Faefrost Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 But in ´80 and ´90 Lego was primary a building toy... My both parents are M.D. and my first LEGO was a 6364 Paramedics Unit. Later i prefer a Police and Firefighter theme,castles and pirates. But still was lego a relative non -conflict toy... And stimulated my interest of history... Lion Kings-czech kings, "Eagle" (Black Falcons) - german knights...etc..., pirates (red coat-englishs blue coat - frenchmans) - but still was here a peacefully space, living city, creative basic and technic, or cute Fabuland. Every boy read a adventure books, with pirates, cowboys and indians, knights and every boy can a Robin Hood (Forestman) story... Still was it a part of collective memory of humankind and part of western culture... (R.L. Stevenson Treasure Island). This is an adventure - sea adventure, medieval adventure, space adventure... a personal desire to discover of every child... When i was a pre-scholar kid i use a part of round cheese box as "royal crown", i have a plastic sabre (not sword) and still crying - "Heeah, i was a prince !" I was a prince from fairy tails who rescue sleeping Beauty from it´s castle behind rose jungle... and maybe slaught a dragon ! And my biggest dream was a pirate ship and castle... (From Lego - naturally). I like a Space Police too, with their gorgeuous spaceships with prison pods... for Blacktron bad guys... But - and still - is LEGO a peacefuly. Today it´s not a primary a building toy, it´s a action toy. Where is my "city clinics" ? Where is a rescue theme ? Why is here a still war and ugly minifigs ? Yes, world is about conflicts, many conflicts but for kids may be a "idylic, peaceful and little didactics". In Vikings thema a decade ago were a monsters from scandinavian myths and legends, in CMF are mythic creature from ancient Greece and great figures from history (Caesar, Cleopatra, Shakesphere, Washington, Lincoln...)this can give a positive interest for school childerns... Why TLC don´t make an anthic theme ? Why make a Chima or Ninjago ? Yes, i´m fan of Batman, Ninja Turtles, Indiana Jones, but i´am AFOL... For me are this theme a parts of my life... and little nostalgic... (Most nostalgic are Ghostbusters...) But why ugly Chima with scary spiders and scorpions ? (Many peoples hates spiders...) Ninjago with undeads and snake demons.... I´m not pacifist, but for me is really in today TLC catalog too many "warriors themes". (But yes, many are probably made especialy for AFOL community (LOTR, many SW sets..etc.) And sets are primary "action" and not used for builders... When is controversy in "real war theme" why aren´t controversy with may scary and horror sets ? Many people around the world are bitten by spiders and snakes or killed by crocodiles - and we have here a Chima... And agents ? This isn´t a James Bond theme,war isn´t OK, but secret services, espionage and deadly agents are OK.... I can´t wait for Benny Spaceship and Exo-Suit - back to ´80, back to early childhood, back to space theme with exploration of distance planets... And yes, aircrafts and military styled vehicles from Lego are ugly, aircrafts are round and from LEGO looks often ugly... What you can reproduces a elegant shapes of Spitfire ? It isn't so much a desire to not have conflict or violence. Lego has never had an issue with historical or fantasy depictions. It has always only been specifically modern (20th - 21st century ) warfare. Case in point you mention Castle and Pirates from the 80's and 90's. Pirates was actually a last minute decision. The actual theme as planned out was Europa. A Napoleanic theme. Soldiers and Cannon, etc. in fact they were so far along that a number of new parts were created for it. But at the last minute in play testing the kids so preferred the Pirate stuff to the soldiers that the theme was changed. And thus Pirates. War but for the playful whims of the children. We tend to over analyze this from both ends. Some cannot understand Lego prohibition to modern warfare. Warfare that those playing with their toys may experience. Others have this overly romanticized and idyllic picture of the peaceful Lego of the past. Lego is not pacifist in that they seek to minimize conflict. In fact they have said many many times that they recognize that conflict play is both integral and critical to how boys play. They just don't want it to be conflict that can show up in their neighborhood tomorrow.
ummester Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 It all feels a bit hypocritical to me. TLG have a very 'fuzzy' line in the sand with this, which is why this discussion can go on for so long.
