Ricecracker Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Well it's taken me long enough to post in here... Thanks again to Pandy and Rufus for hosting. I really loved the presentation and jokes you included, and I tried to follow along as much as possible after I was killed. Hopefully you guys will host another game in the future that I'll actually be able to play.
Hinckley Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Well it's taken me long enough to post in here... Thanks again to Pandy and Rufus for hosting. I really loved the presentation and jokes you included, and I tried to follow along as much as possible after I was killed. Hopefully you guys will host another game in the future that I'll actually be able to play. Speak up next time.
Ricecracker Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Speak up next time. This game I was actually planning on participating more, and I even made a spreadsheet. Figures.
Hinckley Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 This game I was actually planning on participating more, and I even made a spreadsheet. Figures. The PM I got from Ricecracker simply said "You megabluck."
XimenaPaulina Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Kiel, sorry I suspected you so much and we never really got to play together in this one. I'm glad you were on the Town's side. Nah it's ok. I admit I was relatively inactive during the first few days due to some busy real-life stuff, and I understand that made me you and the others very suspicious of me. One thing that I was really curious about up to this point is how did many (11, 13?) people easily trusted you with their info on the first day. Was I being too unnecessarily over-cautious or did I do the right thing of not trusting you easily? Of course the immediate trust and vital info that the real townies gave you on those early stages of the game were extremely instrumental to the eventual victory of the Town, but I don't think I could ever find myself trusting someone that easily on the first few days. Did I do the right thing or not? At the very least I wasn't alone on that aspect since I remember Sandy, JimB, and Bob not trusting you also at that point.
Hinckley Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Nah it's ok. I admit I was relatively inactive during the first few days due to some busy real-life stuff, and I understand that made me you and the others very suspicious of me. One thing that I was really curious about up to this point is how did many (11, 13?) people easily trusted you with their info on the first day. Was I being too unnecessarily over-cautious or did I do the right thing of not trusting you easily? Of course the immediate trust and vital info that the real townies gave you on those early stages of the game were extremely instrumental to the eventual victory of the Town, but I don't think I could ever find myself trusting someone that easily on the first few days. Did I do the right thing or not? At the very least I wasn't alone on that aspect since I remember Sandy, JimB, and Bob not trusting you also at that point. I fudged the numbers and made up some roles, of course. Well, maybe I only made up one, but I told some people that three of them were made up. I am curious too why so many people found me trustworthy. I think my frantic un-voting and re-voting was somehow seen as pro-Town. The Easter Eggs proved I knew the structure of the two types of town role PMs. For those who have no idea what the Easter Eggs were I said something like: Everyone listen! That's in the bold blue color of the Virgin word in the Virgin PM. One virgin, I think it was fhomess, PMed me to point out that def and Kiel had done the same thing previously. The other Easter Egg was, while postulating that all vanilla Campies were Virgins, I told people that: You can't have a nocturnal skill if you've shown skill nocturnally. Which was a rewording of the Campie Action PMs that said: Your night action (Because you've had action at night before ) or something like that. I half expected a penalty vote. But Wuntin, Waterbrick Down and Eskallon all claimed to me so that we wouldn't lynch them. The Easter Eggs didn't help so much unless I was trying to verify the others. Foog verified somehow. I forget how he did it. So, it wasn't really an advantage. Some of the noobs came by and said "Is everyone claiming to you? Should I trust you?" I tell them not to trust me until they had reason to. But through conversation I could tell most of them were sincere. I had a lot of conversations going with people where they took their time to trust me and claim, which took about 8 days, which was only 2 game days. Zepher was real stand-offish for a while. Obviously, JimB didn't like the idea of people claiming to me. ADHO came around pretty quick at the beginning. I know Fangy in real life so we can tell when the other is lying, so we started working together right away. My default mode is talking to Cornelius Murdock, Fugazi and Rick, so unfortunately we had a group PM about 5 minutes after we started. Kiel was in there too, but we decided he was suspicious. As questionable as the Easter Eggs were, they weren't quite as well utilized as it might seem. And Cecilie, one of my closest allies, didn't claim to me until TPRU made the fake investigator claim. I'm glad I never spilled to him what I was spilling to Foog. But, I really did want to tell TPRU everything just to take a load off of my brain. A veteran player and firend is the investigator? Hooray! But, I was paranoid enough to wait until night. So glad I did. Hell, I even tried to approach Sandy the same way I did the others and he thought I was Scum "pressuring" him to claim. I was relieved when we finally started working together. He doesn't like not knowing things so it's usually a struggle to share information at first. But I'm glad he made it into the Order of the Penis and helped the Town to victory. And protected Schnookums too!! So, that's how I saw it. I would love to hear from others what made them trust me. That way I can play Scum better in the future.
