def Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Yes, but apparently he'd asked both you and Ichi for advice, She didn't ask me for advice, she simply roleclaimed to me. I don't know what went on with Ichi beyond what's been publicly stated.
CMP Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 She didn't ask me for advice, she simply roleclaimed to me. I don't know what went on with Ichi beyond what's been publicly stated. Generally when people roleclaim to try to save themselves they're trying to figure out what to do by getting advice. Ichi gave the advice to not roleclaim until a certain point in time, but I supposed I assumed you would give some sort of it too.
def Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Generally when people roleclaim to try to save themselves they're trying to figure out what to do by getting advice. Ichi gave the advice to not roleclaim until a certain point in time, but I supposed I assumed you would give some sort of it too. Or they're hoping to get someone to save their skin. Regardless, the message was only, "I'm the role cop," so we may as well describe it as it was. For that matter, when Catwoman roleclaimed to the Creeper, they weren't hoping for advice either, but simply for someone to help get the heat off
TheBoyWonder Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I am puzzled. I roleclaim,, and I have most of the people voting me. Let me live til tonight. I can waste a scum move.
Brickdoctor Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Except that's not the way scum work. They get a lot of coaching. An inexperienced scum would get advice on their role claim, and when to make it. I think when the heat was put on them, they would be consulting their group from then on. Yasu-chan's behavior is that of a loose cannon. That assumes that if Yasu was Scum, she asked for advice and payed attention to it before she acted. Speaking from experience from a past situation, sometimes Scum feel the pressure and they decide that the best thing to do would be to hurry up and say the best thing they can think of off the top of their heads. I realize what a big risk it is to lynch someone who claims a power role. However, Today, what I've seen from Yasu's defense is this: Oh no! I'm being accused! Let's see if I can get people to drop by repeating what Hanako said: technically this can't be used against me. It's not working! I know! I'll avoid the accusation and see if it goes away! I can't think of anything to say on my own! Uh, MegaBloks. Okay, let's see...I'll repeat something Norio said would be a plausible explanation. No! It's still not working! I'll roleclaim! Lots of people I've seen in past situations did that to avoid a lynch! She's done nothing but repeat what someone else has said, repeat what someone else has done in past situations, and avoid the questions. It seems a lot like she tried to get away by avoiding things, and then used a variant of acting like a Templie after being told what a Templie should act like. And again, the timing of the third thing listed above makes me think that she's just making up different reasons instead of coming out and saying them in the first place, so that makes me think that there's a good chance that she just made up the roleclaim. I know that I'm gambling a lot when I vote for Yasu, but her actions have made me think that she's lying. Sometimes you just can't play it safe. It's a risk that I'm willing to take.
TheBoyWonder Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 But, if I had roleclaimed later, you would not of believed me. If I had done a good defence, I still would of been lynched. What can I do Emi? As far as I can see, You seem to think nothing could save me,
def Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I am puzzled. I roleclaim,, and I have most of the people voting me. Let me live til tonight. I can waste a scum move. Sorry, I've made a mistake. This is, as others have said, not a defense. You don't let someone live in order to waste a scum move. It's a reason not to lynch someone claiming a role. We can't guarantee what scum will do. If all this is simply due to inexperience, at the very least, someone will have learned a lesson. Your own defense can't be simply paraphrasing what someone else has said (this being one instance, and the second being the claim that it was a joke) Unvote: Chizuko (Pie) Vote: Yasu (Boy Wonder) A true townie is always true and speaks from the heart, and don't need to try so hard
Fred Daniel Yam Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I am puzzled. I roleclaim,, and I have most of the people voting me. Let me live til tonight. I can waste a scum move. My naive wife, the scum won't give you a chance. The numbers are against you, and they may put one of 'em fancy blockers on you.
