Friends "Controversy"

[Gryphon Ink]

Not necessarily. In 34 years of life I have NEVER seen a female construcion worker.

So it's just about your country or mine, not a global condition.

I am truly sorry that Lego doesn't accurately represent your country's culture and standards. It really is unfortunate, but Lego is a globally marketed product that has to be designed around international standards, not those of any one country. They do seem to design things mainly for American and Western/Northern European markets, as those are the countries where Lego sells the most product. But for what it's worth, the ex-girlfriend who worked in construction was Israeli, not American. So it's not like this is an exclusively American phenomenon.

Actually it's mostly like that today too. Capitalism has awarded rich people what Monarchy and Noblety awarded centuries ago, but the problem is still the same. The lower class is still in a slavery condition, but's it's masked as freedom. It is not. You have to work 12 to 16 hours per day to get a minimum wage that barely helps you to survive. This is not really much much different from slavery.

And witch hunting? Do you really think people is entitled to have a personal opinion? Today witches are who opposes to gay marriage, or whoever seems close enough to pedophilia. History repeats itself, in a less brutal way but things ain't changed much.

Okay, we're getting farther and farther from the relevant subject, but this is absolutely preposterous. Things are not at all the same as they were in the Middle Ages. Things like labor laws, trial by jury, due process, representative government, religious freedom and the possibility of escaping your caste did not exist in any country in the world at that time. My wife and I both belong to minorities that suffered incredible persecution during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Our ancestors were frequently expelled from their lands, forced into literal slavery, deprived of basic human rights and subjected to government-sanctioned extermination campaigns. Although racism and persecution still exist today, they are simply not on the same scale. It's ridiculous to claim that things haven't gotten better. They have gotten a thousand times better, and they get better with every generation. We're in the lower economic class, and although we do have to work hard, I can assure you we're not slaves. Our ancestors were, and they would have laughed out loud at the claims you're making here.

And people who oppose gay marriage weren't getting hanged or burned at the stake last time I checked. There are millions of people who oppose gay marriage. The worst thing they might have to endure would be having people tell them how primitive they are. That's really, truly not the same as being burned alive, no matter how badly your feelings may be hurt.

Er... I never said that a black ghostbuster is wrong. I just said that is wrong to put it BECAUSE three white ghostbusters seemed racist. Since there is no difference between black and white, nobody should feel offended if ghostbusters were all males, all females, two black and two white... see? It doesn't make any difference!

What on Earth gives you the idea that they added a black Ghostbuster because "three white Ghostbusters seemed racist"? Let me ask you this: when was the last time you put down money to see a movie with an all black cast? Assuming you're white, I feel pretty confident in predicting that you don't do this very often. If you do, you're not typical. It's part of the human tribalistic condition that most of us want to see someone like us up on the screen. This is why most major Hollywood movies have a "token black/white guy". It's not an issue of bowing to political correctness. It's just that Hollywood wants to get more butts in the seats, so they almost always try to give us at least one character to identify with. It's been demonstrated again and again that when they don't do this, they miss out on sales.

Do you really think that someone would have complianed if the new lego city sets portraited only female cops? No. But if there aren't feminists complain. Is that logical?

Is this even a serious question? Of course people would complain if next year's City sets featured only female cops. The sales would be abysmal. Millions of parents would refuse to buy the sets for their sons, and Lego would instantly be relegated to the status of a "girls' toy". It would be a PR and sales disaster the likes of which TLG has never seen. I'm not sure the company would survive it. Seriously, how many Barbie and Monster High playsets do you see people buying for their male children? For that matter, how many Friends sets do people buy for their sons? I'm sure a few of us here have bought them for our sons, but I'm also sure that the overall number of people who do this is commercially insignificant. You yourself pointed this out in your post about Nya's sales. Now you are saying that no one would protest about an all-female City lineup. Which is it?

I mean, I really feel that sometimes there are wasted places in the 16 collectible minifigures, for minifigures that have really no use for me, because they HAD to put a female character in it. Pick series 11. A female robot? Seriously? Who needed that? I have never seen a female robot among boy's toys in my entire life. But they had to to be politically correct.