Pandora Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 I half expected a penalty vote. We debated, at length, whether you should have received a penalty vote. The difficulty was that we didn't actually know what you'd done behind the scenes, and then perhaps more importantly we didn't want to confirm you were correct by giving you a penalty. The best solution, we thought, was what we did by posting the role PMs at the beginning of Day Two. Another aspect of this that I will be wary of next time is my own use of idiom. I think you were also able to identify those stories that sounded like either of us might write, simply because you know both of us so well. I even remember the scum trying to come up with fake claims that might sound as though we had written them - Foog really had the best shot at that as he knows us well too, and that perhaps made some of the false claims more believable than others. I shall try to use less flowery language next time. Oh, and I really did name the Snake Charmer's snake Nancy, which you totally pooh-poohed!
Hinckley Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 We debated, at length, whether you should have received a penalty vote. The difficulty was that we didn't actually know what you'd done behind the scenes, and then perhaps more importantly we didn't want to confirm you were correct by giving you a penalty. The best solution, we thought, was what we did by posting the role PMs at the beginning of Day Two. Another aspect of this that I will be wary of next time is my own use of idiom. I think you were also able to identify those stories that sounded like either of us might write, simply because you know both of us so well. I even remember the scum trying to come up with fake claims that might sound as though we had written them - Foog really had the best shot at that as he knows us well too, and that perhaps made some of the false claims more believable than others. I shall try to use less flowery language next time. Oh, and I really did name the Snake Charmer's snake Nancy, which you totally pooh-poohed! Yes, boo to Nancy the snake, but hooray for the Cherrinator. When Eskallon came to me with that and I had to explain it to him, I knew he was legit Campie. It reeked of Pandufus. Nancy the Snake? I guess I can see the humor now, but coming from Pie? Booo!!!! Perhaps Richard the Snake is too crude and obvious for the flowery prose of Pandora. Shows what I know. That did make me a little suspicious of Foog because he said it was a normal name and role description. Our blocker even gave people the shits, so I found that a little tough to believe. But Fangy and ADHO claimed to have more normal descriptions too so I thought you had already thought of the idiots idioms. But, good call. Your particular language and humor did make certain roles easily verifiable.
Pandora Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps Richard the Snake is too crude and obvious for the flowery prose of Pandora. Shows what I know. .... Our blocker even gave people the shits, so I found that a little tough to believe. So you would have believed a reference to trouser-snakes (and there was reference to Melaena playing "hide the snake" in the conclusion story) but not that we might have someone spend the night on the toilet with food-poisoning?? Oh, and Zepher was one of many (including Hinck and ADHO15) who made their night action request PMs really funny. I looked forward to hearing how he planned to block each person with his character's poor personal hygiene.
Rufus Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Oh, and Zepher was one of many (including Hinck and ADHO15) who made their night action request PMs really funny. Don't forget Cornelius's and Sandy's Cherrinator requests
CorneliusMurdock Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Don't forget Cornelius's and Sandy's Cherrinator requests William just knows how to romance a lady.
ADHO15 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 You were really fun to play with too. I would get messages and think "This guy is fun and smart." And when we had to suspect each other, it was oddly quick. "You're Scum." "No, you're Scum." "No, I'm not." "You're not? Neither am I." "Ok, what's next then?" Really it was the description of being blocked that got you right off the hook but you were another excellent ally to have. Thank you very much, Hinck, you were too. I was convinced in Bloodbricks I that you were Scum, when you were actually Town, so I tried to be more trusting this time around and it paid off. Thanks for all your help. Oh, and Zepher was one of many (including Hinck and ADHO15) who made their night action request PMs really funny. I looked forward to hearing how he planned to block each person with his character's poor personal hygiene. I thought mine were mostly pretty boring really, but thanks. And thanks a lot for the new title, whichever one of you did that.