Itaria No Shintaku Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 Analyzing the posts this I see: The ones open to a military theme find that TLG is hypocritical as they see connections between previous conflict-involved themes and an actual military theme. The ones who would not want it to be released find that TLG is pretty following their line without major steerings. In the end, the whole topic is useless. A poll would have been more effective to understand which is the global preference on this topic, as it's obvious that the pro and the con are backuping with the same opinions on and on and there is no meeting point. After all, TLG isn't making any Military theme, we all know, and if they make it, they won't do it after this post. :D
Dewey Cheatum 1011 Western Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 If you need weapons, go on Brickarms.
jodawill Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Here's something to think about. WWI is now as far back in time as the western time period was when Wild West was released.
DPrime Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Here's something to think about. WWI is now as far back in time as the western time period was when Wild West was released. Indeed. And perhaps a WWI Doughboy, or a German soldier (with spikey helmet!) MAY be charming/harmless enough to be released as a CMF. MAYBE. Perhaps a Red Baron figure might be more realistic. But while there are some pretty infamous atrocities associated with the Wild West, nothing from that time period was recorded like the First World War. The images from that conflict have impressed subsequent generations with much greater impact than anything before. World War II even more so (and Vietnam, at least for Americans, much more so). I think that's the real difference. Faefrost, thanks for providing the info on "Europa". What a grand theme that would have been! I would absolutely love to recreate a British square or thin red line...
jodawill Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Indeed. And perhaps a WWI Doughboy, or a German soldier (with spikey helmet!) MAY be charming/harmless enough to be released as a CMF. MAYBE. Perhaps a Red Baron figure might be more realistic. But while there are some pretty infamous atrocities associated with the Wild West, nothing from that time period was recorded like the First World War. The images from that conflict have impressed subsequent generations with much greater impact than anything before. World War II even more so (and Vietnam, at least for Americans, much more so). I think that's the real difference. Faefrost, thanks for providing the info on "Europa". What a grand theme that would have been! I would absolutely love to recreate a British square or thin red line... Yeah, and the uniforms and weapons haven't changed significantly since WWI (at least as far as Lego detail goes), so a WWI theme wouldn't be much different from a WWII or Vietnam theme.
2maxwell Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Faefrost, thanks for providing the info on "Europa". What a grand theme that would have been! I would absolutely love to recreate a British square or thin red line... Between the Pirates, PotC, and CMFc lines, you still can.
DPrime Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Between the Pirates, PotC, and CMFc lines, you still can. I was thinking that could probably be the case as I wrote that, but there is something special about "official" sets... I used to work at Fort Henry in Kingston, Ontario while I was a student, and I've always wanted to recreate the good ol' east battery (three 24-pounders, a 12-pounder carronnade and a mortar) in Lego form. :)
2maxwell Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I was thinking that could probably be the case as I wrote that, but there is something special about "official" sets... I used to work at Fort Henry in Kingston, Ontario while I was a student, and I've always wanted to recreate the good ol' east battery (three 24-pounders, a 12-pounder carronnade and a mortar) in Lego form. :) In that case, you should check out the Pirates subforum (if you haven't already)! The builders over there focus on pretty much everything from the 1600s to the mid 1800s.
SMC Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 You can now vote on this and much more http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=98013
Herky Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I find it kind of funny that Itaria keeps weighing in on this topic, yet has what looks like a warrior in the avatar and a British military "beefeater" head below the demo info...in addition to having a tagline about dispensing indiscriminate justice...kind of hypocritical to his/her pacifist statements, but I have to agree with him/her on the point about the poll. Thanks SMC for posting the link to vote on the info...still for a military line myself, but satisfying my crave with the old stuff I can pick up and potc cannons and the like. I have found you can do some really cool naval things with what we have been given from TLG.
DPrime Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah, and the uniforms and weapons haven't changed significantly since WWI (at least as far as Lego detail goes), so a WWI theme wouldn't be much different from a WWII or Vietnam theme. Probably, but it just occurred to me that they at least have funny hats. That MAY be their saving grace. :) In that case, you should check out the Pirates subforum (if you haven't already)! The builders over there focus on pretty much everything from the 1600s to the mid 1800s. I do from time to time but I think I will more in the future! I do have a real need to pick up a Black Seas Barracuda at some point...
