Friends "Controversy"

[brickmack]

Meh, lots of people completely overreacting about this theme. Still better than Belville, I don't recall there being nearly (some, but not much) as much complaining about Belville when it came out. LEGO's PR group is probably prepared for this though...

There is this little cartoon where a person is behind the computer and is supposed to be going to bed and they call out: 'I can't, someone on the internet is wrong'. That is how I am about this

Yay an XKCD fan! (Or you just found it randomly somewhere, still a good one).

[gotoAndLego]

I think some of the issue is the type of sets available. Aside from the inventor's workshop and possibly the petshop, the rest place girls in more domestic roles. For example, Lego could have easily friendified a doctor's office. Now I do understand that girls do like feminine things and there is nothing wrong with that, but there should be balance with other roles for girls. Obviously Lego has a lot inveted in the new colors so those will make up the primary colors, but I just don't think the color pallette is the real issue.

Edited December 27, 2011 by gotoAndLego

[lightningtiger]

Well, I have finally completed the whole poll.....my son isn't that hot on the Friend's theme at all.

But here is something to think about, I took a box of built up city sets to a family Christmas do on Christmas Eve....guess who took the most interest in the vehicles and buildings....my 2 year old great niece Macy....she loved all the police cars etc., the other children apart from my son appear to entered their dark times already......I might have to turn them all back from the darkside !

Children will play with different toys at different times of their lives....while growing up and even in adulthood.....look at us eh ?

We can have no doubt that this theme will be a success but long term impact on Lego in general....time will only tell.

[cimddwc]

There is this little cartoon where a person is behind the computer and is supposed to be going to bed and they call out: 'I can't, someone on the internet is wrong'. That is how I am about this

Yay an XKCD fan! (Or you just found it randomly somewhere, still a good one).

And here's the original link. (Bookmarked since I first saw it.) Yeah, the SIWOTI syndrome can be time-consuming, I know...

[Legoist]

from: http://www.businessw...s-12142011.html

That was a great reading, thanks for sharing!

My highlights, good food for thoughts:

"Today, girls and boys play equally with Duplo, Lego’s bigger bricks for toddlers. But starting at the princess phase, Lego’s smaller, more intricate kits skew “boy.”"

"The research techniques and findings have been controversial at Lego from the moment it became clear that if the company were serious about appealing to girls, it would have to do something about its boxy minifigure, its 4-centimeter plastic man with swiveling legs, a yellow jug-head, and a painted-on face. “Let’s be honest: Girls hate him,”"

"(...) defying the consensus that modern kids don’t have the attention span to stick with painstaking challenges, especially during playtime. To compete with the plug-and-play quality of computer games, Lego had been dumbing down its building sets, aiming for faster “builds” and instant gratification. (...) Lego saw it had drawn the wrong lessons from computer games. Instead of focusing on their immediacy, the company now noticed how kids responded to the scoring, ranking, and levels of play—opportunities to demonstrate mastery"

"Lego sent its team back out to scrutinize girls, starting in 2007. The company was surprised to learn that in their eyes, Lego suffered from an aesthetic deficit. “The greatest concern for girls really was beauty,”"

"Lego confirmed that girls favor role-play, but they also love to build—just not the same way as boys. Whereas boys tend to be “linear”—building rapidly, even against the clock, to finish a kit so it looks just like what’s on the box—girls prefer “stops along the way,” and to begin storytelling and rearranging. Lego has bagged the pieces in Lego Friends boxes so that girls can begin playing various scenarios without finishing the whole model."

"The key difference between girls and the ladyfig and boys and the minifig was that many more girls projected themselves onto the ladyfig—she became an avatar. Boys tend to play with minifigs in the third person. “The girls needed a figure they could identify with, that looks like them,”"

As an AFOL I have zero interest for the Lego Friends line, I'd certainly hate to have these ladyfigs around with the rest of our minifigs and bricks, and I am not much interested in pastel colours for building either.

But as a parent, I am curious to see how my son & daughter will react to Lego Friends.

[lightningtiger]

To answer that question 'Legoist' is also as easy as writing it in the first place, odds are boys might go meh and girls might go I must have them all, Mum and Dad....please !

I feel more so now that we must wait a few months to see the impact of this new theme....I wonder if we'll get new members here who will only be MOCing Friend's eh ?

[Peppermint_M]

Funilly enough in 1911 pink was still quite likely a colour for boys as it was the stronger shade...

Eh, off to go buy new sets today. Will pick some up today.

[cruiser_elston]

Belville also has quite a similar color palette, mostly pink and purple. So I think the problem lies in the minifigure.

[lightningtiger]

Eh, off to go buy new sets today. Will pick some up today.

Does that mean we have a Friend's reviewer 'Peppermint' ?