Well, I'm not at all sure TLG did this because of political correctness, but at least I agree with you that the "girly robot" is a little ridiculous. On the other hand, you're cherry-picking your evidence. The female robot is the one and only "token female" CMF that has not really had a valid reason for existing. The rest of them all filled logical roles. A cavewoman is invaluable for people who are trying to build prehistoric MOCs, and beyond that she's just a cool character. A girl skateboarder makes perfect sense if you want your city scenes to pop. There's nothing wrong with having female pirates. They did exist in reality, and they continue to be seen in pop culture. You may not be aware of the historical facts and you may not feel like you need them in your MOCs, but other people do want them. Women are half the world's population. Having more of them in the CMF lineup is a good thing for most of us.

I feel like this discussion is close to derailing, if it hasn't done so already, so I will abstain from any further debate that is not directly related to Friends.

[Pandora]

I feel like this discussion is close to derailing, if it hasn't done so already, so I will abstain from any further debate that is not directly related to Friends.

It is derailed.

Please everybody, focus on LEGO Friends.

Furthermore, any continued argumentativeness will be dealt with severely, so watch your tone when you reply to other members. If you can't make a point politely and respectfully then don't make it at all. Thank you.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I highly disagree with this statement. For some background information, I served in the US Navy from 1999 - 2005 (did one tour in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and one tour in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom), and from the get-go I had to deal with fellow sailors of the female persuasion. First of all, I was in an integrated division in boot camp. What that meant was that while we slept and showered in different barracks rooms (adjoining each other), half the male recruits and half the female recruits would form up with their counterparts and do all other training (including eating and marksmanship) together, and only fall out into their separate living areas in the evening. I'm also proud to say that my division not only set (and as far as I know, still holds) the record time for completing the obstacle course, but we also did better than ANY other division that went through at the same time, including all-male divisions. We accomplished this by working together effectively as a team, and while the female recruits weren't, ON AVERAGE, as strong as the male recruits, they were, again, on average, smaller and more agile, so our strategy was to alternate male and female recruits, so that they could help each other out during parts that one or the other was having difficulty with (which was allowed), and we cleaned up the competition!

During training, there weren't as many females in my classes, mainly because it was for electronics technician type work, and such fields are still male-dominated (which is why I was delighted to see Olivia's Invention Workshop in the first wave of the Friends sets), but we still had a few, and they went through the same exact training and sets of standards as the male sailors.

When I got to the fleet, it was a completely different story: The first ship I was stationed on, the USS O'Brien (DD-975) had about 30% of the crew (100 out of 300) consisting of female sailors, and the second (and last) ship I was stationed on, the USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3) about 60% of the crew was female, and every one of those female sailors pulled their weight and served with honor, which was reflected by my first ship receiving a Naval Unit Citation and two Meritorious Unit Citations during the time I was aboard, and the second ship I was on received a Meritorious Unit Citation as well as a Battle Efficiency ribbon during the time I was on board, and BOTH ships went through arduous Persian Gulf deployments while I was aboard (the first ship's deployment got extended by about 2 months due to 9-11 happening right before we were supposed to return to our home port in Yokosuka, Japan).....

In addition to that, I've been working as a DOD civilian employee for the past 4 years, and have seen numerous female soldiers (including one of the recent base commanders) on the army base that I work on.

So you can obviously see where my perspective on this subject is different from yours and Itaria No Shinkaku's: I've spent the past 13 years or so of my life in situations where men and women ARE for the most part, treated as equals and seen that, yes, it CAN, in fact, work, but I've also seen where more could be done.

Much like LEGO Friends: Yes, it is a step in the right direction, getting girls into construction toys and, perhaps even more importantly, parents and grandparents to view construction toys as acceptable for girls, but more could be done (I.e. hopefully eventually phasing out the minidolls and/or incorporating the pastel colors into the main lines).

As for the feminist frequency (and other feminists) commenting about women being objectified, Girl Writes What, a Youtube blogger and men's rights activist, had a good response to that in the form of her "Feminism and the Disposable Male" video (which has been shown in numerous sociology and gender relations classes in colleges around the US), which points out that, yes, under the old Patriarchal system, women WERE objectified, as valued treasures, because of their ability to bear children. However, at the same time, men were ALSO objectified, due to the fact that one man could, theoretically, father 100 children, as expendable beasts of burden, disposable cannon fodder and mobile sperm banks.

