Yakuza Family - Day 1

[Etzel]

Alright, now that I have read up listened to the day's events, I must say I am rather alerted. Yasu does seem rather foolish, but it would seem that there is a ring of truth to his words.

However. We must consider what else this could mean. A logical Scum would have Yasu deleted, no? I mean, a key program like him would be a danger to their projects. A known danger. However, if he survives the night, than perhaps this means he is Scum, as they would have reason to keep him alive. Of course, there are a few variables in this equation, such as protecters, vigilantes, and so on. But at the core, it is logical. I think.

How many gender confused family members do we got really?

[Scubacarrot]

That's a Role Cop. That's what Yasu-chan is.

That's what Yasu-chan CLAIMS.

[Tamamono]

That's what Yasu-chan CLAIMS.

Yes, sorry, I misspoke. I've always had a tendency to believe roleclaims.

[MetroiD]

That's a Role Cop. That's what Yasu-chan is.

Claims she is. Take nothing for granted, my son - ever.

I am bewildered by the numerous attempts to drive attention away from Yasu and towards some of the more silent members of our Family. While such a behaviour is indeed suspicious, especially considering that one could get away with it easily due to the sheer amount of people present in this Temple, I still believe that we have more pressing issues that need our complete focus, my dear children. Issues that are substantiated by what has been said throughout this day, as opposed to what has not.

[Brickdoctor]

Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding, Emi-chan. I don't see much of a better option either, but there are plenty of lurkers around for us to lynch I guess.

It was my fault, really. Looking back, my statement didn't make much sense.

There are a couple others who's actions other than lurking are a bit suspicious, but none are suspicious enough to warrant a lynch in my eyes, so I'm not sure if I should present what I have at this point.

However. We must consider what else this could mean. A logical Scum would have Yasu deleted, no? I mean, a key program like him would be a danger to their projects. A known danger. However, if he survives the night, than perhaps this means he is Scum, as they would have reason to keep him alive. Of course, there are a few variables in this equation, such as protecters, vigilantes, and so on. But at the core, it is logical. I think.

There are many ways for Yasu to survive the Night. Actually, speaking as someone who has been Scum in multiple past situations, I think it would be likely for her to survive. The Scum want her gone, but they also know that's it's obvious that the Scum will want her gone. They know that the Town will want to get a chance to verify her, so they know that the Town will be likely to protect and investigate her. The Scum won't want to risk wasting a kill, so they won't try to kill her. Instead, they'll kill someone else who probably won't be protected (on Night 1, that'll probably be a metagame kill based on past situations) and block Yasu to make sure she can't use her action.

Yes, sorry, I misspoke. I've always had a tendency to believe roleclaims.

Sort of a gut felling, eh?

[fhomess]

I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Yasu is Scum, but I still suspect that she is, and even after the role claim, I don't see a better option for the lynch.

I think you're correct that Yasu hasn't done a lot to convince us she's not scum based on her behavior, but I would think that an early role claim should be worth an investigation and one night spared from the lynch. I tend to agree that she probably was the leading lynch candidate in a lot of minds before the role claim, and with just one unvote available, I can appreciate to some extent the fact that I have now been given more (potentially false) information from which to decide if I want to risk my vote on her.

I'll assume for now that her role claim is accurate as a false role claim could be proven false even faster. Then the question is just if she's scum or not.

If we let her live, the worst case scenario is that she's scum and investigated as not-scum. That could be because of a faulty investigator or a framer, but that's the worst case scenario. In that scenario, she would invariably be forced to help piece together a pro-Yakuza core as she would have to reveal accurate results of her night action. I would think that by this point, the Yakuza core that develops would be rather reluctant to let her in on many of their real secrets.

The next-worst case scenario is that she's not scum but investigated as scum or killed outright. The kill would be pretty bad for us, but it would accomplish the same as a lynch today.

If she's scum and investigated as scum, we'll know what to do tomorrow.

I'm willing to live with these options and look at someone else. I'm not keen on risking a role cop at this point.

[Tamamono]

Claims she is. Take nothing for granted, my son - ever.

Yes, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. I'm sorry, Father.

I am bewildered by the numerous attempts to drive attention away from Yasu and towards some of the more silent members of our Family. While such a behaviour is indeed suspicious, especially considering that one could get away with it easily due to the sheer amount of people present in this Temple, I still believe that we have more pressing issues that need our complete focus, my dear children. Issues that are substantiated by what has been said throughout this day, as opposed to what has not.

