of the spotlight a good number of days, so it would have been a successful scum strategy. Any Townie action can be interpreted as a Scum faking a Townie behavior. Everyone's going to try to look or be helpful, whether they're Scum or Town. (well, except for the sheep) Lastly, we had a protector, Bane. The Ventriloquist claimed to be another protector, and he was scum. We have a blocker. The Pieman claimed to be another blocker, and he was scum. The Riddler was our investigator, and you claim to be another investigator... Baby Doll has told me on many occasions that you knew of another investigator other than the Riddler. I'm clearly not the only one claiming to be 'another investigator'.
JimBee Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Vote: Black Mask/Brickdoctor And, as for my secret that Babydoll thinks I'm afraid of releasing, well, of course not on day seven I'm... wait for it... Independent! I have actually never claimed criminal in this game yet. I simply said I wasn't an agent. I think my role here was to mess you people's heads, I have a janitor role of sorts, but I never used it. I can also be unkillable at night, so I just made myself a lightning pole for town and hopefully wasted some of the scum night kills. I actually forget my win condition, but I just have to stay alive. If you guys want to lynch me for that, well, I wouldn't be surprised, actually [/color] So, if you never used your janitor action, how do you know you were blocked?
XimenaPaulina Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I remembered a classic movie called Bloodbrick II, and a character named Dr. Bethany Bovary was put in an eerily similar situation as Black Mask is in now - on the lynch chopping block after almost a week of staying out of suspicion, with only a weak case based on circumstantial evidence against her, the townies voted for her and she turned out to be as one of their own. I really hope you're the final agent Mask, as I don't want to feel the same regret that K-Girl felt in that movie. Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor)
Brickdoctor Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I remembered a classic movie called Bloodbrick II, and a character named Dr. Bethany Bovary was put in an eerily similar situation as Black Mask is in now - on the lynch chopping block after almost a week of staying out of suspicion, with only a weak case based on circumstantial evidence against her, the townies voted for her and she turned out to be as one of their own. I really hope you're the final agent Mask, as I don't want to feel the same regret that K-Girl felt in that movie. I remember that movie, too, and, speaking from experience from past situations of my own, I know that that Dr. Bovary was a lot like the very sheep I have been annoyed by during this situation, so I can understand why she was lynched. She wasn't helpful at all and repeatedly made statements saying that "Person X could be Town, or he could be Scum," making herself look helpful and active but in reality just being overall sheepish. I'm probably not exactly qualified to assess my own behavior in this situation, but I feel that I have not exhibited the flaws that Dr. Bovary did which led to her lynching. Dr. Bovary stayed out of suspicion because the Townies had other things to worry about and the Scum regarded her as useless. The Creeper himself has said that I haven't been useless during this situation.
Capt. Redblade Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Just to mix it up: Vote: Poison Ivy/badboytje88
def Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I brought forth nothing but the truth. Besides, if I was Scum and were to risk myself just to lynch one Townie, I would be a pretty stupid Scum. I would only be able to pull that off once, and then I would have to find another way to get Townies lynched and give Baby Doll results at the same time. There's no way the Scum can win if they lose one of their own for every Townie they cause to be lynched. Maybe if I was Scum one or two kills away from victory, but not on Day 2. I didn't say you were risking yourself to lynch a townie. You'll have to show me where I did. Any Townie action can be interpreted as a Scum faking a Townie behavior. Everyone's going to try to look or be helpful, whether they're Scum or Town. (well, except for the sheep) Baby Doll has told me on many occasions that you knew of another investigator other than the Riddler. I'm clearly not the only one claiming to be 'another investigator'. The other investigators are using Riddler's ability from beyond the grave. Crazy, but it's true, and has been verified unless they were both lying, and chose to sacrifice Zsasz for their cause. Therefore, you are the only other one claiming to be an investigator. As for the other townies, they have either contributed to convicting/killing scum, or were cleared. You have been neither. Only you. I think it's plausible that you are town, but you are the only uncleared one, so I'd be stupid not to vote you out before the others. So, if you never used your janitor action, how do you know you were blocked? I said I was blocked? You'll have to show me when I said that. Has Hush been drinking again?