Unfortunately (and this is one area I agree with Itaria no Shinkaku on), while women have made great strides in being allowed to do the same jobs as men, and having equal rights, men are STILL treated as completely disposable: I've found that the surest way to tell if a self-styled feminist is truly for gender equality or just on a Matriarchal power-trip is to ask her whether she believes that women should also have to register for selective service in order to vote or get federal grants (in the US) or, in countries that have it, include women in mandatory military conscription. If they're serious about equality, their answer will be either, yes, women should be included in registering for the draft, or that all forms of forced military service should be abolished for everyone.

...And to bring this topic back around to the ORIGINAL complaints about stereotyping in LEGO themes, this is why, even now, boys are expected (encouraged even!) to engage in toys and activities that are action and danger-oriented (toy soldiers, police and fire fighting toys, etc), in order to get them ready for the day that they will be fixing bayonets and charging up the hill into cannon fire, or giving up their seat on a lifeboat to a woman, while girls are encouraged to play with baby dolls and easy-bake sets to prepare them for the role of motherhood and nurture. As I said before, that stark division of labor was a necessity back in the stone age, when humans were merely an extremely clever snack for big cats and other apex predators, rather than THE dominant life form on the planet.

Now that there are over 6 BILLION of us overcrowding the planet, and most apex predators tend to crap their pants and run whenever they come across some humans, such rigid gender roles are no longer necessary for the survival of the species, and IMO, are only holding back societal and scientific progress, and the sooner we can be rid of such outdated notions as specific gender roles, the better.

I'm glad to hear that, and that is a very cool success story. Though I don't think I said that woman can't do that. I recall that generally, that's not their role, and since ancient times the men have been fighting. Teamwork is great.

Again, I never support strict gender roles, I'm just saying there was a reason for it.

I'm assuming you mean in real life, not Lego. Well, you own your experience, but I own mine, and I can tell you I've known plenty of female construction workers (my mother for one, and also one of my ex-girlfriends), and have met women who were firefighters, police officers, and medical personnel. Like, significant numbers of them. It's not feminist propaganda. It's the reality of the late 20th - early 21st century.

Who is this "we" that you speak of here? "We" certainly doesn't include me, or my wife, or half a billion Hunger Games and Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Alien fans. If everybody liked the Damsel in Distress trope, nobody would have spoken out against it. You like that - and that's fine. I'm not telling you what to like. But you don't speak for humanity.

I think you may be projecting a little bit.

You do realise that every James Bond movie since Goldeneye has played heavily on the fact that the "manly" spy follows a value system that is seriously out of date, don't you? Did you notice that Bond's boss has been a woman since Goldeneye? That the evil mastermind in TWINE was a woman, there have been incredible action women in most of the recent movies, and that Bond was hinting rather strongly that he has had homosexual dalliances in Skyfall? These things happened because yes, Virginia, people really were getting seriously tired of the antiquated old-school James Bond.

Yes, it's true, the Damsel in Distress trope is based on archaic beliefs that have little relevance in the modern world. Other things that were popular in the Middle Ages: witch-burning, rape, torture, slavery, duels to the death, government by the "divine right" of kings with perks for nobles and zero legal protection for commoners, and the hilarious sport of dogfighting. Bring 'em all back, I say. Good old-fashioned entertainment, amirite?

Did you really just say that gender equality is open for debate? And which fundamental societal institutions are being changed exactly? Everywhere I look, I see things getting better. Women getting better pay and shattering glass ceilings. People of color finally getting less unequal opportunities. Gay people being allowed the freedom to marry and be seen as normal by a new generation that simply doesn't give a damn about their sexual preferences. Playing fields leveled everywhere you look, opportunities given to millions of people who didn't have a chance to lead successful lives two generations ago, better (although still far from perfect) protection from hate crimes and discrimination. Are these the societal institutions you think we should be preserving?

Many women enjoy these things. And many women don't. My wife is a mixture of old school chivalrous beliefs and the modern belief that NOTHING can stand in her way just because she's a woman. She likes me to open doors for her, too. She likes being pampered, getting massages and having me serve her drinks. She believes that because I'm a man, I'm responsible for all home improvement. Physically, she is weaker than me. I can overpower her, and I could probably knock her out with a good punch. But I am NOT her protector, because she doesn't need a protector. She has, on at least two occasions, stood up against gangsters - I'm talking about actual gangsters with guns, not punk kids wearing Eminem T-shirts - and forced them to back off because my wife is tough as %^#^&* nails. This is a very big part of why I love my wife.