Well, that's because there aren't very many good options for lynching today. I would be more than happy to get Yasu-chan and her reckless ways out of the Temple, but she claims an important role, and I'm not about to just ignore that. She could be a scum role cop, she could be a scum goon (or whatever) claiming role cop because she's isn't very experienced, but the truth is the argument of her being scum is more of a long shot than the argument of her being town.

There are many ways for Yasu to survive the Night. Actually, speaking as someone who has been Scum in multiple past situations, I think it would be likely for her to survive. The Scum want her gone, but they also know that's it's obvious that the Scum will want her gone. They know that the Town will want to get a chance to verify her, so they know that the Town will be likely to protect and investigate her. The Scum won't want to risk wasting a kill, so they won't try to kill her. Instead, they'll kill someone else who probably won't be protected (on Night 1, that'll probably be a metagame kill based on past situations) and block Yasu to make sure she can't use her action.

I have to agree. Yasu-chan will probably survive the night, and that's why I said to plant a watcher on her - so the scum won't go blocking her.

Sort of a gut felling, eh?

[fhomess]

There are many ways for Yasu to survive the Night. Actually, speaking as someone who has been Scum in multiple past situations, I think it would be likely for her to survive. The Scum want her gone, but they also know that's it's obvious that the Scum will want her gone. They know that the Town will want to get a chance to verify her, so they know that the Town will be likely to protect and investigate her. The Scum won't want to risk wasting a kill, so they won't try to kill her. Instead, they'll kill someone else who probably won't be protected (on Night 1, that'll probably be a metagame kill based on past situations) and block Yasu to make sure she can't use her action.

This makes a lot of sense to me except the last part about blocking her would contradict the part about staying away from her. A watcher on her would probably be excessive, but I doubt scum would take the chance.

[Brickdoctor]

I have to agree. Yasu-chan will probably survive the night, and that's why I said to plant a watcher on her - so the scum won't go blocking her.

Ah, yes. I forgot about the Watcher. I'm not sure if that isn't too many roles concentrated on one person, giving the Scum more to play with as far as other targets are concerned, but I suppose there isn't really a better option.

[def]

Sorry, I only have a brief few minutes to contribute my two yen.

Again, you fail to actually present a good defense.

As has been said, there is no real day one defense. Except role claiming.

You "forgot most lynches due to silence happen on late day 1"? That's nonsence. You either are aware of the fact or you are not, but you can't forget it.

Most day one lynches are not due to silence. Whoever claimed that was a fact?

Ahh, I kind of liked Scum or Dumb, it has a nice jingle to it.

As I said, let's start things off on the right foot, without such harsh words

And again... You don't really think someone is scum, yet you're willing to lynch that person? Or isn't that what you're suggesting?

I would agree, these things said are worth noting, uncharacteristic of true Yakuza.

Once you've slipped up it's hard to get back up again, especially on Day One when there's no other real suspects. I haven't come up with much in catching up with the day, but I'm going to give it time. I don't want to waste my one unvote. (Unless God changes his mind.)

Check C & D

Blow it, I will reveal what ichirou told me not to do unless I was an immediate lynch target.

I am the Town Role cop.

:wall: :wall:

Claiming before the voting even started. Pure insanity. I know you think there was a bandwagon against you, but I'll fill you in on something: You can't have a bandwagon before voting has started. You claimed too early. And you did so before getting a reply from me, and you did so despite a reply from <Tammo's character> telling you not to do so.

Your role is a fairly verifiable one though. At the same time, role cop is just a so-so role, better used to tell if people are lying, than to do any investigating. It's not a real cop role.

Hm, this is interesting indeed. Role cop you say. Well well, what to think about this now. It would be nice to hear from Ichirou and Norio that you actually told them this earlier today.

Yup, I woke up to a message. Why he decided I was town, I can't tell you. And he didn't wait for a reply either

Too much to do in the little time I have

Yasuko/RelicyC – 1

Tamiko/Zakura – 1

Akio/iamded – 1

Noriko/Eskallon – 1

Tadao/Legonator – 1

Lloyd Jr./ADHO15 – 0

Maniko/Swils – 0

*sniff* A lot of people have only spoken once, with a few keeping totally silent. I know at this early stage this isn't any real indicator (particularly when people have genuine reasons for being unable to post being busy), but it doesn't help show who is willing to help, and who isn't even bothering.