Brickdoctor Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I didn't say you were risking yourself to lynch a townie. You'll have to show me where I did. You're hypothesized that I could be Scum who had claimed a Scum result on Baby Doll to Baby Doll to gain her trust and make her lynch Townies to test my sanity. Obviously, I'd only be able to pull that off once before she figured out that I wasn't getting the right results, but that would then call attention to me and could be used against me at a later time, so in the grand scheme of things, if I was Scum trying to do that, I'd be risking my life to get one (or maybe two if I was lucky) Townie(s) lynched, which statistically is a very poor move as early as Day 2. The other investigators are using Riddler's ability from beyond the grave. Crazy, but it's true, and has been verified unless they were both lying, and chose to sacrifice Zsasz for their cause. You mean to say that not one, but two (or more) people have the ability to take another's ability after they die? I know it's possible, but it doesn't seem plausible to me.
WhiteFang Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I believed Baby Doll and The Creep has summarisd it well. But personally, I find it very hard to accept the fact that there is a possibility of a 3rd faction. If so, this is going to complicate things. For now, my vote goes to, Vote: Black Mask (Brickdoctor)
Oky Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Ugh. Busy day at the lab today. I am so close to a cure, I can almost feel it! Or at least I could if I still had feelings. Anyway, looks like I didn't miss much. There are no new leads, and Black Mask is still having a hard time defending himself. The only really notable thing is that the Creeper has claimed independent. That does make it tempting to lynch him, despite all the good things he's done for us Criminals, especially if his win condition is to stay alive. And he suggested it himself after all. Therefore, since I believe Black Mask and don't think there is a point in lynching Ivy, I have no choice but to... Vote: The Creeper (def) I'll probably get a lot of crap for this, but it seems the most logical choice for me right now. If anyone has a very good reason why we shouldn't kill the Creep, I'm open for suggestions. Sorry, Creeper, it's nothing personal, just business. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the lab...
Brickdoctor Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 and Black Mask is still having a hard time defending himself... ...Therefore, since I believe Black Mask Huh? What exactly are you trying to say? That I can't really defend myself, but you believe me anyways? And why do you think I'm having a hard time defending myself? All I have to do is tell the truth and make logical responses. It couldn't be easier and simpler.
XimenaPaulina Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Vote: The Creeper (def) Wuh?!? I don't see your logic here Freeze-boy. The Criminals win condition is to eliminate ALL Undercover Agents, and NOT independents. Why lynch someone who claims he's independent, someone who has greatly helped us in weeding all out of the scum agents, and someone who has no trace of being a scum agent? I think you're losing focus with our goal, or maybe you just aren't one of us?
def Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Ugh. Busy day at the lab today. I am so close to a cure, I can almost feel it! Or at least I could if I still had feelings. Anyway, looks like I didn't miss much. There are no new leads, and Black Mask is still having a hard time defending himself. The only really notable thing is that the Creeper has claimed independent. That does make it tempting to lynch him, despite all the good things he's done for us Criminals, especially if his win condition is to stay alive. And he suggested it himself after all. Therefore, since I believe Black Mask and don't think there is a point in lynching Ivy, I have no choice but to... Vote: The Creeper (def) I'll probably get a lot of crap for this, but it seems the most logical choice for me right now. If anyone has a very good reason why we shouldn't kill the Creep, I'm open for suggestions. Sorry, Creeper, it's nothing personal, just business. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the lab... And this is why Mafia School was invented. You don't follow the day thread, you don't know what an investigator is, you think the best course of action is voting me out. Whatever. The reason you'll get crap for it, if you get any, is because it's a clueless move to make. I'll leave it at that, since this is just a game, and I don't think you're scum. You think the guy who organized all six scum being taken out of the game is the logical choice Wuh?!? I don't see your logic here Freeze-boy. The Criminals win condition is to eliminate ALL Undercover Agents, and NOT independents. Why lynch someone who claims he's independent, someone who has greatly helped us in weeding all out of the scum agents, and someone who has no trace of being a scum agent? I think you're losing focus with our goal, or maybe you just aren't one of us? As I said, I don't think he's scum. He's been way too clueless from day one to be scum... His scummates wouldn't allow it. Though he hasn't had an investigation yet, that I can remember off of the top of my head
Oky Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 What exactly are you trying to say? That I can't really defend myself, but you believe me anyways? And why do you think I'm having a hard time defending myself? All I have to do is tell the truth and make logical responses. It couldn't be easier and simpler. Yes, that's basically what I'm saying, because almost everyone is voting for you. I don't see your logic here Freeze-boy. The Criminals win condition is to eliminate ALL Undercover Agents, and NOT independents. Why lynch someone who claims he's independent, someone who has greatly helped us in weeding all out of the scum agents, and someone who has no trace of being a scum agent? I think you're losing focus with our goal, or maybe you just aren't one of us? Because if he wins, the town might loose, similar to Ivy's case. Also, from what he has told us, he seems to share some traits with what I have read about serial killers. Now, I don't think he is one of course; my point is that I just don't completely trust him. Why would he support the town so much if has his own conditions for winning? And I wouldn't be so bold to make such a sketchy move if I weren't one of you. The Creeper might be right when he says I'm clueless, but I'm not stupid. All I want is for us criminals to come out victorious out of this ordeal, so if I am indeed mistaken and somebody can make me see that, I will gladly change my vote.
def Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Because if he wins, the town might loose, similar to Ivy's case. Also, from what he has told us, he seems to share some traits with what I have read about serial killers. Now, I don't think he is one of course; my point is that I just don't completely trust him. Why would he support the town so much if has his own conditions for winning? How is it that the town might "loose" if I win? What trait do I have in common with serial killers, since you've apparently been reading?... I'll start by answering your question. I support the town because I'd be totally bored if I just sat around watching town kill each other. And I'm more likely to survive by working with town, since only a moron would vote out someone catching scum, and my general assumption in a situation like this is that the majority of the people here aren't morons. Plus, I get a lot of cooperation from the town since I'm working hard. Compare that to me just sitting around trying not to get investigated, then getting investigated, and having to explain myself without having done anything for the town. Which of those strategies would be more successful? You have a 50/50 chance of getting that question right, but I think you'll get it wrong After all, you think, and I quote, "Because if he wins, the town might loose, similar to Ivy's case." Despite an hour earlier, saying that, and I quote, "(I) don't think there is a point in lynching Ivy"... You think Ivy wins by everybody losing, and that she isn't a threat, and that I win that way too, but, I am a threat, even though I was a key participant in every scum conviction and scum night kill. Holy megabluck, that makes no sense at all. And I wouldn't be so bold to make such a sketchy move if I weren't one of you. The Creeper might be right when he says I'm clueless, but I'm not stupid. All I want is for us criminals to come out victorious out of this ordeal, so if I am indeed mistaken and somebody can make me see that, I will gladly change my vote. Don't change your vote. It will be a monument to your bad strategy after the game. The point: It doesn't bother me that I have a vote. I think it's highly unlikely that I'll be voted out. What bothers me is the utter bollocks that you think is logic making you do it. This is the uphill climb I've been against since day one. But then again, I have used logic to help nab six scumbags, and your logic is trying to catch me <Important point bolded so I don't have to explain about it later>
XimenaPaulina Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Because if he wins, the town might loose, similar to Ivy's case. Also, from what he has told us, he seems to share some traits with what I have read about serial killers. Now, I don't think he is one of course; my point is that I just don't completely trust him. Why would he support the town so much if has his own conditions for winning? Why are you even bothered by the win conditions of the Independents when we, the Criminals, are VERY close to reaching our goal (if Black Mask do turn out to be the last of the Scum Agents) at this point? All I know is WE CONTROL our own destiny as the majority here, unlike the Independents who most likely have to "depend" on siding with us for them to reach their individual goals. I understand if you are concerned about any hidden motives that they may have, believe me I am too (i.e. Ivy's possible planted seeds still concerns me), but we have the power to render them helpless until we reach our ultimate goal. Again I would reiterate, the Criminals' mission is to eliminate all Undercover Agents, and as long as the Independents don't mess with us along the way, they're in for a shared victory with us. Chill out man.
