Friends "Controversy"

[mrklaw]

As far as the petitions, i hope that the sheer number of them plus all the posts will show lego that aiming products at girls in these weird stereotypical girl likes is NOT the proper way to go to getting girls into lego products. Just because someone is female doesn't mean that they love pinks and purples or love having their hair done or baking for example.

How about we look beyond the pink (there really isn't that much pink, but it's a cheap hook for naysayers), and consider other things about the friends line.

It's not all baking and hairdressers, there is a vet (good career), inventor and other themes.

Mainly though, I think the open back, modular layout lends itself better to detailed role play, which young girls are Interested in. They are also have fully furnished interiors and lots of accessories to play with. They put some of the full size modulars to shame in that regard and i'm going to steal a ton if ideas from friends sets. The slightly more realistic friends figures will also help with role play.

All of this is basic understanding of how children - and girls in particular - play. Reducing it to 'its just a pink hairdresser' is almost insultingly simplifying things.

[LegoSjaak]

What is the problem?? There are so many companies that make toys for either boys or girls... Just buy the toy or not...it is in your own hands.. For the rest one should not make a problem of it.... put your energy in other problems which are way more important!!!

Just let TLG produce what they want !!!

Greetz, LegoSjaak

[LegoMyMamma]

Since the RadFems are a day late and a dollar short on this, I wasn't going to comment here. However, something one of the petition creators wrote on their site is a perfect example of how clueless they are:

"We would like the adventure-oriented sets to balance out violence with a strong focus on friendship and empathy, (since when was Star Wars actually about violence, anyway?) and we would like the Friends girls to have the opportunity to save the day, too." -- Stephanie Cole, SPARK

Yes, she actually wrote that!

Read it yourself: http://www.sparksummit.com/2012/04/17/why-are-we-still-talking-about-lego/

Written by Stephanie Cole 'aka' the girl who didn't play with LEGO due to all the 'assembly' part of it

What? You think Star Wars is not violent? What planet have you been watching it from anyway?

As for other 'demands' they are also out-of-touch because: 1) Black Widow is piloting the QuinJet; 2) Nya is the Samurai Mech; 3) 2011 Community Workers set contains same female-to-male ratio; 4) Female firefighter MiniFigs, female Park Ranger MiniFig; 5) TLG has female designers (for years); 6) TLG can't change story canon on Licensed themes.

I'm sure there's more, but those are off the top of my head.

LEGO bricks are a building toy -- don't wait for TLG to dictate your scene theme, create your own!

I could write more here, but instead of waiting for corporate marketing to tell me what to do, I am too busy building with my imagination

[Aanchir]

Recently Equestria Daily (a My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic blog) linked to this news column, which despite the title is largely about the LEGO Friends controversy, or rather about the larger toys-and-gender debate it's a part of.

I think it's a really well-rounded perspective. On one hand, it is willing to acknowledge the huge imbalance in marketing techniques between girl-oriented and boy-oriented products and the "girliness" of LEGO Friends in particular, but on the other hand it recognizes the differences in male and female play patterns (if oversimplified a bit) and the role of parents in both creating and resisting the toy market's gender segregation. It has lots of references including the "word cloud" that demonstrates the language gap between boy-oriented and girl-oriented marketing, the "liberate LEGO" petition, and the famous little-girl-in-toy-store video.

The end result comes off as very pro-toy-industry, which some people might disagree with-- goodness knows the toy industry, including The LEGO Group, could do more to create diverse offerings for girls rather than stereotyping them so heavily. TLG definitely has been "playing it safe" with the Friends theme, making it very similar to themes like City that have had a lot of success with girls in the past. The stereotypes in the set designs aren't unhealthy in my opinion, but besides being a quality building toy, there isn't much making the theme as unique as some boy-oriented or gender-neutral LEGO themes like Ninjago or BIONICLE. And that puts it at risk if TLG's competitors respond with girl-oriented building toys of their own.

Still, I think LEGO Friends is a meaningful stepping-stone, and I hope TLG has plans in place to keep moving towards gender equality in their product lines and fanbase.

[Mr Copperhead]

Well, I'm coming at this from a different angle now. I'm a middle age guy with no kids, but I now have all of the Friends sets including the poly bags, and I love them! I built them all and have now taken them all apart to try and make a Friends modular beauty shop or maybe a restaurant. While sorting, I've found there really isn't a lot of pink, more tan and white by far. But now my problem is there aren't enough male figures!! I think I've got 22 girls and only one guy. I hope they release some more guys, and I wish they'd give them that rubbery hair the girls get. Poor Peter...

