Jedi Temple Mafia - Day One

[Brickdoctor]

Now people suddenly gang up on Master Windu, for suspecting Corobb?

That's not the reason. This case was originally presented to me by Coryn in private, but as he appears to be asleep, I will paraphrase his breakdown of Mace's statements:

You do Master Corobb? Will you be so kind as to enlighten us all?

First, he repeats a suspicion others had already stated. Repeating important things that others have said is an easy way for Scum to appear to contribute something to the discussion.

Yes I know, but I still found it odd. Metagaming right out of Mafia School lol

Which reminded me of a recording I listened to in a galaxy far far away, about a Yakuza family and how they lynched a scum after the person made a silly post in the discussion topic.

This is a very defensive statement. Someone calls out his behavior, so he concedes the point and then provides an excuse for his action.

Yes, I don't think that is nearly enough for a lynch, just something to dwell on is all.

Quick to judgement/anger is not the Jedi way.

This statement, again, is defensive: "Oh, I know, you're right, I agree with you, and I was just pointing something out, and I wasn't really doing what you said was suspicious." Players who often agree with others are often Scum trying to win others' favor.

You're quick to dismiss the accusations on yourself by changing the topic. But at the same time you seem to be trying a very pro-town game, so I am still not sure about you.

He looks like he's accusing someone, but then he claims uncertainty, continuing to sit on the fence, and leaving himself the option of voting or not voting for his 'suspect', based on what the Town appears to be doing, and providing himself an excuse if the one he accused turns out Town.

And a continuation of the breakdown, by myself:

Exactly my thoughts Master Corobb, and what I was doing. None of us can sit idly by and expect the sith to root themselves out; usually Day 1 is an easy day for most scum. As many people have yet to speak up, I hope they do soon and try to add something to this discussion as a whole.

So he basically repeats what others have said and condemns those who don't add anything to the discussion, when, in fact, he didn't add anything to the discussion, either.

Yes Coryn, I was pushing Master Corobb quite a bit earlier, call it a gut feeling but his posts didn't sit right with me. So I inquired further when others seemed to let it go. I also criticized Euna.

Oh, now it's no longer something suspicious or something odd or something to dwell on, now it's just a "gut feeling".

is it really necessary for you to communicate like this R2?

Also, Ahsoka your manic defensive posts are suspicious. Firstly, after several people explained why not voting would be a detriment to the town, you continued to push the issue. Second, your defensive floundering after people started to take notice.

Even still, if you were scum I must ask why you'd continue to push the issue as you did? It seems akin to shooting yourself with a blaster in the foot.

Other than these two people, I'm a little annoyed that so many haven't even spoken up yet/or haven't contributed much. Like: Voolvif Monn, Barriss Offee, Kit Fisto, Hugar Ssiht, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Quinlan Vos, Saesee Tiin, Eeth Koth, Shaak Ti, Plo Koon.

Again, repetition of accusations others have made.

Well there isn't a whole lot to say that hasn't been said so far.

There's always something to add. There are multiple sides to this discussion. Stop sitting on the fence, decide what your view is, and tell us why you think what you think. Argue with us. Discuss with us. Do something other than repeat what we've said.

[Scubacarrot]

snip

Thank you droid, for explaining, perhaps it would have been a good idea to have this in the thread in the first place.

Alright I can see where people are coming from now. Still, the case is at it's best... filmsy. I agree he has not said anything helpful, but neither have others, in fact, there have been multiple people that have said either nothing, next to nothing or nothing meaningful. That said, I sincerely hope Master Windu will grace us with his presence once more, and explain WHY he has been so unhelpful up to this point, and if he has anything insightful to add, the same is for the others that are quiet, by being quiet, you only help the scum, and generally make it harder to see who to trust and who to lynch.

Now, I have something to say about Corobb's last statement, which I could not help but notice: He claims the reason people went for Ashoka was because she sticked by her (misguided) suggestion after some people said it was a bad idea. And the reason people went for Windu was because he does not stick to anything.

Now, is it just me or are these opposites, it is starting more and more to sound like Corobb is a Sith, looking for an easy lynch to start their day off.

FoS: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

[swils]

Ashoka: the no lynch stragey won't help, even though people have said why it won't work she continued to push for it.