Itaria No Shintaku Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I find it kind of funny that Itaria keeps weighing in on this topic, yet has what looks like a warrior in the avatar and a British military "beefeater" head below the demo info...in addition to having a tagline about dispensing indiscriminate justice...kind of hypocritical to his/her pacifist statements, but I have to agree with him/her on the point about the poll. I like swords and crossbows. I spite guns and bombs. There is nothing hypocritical.
InfiniteSD Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Being a former Bradley gunner I would love to have it as a set, but I understand Lego's position on this. Though if they do change their minds I will definitely be asking for an M2A2 set.
Super Goblin Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I like swords and crossbows. I spite guns and bombs. There is nothing hypocritical. Haha ok whatever you say...
Itaria No Shintaku Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Haha ok whatever you say... I find you making fun of my opinion very disrespectful.
Super Goblin Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 You shouldn't be so sensitive. Swords and crossbows were created to kill just like guns and bombs. Thinking one is better or more innocent than the other is hypocritical. You thinking war toys are bad but toys of weapons from medieval times aren't is hypocritical. We get you have some weird thing against military toys so I don't see the need for you to continue to post it in here.
Gnac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Who needs a military theme when a discussion thread can become a battlefield? Unfortunately, this is a war of attrition.
Faefrost Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Here's something to think about. WWI is now as far back in time as the western time period was when Wild West was released. I get the impression that it is not so much the time spread as it is that sort of dividing line between the classic battles of antiquity. Colorful uniforms, laid out formations and firing lines, and a distinct fog of history vs what is considered Modern Warfare. Mechanized Army's, truly horrific weapons like machine guns and poison gas, complete wastelands of battlefields, all well documented and ingrained in the public conscious. WWI is generally considered the dividing point between the old and the modern kind of warfare. The first fully truly modern war. It's an understandable and valid dividing line, even if it does seem a bit dated. It should also be noted that Lego has not been shy about depicting stand alone WWI era vehicles. They have made both the Sopwith Camel (twice) and the Fokker Tri Plane. Not to mention many of the vehicles from the adventurers lines. They have just avoided putting them in expressly military settings. As with the licensed sets Context is critical. And at the heart of it all Lego's policy in this is not a "grey or fuzzy line". It is a very understandable position that I believe everyone in the company agrees with. Lego is a Child's Toy. The name means "Play Well". At the end of the day the toy makers do not want to be making toys that depict the horrors of the world that might reasonably show up at the children's front door. They wish for children to be children and childhood to be childhood and to not contribute to kids growing up too fast. Each and every product will be independently evaluated against that rather basic standard. While some of the interpretation and individual sets may be open to debate, the underlying goal is not, and it is quite clear.
Itaria No Shintaku Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) You shouldn't be so sensitive. Swords and crossbows were created to kill just like guns and bombs. Thinking one is better or more innocent than the other is hypocritical. You thinking war toys are bad but toys of weapons from medieval times aren't is hypocritical. We get you have some weird thing against military toys so I don't see the need for you to continue to post it in here. If you are placing on the same level a a crossbow and a bomb, I suggest you to try killing 100.000 people with a crossbow. Then you can come back and tell me. And... please take your time. I'll be waiting for you. PS: If you cared just to read opinions of other afols, people against military themes are way more than the ones for. There is a poll about this topic. But I assume people that do not think like you do have "werid things against military toys". I wonder if there is any connection between your taste for military toys and your total incapacity for respecting other people's opinions. Edited July 23, 2014 by Itaria No Shintaku
Super Goblin Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 If you are placing on the same level a a crossbow and a bomb, I suggest you to try killing 100.000 people with a crossbow. Then you can come back and tell me. And... please take your time. I'll be waiting for you. PS: If you cared just to read opinions of other afols, people against military themes are way more than the ones for. There is a poll about this topic. But I assume people that do not think like you do have "werid things against military toys". I wonder if there is any connection between your taste for military toys and your total incapacity for respecting other people's opinions. So one life to you is less important than 100,000? A crossbow is designed to kill just like a bomb. The scale of destruction is different but it's still the same result. You are the one that doesn't respect peoples opinions that differ from yours. I have read other peoples opinions and I know most afols are against a military theme. It doesn't change my opinion that a modern military theme would be Lego's best selling them. There is a huge market for it, just look at the third party companies like Brickarms. Most kids and the core customer base of Lego would welcome a modern military theme.
