Dacta Control Lab Software

[legoROBOLAB]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:54 PM, BatteryPoweredBricks said:

Hello fellow Lego DACTA fans!

I just received a comment on one of my videos with a link to this.  I imagine some of you would already know most of the information in the video, but I found it interesting to watch, there's a certain nostalgia with old media like this.  I have more things I want to share on the Control Lab soon when I find the time.  For now enjoy this window into the past!
 

 

Good Morning
It's an extremely important video as I've never seen it for sale... and nowadays VHS is rare... and converting to digital is even rarer. It was a great contribution to the collective knowledge of this LEGO Education software/product. Thank you very much for sharing, and especially thank you to whoever did all this video conversion work and made it available to all of us. Thank you very much.

[hypertalking]

On 12/7/2022 at 12:11 AM, alexGS said:

I note that on their Macintosh LCII, the Dacta interface doesn’t fill the modest 640x480 screen properly. I guess that’s why I tend to use even older models like the Powerbook 100! I’ll try it on a Classic too…

I also use it on a PowerBook 100 :-)

On 11/22/2022 at 5:50 PM, evank said:

Most of the Lego software for the 8-bit and 16-bit systems (TC Logo, Lego Lines, Control Lab, etc.) is in the "Vintage Lego Robotics" collection at Archive.org. Most of the manuals are there too.

Archive.org's search is inscrutable to me, so I had to Google "Vintage Lego Robotics archive.org", this is the link if useful for anyone else who also struggles with their search! 

On 12/9/2022 at 10:31 AM, legoROBOLAB said:

Good Morning
It's an extremely important video as I've never seen it for sale... and nowadays VHS is rare... and converting to digital is even rarer. It was a great contribution to the collective knowledge of this LEGO Education software/product. Thank you very much for sharing, and especially thank you to whoever did all this video conversion work and made it available to all of us. Thank you very much.

This is great!

I also got a copy of this VHS around 6 months ago, and it's been sat on a shelf waiting for me to digitise and upload it. Not sure there's much point now! I may check it and see if I can get a better quality digitisation, but I doubt it.

On 12/7/2022 at 2:46 AM, BatteryPoweredBricks said:

Ohh I'll have to check that out Evan!  I know @hypertalking uploaded one to his channel a while back but unfortunately it was badly damaged (basically audio only for the first half) hopefully we can find a copy of that video in better condition. 

Oh hi! Thanks for the mention :) Yes it was really frustrating how damaged that tape was at the beginning - it may even have been from my first attempt to digitise it. A friend lent me a pro SVHS tape deck to do it on, but turned out it had some major issues and may have caused the damage :( Not sure. Anyway, I managed to recover as much as I could on a different tape deck. Trying to decide if it's worth digitising my other Control Lab tape in light of this upload.

Edited January 3, 2023 by hypertalking

[BatteryPoweredBricks]

I've meant to do this for a LONG time, but I wanted to make a video showcasing some of the third party software options for using the DACTA serial interface (four are shown in the video).  Better late than never!  A huge thanks to @diegobaca for his software contributions and for allowing use of his footage in the video! 

 

 

[evank]

This thread has been quiet. Anybody doing something cool with Dacta Control Center lately?

Edited July 24, 2023 by evank

[BatteryPoweredBricks]

I can't remember if I posted it on this forum or not but I did control a train layout with a refurbished POS terminal and the DACTA Control Lab .  Also my GBC Control center project used the Control Lab, I thought it was pretty cool.  Neither one of those videos did super well so I may as well post them here for DACTA CL fans .  Also I've pretty much switched to XP as I had too many crashes on Windows 98.  Not sure if that was a hardware problem though.  Pretty sure you've seen both of these Evan but without this forum thread they never would have happened!  Keep the DACTA dream alive!

 

 

[evank]

Got 100 posts now, so for for-sale ad is now live. :)  Please check it out: 

 

20 minutes ago, BatteryPoweredBricks said:

without this forum thread they never would have happened!  Keep the DACTA dream alive!

Nice!!

<Edit - Looks like I replied to the wrong thing. Sorry>

Edited July 24, 2023 by evank

[legoROBOLAB]

Good morning

I just got this voltage regulator... made for LEGO, but not from LEGO. Do any of you know him? Can you give me an explanation of its use?

Much obliged

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, legoROBOLAB said:

I just got this voltage regulator

Hmmm - are you sure that this is a voltage regulator?

There are 4 inputs and 4 outputs (LEGO style) and then a couple of questions arise;

1. Are the things between each input and output switches? Or potentiometers?
2. On the "front" (second photograph), there are three "things" - on the left a jack socket (6.3 mm?), then another type in the center, then maybe a fuse on the right?
3. On the first photograph, is this some sort of lid or bottom of the two devices shown in the second photograph? Or are these extra pieces, i.e., just battery holders (9V)?