Thanks

I'm going to contradict you and say that there is no excuse for that. In the first half of the day period, (30 something hours), you need to make a little time. I'd be happy gambling on any of those people.

I'm sure scum are trying to stay just slightly above those numbers, but they are still a safe gamble to lynch

[The Legonater]

There are many ways for Yasu to survive the Night. Actually, speaking as someone who has been Scum in multiple past situations, I think it would be likely for her to survive. The Scum want her gone, but they also know that's it's obvious that the Scum will want her gone. They know that the Town will want to get a chance to verify her, so they know that the Town will be likely to protect and investigate her. The Scum won't want to risk wasting a kill, so they won't try to kill her. Instead, they'll kill someone else who probably won't be protected (on Night 1, that'll probably be a metagame kill based on past situations) and block Yasu to make sure she can't use her action.

Good points. I guess there are more variables than I originally estimated. And, other than flat out investigation, I cannot find any better way to prove Yasu's guilt

[Rumble Strike]

It was a very early roleclaim, and as mentioned, doesn't really help the Town either way. The Scum know who to block if we believe the claim and the Towniness of Yasu. Going after one of the silent minority might be an idea (due to not contributing) but I know some of them are in different timezones sleeping strangely. Also, in Day One, there isn't really much to go on. It's usually lots of people all saying the same thing, so perhaps not as damning to be quiet at this stage?

[Professor Flitwick]

*sniff* A lot of people have only spoken once, with a few keeping totally silent. I know at this early stage this isn't any real indicator (particularly when people have genuine reasons for being unable to post being busy), but it doesn't help show who is willing to help, and who isn't even bothering.

*sniff* I'm sorry, I just realised I made a spelling mistake here. It should read:

*sniff* A lot of people have only spoken once, with a few keeping totally silent. I know at this early stage this isn't any real indicator (particularly when people have genuine reasons for being unable to post being busy), but it does help show who is willing to help, and who isn't even bothering.

Thanks

*sniff* Your welcome, I just hope it's valid.

[Rufus]

Your role is a fairly verifiable one though.

It is? Let me guess: you tell him to investigate you, he does, and he gets your role right, and you come back to us and say, 'Yup! He's telling the truth!'

If the town has a tracker, we can track him, and see who he targets - assuming that we have a tracker who can tell someone that we all can trust who can then report to us. That's a lot of ifs. Anything else could just be a pack of lies.

There are only two sure-fire ways to be sure: investigate him, and have the investigator verified somehow, all of which will take at least two days; or, lynch him. Neither confirm his role.

I'm going to contradict you and say that there is no excuse for that. In the first half of the day period, (30 something hours), you need to make a little time. I'd be happy gambling on any of those people.

I'm sure scum are trying to stay just slightly above those numbers, but they are still a safe gamble to lynch

Experience tells us that the lowest posters on Day One are rarely scum. How is that a 'safe gamble'?

[MetroiD]

That's a lot of ifs. Anything else could just be a pack of lies.

Our situation in a nutshell there, also followed by a smart observation with regards to post numbers during the Day so far. Momoe's remarks there reflect my reasoning as to why I don't see any point in keeping Yasu around - even though I've had quite a few of you try to convince me otherwise. Blockers, trackers, killers, punchers, bungee jumpers, rats or even porcupines - regardless of what roles people might have in this Family, it is obvious that Yasu has done all the wrong things so far. And even if she is, as she claims, a loyal Yakuza with an important role to play - it still looks like she is set to continue her fine streak.

[Peanuts]

I think that there be a possibility that Yasu wants to be lynched. Maybe she is a bomb? Or she is actually the Town Role Cop and she went and role-claimed to two people or she is a Mutineer goon and this is all an elaborate plot to take us all down.

I doubt it. If she was a scum bomb, she wouldn't risk getting killed on day one. And I've never heard of a scum bomb, either.

If she was a jester, she's acting too crazy.

Most day one lynches are not due to silence. Whoever claimed that was a fact?

I think I already said at the beginning that many lynches were for people being annoying. I think you misread, I was talking about the fact that out of those day one lynches, which are due to silence, most are in late day one. Which pretty much stands to reason, as in the beginning we aren't even allowed to lynch.

I'm not sure if we should focus on the silent ones, the past has shown that the scum is likely to prefer the middle way of neither talking too much nor too few, mostly trying to look helpful without really being so.

