Dacta Control Lab Software

[Dazmundo]

I'm really pleased that a post I made 8 years ago is still going strong and hopefully helping some people out. I don't work at the same school anymore as I did back then so don't have access to all the gear, I so should have taken it with me, I bet it's either sitting in a cupboard gathering dust or has been thrown out!

[evank]

2 hours ago, Dazmundo said:

I'm really pleased that a post I made 8 years ago is still going strong and hopefully helping some people out. I don't work at the same school anymore as I did back then so don't have access to all the gear, I so should have taken it with me, I bet it's either sitting in a cupboard gathering dust or has been thrown out!

It is pretty cool that your post worked out this way!

There is a lot more technical information that I hope to get online soon. I will post about it here.

[Chris1982]

Hello all.

I just purchased such an interface on eBay, because i wanted to control my robot no longer by 2 control centers...

The seller did not have the Macintosh-Software for it.

Does anyone still have the software and could send me a copy or a working link?

Thanks a lot!

[GianCann]

1 hour ago, Chris1982 said:

Does anyone still have the software and could send me a copy or a working link?

Try this

https://controllab.io/

[Chris1982]

Hello GianCann.

Thanks a lot for the link - so I can check if the hardware works, but i would like to get the Software for OLD Macintosh-computers.

Those oldtimers are running on MacOS 7 - 9 and had 68030 / 68040  or PowerPC (Risc) processors.

 

[hypertalking]

On 7/14/2020 at 8:03 AM, Chris1982 said:

Thanks a lot for the link - so I can check if the hardware works, but i would like to get the Software for OLD Macintosh-computers.

Those oldtimers are running on MacOS 7 - 9 and had 68030 / 68040  or PowerPC (Risc) processors.

 

Hi Chris, I'm looking for the same. No luck so far. I've only turned up Control Lab 1.0 and 1.2 for MS-DOS or Windows.

 

I've asked on one Macintosh forum and I'm going to keep looking. If I find it I'll post here again :)

[Coder Shah]

Hi @Dazmundo thanks for this!

What do you think about posting this in the Mindstorms and Robotics forum? I think many would be interested?

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/forum/186-lego-mindstorms-and-robotics/

Edited September 8, 2020 by Coder Shah

[hypertalking]

I've been in touch directly with someone at LCSI, who created the Dacta Control Lab software. They searched their storage but only turned up 5.25" floppy disks for the Apple II version of TC Logo, not the Control Lab software for Macintosh unfortunately.

[legoROBOLAB]

You can find the software here, version for MS-DOS, windows 3.1 and windows 95:

https://archive.org/details/vintagelegorobotics

 

 

[Toastie]

@Jim, @Coder Shah IMHO, this entire thread should be moved to the Mindstorms and Robotics forum, don't you think?

Best
Thorsten

[Coder Shah]

@Toastie I do agree with you, but @Dazmundo needs to post the link here as he is the original poster:

I did post a link to his post there though.

[alexGS]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:35 AM, hypertalking said:

Hi Chris, I'm looking for the same. No luck so far. I've only turned up Control Lab 1.0 and 1.2 for MS-DOS or Windows.

 

I've asked on one Macintosh forum and I'm going to keep looking. If I find it I'll post here again :)

A few weeks ago, I managed to buy the original Macintosh Control Lab software - two 3.5” disks, black-and-white and colour versions - from a Bricklink seller. I was unreasonably excited about this, especially as I’m not really a Mac user :D just want the experience… I’d been looking for some time… I’d even seen the request in Macintosh Garden, and the Robolab software offered there. I have Robolab 2.5 on the way as well.

While waiting for the disks to make their way to me in New Zealand (one more week I hope), I’ve also bought a PowerBook G3 (early ‘Wallstreet’) which should be ideal with its serial port. It’s probably still a month away. However there isn’t a floppy drive, so my recently-acquired PowerBook 100 curio will join in the fun to read the disk and make an image file etc. which will be uploaded to Archive.org in due course :)

Cheers

-Alex

 

On 7/14/2020 at 7:03 PM, Chris1982 said:

Hello GianCann.

Thanks a lot for the link - so I can check if the hardware works, but i would like to get the Software for OLD Macintosh-computers.

Those oldtimers are running on MacOS 7 - 9 and had 68030 / 68040  or PowerPC (Risc) processors.

 

See post above - I have the software  on its way to me and I will share soon :)

Edited August 19, 2021 by alexGS

[hypertalking]

Alex this is fantastic news! Your BrickLink alerts are clearly better than mine :)

Good luck with the imaging - be very careful. Please do test the floppy drive with disks you can afford to 'lose' before putting in the Control Lab disks!

I'm very very excited. It's clearly incredibly hard to find software.

Thanks!

[Glendene32]

On 9/3/2012 at 3:01 PM, Jetro said:

I'd love to have a look at it!