Itaria No Shintaku Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 I'm trying to mantain this in a respectufl way, try you too please. So one life to you is less important than 100,000? Er... yes? You are the one that doesn't respect peoples opinions that differ from yours. Just because I DO respect opinions that differs from mine I am not listing the many reasons for which comparing one life to hundred thousand lifes and pretending they can be put on the same level is hypocritical. I have read other peoples opinions and I know most afols are against a military theme. It doesn't change my opinion that a modern military theme would be Lego's best selling them. There is a huge market for it, just look at the third party companies like Brickarms. Most kids and the core customer base of Lego would welcome a modern military theme. I respect your opinion, unlike you, but if you read afols' opinion they not only are against a military theme, they also say that it wouldn't sell as much as you think, because you are blinded by your own awe for such a theme. Though children may scream for having a military set, which is all to proof, it's their parents' final word that matters. And unless children have lenient parents, I doubt parents will endorse the average kid by buying him a military set. Brickarms is mainly for afols, whereas LEGO sells mainly for kids. Often afols do miss the point that TLG's target are and remain little kids. If you do not believe, make a proportion between UCS, Technic, Expert sets, and normal+duplo+easy to build sets. Nobody will be amazed in discovering there's less than 1 afol's set every 20 kids's sets.
Herky Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Itaria, you keep posting that when someone disagrees with you, they are not respecting your opinion...but that is what you keep doing by posting over and over and over again on this thread. There are people who would love a military theme line, you keep disrespecting their opinion by telling them that it is wrong. And no, one life is not less than important than 100,000, all life is precious. Just ask your parents on that, I realize English may not be your first language so you may not even be catching the subtleties of your posts and disrespect yourself, I had to learn that myself, now I am attuned to it. Let's just let the new poll worry about this discussion. I would ask that if you want a theme post away and your ideas, naval, land, air...if not, then please just voice your displeasure in the poll.
Itaria No Shintaku Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Itaria, you keep posting that when someone disagrees with you, they are not respecting your opinion...but that is what you keep doing by posting over and over and over again on this thread. There are people who would love a military theme line, you keep disrespecting their opinion by telling them that it is wrong. And no, one life is not less than important than 100,000, all life is precious. Just ask your parents on that, I realize English may not be your first language so you may not even be catching the subtleties of your posts and disrespect yourself, I had to learn that myself, now I am attuned to it. Let's just let the new poll worry about this discussion. I would ask that if you want a theme post away and your ideas, naval, land, air...if not, then please just voice your displeasure in the poll. Ok, I acknowledge that if you had to spare a life, or spare hundreds thousands lives, it would be the same to you. Nice to know other people's points of view. Very bizarre indeed, but nice to know. Furthermore, telling someone that his opinion is wrong has NOTHING to do with disrespecting it. If you tell him that it's ridicule, idiotic, or something like that is disrespecting. Not if you simply tell that is wrong. And why I should ask my parents? Are you implying that I am behaving like a kid? Now what's disrespectful? Plus: Did you see that what you do are "ad hominem" attacks? You say you master english better than me, but you fail at logic. 1 - Does my avatar looks like a warrior with an ANTENNA and a GLASS? O.O 2 - Do you happen to remotely know that the "beefeater" is an awarding I got for my work here on Eurobricks? I didn't choose to put it. How do you feel now? -.- 3 - My tagline is a QUOTING from a game which I found funny. So if someone uses some Einstein's quote as a tagline, he must be a physician? Or if someone uses Bugs Bunny quotes he must be a rabbit? I didn't point how childish your arguments were, but if you insist, you force me to. Edited July 24, 2014 by Itaria No Shintaku
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