[iamded]

I also find it interesting how 'proactive' you're trying to make yourself look this game. I don't remember you being anything more than a sheep for several lives now... Changing your approach since you drew scum again?

Y'know, I was reading up on 'Meta-gaming' earlier, and how bad it is and how we shouldn't do it and how it's generally discouraged...

I've compiled a list, detailing how many times each person has spoken up today. I'm fully aware that this day isn't even one third finished, but it would allow ample time to allow people to speak up.

<snip>

*sniff* A lot of people have only spoken once, with a few keeping totally silent. I know at this early stage this isn't any real indicator (particularly when people have genuine reasons for being unable to post being busy), but it doesn't help show who is willing to help, and who isn't even bothering.

Congratulations on your ability to count. I've always found judging people based on how vocal they are quite redundant, particularly among people familiar to these situations. Scum can easily be the most vocal of the lot, and there's always the few quiet, yet still loyal members.

I myself spoke up to express my opinions, then I checked back before taking a nap to find nothing new for me to say. People were still just repeating how, "Ooh, that Yasu's quite strange don't you think?" and nothing more. Sure, I could have said, "Yes, I agree that Yasu is still being strange. Oh, we could vote for her but oh, she could be loyal. Oooh, what to do..." But that wouldn't be anything new. Perhaps attention should be paid to those who speak up an awful lot about nothing in particular. Those scummy traitors among us would be looking for that balance between being active and lying low. Someone always does one of these tallies, and scum are always careful to not stand out in them.

Now, to the situation at hand. To completely counteract what I just talked about, allow me to recap the possible actions tonight.

• Vote out Yasu - Yasu really is the town role cop like she claims. We lose a useful loyal role.
  
• Vote out Yasu - Yasu is town who desperately role-claimed to try and stay alive. We lose a loyal Yakuza.
  
• Vote out Yasu - Yasu is a scum who desperately role-claimed to try and stay alive. We take out a mutineer.
  
• Vote out Yasu - Yasu is a scum role cop who role-claimed in the hope it would be somehow verified, and she would gain our trust. We take out a mutineer power role.
  
• Don't vote out Yasu - Yasu really is the town role cop like she claims. Scum would do their best to make her role useless - blocking, killing, hijacking. Town would want to investigate her to determine her allegiance.
  
• Don't vote out Yasu - Yasu is a regular Yakuza who role-claimed to stay alive. Would still be targeted by the scum and investigated by our investigator. Would at least distract the scum for a night.
  

[*]Don't vote out Yasu - Yasu is a scum. Our investigator would find out, unless the scum have a protective ability that blocks night actions.

Okay, there's just a multitude of possible outcomes. Let's just... hm. We shouldn't risk losing our role cop, but we can't guarantee us successfully investigating her tonight, and if we don't manage that, then what? Meanwhile, it seems there's been much more conversation in the time that I've said this, so I should catch up again.

[def]

It is? Let me guess: you tell him to investigate you, he does, and he gets your role right, and you come back to us and say, 'Yup! He's telling the truth!'

If the town has a tracker, we can track him, and see who he targets - assuming that we have a tracker who can tell someone that we all can trust who can then report to us. That's a lot of ifs. Anything else could just be a pack of lies.

There are only two sure-fire ways to be sure: investigate him, and have the investigator verified somehow, all of which will take at least two days; or, lynch him. Neither confirm his role.

He is verifiable in a few ways:

-no counter claim. I think his role is more than likely to pop up. If the scum have a role cop, town is doubly likely to have one. So, if there are no counter claims (done privately, of course ) that he's telling the truth.

-he can be investigated. He is not likely to be a godfather.

-he can have some results night one.

None of it is 100% confirmable, but I'm willing to work with Occam's Razor

Experience tells us that the lowest posters on Day One are rarely scum. How is that a 'safe gamble'?

Actually, I think I stated that scum are likely to stay just above that line. But as I also have said, I think it's good to send a message. If I were to gamble a townies life, it would be one who doesn't bother to show up. Certainly better than to gamble with someone roleclaiming, as poorly done as it was

[badboytje88]

You may start voting. I'll scrap the 1 unvote rule to benefit the contributions in the day time thread and to support everyone to play this game in the day thread as much as possible instead of via pm.

[Brickdoctor]

Seeing as I have unlimited unvotes, and considering that no one else seems suspicious enough to me to warrant a lynch at the time, I see no reason not to throw this out there and Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder).