Not every woman is like my wife. And not every woman is like your girlfriend. So, yes, there's room in the world for some Damsel in Distress stories. But there's also room for some Lara Crofts and Nikitas.

Um, no. "They" are trying to convince you that ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation don't matter, because for thousands of years those things have been used to keep certain classes of people down and deny them the opportunity to lead happy, fulfilling lives like everybody else. And that just isn't fair. No amount of crying about "cancelling our differences" will make it fair. It's time to give everybody equal opportunities, including the opportunity to be a Lego hero or a Ghostbuster.

No offense, but this is dangerously close to the reasoning that was once used to claim that women could not be doctors. Or engineers. Or pilots. Or astronauts. This argument was tired in 1970. In 2013, it's ridiculous. The differences between male and female brains have not stopped women from making important scientific discoveries, saving lives every day and running billion-dollar corporations. Nor have they prevented millions of men from being wonderful, caring stay-at-home fathers (I was a SAHD for the first three years of my elder daughter's life, and I am still to a large extent "Mister Mom". My wife just doesn't have the "mothering gene". You'd be amazed how many women don't have it.)

We can argue about the differences until we're all blue (or pink) in the face, and nature vs. nurture, and we can cry about how this one insulted that one and help help, I'm being oppressed, come and witness the violence inherent in the system. But the simple fact is that there is no one philosophy that works for everyone. The classic Lego storyline of action-hero boys saving helpless girls works for a very large number of people, and that is why they sell. But they also don't work for a slightly smaller (but growing) number of people - and that is why there's controversy.

Let the record show that I'm still a huge Friends fan. Still waiting for Heartlake High! And I have one daughter who's anxiously waiting for a Dolphin Cruiser, while the other daughter keeps bugging me for new Chima sets. Strangely, the one who wants the Cruiser is the one who despises pink, and the one who wants Chima is our little Barbie Sparkle Pony Princess. Wow, I just had an incredible thought: what if we're all just individuals?

Peace be upon you, my brothers and sisters.

Regarding the whole "Audience thing," I was just saying the Box Office numbers, and when you think about all the movies that use this trope, it proves most people aren't tired about it. The marketers do a lot of research.

Also, I never said gender equality is open for debate. And I never said we should preserve Hate Crimes or racism. And I never said a thing about going back to King Days laws that don't protect commoners. That is putting words in my mouth.

I want to stress again, I never said any of this, I simply say the reasons for them, and wether I agree. People can make their own choices, but again, generally is the key word.

Time to get back on topic. I'm glad for all women who can protect themselves, and those who refuse to be lumped by a stereotype, as I agree, all should have equal oppurtuntities.

I would hope to reply to more of the comments, but I can't as I must be brief (I'm on vacation) and some of the discussion is not meant to be here on EB.

[LiamM32]

I just returned from my trip to my cottage in Saskatchewan, so I have some late replies;

I really don't get what's the big deal. Here's a fact: Girls like pink, pastely, stuff and Friends. Boys like blue, action, construction and City sets. I'm only saying how it is, a fact. If girls like the same thing as boys, there would be no need to make a Friends line.

As I said earlier that I was offended by that post. If you want it to come across as an opinion that someone may simply disagree with, rather than being offensive, than I suggest that you edit this post to replace the "Here's a fact:" with "I think that".

@Itaria No Shintaku & @Capt.JohnPaul: I think it is important to note that the colours that boys and girls aesthetically like may differ from the colours that they look for when shopping. They might simply know that the products that they like or are targeted to them tend to be coloured blue or pink. They just know that the products that they want come in those colours; you don't grab a grey Technic axle instead of black because you prefer the colour grey.

I did have a really long reply, but I stupidly backed out of the page and I can't get it back. Thus, I am trying again. I also thank Gregorybrick and Aanchir for pointing out that some colors were viewed as royalty back then. You made me rethink. Also, let's keep things calm guys.

I see what you mean. There should be a feature on the website to prevent that. I was actually going to mention that pink used to be a masculine colour in one of my previous posts, but I accidentally backed out of the page and had to restart.