JimBee Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I said I was blocked? You'll have to show me when I said that. Has Hush been drinking again? No. Actually, I made a mistake, you never did say that but you did say this: Well, there's good news and bad news... The good news is this: I'm still alive Some scum bums tried to do something last night, be it use a fear canister or simply redirect me... Who knows. Anyway, I'm still here. (You know who could have done that? Hush How do you know you were redirected/whatever happened? You don't even know what they actually did to you. I'm just curious is all, if you didn't perform a night action.
def Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 No. Actually, I made a mistake, you never did say that but you did say this: How do you know you were redirected/whatever happened? You don't even know what they actually did to you. I'm just curious is all, if you didn't perform a night action. Because, I didn't target Black Mask, but then I was told that I did. That is redirecting. And it wasn't Two-Face, since he makes you target yourself. And I doubt it was the Fear Gas, since it would just be too coincidental that the person I targeted was the guy being aimed for a take down... The plot thickens...
Tamamono Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Ugh. Busy day at the lab today. I am so close to a cure, I can almost feel it! Or at least I could if I still had feelings. Anyway, looks like I didn't miss much. There are no new leads, and Black Mask is still having a hard time defending himself. The only really notable thing is that the Creeper has claimed independent. That does make it tempting to lynch him, despite all the good things he's done for us Criminals, especially if his win condition is to stay alive. And he suggested it himself after all. Therefore, since I believe Black Mask and don't think there is a point in lynching Ivy, I have no choice but to... Vote: The Creeper (def) I'll probably get a lot of crap for this, but it seems the most logical choice for me right now. If anyone has a very good reason why we shouldn't kill the Creep, I'm open for suggestions. Sorry, Creeper, it's nothing personal, just business. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the lab... I don't think you quite understand the role of independent (although you didn't understand investigator either ). Creeps is an independent, so he wins if he survives to the end, no matter what happens. He can win if we win, and he can win if the scum win. All he needs to do is survive. Now, normally, we would be quite wary of having an independent survivor around, because that person can turn on the town at any point. However, there's probably only one or two scum left, so the chance of him turning on us now is almost zero. In addition, Creeps has gone out of his way to organize the town and he is responsible for the deaths of 6 agents/scum. He has gone above and beyond what even most townies are willing to do in these game. And you repay this by trying to get him lynched. Unbelievable, just unbelievable.
XimenaPaulina Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 The plot thickens... Hmmm, indeed it does... Even when it seems we're nearing the end of this turmoil we still have to work our megablocks to figure out what happened in Creep's redirection last night. Let me think aloud the possibilities: 1. Assuming Black Mask is the last agent, this may very well be his last attempt to make himself look like a Criminal, hoping an elaborate "reverse-psychology" move by redirecting Creeps to himself will give him the alibi of "if I'm scum then it would be stupid on my part to incriminate myself by redirecting someone against me". He has three things going for him: - He already knows he will be the target of today's lynch since yesterday, so he came prepared; - He knows Creeps is the vocal town leader, and he anticipates that any action that disrupts him will most likely be publicized in the game thread Ice Berg Lounge (like when Ivy planted a seed on him the other day against his will); - By redirecting Creeps to himself he hopes to convince us with this reverse psychology alibi 2. The more alarming possibility but doesn't make sense: Black Mask isn't scum and the last of the agents did this, but what would the last scum gain by redirecting Creeps to the next day's most probable lynch? 3. Knowing that Black Mask is most likely the last of the scum, this might have been the work of an uncooperative Criminal who took it upon himself to take matter in his own hands and tried to redirect Creeps (thinking he's the Vig/SK) to Black Mask hoping to kill him and end this mission right away. 4. Or it could've been the work of a Fear Gas holder, no matter how unpredictable the results may be it would still wreak havoc on the town's side when used by scum. As far as I know the only people that the late Scarecrow had talked to before his death is me, Black Mask, and Two-Face. I still have my Fear Gas canister with me, and it's possible that the Scarecrow gave one to either Black Mask or Two-Face or to even both of them and they used it? Well if there's anyone here who could somehow gauge the honesty of other people, it's Creeps, who has conversed with almost everyone of us privately (except Black Mask). But I sincerely hope that Black Mask is the last agent and all of these drama will be all over by tomorrow...
TheBoyWonder Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Good theories. The fact that Creeps is independent is surprising, but he is not a threat. Mr Freeze has not been investigated , but I do feel he is not scum.
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