[David Thomsen]

I agree with some of their points, but they could have done a bit more research.

(I guess “real” females never wear pants or engage in sports, because almost every Ladyfig I’ve seen is wearing a miniskirt or a dress)

The idea seems to be that girls should be focused on cooking, sunbathing, snazzy cars and looking pretty.

Cooking, sunbathing, snazzy cars, garbage collection... wait?

For all that 'Friends' is still not quite the step forward feminism might have hoped for, the City range has progressed enormously. In 2006/2007, the doctors were men and the nurses were women. In 2012, the medics wear equal uniforms. In 2010, the pilot is a man and the air host is a woman. The next year, a woman is working at the police station alongside the men and clearly isn't just a secretary.

It's true there are still no female fire fighters or dirt bike racers, and there still aren't anywhere near as many women as men (although I like to think a lot of the faces are actually gender neutral), you can't look at any female minifigs in the last few years and say their jobs were not equivalent to those of the men.

'Friends' isn't so much a step in the wrong direction as it is a failure to step far enough in the right direction, and 'City' is making visible steps towards equality.

Edited December 27, 2011 by David Thomsen

[lightningtiger]

Does this topic need to be merged with the one over in the Town Forum.....moderator contact time I guess !

I'll go and check out that link plus the Friend's website too !

Edit - I actually hunted down this website......My link

Should we leave our comments there too ?

Edited December 27, 2011 by lightningtiger

[Kryne]

I dont find the actual sets overly pink looking at the sets, and so far my 5yo daughters favourite sets are the modular fire brigage and the newest harbour. If they sell they sell if not we can download the instructions and reproduce with the colours we want.

[lightningtiger]

I dont find the actual sets overly pink looking at the sets, and so far my 5yo daughters favourite sets are the modular fire brigage and the newest harbour. If they sell they sell if not we can download the instructions and reproduce with the colours we want.

Spot on, I'll be doing that for the vet clinic and cafe for sure !

It takes a parent to know what his/her child/children like or dislike......everyone is different.

[Siegfried]

Hey EB, I created a blog to compile the online activities of a feminist group vilifying TLG because of the new Friends line (which, btw, the Friends theme site went live today on Friends.LEGO.com)

Sorry, to avoid duplicate discussion and cross topic debate I've merged your topic.

[David Thomsen]

Should we leave our comments there too ?

Eh, it's usually best to leave this kind of website alone, they're not interested in discussion or debate. I mean look at this comment:

That’s fine Lego, I will now never buy any of your products again. My not quite 6 year old has asked for Lego for Christmas because herself and her male friend Kai, and her male cousin Conor, all enjoy playing with it together...

Boycotting ALL of Lego because they disapprove of ONE theme, even when their kids WANT Lego? This is the crowd you'd be trying to reason with.

Edited December 27, 2011 by David Thomsen

[lightningtiger]

Eh, it's usually best to leave this kind of website alone, they're not interested in discussion or debate. I mean look at this comment:

Boycotting ALL of Lego because they disapprove of ONE theme, even when their kids WANT Lego? This is the crowd you'd be trying to reason with.

I guess you are right in one respect, they wouldn't like what we either male or female AFOL would have to say plus they would care less and we would be in the firing line copping the blame or similar.

Actually, people on that website need to grow up, open their eyes, remove their blinkers and not be so narrow minded.

Lego is not to blame for their marketing choice now, it's the media and parents with their narrow mindedness that cause this problem.

[LegoMyMamma]

Sorry, to avoid duplicate discussion and cross topic debate I've merged your topic.

Oh, thank you Siegfried! I had remembered seeing a topic on Friends on EB last week, but when this whole "campaign & petition" of theirs came up, I wasn't sure I should *gum up* this thread

Gary Istok just sent me some of his LEGO History information to upload to the blog -- to provide more information to counter their misinformation.

That should be up soon: Feminists freak out over Friends

Their spamming of the LEGO Group Facebook page is what really motivated me to speak out -- especially on Christmas day! 95% of the spammers merely "liked" the page that day for only the purpose of re-posting the ad & their own manufactured tagline.

----

To: lightningtiger

I do know some AFOLs told me they made comments on the SPARKsummit site, but not sure if the feminists will approve them -- we'll see

To: David Thomsen

LOL -- good point! That's one reason I wanted to present their "skewed" info and counter it on the web.

[Ash]

Why do you assume the female characters from the aforementioned themes are secondary? Personally, they're just as much a part of the team as the males. It's not like the females are bringing the rest food or something on the box art...

A combination of factors including what they're wearing, type (or lack of) accessories and how they are portrayed on the box art. Maybe not "bringing the food" but often relatively passive. Even on the rare occasions when they seem to be a fully fledged team member they're still ridiculously under-represented.