In my padawan's defense, after it was pointed out that such an approach would do us no good (by others, no less. I failed her as a teacher ), I do not believe she pushed for it anymore, only explained her reasoning when questioned about it.

Now, as for my own suspicions,

Ili Seosty - It's been said before, but being so, so very quick to cast your vote (sounding quite confident in doing so, no less), with no reasoning of your own, and without ever really participating? Bah. We've all been using the "FoS" tag to cast our suspicions, and even if you are busy tomorrow for the rest of the afternoon, you still have 48+ hours-ish from now the later part of the evening in which to cast your actual vote.

Aayla Secura - So quick to accuse, and to do so based on an error on your own part? Surely, you could have approached me in a more inquisitive manner, rather than accusatory. Although I'll admit, I did set myself up to be quite the bandwagon candidate, and couldn't blame you for seizing an early opportunity (if my suspicions hold any truth).

Plo Koon - While more active than most in our Order, he seems to only be echoing that which is already stated. Active, but not terribly useful.

Foul Moudama - While you do offer lots of thoughts and opinions, they seem very focused, almost tunnel-visioned. Surely, there are others who have spoken today who are worthy of at least some consideration? You offer decent enough insight, but why do you continue to pick almost exclusively on Ahsoka while neglecting others' actions? Followed by such an early vote..

[Fred Daniel Yam]

Seeing that there has been much debate on this, I cannot vote for anyone without any shred of proof. I think that Master(?) Corrob has been thinking over this and counterplotting counterplots for counterplots and thus I wish to: FoS: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

[Palathadric]

Wow! So much talking going on already. I miss a few hours of activity and there is kilometres of posts saying, in all honesty, more or less worthless information, but as far as I can tell this is how the situation normally is on day 1. Forgive my late arrival. It seeemed I was locked out of the chamber for a while, and then I decided to go and meditate instead of waiting for it to open, as I had no idea when someone would open it. I would like to review some of the things going on presently. Forgive me if I miss something, but there is so much that has been written that there is a chance that I miss something.

Firstly is the band wagon going against Ahsoka. I really don't think there is much in it. I would say that Ahsoka's sticking to her point is less scummy than it would've been if she had just backed down. I think she is just a confused Jedi. However, perhaps she knew somebody would catch onto this and that is precisely why she kept pursuing her way of thinking. In any case, she is somebody to look out for. I have to point out that I disagree with Roron Corobb that giving up is a trait of bad guys. If you look at my last experience in this sort of situation, all the good guys gave up whereas the bad guy (a certain dubious, Arab boy) was the only one who didn't give up, and ended up being the scum. The fact is that the scum will almost always have at least somebody, one of their own, to stand up for them, whereas good guys are on their own and if public opinion is against them, then they have no one to count on. Hence they give up.

R2D2: I really think the crap that has been thrown against him has been useless. I mean, seriously, if he were scum, why would he invite suspicion on himself with his beeps? I would say voting against him is ridiculous. He has made some interesting contributions.

Anakin Skywalker: Originally, I was convinced he was scum, but as more and more people began bandwagoning against him, I became unsure. Now very few people seem on his tail, and it seems almost entirely because a certain individual felt that he was a Jedi. Again, someone to look out for.

Mace Windu: I don't know what to say about him, as he has been worthless. Although he is probably one of the highest suspects on my list.

Ili Seosty: Definitely suspicious coming in here and voting as soon as the voting option went up. I don't mean to just repeat what so many have said, but I definitely think that it is between her and Windu as of now. Also, somebody mentioned that it must have taken guts to be the first to vote. I think that is ridiculous as there was already a bandwagon of FoS against Ahsoka when she voted. It is not unlikely that she just wanted to appear to be taking a brave step, when actually she was fairly certain that Ahsoka would be lynched.

Foul Moudama: Suspicious as well, but I wouldn't say so as much so as those I have already mentioned.

Did I miss anyone? I should think not.

As of now I point my finger towards Seosty.

FoS: Ili Seosty: Sisco

It's quite interesting how things are developing here though. As far as the tie-voting goes, perhaps the person backing it would like to read up what it says in the rules, if he hasn't already. Pretty much so long as even just one of us votes there can be no tie vote. Somebody is getting lynched today, unless no one votes, but already two people have, so that can't happen.