Fugazi Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 The Easter Eggs proved I knew the structure of the two types of town role PMs. This was very clever, and proves as we discussed recently that role PMs should be as plain as possible, without any information that could help resourceful townies abuse circumvent the rules! Perhaps it didn't make any difference in this game, but it's probably something that future hosts should keep in mind for the sake of fairness. So, that's how I saw it. I would love to hear from others what made them trust me. Of course! For me, it was not the vote switching but rather the verbal sparring with def that made me trust you. No scum in their right mind would put on such a show on Day 1 that would be sure to attract the attention of the investigator. Of course when the strange results of those who targeted you at night came back it only made you look townier and at that point I was quite confident that you couldn't be scum. Perhaps Richard the Snake is too crude and obvious for the flowery prose of Pandora. Shows what I know. That did make me a little suspicious of Foog because he said it was a normal name and role description. Did I really say that?
def Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 This was very clever, and proves as we discussed recently that role PMs should be as plain as possible, without any information that could help resourceful townies abuse circumvent the rules! Perhaps it didn't make any difference in this game, but it's probably something that future hosts should keep in mind for the sake of fairness. Some hosts try to word every role a little differently, but I've tried it, and it's a hell of a lot of work. I've played a few games where the role PMs were posted in the day one thread, and I think it was good it was done here on day two. I realize the hosts wanted a surprise for players, but there were somewhat unfair advantages to town with it being not in the open. Besides the "Easter Egg" thing, I was for all intents and purposes cleared by the host when the roles were posted (except with Zepher, because he was using the other logic) showing that scum didn't know the term "Virgin." I'm sure there could be some possibility that it could have worked for scum, but I don't see how. I did something similar during the Forest game, where I knew I was working for "the Baker" (since that was part of town power roles) and asked a handful of players about their connection to the baker. After I got very politely asked if I was using the role PM to my advantage by Dragonator, I stopped. I hadn't considered it like that, but I saw it, and I haven't followed that strategy since, and ignored my Easter Egg this time around. I also tried to keep it simple when making Bloodbrick II, where everyone got the same role info, and the scum got a summarized one for the town. Posting the roles up front is a good way to solve the problem though, if there are no secret twists.
Rick Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Posting the roles up front is a good way to solve the problem though, if there are no secret twists. Agreed. The scum should be able to credibly claim. But I understand the hosts wanted to keep the exact win conditions a secret for both the town and the scum this time.
Rufus Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 This was very clever, and proves as we discussed recently that role PMs should be as plain as possible, without any information that could help resourceful townies abuse circumvent the rules! Perhaps it didn't make any difference in this game, but it's probably something that future hosts should keep in mind for the sake of fairness. Some hosts try to word every role a little differently, but I've tried it, and it's a hell of a lot of work. I've played a few games where the role PMs were posted in the day one thread, and I think it was good it was done here on day two. I realize the hosts wanted a surprise for players, but there were somewhat unfair advantages to town with it being not in the open. Besides the "Easter Egg" thing, I was for all intents and purposes cleared by the host when the roles were posted (except with Zepher, because he was using the other logic) showing that scum didn't know the term "Virgin." I'm sure there could be some possibility that it could have worked for scum, but I don't see how. Agreed. The scum should be able to credibly claim. But I understand the hosts wanted to keep the exact win conditions a secret for both the town and the scum this time. It was a risk we took in this game, knowing the possible consequences. It's very hard to judge in advance what might become an 'Easter Egg'; originally, only the Virgins had a in their role PM, but we saw how that could be used to confirm them, so added one in to all factions. If it hadn't been a 'surprise' new game concept, we could have been entirely open from the start... though it's amazing what seemingly irrelevant detail can get pounced upon
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