Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Season 5 Discussion

[Brickadeer]

You guys are hilarious Given, Filoni were able to create a set of episodes based on your current knowledge and preference, and that, measured by these standards, would be perfect, I'm sure you would be able to find a lot details to complain about, simply because it's The Clone Wars; Filoni and Lucas will never be able to get it right because, well, they are Filoni and Lucas.

edit:

The trailer at a slightly higher resolution:

http://www.starwars.com/watch/tcw_season5_cvi_trailer.html

Edited August 28, 2012 by Brickadeer

[KisKatona]

Am I the only one who, when seeing that former clone commando, immediately thought of Fi from Omega Squad? I think that it's different armor, but it seems like he thinks that he's a Mandalorian and doesn't remember his past.

Second lost/former clone in the series...

[BrickG]

This show has it's own sticky?

Man, I hate this show. I'm one of those old Star Wars fans that love the original Trilogy. The new trilogy... sucks. I tried for years to like it. I've recently come to the conclusion that they're just average movies as compared to the legendary original trilogy.

Then I gave this show a chance. I didn't really make it to season 5. It's too freakin' kiddy. I'm usually not one to complain about that (I like Lego after all and a lot of cartoons) but the quality of the writing and stories are just terrible. And that announcer guy at the beginning of the episodes, I'm not sure you can start off a show with something MORE annoying.

I mean, there are some kids shows that are written well. Spongebob, Teen Titans, Avatar (both series), etc. This is NOT one of them.

Now, it's not as bad as I make it out to be but it's nothing special. I feel like Star Wars devolved and now is made just to sell toys and games. It's left without me to a place I cannot follow.

[Oky]

You guys are hilarious Given, Filoni were able to create a set of episodes based on your current knowledge and preference, and that, measured by these standards, would be perfect, I'm sure you would be able to find a lot details to complain about, simply because it's The Clone Wars; Filoni and Lucas will never be able to get it right because, well, they are Filoni and Lucas.

This is not true. Episodes like Rookies and Landing At Point Rain were such episodes that were pretty much what we think a great Clone Wars episode should be, so Filoni and his team proved that they are capable of producing good episodes for this show, which makes it so frustrating that they can't seem to get it right most of the time.

I guess it's like the Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode "Chill of the Night", where the creators of a show that is deemed "too kiddie" by most of the older fans make only one episode in a style that pleases that specific type of fans just to show that they can do it "right" but choose not to, just for the sake of sticking to their interpretation of the source material.

I feel like Star Wars devolved and now is made just to sell toys and games. It's left without me to a place I cannot follow.

Do I smell a Revenge of the Sith reference?

Padme said the same thing to Anakin before he choked her to death.

[BrickG]

Do I smell a Revenge of the Sith reference?

Well, the prequels and all it's spawn are basically the Dark Side.

[Brickadeer]

This is not true. Episodes like Rookies and Landing At Point Rain were such episodes that were pretty much what we think a great Clone Wars episode should be, so Filoni and his team proved that they are capable of producing good episodes for this show, which makes it so frustrating that they can't seem to get it right most of the time.

I'm sorry. I found it amusing, but I didn't mean to be offensive. I have a different view about the quality of the show, but I think different views are beyond the scope of an "objective" discussion, so I accept your point.

[Im a brickmaster.]

Personally, I think the Clone Wars has gotten very good in the last season or two and seeing

this trailer just gets all jacked up about Star Wars! But I in the past two

seasons the episodes have become more appealing then season one or two.

Actually I hate that episode were R2 and C3-P0 go under ground and run into

some sort of alien and a magic riddle speak fairy. So there's

still some work to be done.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Im a brickmaster.

[Walter]

I'm not going to expect too much from this season. I'm just going to watch it like I've been watching it for the past couple of seasons and enjoy it for what it is. An okay show that I enjoy watching from time to time.

But if there is one thing I'd love to see this season, it is a major hero/villain death. Ventress, Ashoka, Maul, and Opress will die one way or another, and I hope we get to see it on this show.

I'm not saying that I expect that to happen this season, but I'd like to see it happen ultimately.

[Oky]

I'm sorry. I found it amusing, but I didn't mean to be offensive.

No offense taken. That's just how we critical nerdy types are.

But if there is one thing I'd love to see this season, it is a major hero/villain death. Ventress, Ashoka, Maul, and Opress will die one way or another, and I hope we get to see it on this show.

I don't see why people are still expecting Ventress to die. I could understand it if she was still a Sith apprentice, but she's a bounty hunter now. Who says she couldn't just disappear in the underworld after the war?