Brickdoctor Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 But, if I had roleclaimed later, you would not of believed me. If I had done a good defence, I still would of been lynched. What can I do Emi? As far as I can see, You seem to think nothing could save me, Not at this point, no. But if you had made a good defense, you would not have been lynched. Norio pointed out that you could've been joking. That was a very plausible explanation, and I would have accepted it. But then, you went and tried to get out on a technicality, and then you tried to ignore the accusations. That tells me that you really weren't joking, because if you were, you would have just said that in your first post. That you went and said it after all the technicalities and ignoring makes me think that you decided to repeat what Norio said only after it became clear that technicalities and ignoring accusations couldn't save you. It tells me that it was never the real reason in the first place, and that you're making up or repeating what other people say when your previous attempt to defend yourself fails. I see no other reason why you would have waited as long as you did to say that you were joking. I'm pretty much convinced that you were lying when you said that it was a joke, which makes me suspect that your roleclaim is a lie as well.
def Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I know that I'm gambling a lot when I vote for Yasu, but her actions have made me think that she's lying. Sometimes you just can't play it safe. It's a risk that I'm willing to take. No worries, I'm with you at this point. If she is scum, we'll have a lot to look at tomorrow
Rick Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 That's a very good point. From what I've seen, Yasu is acting very erratically, and it seems to me that it's very possible her scummy buddies are whispering in her ear. "Claim role-cop, it's a safe claim for scum". Even if she isn't scum, she is a danger to the town. If she spilled her role right away, who's to say she won't use her night action poorly, or possibly even reveal the results at the wrong time and to the wrong people. It would also take a night or more to verify her claims, which detracts from other usage of night actions (e.g. focusing in on one person, directing night actions are just what the scum want), as well as taking the risk that she'll be killed anyway. Role cop certainly isn't the most convenient claim for a scum to make, unless as my dear mother already pointed out, she's a scum role cop, which could well be the case. Furthermore, the role cop isn't as nearly as useful as a normal cop - it itself could be a role on either side, and just as easily screw over the vigilante as eliminating the scum killer. In any case, it's an easy thing to claim - a role that's unlikely to actually be in a game (though I do accept that it's possible, given out quantity here), one that somebody could prove easily, and most importantly, I believe Yasu is the only suspect worth voting for today. I don't think it's that easy a claim at all. Snake charmer would be much more convenient. She's done nothing but repeat what someone else has said, repeat what someone else has done in past situations, and avoid the questions. It seems a lot like she tried to get away by avoiding things, and then used a variant of acting like a Templie after being told what a Templie should act like. And again, the timing of the third thing listed above makes me think that she's just making up different reasons instead of coming out and saying them in the first place, so that makes me think that there's a good chance that she just made up the roleclaim. She's not helpful at all. She's not even helping herself survive. But if she really were scum, I would expect some more sense to come out of her by now. There should be someone on the mutineers' side who's able to help her. Or, the scum already decided to sacrifice her, which, given the current situation, I would completely understand. If that's the case, we should be looking at people initially defending her. Maybe there is something to be learned from lynching her after all. Except that's not the way scum work. They get a lot of coaching. An inexperienced scum would get advice on their role claim, and when to make it. I think when the heat was put on them, they would be consulting their group from then on. Yasu-chan's behavior is that of a loose cannon. Sorry, I've made a mistake. This is, as others have said, not a defense. I don't really see how her response changes your earlier assessment of her. It's just more nonsense. What were you expecting?
fhomess Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I'm really frustrated that Yasu hasn't been able to come up with a better defense here. I'm tired from going through all that's been said and will come to a conclusion on a vote after some rest. I really don't want to lose our role cop if that's what Yasu really is, but I may not mourn Yasu's loss too much given what she's shown today anyway. Yasu has enough votes for now, so after my rest I'll come back and review again to see if there's anyone else worth pointing the finger at even if it only is to help move us forward in the days to come.