[ADHO15]

Apologies if I've seemed silent, but with such a lot of discussion missed while meditating and then to catch up on afterwards, I am not always able to chip when I'd like, though this is still rarely, I'll admit.

I do agree with Master Fisto that we shouldn't automatically jump on the ones who were trying to spark a conversation to try and expose the Sith.

I agree. Her actions have indeed been somewhat suspicious. I just don't think she's scum. The way she pleads her case makes her seem more like she's been trying to find a way to help, and failing, than intentionally trying to manipulate the group into not voting. I think if she was a scum, she'd be more subtle about it, and suggest it when it came up as opposed to having it be her opening statement. If she had waited for it to come up in the conversation she could have said: "I misunderstood what you were trying to say, I was just pointing out that this is how you would have to do it if you wanted to do it. I never actually thought we should do it, it's a bad idea." and gotten of Scott free, as opposed to what's going on now.

I'm glad to see others agree with me. From what I've seen of Padawan Tano's defence in the hours since my last point, very little has made me think anything other than she was just trying to help and make a different option or idea clear to everyone, instead of just spouting the appropriate, but rather useless comments about losing one of the Order/the threat from the Sith.

is it really necessary for you to communicate like this R2?

You are by no means the only one to have brought up such a point, but I was quoting you anyway so...

I do not think that the astromech deserved all of the accusations/suspicions/complaints that he received over the past few hours. I'm not saying that inane beeping is constructive, but at least ten people must have complained about this after he did it. This is not necessary after one or two people have voiced the opinion and R2 had not done it again since. Perhaps he should be more vocal (usefully) to counter the amount of suspicion he has unreasonably amassed, but there is time yet. Perhaps it was merely a way for a scummy droid to contribute without saying anything, but merely going on and on about how his beeps make him look like a good candidate for lynching is neither true nor helpful, in my opinion.

Other than these two people, I'm a little annoyed that so many haven't even spoken up yet/or haven't contributed much. Like: Voolvif Monn, Barriss Offee, Kit Fisto, Hugar Ssiht, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Quinlan Vos, Saesee Tiin, Eeth Koth, Shaak Ti, Plo Koon.

Did I miss anyone?

In a way I'm glad for that. I think that if all ten people who you effectively called useless were major and vocal contributors to the debate, many ideas would be lost in the huge and rapidly-progressing discussion that would follow. I think that people who listen, keep a clear head and gather a few genuine ideas and opinions before chipping in is a valuable way to contribute.

I would like to address this. If Ahsoka was scum, she would be encouraging a lynch, not suggesting we should not have one. As for the suspicion list, it is alright listing those who have not spoken, but you have to factor in time zones and the maintaince. You speak a lot, but there is never a solid point in them. R2-D2 may be adding pointless stuff, but has just added a suspicion that has been backed up with a reason.

This is a good point. The Sith know that we are more likely to lynch one of our own than one of them when down to pure probability, and so we'd effectively be helping them by doing so, so proposing a no-vote situation is not in their favour at all, so I'm unsure why proposing such an idea makes Ahsoka appear scummy to some of you.

Your other points seem valid too.

[JackJonespaw]

A whole lot of talking has been commencing since I have retired. But, before saying this, I have archived all of importance that the two main suspicious Jedi have said and analyzed them:

Ahsoka Tano:

Thank you for the insight Sky guy. I agree we'll need to strike hard and fast, but I doubt it is as easy as simply reviewing security footage from around the temple.

Gee Yoda sure seems like a hard megablocks, considering that he wants us to vote somebody off before any real intelligence can be gathered. Hopefully somebody will slip up, and make that an easy decision. But in the event that doesn’t happen I would like to point out that if nobody votes we won’t have to vote anybody off today. If I've interpreted the rules correctly we'd all be given 5 penalty votes tomorrow. Of course we could only ever not vote once, and it is based off of the assumption that we will have made new insights by tomorrow, but it may be better than blindly voting somebody off today.

Here she questions why we have to vote, which is where the whole "no-lynch" thing starts.

Of course right now it is too early to be deciding our final course of action for today. I would like to clarify that the intention of my previous posts was only to help lay out all of our options onto the table. Voting definitely is our best weapon against the scum, and I will surely vote if I feel that the evidence is sufficient enough against that party. However voting for someone based off of little to no evidence just seems silly to me. From the stories I’ve read lynches made with little evidence tend to result in innocent blood being split, with most of these lynches resulting from band wagons.