Not necessarily. In 34 years of life I have NEVER seen a female construction worker.

So it's just about your country or mine, not a global condition.

Er... I never said that a black ghostbuster is wrong. I just said that is wrong to put it BECAUSE three white ghostbusters seemed racist.

Since there is no difference between black and white, nobody should feel offended if ghostbusters were all males, all females, two black and two white...

see? It doesn't make any difference!

Do you really think that someone would have complianed if the new lego city sets portraited only female cops?

No.

I mean, I really feel that sometimes there are wasted places in the 16 collectible minifigures, for minifigures that have really no use for me, because they HAD to put a female character in it. Pick series 11. A female robot? Seriously? Who needed that? I have never seen a female robot among boy's toys in my entire life. But they had to to be politically correct.

This should be insulting for women, IMHO.

Yes, I see what you mean that we have different observations of things because of living in different places. But I am skeptical that female construction workers are so rare in Italy. If there really are so few, than that is a problem that must be solved in society.

Here in Canada, any job that I know people working in a find both men and women (typically in uneven numbers). People here rarely call it ironic of their gender for someone to choose a particular career. I think that this is because nothing in society stands in someones way of getting the job that they want, but just their own skills. If it is ever seen as weird for someone around here of a particular gender getting a particular job, it would be men, if they work at a makeup shop or somewhere like that. If there are no social barriers, than you would normally have both men and women, but just in uneven numbers. Of course, I am just stating a concern, but not making you responsible for it.

I don't think it is really worth discussing thee thing about a black ghost-buster. You say that no one should care about the gender/race of the ghost-buster, but that can't happen if you accuse the one black-African of being forced. I just think that making one of them black-African is just a way to make them look different from each other, as they don't want four identical ghost-busters.

And about the Robot Lady minifigure, I can agree with that. I think that it is the worst idea of all the collectible minifigures. I liked the original clockwork robot, but I didn't even think it had a gender.

Now I want to make my own statistics of minifigure gender demographics, just a Aanchir did earlier. I will do some things different from him. Hopefully that will bring us back on topic (somewhat).

[Luke_likes_Lego]

Q. Does the market love Friends and keeps buying them as fast as TLG can make them?

A. Y

Q. Will stores take a 'profit' view (as opposed to a 'philosophical' view) on whether to put the Friends line in the girls or boys section?

A. Y

Q. Do the above points render most other questions irrelevant in a capitalist world?

A. Y

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Yes, I see what you mean that we have different observations of things because of living in different places. But I am skeptical that female construction workers are so rare in Italy. If there really are so few, than that is a problem that must be solved in society.

I don't see it like a problem.

Remember that in Canada you have a totally different weather than in Italy... I doubt you have 45°C in Canada. ;)

[LiamM32]

I don't see it like a problem.

Remember that in Canada you have a totally different weather than in Italy... I doubt you have 45°C in Canada. ;)

Whoa! I didn't know that it was that hot there. I am going to Italy in August so I will experience it for the first time.

But I don't see what the temperature has to do with gender balance of a particular job.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

But I don't see what the temperature has to do with gender balance of a particular job.

It's about physical endurance.

By the way there are jobs that italian girls usually do not take even into consideration.

These are jobs that in 34 years I've only seen about male people in Rome (over 5 millions inhabitants)

• Construction Worker
  
• Car Mechanic
  
• Electricist
  
• Plumber
  
• Road worker (building roads, digging for changing wires for gas, telecomunication, and so on)
  

Shortly, here it's very very difficult that a girl studies until 30 years old and then accepts to do this kind of jobs that in Italy are considered very humble.

While men are considered more "brute-force" workpower and then even if that's humble, you can live with that, girls are kind more proud and they rarely if never accept job like these.

Actually, It's been 10 15 years that I do not see italian people being construction or road workers, these jobs usually are taken by immigrates from Russia, Romania or Poland. Immigrates from these countries actually are male construction/road workers and women being houseworkers or caring for old people.

That's the way it is here.

[Pandora]

I fear we are once more heading into off topic territory....

Let's keep it about LEGO, please.

[lightningtiger]

You know what's funny....all this banter about female workers this and that.....has anyone noticed the increase in female minifig workers in Lego City sets this year ?

