Yakuza Family - Day 2

[Bob]

Vote: Ichiro / Tamamono

I'm not entirely convinced, since he's been communicating in private with me. My vote could change, but at the moment the points brought up are logical and sound, so it is only natural that upon careful consideration that I pursue this course of action.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I just don't see how my uncle could possibly have a group of townies that came to him so early. I also can't fathom what he was trying to accomplish by telling us all about what roles contacted him or what they were doing when the information (which Norio says may not be true anyway) wouldn't outweigh the perils of doing so. The only thing I can think he's doing is trying to get others to claim to him by saying that many others already have.

Vote: Ichiro (Tamamono)

[badboytje88]

Votes so far

Ichirou (Tamamono): 8 Votes

Eskallon, Rumble Strike, Zakura, Scubacarrot, Etzel, Def, Bob, CorneliusMurdock,

Lizzy (Capt. Redblade): 1 Vote

Volcanicpanik,

[Peanuts]

So I'm absent for a short time, doing some business and all hell breaks loose.

Apparently my dear son has married a nutjob. Or a traitor. Or both. Whatever, I hope there is a vigilante a Yakuza who is trying to kill the Mutineers at night who can take care of Tamiko. Living the rest of the day together with her antics is going to be exhausting, living another full day with her will be unbearable.

About Ichirou, he has asked me to join his 'circle' of trusted Yakuza, and claimed he already has a group PM conversation going, offering me a spot in that conversation after he verified me. This seems odd to me, him claiming to have a group conversation going would mean he has at least two other people with him that he trusts, somehow, I doubt this. I am also beginning to think his "Roadrunner the Blocker" story is made-up, why would someone role-claim to him?? Especially considering his involvement in Yasu's 'defense' yesterday.

That's strange. How is our Wakagashira going to verify both you and this town blocker he claims to know if he isn't even in contact with an investigator? That seems highly scummy to me. I still wasn't sure about him, but I don't like his attitude, probing people for night actions while he is certainly not proven Yakuza. Therefore I'll follow the crowd and

vote: Ichirou (Tamamono)

[Rick]

Now Ichirou may seem scummy, but Lizzy seems very confused and inexperienced to me. A townie like that is liability to us all.

That's the kind of reasoning we need.

I'm not fully convinced at the case against Ichiro-San.

Me either. If we assume he's town, sure, his behaviour might be explained by reference to his 'mentor', but at the same time I wonder what made people claim to him. It certainly cannot be his behaviour yesterday. I also wonder why he came forward publicly with his 'blocker story' that's full of holes. Just to try and appear trustworthy and get more people to claim to him?

If he's a mutineer, it's certainly a very risky strategy to be fishing for information and roles with so many people (even though I haven't been approached by him). This is something I'm not so sure a mutineer would be willing to do, unless, as has been suggested before, he's immune to investigative actions at night because he's the godfather of the mutineers. Considering this is the only good explanation I see for his behaviour and given we probably have no other way to verify this but to lynch Ichirou, I will:

Vote: Ichirou (Tamamono)

[iamded]

Now Ichirou may seem scummy, but Lizzy seems very confused and inexperienced to me.

Oh no, of course. Example A seems scummy, but example B seems inexperienced. Clearly we should eliminate our inexperienced team-mate instead of the person whom we think is our enemy. That's... that's solid, sound logic.

Sorry for the massive dose of sarcasm there, but the way you worded that... well, it wasn't the best. Anyway, I'm not one to pick on people, so I'll drop it for now. Besides, it seems I'm not the only person who picked up on it...

I'm not sure about dear mother. She's been acting a bit odd, hasn't she? Maybe this situation has driven her over the edge. I don't believe she is a 'Jester' trying to get herself killed, as admitting to that is a cry for attention that would bring that behaviour to a stop. (A Jester never tells it's secret, see. That's cheating.) So I don't know what she's up to, but surely a scum wouldn't be so daft as to make such an absurd role-claim out of nowhere - that's like painting a target on your forehead, with a neon sign pointing to it that reads "Mutineer!". Unless she's trying to use reverse psychology, but I think that's too risky a gambit for a scum to take. My money's on her just being mad.