Edited April 19, 2012 by Mr Copperhead

[daisy]

I find it slightly amusing that the author of that article appeared surprised to find that gender is "hardwired" Uhh..yeah it is encoded in our DNA. Being such a technological society I always find it fascinating that we tend to be so low tech in our understanding of biology.

Being male or female isn't a simple matter of anatomy, it affects physiological processes throughout our body from our feet to (more importantly in this case) our brains. Science is only just touching on the massive differences between male and female neurological function. Whether one looks at it from a design or evolutionary perspective this makes sense. If everyone's energy was focussed on the hunt humanity would not survive, equally if everyone's energy was focussed on nuture, humanity would not survive.

Of course like any physiological process there is a continuum, some people more strongly demonstrate gender traits than others. This likely is strongly based on hormone levels, and neuropathway development "nature". But of course is also affected by parenting and society "nuture" So yes some girls will prefer star wars, cars whatever, but most girls will not. And most girls will prefer social, nuturing type play but some girls will not. (Though I would argue that even girls who are more toward the "boy side" of traits, will be more "girly" than most (not necessarily all) boys, and vice versa)

the past problem has been that kids falling toward the middle in one trait or another were repressed. ie. no dolls allowed for boys, no trucks allowed for girls. Sadly some people seem to think that the answer is to declare boys and girls the same. In order to support the smaller group of children who have been unjustly repressed, we now must repress the majority of children. Kids are smart, they aren't going to fall for it.

My 2 girls play with lego because of lego friends. And yes they now play with more than just "friends". But my oldest the girly one - likes the others lego as an adjunct (and is starting to get interested in the idea of a lego castle). I don't think she would prefer lego if she didn't have friends. My youngest is the "tomboy" she likes cars and space guys. But she too has a strong draw to friends, because a girl with an ATV and a corvette (oops convertible) is pretty cool. She might have played with lego anyway with the right exposure. (though she still isn't drawn to the conflict stuff)

The people who rail against lego friends really frustrate me. I don't tell my youngest daughter she can't play with cars or be a mechanic or astronaut someday. What right do they have to demean my oldest daughter because she is drawn to pink and purple and might want to be a baker or a hairdresser or a mommy. She is not less worthy because she demonstrates strong female traits.

It does actually seem though that those who made a fuss about Lego friends have actually largely failed as they brought exposure to them. Maybe it will be enlighening for them. Celebrating diversity in general would do a lot more for those in the marginalized middle than attempting to enforce homogeneity.

Edited April 19, 2012 by daisy

[brickie]

Daisy,

Thank you for a succinct analysis of current studies into gender.

Vive la difference.

[LegoMyMamma]

I hope they release some more guys, and I wish they'd give them that rubbery hair the girls get. Poor Peter...

Me too -- the new hair is easy to handle and stays on better, IMHO

I also noticed the lack of pink bricks too, in total ratio.

It does actually seem though that those who made a fuss about Lego friends have actually largely failed as they brought exposure to them. Maybe it will be enlighening for them. Celebrating diversity in general would do a lot more for those in the marginalized middle than attempting to enforce homogeneity.

Well put!

--------------------

Let's take a look at the *real* Stephanie ... no, not the LEGO Friends character, the girl who created the petition against the theme for all its perceived pink & girlishness -- Stephanie Cole.

Prepare yourself for hypocrisy in the most privileged way!

And the confusion over the message they are attempting to send.

[fred67]

Another "SPARK" article on Foxnews.com.

I've largely stayed quiet on this issue; it's true that for my daughter (and my own) sake, I'd have simply preferred standard minifigures being used. I love the sets, though.

But someone on bricklink posted a link to this article, and I couldn't really believe what I was reading; they admit the figures are well proportioned (unlike Barbie dolls, for example), but I found this disturbing:

But the SPARK Movement objects to the "LadyFigs," the female version of the little figures who man the spaceships, trucks and forts children create. "Ladyfigs" are somewhat anatomically correct, which hypersexualizes girls, according to the group.