You did not open the devices, right? A peek inside would help a lot.

Otherwise: No, never have seen something like that, but maybe others have.

Best,
Thorsten

Edited October 19, 2023 by Toastie

[evank]

It looks like something custom for the 9V system. 

[legoROBOLAB]

Thank you for your help...

I send here 3 photos of the interior, after unscrewing the 4 screws, there is a plate, two photos of both sides of it, and the last photo is of the inside of the box where the buttons are fixed. On the outside there is a switch, next to it an electricity intake (exactly the same as the control lab and RCX, as it works with their transformer) and another one whose purpose I don't know.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z8QH_c8V_M2EUCj-F3b_HvkCrHsOUskL/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gxp5h18GOh2Dq8uem3C05vPRCTdTv6B_/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOvENBU2tVW8_hlqabPS5JRDf7f4YtEA/view?usp=sharing

 

[legoROBOLAB]

Just a few more small notes from my personal observation (be careful, I don't understand anything about electronics).
When I put a 9v motor in the Imputs (it's strange, isn't it?) I regulate its speed with the highest button and invert the direction of rotation by clicking on the black button next to the imput board (which appears to be a fuse, but it isn't) . This works more or less well on all input ports, although the motor, or light or sound, works but not with the full power we see when we put a motor/light/sound on the Control Lab test port.
The ports that are designated on the device as output do nothing (yet...) and with the multimeter I check that there is no current.

Another very intriguing aspect for me, which I always try to remedy with LEGO rcx cables, I have noticed over the years that the cables on the latest boxes (for example 9794 version 2005) are made of plastic and not rubber, which means that these never they get damaged.... but... but look closely... these 2X2 LEGO sockets have a strong gap at the top, they have two holes between the pins (some of them...) and no matter how much I check mine cables from control Lab I haven't found one like this yet... this way I could date the manufacture... patience!
Finally I bought this equipment in the UK.
Another curiosity, the inputs and outputs are numbered as in interface A, which has less voltage and different plugs...

A mystery to me...

Leonardo

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ZuYVI2C7sPTOR47rT5qgNUnbdseAv3H/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mhwbBIZb9sI0XwDomoz7dzTcagjuMh12/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZkN18V_cuk62LsPI3xbt_II8hlRJQF9P/view?usp=sharing

Edited October 19, 2023 by legoROBOLAB

[evank]

Whatever you've got there, it is totally custom-built, certainly not an official Lego product.

[legoROBOLAB]

I agree.

 

[Toastie]

Any chance that you can identify the ICs? Or just show or write what's printed on them?

So the center power supply socket is of the LEGO 9V type. The left one may just be a variant to accept not only the LEGO style plug, but also a 6.3 mm jack type plug - which allows you to use a wider range of power supplies? Are these two electrically connected?

Best,
Thorsten 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Toastie

[legoROBOLAB]

Thanks for the support...

In fact, the 6.3 mm jack is connected to the current input.
As for the cables with holes in the center of the plates, I checked that the LEGO 9701 instructions had cables like that in their photos... so it is a product from the beginning of Control Lab.
I send photos with the numbers of the electronic elements.

Leonardo Verde

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T9reXSt7pueqRiFtQCeKSO8RPH3lDjDn/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jDjsdIIKCkueo-Aoy-8kU-SPBhCsO6l4/view?usp=sharing

[Toastie]

OK, now we are talking - the microchip 16F819 microcontroller can do a lot of things (it has a serial port, 5 chn 10 bit A/D converter, PWM, I2C, some memory ...) and the L293D is a 4x half-H driver

But no idea, what this beast is now doing - all things may happen in the 16F ... do you have more documents on the 16F? I guess not - but that renders any further analysis really difficult.

All the best,
Thorsten

[LH4PI]

Hi, I am new to this group , but has recently  start to try to get  the  70909  Lego Interface B  9751 set  to work with an  old Omnibook 600 C (has PC card )  running Windows 98 and original control lab software .

The plan is to assist my grandson  to learn  to run some of the teaching electronics Lego applications 

I have been able to get the software  installed  (using compact flash cards as a way to copy files  from the vintage lego Robotics  page  !!), Thanks all for bring that  page  to life !!

The problem is that  when tested the   Interface B  from 1993 it seems to not power up ( only for a very short time the "ON  LED" near the "Stop" label was flashing  ) . I get no 9 V  to the board  from  the power supply  when connecting using  the standard  AC  10 V  ~7VA  transformer 70928.  Burt I have  correct AC 10V when not connected .  It maybe could be  short circuit  from  this big  220uF 30 year  electrolytic capacitor ?.