About grandfather Ichirou-sama, I have to say a lot of what I've been hearing from him has not sat well with me. I can't think of any specifics right now, but I will see if I can't garner up a few after another short nap. I'm getting tired already...

Oh! Being so distracted by mother's outbursts, I completely forgot about Lloyd-Bō! They say children are the future, perhaps the Mutineers are striking at the future Yakuza...

[Eskallon]

That's strange. How is our Wakagashira going to verify both you and this town blocker he claims to know if he isn't even in contact with an investigator? That seems highly scummy to me. I still wasn't sure about him, but I don't like his attitude, probing people for night actions while he is certainly not proven Yakuza. Therefore I'll follow the crowd and

vote: Ichirou (Tamamono)

Thats a very good point you make there. He obviously lied to at least one of you about getting you verified tonight, you shouldn't promise a verification which isn't going to happen.

[badboytje88]

Votes so far

Ichirou (Tamamono): 10 Votes

Eskallon, Rumble Strike, Zakura, Scubacarrot, Etzel, Def, Bob, CorneliusMurdock, Peanuts, Rick,

Lizzy (Capt. Redblade): 1 Vote

Volcanicpanik,

[Rufus]

Vote: Ichirou (Tamamono)

I'd have been willing to do this yesterday, purely on the basis of the infamous 'wall' post, had it not been more important to lynch Yasu first. Indeed, when you view that post in the light of this earlier post, the whole thing looks highly staged:

I am very confident that Yasu-chan is scum, and I will certainly be voting for her when the time comes (unless something else comes up, but that's pretty unlikely).

Would you believe it? Something did come up

Everything Ichirou has said subsequently has only heightened my suspicion. He tries to convince us to watch Yasu at night, knowing full-well that that would in no way confirm Yasu, and excuses his sudden about-turn with regard to Yasu with the following incredibly weak statement that he 'I've always had a tendency to believe roleclaims.'

Then there's the 'blocker' fiasco from today. Sloppy scum.

That Ichirou has been fishing for information behind the scenes is not surprising; what is more worrying is that people seem to believe him. Ichirou is a danger to the town, and I'm really not confident about this:

Also, I know he won't be sharing any of the names of the town specials he's apparently rounded up.

I'm sure he's already shared the names with his team-mates.

[Alopex]

Based on the points people have brought up, I shall follow the crowd, and: Vote: Ichirou (Tamamono)

[Peanuts]

I've been thinking about today, and I really don't like how Ichirou tried to explain his mistake yesterday with "stupidity". The matter is, stupidity sounds like a reasonable excuse at first thought - after all, to err is human. But plain stupidity is no excuse on it's own. Stupid is how one acted, not why one acted. Even if you acted stupidly, you still have to have a reason why you acted stupidly. At least you should think before you talk, and that thinking, however stupid it is, is more of an excuse than "stupidity". Misinterpretations or wrong assumptions and assessments or something like that are an explanation, since people should be responsible for their actions, as they should think first and then talk. Of course I realize that this is the internet some of you are deeply shocked by the situation we are in, but we should not forget we should all be grown-ups, since Eurobricks theoretically is an adult board and even the younger ones among us should possess enough mental maturity to be hold responsible for their statements. Long story short, it simply bothers me how people (or lizards, in a very special case) try to absolve themselves from responsibilities by simply stating how inexperienced they are or how stupid they have been, or by impulsiveness, instead of stating what they have been thinking when they did what they did.

On a second note, how did they realize they were stupid/impulsive/inexperienced? If they knew thay were when they acted stupidly/impulsively, they wouldn't have done so. So what, have they suddenly got an epiphany last night? I sincerely doubt it. I think it's just easy to tell something like that when you have to account for your actions, so I think that's a scumtell.