"They have little breasts and they have fancy hair," the organization's executive director, Dana Edell, told FoxNews.com. "And it just disturbs us that this is the image that they want girls to see."

So... I'm curious... having "little" breasts "hypersexualizes girls?" WTF? Really, these people need to whacked with a clue-stick. Finally, a voice of reason:

Dr. Leonard Sax, author of "Why Gender Matters: What Parents and Teachers Need to Know About the Emerging Science of Sex Differences," said gender differences are natural, and that while some girls may prefer traditional LEGOs, there is nothing wrong with the company offering what it sees as a girl-friendly version.

According to Sax, even animals in the wild show differences along gender lines from the earliest ages.

"These particular women's groups are disconnected from reality in their desire to promote the idea that these gender differences are taught by the patriarchy or through socialization," Sax, who also authored "Boys Adrift" and "Girls on the Edge," told FoxNews.com. "The sexualization of children is indeed an important issue, but this is not a part of that."

But then this is just disturbing:

Edell's group has gotten 55,000 signatures as of Thursday decrying the gender-specific LEGO sets.

As a man who would buy both standard and friends sets for himself AND his daughter, I take exception to the idea that the sets are gender specific. Like all toys, they may be geared towards one sex or the other, but nothing is necessarily specific. In this case even less so. Again, I'd have preferred standard figures, but the sets themselves are quite good for anybody.

[LegoMyMamma]

So... I'm curious... having "little" breasts "hypersexualizes girls?" WTF? Really, these people need to whacked with a clue-stick.

Too funny!

Dana Edell of SPARK is an "off, off" Broadway actress with a non-profit Acting Studio -- so once again, none of these girls have the gender-stereotype-busting choice of careers they feel are so maligned in the Friends theme. Those of us who do or have had the "so-called" non-gender-traditional careers realize that whatever gets more girls building is great!

Truth about the petition.

[Commander Adama]

Eww, little breasts? Ewww

Anyway, I hate the sets, changing the figures...

I respect that what Lego are doing, but it's not for me, Star wars isn't violent? Star WARS? Star WARS? DEATH star? StormTROOPERS?

Tell me that none of those hint towards hints of violence, they do... I doubt she has even watched the movies

[daisy]

"They have little breasts and they have fancy hair," the organization's executive director, Dana Edell, told FoxNews.com. "And it just disturbs us that this is the image that they want girls to see."

I agree this is a rediculous comment. This line is aimed at girls 5 to 12. The friends look very similar to the build of most 11-12 year old girls. Even though, since they drive cars, we might think they are more like 16. So if anything they are hyposexualized. And what is the deal with fancy hair comment? We have 4 of the mini-dolls. All except one have very basic hairstyles - pony-tail, partial pony-tail, long and loose. Only the blonde appears to have a styled haircut, and even it is mostly just straight. They would prefer lego give them greasy looking never combed hair? Would be much better if they demonstrated poor grooming habits I guess.

"What it's doing is telling girls that this is what's important to you," Edell said of the beauty parlor and hot tub sets. "Girls aren't building space shuttles, they're getting their nails done."

This is another comment in the fox article that makes it quite clear that the SPARK people are either unfamiliar with the product or intentionally providing false information. Their is no hot tub set!! This has been made very clear. My daughters have the splashpool set and it does not look like a hot tub to children. But it is the second half of the comment that is pretty much a falsehood. Besides the fact that lego friends have no nails to "get done", yes they are not building spaceshuttles but they are building robots. A much more realistic activity for girls under the age of 18.

I really am beginning to think these poor people are just confused, better than thinking they are just liars. I feel kind of sorry for them if they are disturbed by the image 10 to 16 year old girls with small breasts and pony-tails. Goodness I would have horrified them at that age. They really are out of touch with reality.

[fred67]

I really am beginning to think these poor people are just confused, better than thinking they are just liars. I feel kind of sorry for them if they are disturbed by the image 10 to 16 year old girls with small breasts and pony-tails. Goodness I would have horrified them at that age. They really are out of touch with reality.

IMO, most "groups" like that are worthless, attention seeking jackasses. I understand friends is doing quite well... what do they trying to prove? They want power? Donations? Just to get notoriety for their organization any way possible? It's one of those groups with stated lofty and admirable goals... and because of that many well meaning people join on. Then they sink into idiocy trying to make a name for themselves.

Honestly, have any of you heard of "Spark" before this?