[Brickadeer]

I don't see why people are still expecting Ventress to die. I could understand it if she was still a Sith apprentice, but she's a bounty hunter now. Who says she couldn't just disappear in the underworld after the war?

In Season 4, we saw the "Slave of the Republic" arc. The queen told Anakin that he is a slave, and I think she was right. Anakin's present actions are basically determined of his past and his experiences, his fear of loss, his fear of being unable to control situations, and, in a certain sense, it's his past that drives him to the dark side.

In this regard, Ventress is the opposite of Anakin: she was able to break away from her past, to re-define herself, and to shape her future. She made a decision that Anakin neither was nor will be able to make.

So to me, Lucas/Filoni explore a philosophical question in these two arcs, and Anakin and Ventress are two different answers to the same question: in some cases, people are free to decide, while in others, they aren't; so what is ultimately discussed here are free will and determinism. (Recommend article for political implications: here).

And to answer your question: I think it's for the reason of drama that Ventress has to die. I like her very much, and I'd like her to survive (which is a bit irrational since she's just a figure in a tv series, but that's a different point). But I do not believe that Filoni will let her go. To me, she has begun to represent or symbolize an ideal or at least an idea, and it's exactly this idea that will die and give way to the emerging empire, the new "shape of things to come".

[Oky]

Interesting theory, but if Ventress really does represent free will and determinism and all that, would it not defy her purpose to kill her off? I mean, now that she has decided to leave the Dark Side, wouldn't it seem like she would get punished for her decision if she looses her life because of it? Seems like it would send the wrong message to the viewer by saying that free will will get you killed. Besides, Anakin "dies" because he embraces the dark side (at least according to Obi Wan) so if Ventress is the Anti-Vader, she should live (and keep her limbs). I think Anakin's death and Vader's birth in ROTS is enough to symbolize the death of free will with the rise of the empire. I don't think they need to get into that again in this show. Instead, they should show how doing the opposite of what Anakin did (or will do) would lead to a good thing.

[Brickadeer]

Interesting theory, but if Ventress really does represent free will and determinism and all that, would it not defy her purpose to kill her off? I mean, now that she has decided to leave the Dark Side, wouldn't it seem like she would get punished for her decision if she looses her life because of it? Seems like it would send the wrong message to the viewer by saying that free will will get you killed. Besides, Anakin "dies" because he embraces the dark side (at least according to Obi Wan) so if Ventress is the Anti-Vader, she should live (and keep her limbs). I think Anakin's death and Vader's birth in ROTS is enough to symbolize the death of free will with the rise of the empire. I don't think they need to get into that again in this show. Instead, they should show how doing the opposite of what Anakin did (or will do) would lead to a good thing.

Ventress represents to some degree "free will", but clearly not determinism. And no, it's part of a drama's structure that at the end, the protagonist is worse off than at the beginning. In Ventress' case, her end would be more tragic, depending on the circumstances.

The topic of personal responsibilty has been invoked in the recent Batman film, that those who have the power to change the course of history must decide whether they act or stand by. The same topic will be invoked in Season 5; as Filoni put it, the Jedi miss opportunities to act resposible and to act due to their standards; the consequence is that guys like Tarkin advance in the military chain and take over the power. I'm pretty sure that Ventress will die, to me, the question is how and why: will she make an ultimate sacrifice in order to serve a greater good? If this should be the case, do you still think that the wrong message is sent? As pathetic as it may sound: we will all die. The question is whether we die as bystanders who decide not to act, hoping that "somehow", everything will turn out right, or if we act due to our standards of "how things should be".

Anyway, at this point, it remains highly speculative; but on the other hands, it precisely these questions that make TCW so interesting to me.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Brickadeer

[TheRedGuy]

Ventress appears after the Clone Wars so she probably can't die.

[Fives]

Ventress appears after the Clone Wars so she probably can't die.

Even Piell survived Order 66, but George Lucas decided to kill him off during the CW, which rendered the other story non-canon. George Lucas could alter Ventress's story as much as he wants.

[Sam892]

Even Piell survived Order 66, but George Lucas decided to kill him off during the CW, which rendered the other story non-canon. George Lucas could alter Ventress's story as much as he wants.