That's why I'm suspicious of Lizzy, as I hinted before. This:

I guess I was just a bit impulsive yesterday. I gotta watch that. First-day jitters and whatnot.

That is all I have to say for myself, because that's the only explanation there is. I have no ulterior motives, and certainly no scummy ones. If you will not take this statement as fact, then I welcome the scrutiny of the Town Cop.

Is just what I'm talking about. No explanation, no real excuse. Having "no ulterior motives" is a byword for not wanting to do anything. You have to have a motive when talking. There are many motives one might have when talking, like to share suspicion, talk about suspicion, share info, discuss info, vote, address a suspicion, accuse someone, discuss about anything, whatever you want to talk about, but always in the spirit of bringing the Yakuza forward to our ultimate goal of eradicating these Mutineers. Talking without further motives is talking for the sake of talking, which is certainly not pro-town, and usually scummy. That's why I'm now very suspicious of Lizzy.

But Ichirou still seems to be the better candidate, and the "stupidity as excuse" defense I've been talking about above also fits for him, so I'll keep my vote. But I'll definitely keep an eye on Lizzy.

[Tamamono]

Oh you have got to be kidding me! Nobody flocked to me for information! I only know of three roles! I go to people to talk, and since I'm nosy (like I ALWAYS am when I'm town), I ask what their role is. I'm only coordinating the ones who were willing to tell me. There aren't herds of night action townies following me around. There are THREE!

And about Chieko, SHE came to ME! We started talking, and the only reason I asked her to be part of my alliance (I do keep people separate) is because I think she's SCUM. She's not nearly as vocal in the Day threads as last time - that's a dead giveaway of a scum. I was in private messages with her because I thought I might be able to get something out of her!

And I'm going to pt my vote where my mouth is. I don't expect anyone to follow me, but it's my choice:

Vote: Chieko (Scubacarrot)

Now why on Earth would I make up the story about Roadrunner!? This whole blocker thing is not doing me any good, and I'm not a COMPLETE idiot, so I wouldn't have made it up if it weren't true! I brought it forward because I thought it would reveal useful information about Nobuo and Norio. No other reasons.

As for me flinging around accusation, I'm paranoid! I was never good at town, and I'm even worse at it since I was scum last time and my team and I knew everything. Everything everyone does this game seems scummy to me. It doesn't matter what it is. I immediately think that everyone is scum. How could you expect me not to accuse those who I think are scum!?

Wow, lots of stuff said whilst I was resting. To me, it looks as though Ichirou is desperately trying to cover their tracks after Yasu was revealed as a mutineer. By trying to appear as proactive as possible, with an unlikely 'inner circle' of info already on Day Two, it's all a bit unconvincing and I am clearly not the only one of us seeing holes in the processes. Guilty by association, guilty by what has been said today.

Oh, look, the scummies are all jumpin' on the bandwagon! How quickly they learn!

Early on, I gave him the benefit of the doubt since Yasu-chan had decided to name us both in public. I have been speaking with him, and he certainly has tried to fish me for roles that he could. But that wasn't exactly suspicious. I could quite easily see Ichiro-San trying to impersonate his former mentor, hinckley-chan, and try to do some townie hero routine, as a follow-up to his last life.

That is exactly what I was trying to do! I did so well last life that I figured my town game needed to be upped as well. It was stupid of me, and I bit off more than I could chew. However, I have been working my megablocks for the town all day every day! And you people are LYNCHING me for this!?

[Cecilie]

Ichirou's behaviour has been weird since the beginning, and judging by all what's been said about him today, it seems there's a lot of things that don't add up. And it seems that people haven't been running to him trusting him with their roles like he made it appear at first, but he has coaxed some, perhaps less experienced among us, to tell him things. I don't like this at all, so I too will

Vote: Ichirou (Tamamono)

Now, back to disinfecting the place... Stop spreading your germs, people! Put on a mask or something...