There's a few......fire fighters, transport workers and coast guard rescuers........now I wonder if Friend's will drift in the same way as time goes on the girl's will grow up in women and chose their careers ?

Everyone must remember that we all come from different countries with different beliefs and ideologies......Lego tries to go with the flow of what is the most common in the western world being it's biggest costumer base.....like the USA which has a higher number of female workers doing things like fire fighting, truck driving, etc.,. So maybe the girls in Friend's will too become either a fire fighter or plumber or police officer, etc.,.

[Chocolatecake]

Today I went to a danish store that has 35% of lego this week, and The Friends Set were popular and not just popular, I actually head a mother complain to her mother that there were more legosets for her girl, than there were for her boy!

That's a bit funny, because City, Chima, LOTR etc. does have a lot of sets that have boys as a target.

So I think that LEGO have found a way to the girls (here in Denmark)

The only sad thing, was a mother that said to her 4-5 year old boy: "that is to girlie to you" - he was grapping the new beach buggy set.

[runmymouth]

My daughter is going to play with castle, city, star wars, LOTR sets all when she is a bit older. I will just let her pick which sets make her happy. I wish they would go back to the older "girl" sets where the minifigs were the same size as all the other mini figs. I hate the difference in mini fig size. I might even buy some of the friends sets if it weren't for the god awful minifigs. I have found my self saying that is a nice set on some of them myself (as a male AFOL).

[Sarah]

My daughter is going to play with castle, city, star wars, LOTR sets all when she is a bit older. I will just let her pick which sets make her happy. I wish they would go back to the older "girl" sets where the minifigs were the same size as all the other mini figs. I hate the difference in mini fig size. I might even buy some of the friends sets if it weren't for the god awful minifigs. I have found my self saying that is a nice set on some of them myself (as a male AFOL).

Which sets are you talking about where the minifigs were the same size? The homemaker sets? Paradisa and Belville evidently didn't do very well.

[runmymouth]

Which sets are you talking about where the minifigs were the same size? The homemaker sets? Paradisa and Belville evidently didn't do very well.

Now I am trying to go back and find the ones my sister had that my friend and I stole and made into other things but I liked playing with her on those sets. Looking back it was Paradisa. I thought they were great sets and I had to find them under city not their own theme when looking back.

[Pandora]

I wish they would go back to the older "girl" sets where the minifigs were the same size as all the other mini figs. I hate the difference in mini fig size. I might even buy some of the friends sets if it weren't for the god awful minifigs. I have found my self saying that is a nice set on some of them myself (as a male AFOL).

I don't mind the Minidolls too much, and I personally believe that if their presence was what was necessary for TLG to make sets for girls, then so be it. Whether TLG should be making sets specifically for girls is a can of worms I'm not looking to open here.

That said, the Friends sets are gorgeous sets, and are mostly Minifig compatible; the only difficulty for Minifigs might be things like vehicles or horses, as the parts to fit the Minidolls in are specifically Minidoll sized (for the legs and feet). So aside from those areas (and surely they can be adapted, although I've never personally tried) standard Minifigs can happily occupy Friends buildings, use their accessories and even (as has been demonstrated many a time) wear their hair.

Paradisa sets did include Minifigs, and they were really nice sets too, but I would venture to suggest that they had much more of a "girly" theme. There was a lot of cool building in those sets, especially in the alternative builds, but there was often a woman pushing a pram, and there was still a lot of pink, except it was less "in your face" because it was pastel.

I've often said in my Friends reviews that it really wouldn't take too much to de-pinkify the sets. Do that and move in some Minifigs and then the sets just become highly detailed great Town builds.

[Zula]

It's interesting to me as a parent of girl that "Friends" is the "girl's Lego" of Lego. Funny, she loves Castle, dragons, Hobbit, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Lone Ranger, etc, etc, etc.... This is what she NATURALLY seems interested in playing with and building. As a kid, I was the same way - always seemed to gravitate to the "boys toys" - had all those great Star Wars toys (boy I wish I still had THOSE!), Lego, sports stuff....... Does any of this make either my daugher or me "boy" - of course not - it's just what we naturally like. Nature - Nurture. Who knows. I suppose if Friends gets more girls playing with Lego, then so be it, but it just seems like Lego IS taking the "polar gender marketing route" at the moment in many of thier current lines/themes.