 

On 9/6/2020 at 7:35 PM, hypertalking said:

Hi Chris, I'm looking for the same. No luck so far. I've only turned up Control Lab 1.0 and 1.2 for MS-DOS or Windows.

 

I've asked on one Macintosh forum and I'm going to keep looking. If I find it I'll post here again :)

 

On 7/12/2020 at 8:45 PM, Chris1982 said:

Hello all.

I just purchased such an interface on eBay, because i wanted to control my robot no longer by 2 control centers...

The seller did not have the Macintosh-Software for it.

Does anyone still have the software and could send me a copy or a working link?

Thanks a lot!

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Glendene32

[alexGS]

On 8/20/2021 at 12:44 AM, hypertalking said:

Alex this is fantastic news! Your BrickLink alerts are clearly better than mine :)

Good luck with the imaging - be very careful. Please do test the floppy drive with disks you can afford to 'lose' before putting in the Control Lab disks!

I'm very very excited. It's clearly incredibly hard to find software.

Thanks!

Cheers for your enthusiasm, I feel bad for not seeing this post sooner. Eurobricks had an old email address that I can’t see any more, so I missed the notifications.

A progress report at last - the package finally arrived a few days ago after nearly two months in transit.

I will upload the unmodified disk images tomorrow, and also a modified disk that I have been working on - see below.

Both disks (B&W and colour versions of Control Lab 1.0 for Macintosh) read perfectly in my Powerbook 100 (a story in itself repairing that thing but at least the floppy drive, which is external, was fine).

Both versions display identically on a B&W Mac, so I think the only reason for the B&W version is that it fits on an 800K disk. The colour version is 1MB and supplied on a 1.4MB disk. As my PC can read the 1.4MB disk into an image using HFV Explorer, I’ve chosen to work with that version. I cannot get the 800K disk image into the PC without corrupting it, though I can image a 1.4MB Mac disk with the 800K image file copied onto it. Hopefully, anyone trying to use a Mac Plus will also have another Mac to read the 1.4MB image and write the 800K disk.

The colour version on the 1.4MB disk appeared to include some project files (Untitled, Untitledt, FAST CAR), but none had any procedures (code) or interfaces (pages); only the setup page. It became clear that these are not original files; uploading that disk image as-is would have been confusing and useless.

The B&W version had no project files at all; just the program.

The Windows 95 Control Lab (downloaded from the archive) includes four interesting sample files (Conveyer Belt, Wheelchair, Robot arm, Scanner) whose code and interface pages are not described in the written materials and not found on the Macintosh disks.

Therefore, I am transcribing these into the Macintosh version. Even though that may be confusing, it will not be useless. There were subtle bugs to solve, small differences.

One of the samples (for the robot arm) in the Windows Control Lab is far more ambitious than it first appears. It is a program that records program code into a text box, which the program can then run. When you click the buttons to move the arm, the program measures the angular distance moved OR the time moved (as applicable for the two motors) and records that into the text. The “parse” function is a mindbender, and so is the error trapping provided to run the recorded code which the user can also modify in the text box (hence, error messages are passed through to a temporary text box). Crazy stuff! The “scanner” program promises to be even more exciting, as it modifies a picture shape on the fly…

The other crazy aspect is the development platform I’m using. Obviously, the monochrome Powerbook 100 was limited, so instead I have installed Shapeshifter on my Amiga 1200, using two CompactFlash cards, one for PC-card file transfer and the other for internal ‘hard drive’. Finally the 40MHz 68040 accelerator card with 32MB RAM has come in useful - it gives me the speed of a Macintosh Quadra 650, except for the graphics, which have to be emulated and are relatively slow (0.8x the speed in 16 colours, 0.48x speed in 256 colours).

I got Mac OS 7.6 installed and the Control Lab software runs perfectly, with the interface connected to the Amiga’s serial port (9-25pin adapter).

One obvious limitation, which became particularly apparent at a larger screen resolution, is that the Macintosh version does not allow the procedures/interface window to be resized - it is fixed to 512x342 (suitable for a Mac Plus), though the small command window and tool palette can be moved/resized outside this.

I have the Powerbook G3 which has just arrived, but that isn’t yet as easy to work with as the Amiga, due to a lack of any way to transfer files in/out of the machine. No USB etc.

Even a simple thing like the picture background of the samples was a bit of a challenge - I took a screenshot on the Windows 98 PC, cleaned it up in Paint, saved a bitmap file, copied it via a USB drive to a Windows 10 PC that can write it to a CF card for the Amiga to read, copying it to the Amiga’s hard drive from where it can be copied to the Macintosh partition (only when Shapeshifter is running), so that Graphicconverter can open the BMP and then it can be copied and pasted into Control Lab… LOL. I did something similar for the procedure text, stripping out the CR/LF etc.

I forgot to mention that the data files from the Windows version obviously aren’t compatible with the Mac version - I did try that first, setting creator type etc. but they locked up the application trying to open them. 