[Tamamono]

Ichirou's behaviour has been weird since the beginning, and judging by all what's been said about him today, it seems there's a lot of things that don't add up. And it seems that people haven't been running to him trusting him with their roles like he made it appear at first, but he has coaxed some, perhaps less experienced among us, to tell him things. I don't like this at all, so I too will

I have not been trying to 'coax' people into telling me their roles! I have been trying to find out peoples roles so that I can help them coordinate their actions.

[Scubacarrot]

Basically you are accusing me because I accused you... I'm not a fan of using the term 'scum tell' but this is one if I ever saw one.

Yes, I did came to you, but you took every initiative. I don't know if there is a difference in how vocal I am in the thread, I have not noticed it from myself, if it is there, but I do not think that matters, actual actions matter more. Stop trying to act hurt that you are accused, your behaviour has been suspicious as heck, and you know it.

[Tamamono]

Basically you are accusing me because I accused you... I'm not a fan of using the term 'scum tell' but this is one if I ever saw one.

No, that is not it. I have been harboring suspicions about LOTS of people here. Most of them are probably wrong, I must admit, but you are one of many. I gave my explanation for why I was talking to you, and I decided to put my vote where my mouth is.

Yes, I did came to you, but you took every initiative. I don't know if there is a difference in how vocal I am in the thread, I have not noticed it from myself, if it is there, but I do not think that matters, actual actions matter more. Stop trying to act hurt that you are accused, your behaviour has been suspicious as heck, and you know it.

Oh, there is a big difference. You are scum, Chieko.

And I'm not hurt, I'm PISSED. How do you think it feels to spend the better part of a week working your megablocks off for the town just to get turned on because you're still adjusting to playing town?

[Rick]

Now why on Earth would I make up the story about Roadrunner!? This whole blocker thing is not doing me any good, and I'm not a COMPLETE idiot, so I wouldn't have made it up if it weren't true! I brought it forward because I thought it would reveal useful information about Nobuo and Norio. No other reasons.

That's what you've been asked repeatedly: Why? What useful information about Nobuo and Norio was to be gained from coming forward with your 'blocker story'. Why bring it forward when, when questions are being asked, you decide that it's not safe to share too much information publicly? There are obvious gaps in your 'blocker story'. You haven't really taken away any of my concerns with your replies so far.

[Scubacarrot]

Ichirou, because I particularily don;t like your behaviour, I have gone and counted the times I spoke up on my first day in my previous life in Egypt, and compared it to the times I spoke up yesterday, what it shows is the opposite of what you claim. Maybe do some research before you make up stories like that.

[Tamamono]

Look, I have been trying to address all your points as best I could, and apparently, there is nothing that I can say to keep you from voting me. Every explanation I give just makes you more sure of me. What is it you want from me? The questions you've been asking aren't the types that are actually answerable. They aren't strictly rhetorical, but they are impossible to answer nonetheless.

I am town, and I have been working very hard to catch the scum. If you don't want to believe that, then fine. That's your choice. I have been very clumsy this game, and that is a surefire sign that I'm town, not that I'm scum. You've all gotten tunnel vision, and everything I say just makes it worse. You've all made up your little fantasies in your heads that lynching me will get you another scum - well, you're wrong. If you want to do that, then fine. Go ahead.

[Peanuts]

And about Chieko, SHE came to ME! We started talking, and the only reason I asked her to be part of my alliance (I do keep people separate) is because I think she's SCUM. She's not nearly as vocal in the Day threads as last time - that's a dead giveaway of a scum. I was in private messages with her because I thought I might be able to get something out of her!

And I'm going to pt my vote where my mouth is. I don't expect anyone to follow me, but it's my choice:

Vote: Chieko (Scubacarrot)

So, the reason why you assume Chieko is scum is because she wasn't very vocal? Is that right or am I mistunderstanding you? Because that's the only reason I can see there.