[Tamamono]

It is? Let me guess: you tell him to investigate you, he does, and he gets your role right, and you come back to us and say, 'Yup! He's telling the truth!'

If the town has a tracker, we can track him, and see who he targets - assuming that we have a tracker who can tell someone that we all can trust who can then report to us. That's a lot of ifs. Anything else could just be a pack of lies.

There are only two sure-fire ways to be sure: investigate him, and have the investigator verified somehow, all of which will take at least two days; or, lynch him. Neither confirm his role.

Our situation in a nutshell there, also followed by a smart observation with regards to post numbers during the Day so far. Momoe's remarks there reflect my reasoning as to why I don't see any point in keeping Yasu around - even though I've had quite a few of you try to convince me otherwise. Blockers, trackers, killers, punchers, bungee jumpers, rats or even porcupines - regardless of what roles people might have in this Family, it is obvious that Yasu has done all the wrong things so far. And even if she is, as she claims, a loyal Yakuza with an important role to play - it still looks like she is set to continue her fine streak.

I find it mind-boggling how you two still want to lynch someone who claimed an important power role. You keep making up more and more things that 'might' be true, and all of those things are overly complicated. She has a useful role, so she should have a chance to be verified tonight. Why are you two (namely Momoe-sama) trying to make verifying her sound so overcomplicated?

He is verifiable in a few ways:

-no counter claim. I think his role is more than likely to pop up. If the scum have a role cop, town is doubly likely to have one. So, if there are no counter claims (done privately, of course ) that he's telling the truth.

I hadn't even thought of that! Good idea, Norio-sama! The problem is, nobody's confirmed at this point, so the second role cop might not know who to go to privately. I know that I'm a loyal member of the Yakuza, but there's no way for me to be verified when we haven't even had a night phase yet.

Actually, I think I stated that scum are likely to stay just above that line. But as I also have said, I think it's good to send a message. If I were to gamble a townies life, it would be one who doesn't bother to show up. Certainly better than to gamble with someone roleclaiming, as poorly done as it was

This is another good point, however, those people you're gambling with could very well have important roles of their own. Hopefully, if need be, they won't be so eager to claim as Yasu-chan was. Claiming is a last resort, people!

You may start voting. I'll scrap the 1 unvote rule to benefit the contributions in the day time thread and to support everyone to play this game in the day thread as much as possible instead of via pm.

Thank you very much, Grandfather! That's a big help!

Okay, since voting's started, I'm not wasting any time. Let's lynch some Mutineers! I agree that the scum wouldn't want to be in the 'quiet person' crowd today, and that they'll likely be around the middle.

Now, to start off, there are several people who have caught my attention today:

Emi-chan: She's acting very differently from usual, but I understand that this is called 'metagaming' (as if life were some sort of game ), so I won't push this too much today.

Momoe-san: Trying to make verifying Yasu-chan sound overcomplicated. However, I don't know if the scum would want to put their necks out there so early.

Yasu-chan: If you have to ask me why she's suspicious, then you need to read the thread. She could be scum or she could be the town role cop. But like Norio-sama, I'm willing to work with Occam's Razor.

I'm going to go over what else has been said today, and I'll come back with more names when I'm done.

[Bob]

At this point this is our only lead, and we are allowed an unvote, so:

Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

[CorneliusMurdock]

I'm not comfortable voting for Yasu at this time. She's not the brightest crayon in the box but I think letting her live tonight may at least waste a scum block if she's telling the truth. Norio has some good points about seeing if she can be somewhat verified tonight.

I'll have to rereadmember what everyone else has said and decide where my vote may go.

[CMP]

Even if Yasu is the role cop, the scum aren't going to let her roam too much. She's shackled her fate to her role, which won't be much help considering the Mutineers know about it know. There's more to gain than there is to lost - being scum is a probability that can't often be fully eliminated. Vote: Yasu (Theboywonder)

[Peanuts]

Even if Yasu is the role cop, the scum aren't going to let her roam too much. She's shackled her fate to her role, which won't be much help considering the Mutineers know about it know. There's more to gain than there is to lost - being scum is a probability that can't often be fully eliminated. Vote: Yasu (Theboywonder)

Well, we still can have a watcher watch her, if we have one, and I'd rather have her investigated than lynched. Since we have unlimited unvotes, I highly doubt there will be a bandwagon against Yasu, but would you please tell me what is "to gain"?