Just a couple more of the four interesting samples to do tomorrow - then I will put the resulting disk image into the Internet Archive, along with the original disk image with no files.

I will leave the creation of the ‘standard’ project files (i.e. those created by following steps documented in the written materials) for others to replicate, since that can be done without the Windows version running.

-Alex

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by alexGS

[hypertalking]

This is great info. I love that you're using an Amiga ha. I have a 500+ with a 68020 accelerator and CF slots, but never emulated a Mac on it.

When you have the Internet Archive link please do post it, I'm itching to have a go :)

[alexGS]

On 8/22/2021 at 12:19 AM, Glendene32 said:

 

 

 

 

On 9/20/2021 at 7:25 AM, hypertalking said:

This is great info. I love that you're using an Amiga ha. I have a 500+ with a 68020 accelerator and CF slots, but never emulated a Mac on it.

When you have the Internet Archive link please do post it, I'm itching to have a go :)

Finally uploaded to

https://archive.org/details/macintosh-control-lab-1.0

Sorry for the wait!

I managed to get the Scanner example debugged and working reasonably well, though not quite as well as the Windows PC version. Results a bit fuzzy… may need tuning of the parameters. A complex program that I haven’t had time to fully understand.

Have fun and let me know how you get on!

Incidentally if running with an Amiga 500+/Shapeshifter, you’ll most likely be limited to only a few colours due to the ECS chipset. With AGA, it runs well in 16 colours but I suspect with the A500+ the bitplane conversions might be too intensive.

In fact, the Colour version can still be used in a black-and-white Mac environment (looks identical to the B&W version; the latter is just smaller to fit on an 800K disk).

Cheers

-Alex

[alexGS]

On 7/13/2020 at 7:45 AM, Chris1982 said:

The seller did not have the Macintosh-Software for it.

Does anyone still have the software and could send me a copy or a working link?

Hello Chris, please see https://archive.org/details/macintosh-control-lab-1.0 

Cheers

-Alex

[legoROBOLAB]

Thanks

Leonardo

 

[alexGS]

4 hours ago, legoROBOLAB said:

Thanks

Leonardo

 

You’re most welcome :)

I think the Windows version is technically better (multiple, resizable windows, faster code?) - but the Macintosh version has a nice look to it. I’ve always liked the small font used on the Mac. 

-Alex

[Chris1982]

6 hours ago, alexGS said:

Hello Chris, please see https://archive.org/details/macintosh-control-lab-1.0 

Cheers

-Alex

GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS A LOT !!!

I will install it this weekend (on Performa 200 AND on Colorclassic).

[alexGS]

58 minutes ago, Chris1982 said:

GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS A LOT !!!

I will install it this weekend (on Performa 200 AND on Colorclassic).

Hehe - 512x342 and 512x384, so it will be screen-filling for those two :D

It might save you some puzzlement if I point out that to select objects, you shift-click them. I fumbled for some time. The most subtle feature of the lot is that a motor in the setup page can be associated with an Angle sensor, which will mean OnFor runs for units of angle, not the default time units. Feel free to discuss how-tos here.

-Alex

[Toastie]

Guys, this is terrific. Just my world.

@alexGS, @Chris1982, @legoROBOLAB, @hypertalking

Did you see this thread? Sure, I started it, but this is absolutely >not< the point; it is about all that (almost) forgotten "how to" ... 8 bit ... Amigas, C64s ... whatever ancient electronics could and more importantly cn do.  

8 bit or not - your stuff is of historical dimensions ... So cool!

Whenever you find out all the "possibilities" ... and machines to run that software on ...

Best wishes,
Thorsten 

 

 

[alexGS]

2 hours ago, Toastie said:

8 bit or not - your stuff is of historical dimensions ... So cool!

Whenever you find out all the "possibilities" ... and machines to run that software on ...

Thanks, Thorsten - I’ve posted a couple of videos on your other thread which you’ll probably like :)

We’ll keep to the Control Lab stuff over here, as this thread was useful to me in understanding the Control Lab software options.

-Alex

Edited September 21, 2021 by alexGS

[Rob Pickering]

Hello, My name is Rob Pickering, and I am new to this forum. I am hoping that someone may be able to give me some guidance. I have read through all the threads, but can’t quite sort out a solution to my problem.

I have found a Lego Dacta control interface 70909 (year 1992) in my loft, together with plenty of sensors. Unfortunately, I have no software to operate it. I have an hp computer with Windows 8.1 with a RS232 serial interface. I would be grateful if you could tell me:

1. What software I require,

2. Where I can obtain this software,

3. Approximately how much it will cost.

The Lego “Engineer” software looked very good, but unfortunately, it seems to be no longer available. The other software, seemed to exclude Windows 8.1.

Now that I have retired, I would love to get back into technical Lego and to get my grand children involved in it too. Thank you for allowing me to post this on your forum.