I wish that I had something more useful to say. If anyone has any questions for me I'll be meditating.

Here she basically contradicts what she has last said by saying that she'll vote only if she finds someone suspicious.

To be fair it was me who originally suggested not voting.

This is just saying that she came up with the idea of "no-voting".

Of course that poses its own set of dangers. At this stage in "life" it is unlikely that anyone can truly trust anyone . But any discussion would be good discussion.

This is actually pretty helpful, as she gives a good reason for holding back from voting, instead of just not.

Thank you for the list C-3PO, but I think we should give everyone some more time before we do start questioning their absences. The temple was being cleaned for about 7 hours not too long ago, they may not have had a chance to speak yet.

Is she defending some people, or just trying to be fair?

That is true although you ignore the possibility that we may end up voting one of our own more "powerful" members. Let me just restate that when the time comes to vote I WILL VOTE if I deem that somebody is scummy enough. I should also mention that there is a difference between advocating for something versus laying it out onto the table as an option.

Here she says that she might vote, or she might take the five vote penalties.

That's an interesting point of view. I wonder... let's pretend that I hadn't mentioned the idea of not voting, and being that everybody else here seems dead set on voting we'll assume that no one else brings the idea up. If we also assume that the scum make no obvious slip ups by voting time so that we would have no idea regard what would everybody’s course of action be then? Would we just throw a chance cube to determine who we vote for?

Maybe I’m just being naïve, but I predict that after a bit of deliberation a couple people with some very loose reasons would step up and place their votes, followed by a tidal wave of “band wagoners”. With that a person is lynched, and if tomorrow we find out that that person is in fact a Jedi, everyone say “damn let’s hope for better luck next time”.

I’m intrigued as to why everyone so flat out decided that we would lynch. I’m still waiting for more of the day to pass before passing my final judgement regarding my vote here.

Ahsoka asks what would happen if the scum made no slip-ups. Well, looking at archives of situations similar to our, the scum always slip up, but it's the other people's job to find out who slipped up in the most scummy way.

You avoided my question what would we do in the event that we do not have any sort of suspect, yet we must vote? You're right in that I don't get how we could learn much infomation from a random band wagon lynch.

Right now, it seems like two people are the most scummy, so we'll have to vote.

I don't see how I could have brought it up "too early", there generally isn’t a whole lot to talk about on day 1. I honestly thought that it would be seen as at least somewhat useful to perhaps a few people that hadn't realized that we don’t have to vote.

My post certainly have gotten quite a bit of attention, I still think it is rather irrational to not even consider not voting. I can't help but think that some of my accusers don't have the Jedi order’s interests at heart.

Here is a plan that is possible she is trying to do. Maybe she is trying to get someone to not vote, then vote right before the deadline, so that that person will have penalty votes. Somehow she might "notice" suspicious activity and try to get that person lynched, with five extra votes.

For the last time I was never dedicated to the no lynch plan in the first place I only ever pointed out that it existed. All I've done afterwards is to defend myself. The only intention of my posts was to keep our options open. Can somebody show me point to where I explictly stated that we shouldn't vote?

She never said that she didn't want people to vote, she just implied it.

Is there anybody else that feels that way?

This is a worthless post that I feel makes no sense and adds nothing at all to the conversation.

I've tried my best to address my accusers. I just want to see if there are any lingering questions that I could maybe answer to prevent this wrongful lynch. You must believe me in that I was only trying to help I just didn't want to say "oh no the Sith are here how terrible", now I fear that I may have hindered the town before the game has even had a chance to really start .

Oh, is this that "don't vote on me, I was only trying to help" plan? This is possibly the most scummy thing that she's said yet.

No that wasn't the only reason brought it up. At the time I thought it would serve some purpose, and maybe could get us past the usual day one dribble . It certainly has done that as far as I could tell, thanks to my stupidity today's behavior and voting patterns should be quite informative.

If anyone has any questions or any thing to say to me please do (in private if you want).

I'm pretty sure that this wasn't her origonal plan, but I might be willing to let this one go.

I don't want to give up, but I just don't know what else to say. Being day one and all I don't expect any sudden evidence to surface.

I made a mistake in my continual defence of my no lynch plan. I wish I could have a second chance perhaps an investigation to prove my innocence, but its up to guys to decide what to do.