[Mr Copperhead]

Honestly, have any of you heard of "Spark" before this?

That's a good point, and nope, I'd never heard of them. I bet you're right and they did get some donations this way. Hmm, now I know what to do if I lose my job, I'll just need to find something to become indignant about

[LegoMyMamma]

Good grief! After all that hoopla, all they suggested to TLG was to add a hospital, a school, or a Town Hall with a female Mayor. What a colossal waste of TLG's time!

Hey SPARK, buy the wonderful new Town Hall Astrid designed and build your own female Mayor, duh, that's why its LEGO!

What?? ... no suggestion of a female pilot who engineers her own space port while policing the universe and putting out plasma fires?? Huh.

And, I do believe there's enough hospitals in the City line, but thanks anyway.

Article: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/girl-power-group-lego-promised-nyc-meeting-article-1.1065035#commentpostform

Good to know TLG stuck to their guns. More Friends for us on the way! Yay!

Oh, yeah, I told ya TLG already had more female MiniFigs in the works -- before you girls even knew Friends existed.

[lightningtiger]

I have one word for SPARK.....IMAGINATION !

Like you said 'LegoMyMamma', a town hall, hospital and school.....but where is the garage, plumbers truck or similar eh ?

When you go to a school, you see mainly females, same at hospital....I thought they wanted less stereotypical roles for our wonderful minidolls ?

From what I read, they had changed their tune a little....perhaps some of them got the chance to build a Friend's set and saw it more that a pretty pinky/purple play thing for what it is.....Lego. And Lego with some interesting construction including our friend SNOT.

Though a do still feel the are male minidolls required.....like the girl's have to show the guy's up don't they ?

I was wondering could we use the power of Cuusoo to spur Lego on the Friend's path, for as I see it Friend's is a gateway for girls who might never have found Lego interesting and then along the way they would discover other Lego themes ?

I was only thinking the other day, what Friend's need is......a boy band for the girls to go crazy over ?

Who's for a One Direction licensed theme ?

Edit - I wonder what SPARK would think about My Little Pony in Lego, over on Cuusoo it's going all guns at the moment....2000 supports in 24 hours (currently sitting at 4181) ?

Edited April 20, 2012 by lightningtiger

[Vindicare]

What is the problem?? There are so many companies that make toys for either boys or girls... Just buy the toy or not...it is in your own hands.. For the rest one should not make a problem of it.... put your energy in other problems which are way more important!!!

Just let TLG produce what they want !!!

Greetz, LegoSjaak

Amen! SPARK(fred, which I haven't heard of before this stinkpot either) acts like it's a big shock that girls like pink and getting their and nails done.

To LegoMyMamma- you go girl!

They want a female mayor...but 10224 Town Hall and swap the heads of the mayor with the secretary.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Legocrazy81

[LegoMavrick]

Hi Folks,

As a parent, who loves LEGO and has two little girls who have taken to the new LEGO friends range like a duck to water, I was shocked and angered when a friend of mine in the States sent me the link clip below. Its got to be read to believe it but the lunatics have been let out of the looney bin I could hardly believe the level of lunacy the world has reached when I read this article.

SSpeaking on behalf of my wife and I we are absolutely thrilled with the new LEGO friends range and how our girls have taken to this new range. To call this a range and idea perfectly suited for girls is simply an understatement and I cannot put in words how much our girls enjoy LEGO friends. One of the chaps in the train section made a friends train of which my girls want me to get the pieces to build. Enough said there really.

Dont know what you folks out there think of this but for me I have some sane advice for The LEGO Group...Ignore these lunatic maniacs!!!! Lego friends is brilliant and hope the range expands big time.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/20/activists-outraged-by-lego-line-for-girls-to-meet-with-company-executives/

[Rick]

Merged into the Friends "Controversy" topic.

[LegoMavrick]

Merged into the Friends "Controversy" topic.

Hi Rick, thanks for this, I thought this topic my be under the General discussion so thanks for that.

[LegoMyMamma]

One of the chaps in the train section made a friends train of which my girls want me to get the pieces to build. Enough said there really.