And they reserected Eeth Koth who died at the arena battle in Episode 2. Seems that canon has gone out the window at this point. I wouldn't be suprised if Anakin was killed off this season

[General Magma]

And they reserected Eeth Koth who died at the arena battle in Episode 2. Seems that canon has gone out the window at this point. I wouldn't be suprised if Anakin was killed off this season

Eeth Koth never even died there to begin with... at least, I saw no body or any kind of confirmation.

Not sure what stated his death but alright. Or am I wrong?

Edited September 17, 2012 by General Magma

[Sam892]

Eeth Koth never even died there to begin with... at least, I saw no body or any kind of confirmation.

Not sure what stated his death but alright. Or am I wrong?

In the Episode II visual or character dictionary it said that a gunship carrying Koth and some other Jedi was shot down. Dunno if it was in the film but it's in the EU.

[Brickadeer]

In the Episode II visual or character dictionary it said that a gunship carrying Koth and some other Jedi was shot down. Dunno if it was in the film but it's in the EU.

Last paragraph:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eeth_Koth

To me, Eeth Koth is not an important character in EP II. Whether he was assumed to be dead and "revived" later isn't exactly a problem that makes me sleeping badly.

@Oky:

But maybe you're right; I think if Ventress is popular enough Filoni might as well leave her destiny open.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Brickadeer

[Walter]

Who will fall?

[Masked Builder]

So many main characters! It's hard to know....

[Sam892]

Who will fall?

Hmm interesting... If I had to pick one to keep it would have to be Maul. After a years wait between the hint in season 3 to his return in the finale, I really want him to stick around. It would be pointless for him to be around for only a few episodes and then be killed off. As much as I hate to say it I think Opress will die. Not that he should or needs to but, I think they want to keep adding to Maul fuelled by revenge. He will most likely be killed of by Palpatine. I know it sounds strange but I could see if that did happen Ventress joining with Maul. They have similar motivations, both being strong in the dark side and could be both out for revenge against Dooku and Palpatine. Pre Visla will most likely die by Maul, there's already a hint at that in the trailer. What I could also see is everyone of those characters dying this season, that would make an incredibly dark season .

[Oky]

Ventress represents to some degree "free will", but clearly not determinism. And no, it's part of a drama's structure that at the end, the protagonist is worse off than at the beginning. In Ventress' case, her end would be more tragic, depending on the circumstances.

The topic of personal responsibilty has been invoked in the recent Batman film, that those who have the power to change the course of history must decide whether they act or stand by. The same topic will be invoked in Season 5; as Filoni put it, the Jedi miss opportunities to act resposible and to act due to their standards; the consequence is that guys like Tarkin advance in the military chain and take over the power. I'm pretty sure that Ventress will die, to me, the question is how and why: will she make an ultimate sacrifice in order to serve a greater good? If this should be the case, do you still think that the wrong message is sent? As pathetic as it may sound: we will all die. The question is whether we die as bystanders who decide not to act, hoping that "somehow", everything will turn out right, or if we act due to our standards of "how things should be".

Anyway, at this point, it remains highly speculative; but on the other hands, it precisely these questions that make TCW so interesting to me.

I don't think Star Wars is a drama. Every story in the saga has a happy ending (more or less) and I doubt that they would make a show that's mainly aimed at kids and teaches them that life sucks and that we all die eventually.

As for whether it would send the wrong message if Ventress died as part of a sacrifice for a greater good, I guess it depends on what that "greater good" is, but at this point, I would say yes, it would, especially if your theory about Ventress' symbolism is right.

And yes, anything gets interesting if you look that much into it.

Who will fall?

Is this an official image? It better not be Hondo or Embo!

[TheRedGuy]

Who will fall?

Oh boy, bye bye Pre Vizsla..

[Mr Man]

Who will fall?

Everyone there will, except Hondo and Embo, who will be in ESB Special Special edition replacing Zukas and 4-LOM.

I don't want Ventress to die, following her story through TCW and CW makes her into a much more sympathetic character than Anakin is. If Underworld ever gets off the ground, I would love to see her in that.

[General Magma]

Ahsoka and/or Captain Rex, please.

Ehh... well, does this mean that we'll see one of their deaths THIS season or during the season premiere, as it says "season premiere" top left corner?

Anyways, I can see most of them being killed off eventually if not all, but I know for a fact that Adia Gallia will die during the Clone Wars.

But considering Sidious's duel with the Zabrak duo... Savage or Maul both have a chance to fall at his hands as well. However, they also said it would be a

"big season" for Ahsoka... and she's already being targeted for death now. I've been suspecting her death ever since I heard the "big season for her" thing more than ever before.

Edited September 18, 2012 by General Magma