I love the comment someone made that saw a girl with a Lego haul of City trucks, etc! But I must say, it's interesting to me to see what girls and boys are "supposed to like".

[Sarah]

Zula: That's great -- for the girls who liked the existing Lego sets. But evidently there's a huge market of girls who were NOT that interested in the existing set but like the new line.

If they can have different lines of Lego for those who like Star Wars, LoTR, superheroes, etc. Why not have some to appeal to a different untapped market? Even if their existing sets already appeal to some girls? Certainly the Friends sets seem to have a market of its own because they are selling VERY well. Even if it is just selling VERY well to folks who would have bought other Lego sets -- they are obviously choosing to buy these sets instead.

Growing up, I bought some Lego sets like a fire station, space ship, etc. But if I'd had the choice? I would have preferred these sets. Sets that have the roleplay potential mixed together with the ability to make minor modifications to make them fit what you want.

I bought what was available but that would not have prevented me from buying THESE instead if they had been what was available. I was lured into Lego using the Farm set (190?) and the Homemaker Kitchen and Bathroom and even now, all these days later, those are the sets with the most memories attached. I built the sets and then played inside of them.

Later on, what I remember better is using the Lego minifigs as dolls in my dollhouses and Barbie doll (Size. We weren't allowed to have actual Barbies but had Skipper, Jenny, and other dolls) play. So evidently Lego is right in a way, even for this girl who actually had quite the collection as a kid.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Those are very interesting comments! Though are in a 'majority' for a lack of better words? I mean, people like the FF Girl say LEGOs are marketed towards boys, but you like them just as much. On the other hand, Friends, marketed towards girls, is also very successful.

[Zula]

Sarah - your comments are interesting and your experiences and memories of what stands out most in your mind. For me, it was the Star Wars toys (and WAY back it was the Fisher Price Airport and Farm sets - LOL!). I only played with barbie dolls with another friend of mine who loved them, so I had a few. I also had a baby doll that I liked a lot, too. I have no doubt that if Lego had the Star Wars toys back in the day, I'd have had quite the collection!

I'm also into history, so had a lot of Army figures, jeeps, tanks, guns, etc, etc. I used to create "MOC" battle scenes, so Lego wouldn've come in handy in that regard as well back then. Classic Matchbox cars were also BIG then and we used to play with them outside, creating all sorts of "tracks" and environments. I wish Lego did a bit more of that now - classic car designs - a line in their own right. Trains were another BIG toy for me - HO scale model trains and I wish Lego was better with that part of the market as well. They've had a few decent ones, but not nearly enough or with good motorizing capability. It doesn't seem to be something they want to get too involved with, generally speaking.

All that said, my daughter is quite "eclectic" in that she likes all sorts of "themes" - very well rounded in this regard. But she does seem to gravitate more towards the "boy" sets. I guess for me, it's all rather interesting just how much the "gender gap" plays into one's choices. Perhaps it was the fact that I grew up with mostly boys in our neghborhood - perhaps that influenced me - perhaps it was just my natural interests coming out - who knows. But even my best friend (a girl) was not "girly" and all into the "pink stuff" like so many seem to be. I guess our neighborhood was an "outdoor" crowd - we played outside A LOT and than means "getting dirty" and playing sports and climbing trees, etc.... We were that generation of girls that came up, forging the way for the next generation of girls to have more "equal footing" in sports and academics - we are the "USA Women's Soccer Team" of the 1990's and the "USA Women's Hockey Team" of the 1990s & 2000's. We often had to "play on the boy's teams" and "outplay the boys", etc.... It was really no different in the toy world. Generation X was not the "bra-burners" of the 1960's - we were the next generation that saw Title IX in the early 70's and that it was far more acceptable to play with "boy's toys" without being "excommunicated" from society. So, I guess for me, lines like "Friends" just seems so stereotypical, for good or for "bad". It just makes me wonder if these girls REALLY want this type of line or are they being "told" they SHOULD like it....

Food for fodder...

[Sarah]

Being told they "Should" like the set doesn't seem to have helped Belville or Paradisa succeed. To some extent, isn't it belittling of a girl's choices to imply they can't make their own choices, but only do what someone else says they should? While accepting that kids that choose regular Lego ARE making their own choices?