WhiteFang Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I am puzzled. I roleclaim,, and I have most of the people voting me. Let me live til tonight. I can waste a scum move. You still don't get it, do you? I was hesitant of voting for you but you are not helping out by being truthful and sincere in your words... No doubt you might be inexperienced, but at least you can try and arrange and put a proper case across to us with the findings. Slip-short defensive statements like that above, is not going to help at all... Vote: Yasu (Boy Wonder)
def Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I don't really see how her response changes your earlier assessment of her. It's just more nonsense. What were you expecting? This plus her responses in private have told me that her story is implausible, and that even if she survives, I worry she may be a hindrance to town. I've sent you the details, so hopefully that is a satisfactory explanation
Eskallon Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I do play risky. Apologies, my mistake. I decided not to clutter this post up with your other quotes, but your defence is very limiting and everything you say screams out inexperience and stupidity. Except that's not the way scum work. They get a lot of coaching. An inexperienced scum would get advice on their role claim, and when to make it. I think when the heat was put on them, they would be consulting their group from then on. Yasu-chan's behavior is that of a loose cannon. Actually, I have my own theory. Yasu is inexperienced and while contacting the scum and waiting for replies goes ahead and tries to slightly defend herself. Someone mentions role claiming in the scum write board or pm or wherever and she jumps the gun and picks a role to role-claim. So inexperience might still be the reason she is doing all this, her inexperience is showing her scumminess right in front of us. I am puzzled. I roleclaim,, and I have most of the people voting me. Let me live til tonight. I can waste a scum move. No, but your defence was so stupid if a defence at all, your role claim was a few words and that was it and you generally have said crap today which hasn't helped. This is a game of life and if we are going to have to deal with you being there wasting our time, scum or not, your better off dead. I only hope you can learn from this experience and try again in another game. But since I do think you are scum from everything I have said above: Vote: Yasu (Boy Wonder)
badboytje88 Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Votes so far: Yasu - TheBoyWonder (9): Capt.Redblade, Brickdoctor, Yasuko, Shizuko, Zakura, Jimbutcher, Nightshroud99, VolcanicPanic, Bob Shizuko - CallMePieOrDie (1): Def Edited February 22, 2012 by badboytje88
WhiteFang Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Since my name wasn't mentioned above, as I didn't quote the full name. I will attempt to re-vote again. Unvote: Yasu (Boy Wonder) Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)
def Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Votes so far: Yasu - TheBoyWonder (9): Capt.Redblade, Brickdoctor, Yasuko, Shizuko, Zakura, Jimbutcher, Nightshroud99, VolcanicPanic, Bob Shizuko - CallMePieOrDie (1): Def I unvoted Pie and voted Yasu.
Cecilie Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I can see the votes are piling up against Yasu despite of her role claim, and frankly, I'm not surprised, given her behaviour and lousy defense today . As has been mentioned earlier, I'm afraid that if she's actually telling the truth, and is the town role cop, that she'll spill her results to the wrong people and actually hinder us more than help us, so I'm inclined to vote for her as well. A role cop isn't the most important role for town anyway. This plus her responses in private have told me that her story is implausible, and that even if she survives, I worry she may be a hindrance to town. I've sent you the details, so hopefully that is a satisfactory explanation Interesting, care to share this with the rest of us? If you have information that can put the nail in her coffin, I'd like to hear it too.
Scubacarrot Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Right, I catched up. This is a bit messed up, so many people are just voting for Yasu, without even explaining themselves, even before the last 'defense'. Don't get me wrong, I too, think Yasu is the most likely lynch target for today, but this 'bandwagon' is a great place to hide for the scum, regardless of tomorrow's result. I would much rather see her busted/cleared with night actions, but people are right, you can bet there will be frames and blocks and whatever on Yasu... So yes, we are voting out a potential role-cop, which could very well be scum, to be fair. I am still a bit hesitant to vote for Yasu, but at this point, my vote is not going to matter, so yeah...