This is why I always make sure that what I want to say is what I'm about to say, to avoid all of this accusation mess.

This is all that Ahsoka has said. This makes me very suspicious of her. I'm not sure if this is her first time in this situation, and it is a newbie screw-up, or there is a deeper plan.

Ili Seosty

Young Seosty hasn't said much, but the first thing she says of importance is quite suspicous:

I'm tired of listening to you people talk.

Vote: Ashoka Tano/MacK

The time for action is now, and Ashoka has me convinced that she's turned to the dark side.

The first vote and only the third thing that she has said. This, like Ahsoka, might be a mistake, but I'm not completely sure. Either A, she truly has decided this, or B, she just wanted to vote to not get the penalty. I'm inclined to say B.

Well my situation is somewhat like Master Moudama's (who apparently thinks I'm good enough to be a master!). I have an extremely busy day of training ahead of me, and my small youngling body can't stay up extremely late. I figured that the vote would get rolling soon anyhow, so I wanted to get it over with before I retired, in case she was convicted while I was sleeping and I had no chance to vote.

OOC- In other words, I have a crapload of things to do IRL tomorrow, I'm tired, and I just need to go to bed. See you guys later.

This explains why she voted earlier. I won't let go of all suspicion of her, but this takes her off my main suspect list.

Therefore, based on this evidence of the two main suspects, I'll place my vote.

VOTE: Ahsoka Tano (MacK)

[Scubacarrot]

snip

Wow. Just wow.

I don't even know what I just read, but yeah, you basically have read NOTHING of what other people have said, come up with NO reasoning of your own, FAIL to see that someone said "Im busy tomorrow" when we still had 48 hours (2 days, derp) and now you wasted your vote. Good job.

[Flare]

OOC: I'm sorry I have arrived on the scene late, I was having some problems yesterday with my internet so I wasn't able to sign on and participate, I will read all 13 pages now and try to leave some useful commentary as soon as I finish Thanks for understanding.

[Masked Builder]

Vote Tally:

Ashoka Tano (MacK) 3 Votes - Sisco, Kadabra, JackJonespaw

I would like to formally ask Master Yoda if he could add a proxy vote option. What do you say, Master?

"Discussed this will be. Probably allowed, it will become."

Yes, but I believe the Day ends when a conviction is reached. That's it, right?

"No, the Jedi with the most votes, lynched they will be."

[Flare]

OOC: OK, I just finished reading the whole thing and I'd like to briefly explain my opinion of the situation.

There are three people who, in my opinion, are acting in a suspicious manner that could mean that they are a sithspawn.

R2-D2 (fhomess) constantly placing random comments in his beep language is annoying and distracting, it confused a lot of the discussion, by this "innocent" playing of beeping and booping, and I think that if he was a scum that he would be doing his job well...

Ili Seosty (Sisco) has been acting funny the whole time... I don't agree with this bandwagon of votes against Ahsoka, it seems that she started with that early vote to start the bandwagon to get attention away from herself. Personally I'm not sure if Ahsoka is fine or not, but I just think that jumping the bandwagon if you're doing that just because you don't have time. I'd recommend to the rest of the players to wait to leave their voting until closer to the end of the voting period.

Foul Moudama (Kadabra) also voted pretty early and has also been acting pretty suspicious.

As a member of the High Council, I would like to encourage everyone to stay on their guard and try to figure out who is the scum, without leaning too heavily on any member - I see that some of you are saying that you are doing stuff because C-3PO suggested it, and are leaning too much on his advice rather than thinking for yourselves - remember, the force is stronger than droids

[Darth Nihilus]

You weren't confusing in your statements, you were confused. Your hasty accusation, as well as the example you provided to back it up, were based on a false assumption on your own part.

Don't take blame for the continuation of the matter, that one was on me. If folks would read pay attention to everything that has transpired before commenting/questioning things, then there would be much, much less repetition, so I would advise everyone to give that a try, as well.

I actually believe that there has been plenty of real discussion already today (as well as potential for plenty more). The topic of the discussions may not be useful, but the discussions themselves, how people have handled themselves both on the offensive and defensive, can be very useful, I think.