Like I said, I had Lego growing up. Hot Wheels (I wish they still had sets like the ones I had. It seems like it folded up and had a few things for the cars to do, as well as run them around the track up and down.) I had a whole shoe box of them. I played with Star Wars figures at a friend's house but never had any of my own (didn't desire any either, though I certainly jumped on the Space Lego set when I had the money for it. OTOH I didn't see the movies until they came out on TV). I had a magic set, Erector sets, as well as my dolls. I had the entire range of toys except for not army men/guns. I don't recall being interested in those. I had a 100-in-1 Radio Shack Electronics set, a chemistry set, and still use the voltmeter that I made from a kit with my dad.

All of these were my choices. Both of the dolls I played with and the science toys and the cars and the Legos. It was all my choice. I did NOT run around outdoors. That was not my choice. I prefered staying indoors and reading. About the only kind of outside play I enjoyed to any great extent was swimming. -- we did LOTS of that in the summer.

[Faefrost]

It's interesting to me as a parent of girl that "Friends" is the "girl's Lego" of Lego. Funny, she loves Castle, dragons, Hobbit, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Lone Ranger, etc, etc, etc.... This is what she NATURALLY seems interested in playing with and building. As a kid, I was the same way - always seemed to gravitate to the "boys toys" - had all those great Star Wars toys (boy I wish I still had THOSE!), Lego, sports stuff....... Does any of this make either my daugher or me "boy" - of course not - it's just what we naturally like. Nature - Nurture. Who knows. I suppose if Friends gets more girls playing with Lego, then so be it, but it just seems like Lego IS taking the "polar gender marketing route" at the moment in many of thier current lines/themes.

I love the comment someone made that saw a girl with a Lego haul of City trucks, etc! But I must say, it's interesting to me to see what girls and boys are "supposed to like".

My friends daughter is the same way. She has no interest in Friends, because she feels they aren't "real" Lego. She likes Castle and Lone Ranger, and gets very upset when there aren't any girl Minifigs. (Oh and Pss't Lego, this is a 6 year old black girl. She would LOVE to finally see an actual minifig that looks like her. You know a "fleshy" brown skinned female... That isn't an alien.)

[Zula]

Duke - Yeah, I think Lego is starting to get the hint about a more diverse representation of minifigures - let's hope so!

Sarah - Oh, I'm sure that the girls ARE making their own chioces, generally speaking. I guess it's just that marketing seems to play soooo heavily on stereotypes. Now, that being said, perhaps most girls like the "pink stuff" and the boys like the "war stuff" - nothing wrong with that. I'm thinking more in terms of marketing and giving kids certain "impressions" of what is supposed to be "girl" and what is "boy". Surely there is that "grey" area that overlaps - and Lego seems to be having less "grey" than perhaps they used to.

Just some thoughts to ponder for us all....

[Blast]

Such rage over Lego products made to look feminine and how they are "Supporting Gender Stereotypes" seriously just let the kids decide what they want to play with rather than complaining about how it looks like a typical girls' toy. Really grinds my gears that supposed "Feminists" have to pick at this rather than any other issues around the world.

[Zula]

Blast - "Feminists".... I doubt that either Sarah or I would put us in that camp (correct me if I'm wrong, Sarah). The only point I was trying to make was that sometimes marketing is such an influence on people that "choice" is kinda not always "free" - there are so many influencial factors that make up our "choices" in our world. We usually want to "fit it" with others - at least most people do. I see families that "promote" the stereotypes - so I wonder how much "choice" the kids are making that is truly free.

But, there you are. It's our world. Lego is simply "following along" more than it seemed to in the past.

And just to add - I think it's important to keep in mind that girls (and boys for that matter) didn't have much "choice" in the past - in the sense of choosing what THEY were interested in playing with. If one went "outside the bounds" it was quesitoned - still is to some extent, but moreso for boys if they cross into the "girl rhelm" of toys. It's more aceptable for a girl to play with traditional boys toys, just like girls can wear long pants (but most boys wouldn't be caught dead in a dress/skirt).

It's just an interesting "study" since toys are kind of a "microcosm" of the world.

[Blast]

I'm not referring to either of you two, I'm referring to the articles about Friends I've read written by so called "Feminists" sorry I didn't clear that up.