badboytje88 Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 Votes so far: Yasu - TheBoyWonder(11): Capt.Redblade, Brickdoctor, Yasuko, Shizuko, Zakura, Jimbutcher, Nightshroud99, VolcanicPanic, Bob, Def, Whitefang \
MetroiD Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 * rant on I find it hugely disappointing that almost 2/3 of the Day have now been spent discussing game mechanics, metagaming behaviour, etc. So let me just join you guys here for a second. Are we in a Mafia discussion thread, or are we actually playing a game? To be honest, I also find all that stuff that's being said and commented rather boring too. If you want to base your actions on a rulebook, your previous experience, your predisposions against someone - that's all fine. But at least try to come up with a plausible way for it to sound a bit in game, for Shinto-heaven's sake! It seems like most of you just can't be bothered to try and play this game. The rules actually do clearly state - "do not post out of character inside the thread" - but I haven't seen too much posting in-character for the last umpteen pages. Regrettably, I was even called out in private earlier today for apparently "role-playing too much". Well, I'm sorry for actually trying to work with the little that Grandfather has given us in terms of character bio and background story. Apparently, there's not too many out there who care to even memorize the names and genders of the characters in their immediate families, so I guess you could say I'm merely trying to even out the scales a bit. * rant off Following up on my observations above, I'll share with you my thoughts once again, even though I've done it on multiple occasions today and I've tried to be as precise as possible. I am also very much against Yasu, and that rift between us was opened when she started her participation during our discussions in the Temple. It grew into a chasm after our personal exchange, in which she came off as scummy as possible, and my fears were only confirmed by her childish and stupid behaviour later on: "I've got a very powerful role, oooh! You can't kill me, I can be veeeery useful! Let the mind games begin!" What mind games?! Also, what "power" role? Even the greatest of roles is lost in the hands of a person who can obviously not do one smart thing and instead yaks on endlessly, while not saying anything at the same time. Given, that right there is a talent in itself, but so is Yasu's capability of not even following up on the cohesive instructions that she no doubt has received from someone. And even if that is not the case, how would you expect us to base our moves on the findings of a person who has on numerous occasions proven that they are simply untrustworthy and not fit to do anything right!? Another question which has been creeping through my mind all day - why would my own first-born son take so much time to defend said person in private and in public, when it's obvious to each and every one of us that if ever there was a calculated risk that should be taken for the good of the whole Family, this is it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - even if Yasu turns out to be an innocent member of this family with the role she claimed, I will not regret my move and my decision to vote against her. I know I wouldn't trust Yasu even if she were to stay alive and confirmed as having the role she claimed. Better to have sane, strong-willed and quick-witted vanilla Yakuza family members, than ranting and utterly useless "power players". Her demise and revealed allegiance will be instrumental in helping us determine a lot of things about the Family members who have been defending her quite 'fervently'. Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)
swils Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Tired and exhausted from a long day of training with Chieko, Maniko follows her teacher into the main room. She continues to walk with Chieko, allowing herself to be informed of the mess Yasu seemed to have been causing today, among other events. "Chiekosama, all of this talk of roles and claims, and novels of old, it all seems so abstract! Can no one address the day's events as they are, rather than analyzing them as if we were in a history lesson? A great tragedy may yet befall us, but we are content to bicker and nitpick over ancient texts? Why, mistress? Despite being a woman of charity, Yasu-san has wedged herself firmly into the middle of this ugly mess. The unnecessary attention when tensions were high, inviting manipulation from those who seek to dismantle this family... I can not say that I am eager to see her go, but all of this confusion could have so easily been avoided, it seems such a pointless mess, especially if she truly had nothing to hide! Why, I have been busy with your tutelage all day, mistress, though neither of us managed to get ourselves in such trouble! We may be damning one of our own, but at this point, I fear that Yasu-san will only be a tool for those bent against us, whether she wishes to be or not. It is with a heavy heart that I..." Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder) With that, Maniko excuses herself from the room, retreating to her quarters for the evening to meditate and reflect upon what had transpired. She grimly looked towards the morning, when she would return to the gathering, her luck permitting.
iamded Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Y'know, I bet if we let Yasu go for today, and tracked/watched/investigated her tonight, the scum wouldn't even touch her. They wouldn't risk being caught targeting her, so they'd choose someone else entirely. Not that there's much chance of her getting out of this vote now. She's acted too sloppily and I don't see a majority voting for an alternative that hasn't even presented itself. I'm sure if I vote now it will be seen as 'going along with the crowd', but we all have reason to vote for her now. Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)
Rufus Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 On balance, I think Yasu is most likely scum. She probably is a role cop, or at least on a team with someone else who is. Her attempts at defense look sloppy to me; I think she was coached, but took it on herself to roleclaim too early. It's possible she is just a clueless townie, but I'd rather risk losing a clueless townie who isn't likely to put her role to effective use, than to keep a suspected scum around in the game for the extra days it will require to confirm her. Moreover - and more importantly - lynching her will give us valuable information about the people who have been arguing against her lynch. Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)
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