 

But before I go further on  I want to as if anybody have  any photos or  electrical schematics  from the interior of the  Lego Interface B that could be shared ? Please share  any information  related to the electrical schematics or components used in this interface 

so it can be easier to fix the problem .

 

I have attached a picture so Yo see what I am talking about 

[alexGS]

24 minutes ago, LH4PI said:

Hi, I am new to this group , but has  recently  start to try to get  the  70909  Lego Interface B  9

Hello, welcome - you’re in the right place :)

With the Interface B disconnected from a computer, the green power light should come on and not be flashing, the red Stop light should also be on (I just checked mine now).

The Stop light goes out once the software has started and the Interface B is connected to the computer.

To get the green and red lights on, I suggest first trying another plugpack power supply in case the one you have is failing under load. Older modems/routers often have AC power supplies (9V AC). The underside of my Interface B says 9-12V AC. I think the original LEGO power supply is the same as the 9V train regulator power supply of the period.

You’re possibly right about the electrolytic capacitor that you mentioned. I’ve never seen a schematic for Interface B. I did have to replace a similar capacitor in one of my Interface As.

Edited February 18, 2024 by alexGS

[LH4PI]

 Hello AlexGS

 

I found the initial error , it was a tantalum capacitor  220uF 33V that  has shortcircuit  and as soon it was desoldered  I get 9V!  . I have not yet  mount a new one since i didn't  have such at home  but i have now  9 V stable  output and the  green power  light is coming up , and the red  Stop light  also  be on (all the time )

 

 

Unfortunately I can not get  the serial connection to  work yet  (get no connection  (get a message ) to the lego interface B , but the serial port is initialiated ok , (I can see that the program send out  "###Do you byte, when I knock?$$$"  to a terminal at 9600 baud   okay)) . 

I have no  Lego original  cable for this   interface  but  I could read that  2,3 and 5  should be used  and  I suppose  it should be a straight cable . I find a modem cable with one 9 pin female and one one 9 pin male connector  where   1-1, 2-2,3-3,4-4,5-5,6-6,7-7,8-8,9-9 sall was connected . Can you pleas check your cable  and see what  pin connector  you use  in your  cable  that works  for your interface B.

If not the cable,  then  I have to investigate further  and open up the  box more , but hopefully it is just the cable  that I hav not get right 

Best Regards Lars 

[BatteryPoweredBricks]

@LH4PI Actually it uses a male to female null modem cable, the hardest cable to find .  I did find some on Amazon after a bit of searching

[Toastie]

51 minutes ago, BatteryPoweredBricks said:

the hardest cable to find

TLG's tricksters - always in for a special treat, aren't they? Particularly when it comes to cables and electronics

Well, one of these lill' sub-D 9 pin female/male null modem adapters + your straight through serial extension cord will do as well. Amazon has them and many other sources (Ali Ex for a fraction of the Amazon price of course)

Best,
Thorsten

[alexGS]

3 hours ago, LH4PI said:

 Hello AlexGS

Unfortunately I can not get  the serial connection to  work yet  (get no connection  (get a message ) to the lego interface B , but the serial port is initialiated ok , (I can see that the program send out  "###Do you byte, when I knock?$$$"  to a terminal at 9600 baud   okay)) . 

Thanks Lars, sorry I didn’t respond sooner (I’m on the other side of the world) but I see Thorsten and BPB have got here first with the right answers  🙂 I found a null-modem cable for sale locally but it’s also possible to make your own with a pinout like https://www.delock.com/infothek/Nullmodemkabel_RS-232/nullmodemkabel_e.html

 

 

Edited February 19, 2024 by alexGS

[LH4PI]

Thanks for reply,but what is exactly the minimum pin to pin configuration between female and male to be sure .

 

a Straight cable 2 to 2 , 3 to 3 and 5 to 5?

 

Best Regards 

Lars 

[BatteryPoweredBricks]

2 minutes ago, LH4PI said:

Thanks for reply,but what is exactly the minimum pin to pin configuration between female and male to be sure .

 

a Straight cable 2 to 2 , 3 to 3 and 5 to 5?

 

Best Regards 

Lars 

2 to 3, 3 to 2 and 5 to 5

[LH4PI]

Thanks again for the Quick response , To clerify O did test if course the " normal"  2 to 3 and 3-2 configuration  first , without Success, that why then tested the extension cable approach since it was unclear for me what actually is needed . So if anybody has a cable that works from Lego , what pins are used and how is they  connected.

I hate to dismantled the box  and hook up the oscilliscipe to find why I did not get serial communication to later find out that I have the wrong cable !

Thanks again