Point is, she has been speaking up nearly as often as you. According to my records, you spoke 20 times, and she spoke 18 times. That's 5.5% of what has been said yesterday (including messages by Grandfather Lloyd/that Kami that keeps talking to us). Of course the content of her comments didn't add much to our conservation, but I wouldn't call her "not vocal". Of course, point in her disfavor is that she said she didn't believe Yasu was scum at the beginning, just like me, but without giving so much reasoning as me.

And, Ichirou, you're getting pretty upset now that you are voted for, using lot's of bold and caps quite a volume of speech. Reminds me of some cultist I read about...

[Brickdoctor]

Basically you are accusing me because I accused you... I'm not a fan of using the term 'scum tell' but this is one if I ever saw one.

I agree. I wasn't that confident about voting for Ichirou, but then I read that statement...

Really, Ichirou, you accused Chieko of being Scum only on the grounds that she isn't being vocal. That's really not much to go on. You don't break down her behavior, you don't point out certain things she said, and you just go and say that you're so sure she's Scum because she isn't as vocal. I can't say that I trust her, but that's not something I'm going to lynch her based on. To me, it looks like you are particularly desperate to shift attention away from yourself.

Three is still a lot. This is Day Two. At best, there should be perhaps one person telling you their action. (if an Investigator found you Town last Night and thus can trust you with his role) One would make sense. Two might be understandable. Three is too many. I would actually prefer having you investigated, because of the power you might hold in knowing Night Actions. If you are Scum, the Scum already know all those actions, anyways. However, the point Kenta made about you possibly being the Godfather would make that course of action unreliable.

This is the second time you've used a form of Chainsaw Defense. Yesterday, you accused me for being too vocal after it became clear that I was still going to try to lynch Yasu despite her role claim. Today, you accuse Chieko for not being vocal enough after a bandwagon starts against you. You could have presented either of those suspicions earlier in their respective Days. That you presented them when you did makes me think that you were desperate to turn attention to another suspect, to the point that you went and voted for someone based only on how vocal he or she had been in the very small sample of one or one and a half Days.

I Vote: Ichirou (Tamamono).

[Eskallon]

Look, I have been trying to address all your points as best I could, and apparently, there is nothing that I can say to keep you from voting me. Every explanation I give just makes you more sure of me. What is it you want from me? The questions you've been asking aren't the types that are actually answerable. They aren't strictly rhetorical, but they are impossible to answer nonetheless.

I am town, and I have been working very hard to catch the scum. If you don't want to believe that, then fine. That's your choice. I have been very clumsy this game, and that is a surefire sign that I'm town, not that I'm scum. You've all gotten tunnel vision, and everything I say just makes it worse. You've all made up your little fantasies in your heads that lynching me will get you another scum - well, you're wrong. If you want to do that, then fine. Go ahead.

Actually I asked you this:

In fact also, if you haven't found/are the investigator how could you verify the person?

and you ignored it completely. If you didn't want to answer the question saying you aren't comfortable sharing that or just something to let me know you were still paying attention and wary would have been nice.

[Brickdoctor]

So, the reason why you assume Chieko is scum is because she wasn't very vocal? Is that right or am I mistunderstanding you? Because that's the only reason I can see there.

Point is, she has been speaking up nearly as often as you. According to my records, you spoke 20 times, and she spoke 18 times. That's 5.5% of what has been said yesterday (including messages by Grandfather Lloyd/that Kami that keeps talking to us).

For the record, my count agrees with that.

[Tamamono]

Okay, apparently, I was wrong. I was used to Chieko going on rants and acting like a Scottish pseudo-chef from the Egyptian play. I also wasn't taking count of how many times people spoke up. I'm being overly paranoid this game. Sorry.

Unvote: Chieko (Scubacarrot)

[Brickdoctor]

And I'm not hurt, I'm PISSED. How do you think it feels to spend the better part of a week working your megablocks off for the town just to get turned on because you're still adjusting to playing town?

Of course you are. Last game, we played Scum together, and you told us that you read that it was good to act insulted when we were being lynched. And since you already told us that you didn't change your style...