I was both confusing and confused. As I said, I thought you were addressing a tie on any day, not just today. Yes, indeed, I agree with your second statement. I have been a bit guilty of this too, but I do try to stay up-to-date on the goings-on in this conversation. As to your third statement: I do agree, but mostly that first discussion was roleplaying and discussing the rules talking about the sets of rules Master Yoda has set out for us.

Jumping on Anakin for bringing up the tie vote plan.

Yes, I did jump on him, because the tie vote plan was almost as useless as his Padawan's no-voting plan. I say almost because with his plan we would still lynch someone and possibly get a Sith.

Aayla Secura: I believe her erratic behavior speaks for itself.

Hmmm? Erratic? How have I been erratic? Please explain yourself further, Coryn.

[ADHO15]

R2-D2 (fhomess) constantly placing random comments in his beep language is annoying and distracting, it confused a lot of the discussion, by this "innocent" playing of beeping and booping, and I think that if he was a scum that he would be doing his job well...

The droid has begun to translate, yet he still gets complaints from you! Refer to my post above to see how I find your behaviour annoying and distracting.

This is why you (in a generic sense, but based on Shaak Ti's actions) shouldn't scan through 13 pages in 40 minutes: you see that lots of people say the same thing and go along with it just to fit in.

[Peanuts]

Here is my recap:

-long post with no content-

You have just summed up about the whole day so far. Thank you, but we were all here, and those who weren't can listen to the holorecordings.

You only said what others have discussed before and you didn't arrive at any conclusion at all, so, you have just done a long, but unhelpful statement. Congratulations, you have earned yourself an FoS: Ithra Srryn/Macoco

Now, I have something to say about Corobb's last statement, which I could not help but notice: He claims the reason people went for Ashoka was because she sticked by her (misguided) suggestion after some people said it was a bad idea. And the reason people went for Windu was because he does not stick to anything.

Now, is it just me or are these opposites, it is starting more and more to sound like Corobb is a Sith, looking for an easy lynch to start their day off.

Yes, not sticking to anything and not giving up anything are total opposites. So, if one of these is very scummy, the other has to be very townie, right? Wrong. A Jedi should both acknowledge when his suggestion is flawed, but not be erratic and change his mind every few minutes either.

Seeing that there has been much debate on this, I cannot vote for anyone without any shred of proof. I think that Master(?) Corrob has been thinking over this and counterplotting counterplots for counterplots and thus I wish to: FoS: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

Er, what? You accuse him of counterplotting counterplotting counterplotting? I feel like I should FoS you too, just because your statement doesn't make any sence.

-Another long post which only sums things up-

VOTE: Ahsoka Tano (MacK)

You didn't strike me as any help to the town at all today, and now you quote everything about Ahsoka, which has been analyzed before, add nothing new at all, add no opinion of yours at all, and decide that's enough for a vote. By the way, voting right now is scummy. The town has time to think about voting, and FoS people before making final decisions. The scum, on the other hand, will profite from a rashed vote, so they might try to create a fast bandwagon which can't be undone. So, everyone, stop voting! We've got plenty of time left.

FoS: Voolvif Mon (JackJonespaw)

About my further suspicions, I agree with people's accusation of Master Windu. He has been erraticalliy accusing other Jedi, never being too sure about them, and never accusing anyone who hasn't been accused before, or saying anything that hasn't been said before. Therefore, I FoS: Master Windu (Nightshroud).

[MacK]

Well now it seems some interesting things have transpired while I was in my chamber.

Out of everyone I think that the most suspicious person here is Ili Seosty. She placed her vote before we were even an hour into the voting period. At the time she placed her vote I think it can be agreed that I was the number one suspect, and I have to wonder if she was sure that a band wagon was about to form against me. Maybe she was trying to avoid scrutiny by placing her vote first? Frankly I think that her whole real life excuse is weak, as I find it a bit hard to believe that she won’t be on here at all for the rest of the game day. Now of course the same could be said for Foul Moudama, but I think that he has already been useful throughout the day. Either way it would have been much more appropriate to have placed a FoS, as many others have done. Being that Ili Seosty seemingly came out of nowhere to place her vote I’m inclined to:

FoS: Ili Seosty (Sisco)

As a side note I think we should avoid mentioning "real life" as an excuse for any of our actions.

[Scubacarrot]

Yes, not sticking to anything and not giving up anything are total opposites. So, if one of these is very scummy, the other has to be very townie, right? Wrong. A Jedi should both acknowledge when his suggestion is flawed, but not be erratic and change his mind every few minutes either.