Thank you -- it is truly an honor to be considered a "chap" in the train section! I had hoped for inspiring girls with my train: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67126

(Hopefully that's the "Friends" train you are referring to ;-)

As for the meeting with TLG, their controversy fell quite flat -- you can read about it here to find some comfort (and possibly a chuckle at their suggestions after all that fuss they made) http://feminists-freak-out-over-lego-friends.blogspot.com/p/from-spark-to-whimper.html

Also, can't wait to see pics of your Friends train! There are several other fans making them now too -- one will be at a fan event in Australia.

I'm looking forward to the Summer wave of sets!

[Vindicare]

This really is so frustratingly annoying...SPARK people clearly have too mich time to whine about things which they can't control. Ooh...look out "dangerous" stereotypes! Scary pink color! Come on, seriously. I guess it's because I'm a guy and flowing with testosterone, but what is the big deal about pink, hair/nail salons, cafes, for girls that is so bad?...I wish Edell would join here and give her reasoning for such dislike of Friends(followed by a swift banning ). Why are they so insulted by pink and girly things?

[ACWWgal2011]

Hi Folks,

As a parent, who loves LEGO and has two little girls who have taken to the new LEGO friends range like a duck to water, I was shocked and angered when a friend of mine in the States sent me the link clip below. Its got to be read to believe it but the lunatics have been let out of the looney bin I could hardly believe the level of lunacy the world has reached when I read this article.

SSpeaking on behalf of my wife and I we are absolutely thrilled with the new LEGO friends range and how our girls have taken to this new range. To call this a range and idea perfectly suited for girls is simply an understatement and I cannot put in words how much our girls enjoy LEGO friends. One of the chaps in the train section made a friends train of which my girls want me to get the pieces to build. Enough said there really.

Dont know what you folks out there think of this but for me I have some sane advice for The LEGO Group...Ignore these lunatic maniacs!!!! Lego friends is brilliant and hope the range expands big time.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/20/activists-outraged-by-lego-line-for-girls-to-meet-with-company-executives/

I am a person against the series. While the boy aimed sets have boys in all sorts of cases, the friends line all revolves around girls in sterotypical scenerios(baking, hair, vet, etc) that revolve around girls with set story lines. Lego could of done so much better to catch the female attention while avoiding the risk of a 6th fail lego girl aimed theme.

And honestly it's getting to the point that if i could, i'd NEVER set foot in a walmart again. I can't go into the girl isle looking for the moshi monsters anymore without those sets staring back at me. I can't even go into the discount section at the walmart we go to without seeing friends polybags.

I've done a ton of only reading about the subject and I've learned 3 things: 1) the controversy is pretty much dead online, 2) it feels like, except for spark, I'm the last person online that hasn't bought the line, and 3) lego spent 4 million on "research" on the set with another 40 million on some sort of advertising thing.

EDIT: Just found the spark - lego meeting article. Almost nothing about friends happened there. Except for including BOYS in the friends adds and expanding to "non-sterotypical lines" with friends sets(like that would ever happen), it seems like lego blew off the entire friends outrage issues.

Edited April 24, 2012 by ACWWgal2011

[mrklaw]

Yeah baking, hair, vet, inventor, designer, tree house builder. All very stereotypically girly

To be fair, there are some 'girly' themes,nut that's because they are themes girls like. They are very much role play sets. So what? Is it lego's job to change the world by forcing all girls to play with trucks, or perhaps they should offer girls some of what they like and encourage them to engage with Lego which might open up the rest of the range to them?

[Lyichir]

Yeah baking, hair, vet, inventor, designer, tree house builder. All very stereotypically girly

To be fair, there are some 'girly' themes,nut that's because they are themes girls like. They are very much role play sets. So what? Is it lego's job to change the world by forcing all girls to play with trucks, or perhaps they should offer girls some of what they like and encourage them to engage with Lego which might open up the rest of the range to them?

Exactly. LEGO is a business, and it's not their job to effect social change. LEGO is already taking a gamble on this theme, given how poorly their previous girl offerings have been. If they eliminated the "girly" roles in sets in favor of more gender-neutral roles, I'm pretty sure they'd lose more customers than they gain. As it is, LEGO is trying to sell building toys to the people who haven't bought them in the past: namely, the girly-girls who traditionally stick to only the products in the "pink aisle". And it's hard to get the message that "it's okay for girls to build" out there if they're making a product that looks nothing like the products those girls are already buying. In other words, the message is meaningless if it doesn't reach its intended audience. LEGO is doing the right thing with this theme: taking baby steps in the direction of gender equality.