If LEGO is a unisex toy is there any reason why more of the minifigures in something like the new dinosaur line shouldn't be female?

[lightningtiger]

I think a point that hasn't been made yet is, the cafe, vet clinic and beauty salon are being run by the female characters....they are controlling their own destiny right or wrong ?

David made a good point about not commenting there, as they could come over here and spam our beloved website.

Or perhaps a united front against this wave of negativity, I remember once some crack-pot person claimed Barbie dolls were the work of the devil....some people eh ? Let's have the children decided for themselves.....they know what they like and dislike and not a bunch of feminists say what children want because they say so.

[ACWWgal2011]

does anyone know if the building instructions for the friends lines can be found online yet or even a LDD model? I haven't had any luck on the lego customer service instruction area or brickset. The 3065 Olivia's Treehouse set: http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=3065-1 catches my attention, but taking into account that i DON'T support this girl only line, i'd rather make it from parts from my collection. I would try and design something from scratch but i really need a base starting point b4 trying to recreate it and make a few minor alterations to make it minifigure friendly.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ACWWgal2011

[Legoman of War]

This is just like anything else on the Internet. On YouTube, 99% of the comments are either rude, hatefull or vulgar. The sad fact is that the Internet gives people a wall to hide behind, allowing them to hide behind a wall of anonymity. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I thought I'd share my point of view.

Everyone is a tough guy behind a keyboard.

My opinion on this is similar to most. Lego is expanding their target demographic to cater to more girls. Nothing wrongwith it. If you don't like it, don't support it. If enough people don't support it, it won't survive. Simple supply and demand. I would buy it for my daughter if she liked it.

One thing I found interesting in the survey here was that 61% of people that took the survey Don't have children! Funny, It kind of skews the perspective.

LMW

[Gryphon Ink]

On another note, I'm curious that no one has complained when a "stereotypical" boy line is released. There are many Lego themes that have mostly male minifigures holding guns/weapons to fight something. I never saw a huge upset over those sets, why these?

Um, people have complained. In these forums, actually. I remember a couple of cases of parents saying they didn't want their kids playing with all the guns. I remember one who said they never bought any kind of conflict-based toys, and that if they bought a set that had guns or knives in it they took them out.

My parents were a lot like this. As a kid, I never had toy guns or anything that resembled realistic modern weapons. Fantasy and science fiction weaponry was okay, but not encouraged.

When people with this kind of opinion speak up here, the inevitable response is complete, brutal mockery. Because we have been conditioned to believe that guns are normal things for boys to play with.

[lightningtiger]

Here is a neat little story to warm the hearts of Lego City fans, I was buying some parts for my new bank design yesterday and another dad was there buying a few road plates and plant pieces for his children....they were with him......neither of his two girls had heard about Friend's but were interested.....the youngest the dad said loved building the police station on her own. By the looks of it, for some girls.....Friend's might co-exist with their City sets.

You don't need any more proof about Lego being a unisex toy, those girls were dressed similar to the way the Friend's characters are dressed but were into City sets.

I say, bite on that feminists, I've said it before....let the children decide what they want to play with.

[brickie]

During the last school holiday, the 4 grand kids wanted to build a castle. It took all day but when they went to their homes that night, they were all happy with the Bat Lord castle.

The next time the girls came over, they proceeded to decorate the castle with lots of beds, flowers, stoves, refrigerator, jewels and anything that went in the interior. In fact, any pink brick was dragged out of storage and used as was anything 'Belville' like. Quite a few of Bat Lord's soldiers were turned into girls by a new head and hair.

A few days later, the grandson saw this, played with it for a while and then proceeded to raid my pirate ships so the castle could have more cannons and soldiers.

The next time they were all together, the 4 of they played for an hour happily together, each in their own world of fantasy.

As the French would say, "Viva la difference".

[SilvaShado]

During the last school holiday, the 4 grand kids wanted to build a castle. It took all day but when they went to their homes that night, they were all happy with the Bat Lord castle.

The next time the girls came over, they proceeded to decorate the castle with lots of beds, flowers, stoves, refrigerator, jewels and anything that went in the interior. In fact, any pink brick was dragged out of storage and used as was anything 'Belville' like. Quite a few of Bat Lord's soldiers were turned into girls by a new head and hair.

A few days later, the grandson saw this, played with it for a while and then proceeded to raid my pirate ships so the castle could have more cannons and soldiers.

The next time they were all together, the 4 of they played for an hour happily together, each in their own world of fantasy.

As the French would say, "Viva la difference".

That's a great story and really shows that we should let kids be kids. Let their imaginations run free. Not tie them to one color or a theme. Reminds of the little girl tirade on You Tube.