What? Why do you act dense? I never said "one has to be very towny". Go read back and come back when you figure out what I actually say, bye bye.

[Peanuts]

What? Why do you act dense? I never said "one has to be very towny". Go read back and come back when you figure out what I actually say, bye bye.

You never expicitely said that one of these things would have to be very townie, but you accused him for accusing people for reasons, which were the complete opposite. So, if you considered his accusations to be scummy, you must think they can't be justified. What I meant was, just because two accusations are the diametrical opposite, doesn't mean they can't be both justified.

[Scubacarrot]

You never expicitely said that one of these things would have to be very townie, but you accused him for accusing people for reasons, which were the complete opposite. So, if you considered his accusations to be scummy, you must think they can't be justified. What I meant was, just because two accusations are the diametrical opposite, doesn't mean they can't be both justified.

Yes, I read that the first time. Since you obviously did not see what I was getting at, I'll try to explain: Okay, here is the deal: Corobb played major part in accusing these two people, for those two reasons, correct? Now, the reasons are the exact opposite, which does indeed not make them mutually exclusive, but here is the thing: As he said it, he started saying things like: <Bad Corobb impression on> A real Jedi would follow up on this points!<Bad Corobb impression off>. In short and easier said: It was more the way he used the reasoning, and it genuininely feels (To me) that he is just scavenging for a quick and easy lynch. That is the impression I got at least, and it almost feels like he dropped Ashoka because the backlash from doing so would be too dangerous for him. If I am not clear, please say so, I see my last post can come off as a little angry, it was not intended.

I also want to point out that he called someone out for summarizing, while on the last page he did exactly did, in a more useless and longer fashion. Also he refuses to respond to me in private when I called him out, I am going to link the conversation here, maybe someone else can make something out of it, although I had hoped he would have given me a good reason not to.

[Flipz]

Seeing that there has been much debate on this, I cannot vote for anyone without any shred of proof. I think that Master(?) Corrob has been thinking over this and counterplotting counterplots for counterplots and thus I wish to: FoS: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

"Master Vos, have you recently been clubbed in the head by a wampa? Your statement is most incomprehensible. I would gladly respond to a reasoned accusation against me, but as it stands I'm not sure what argument is being made, so I can't exactly respond to it, can I? Try repeating yourself more clearly and I'll gladly reply. "

Thank you droid, for explaining, perhaps it would have been a good idea to have this in the thread in the first place.

Alright I can see where people are coming from now. Still, the case is at it's best... filmsy. I agree he has not said anything helpful, but neither have others, in fact, there have been multiple people that have said either nothing, next to nothing or nothing meaningful. That said, I sincerely hope Master Windu will grace us with his presence once more, and explain WHY he has been so unhelpful up to this point, and if he has anything insightful to add, the same is for the others that are quiet, by being quiet, you only help the scum, and generally make it harder to see who to trust and who to lynch.

Now, I have something to say about Corobb's last statement, which I could not help but notice: He claims the reason people went for Ashoka was because she sticked by her (misguided) suggestion after some people said it was a bad idea. And the reason people went for Windu was because he does not stick to anything.

Now, is it just me or are these opposites, it is starting more and more to sound like Corobb is a Sith, looking for an easy lynch to start their day off.

FoS: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

"On the contrary, as Master Unduli has pointed out, "A Jedi should both acknowledge when his suggestion is flawed, but not be erratic and change his mind every few minutes either." If I were looking for an easy lynch, I would have added my vote to the bandwagon on Padawan Tano."

"However, this bandwagon on Tano is doubly dangerous; not only does it put a likely innocent Jedi in danger, but it also tempts other impatient Jedi to join the wagon simply because it's there. We need to come up with another candidate before Padawan Tano's wagon grows too large to stop; unfortunately, I don't believe we have enough evidence yet to definitively choose between the proposed candidates."

Well now it seems some interesting things have transpired while I was in my chamber.

Out of everyone I think that the most suspicious person here is Ili Seosty. She placed her vote before we were even an hour into the voting period. At the time she placed her vote I think it can be agreed that I was the number one suspect, and I have to wonder if she was sure that a band wagon was about to form against me. Maybe she was trying to avoid scrutiny by placing her vote first? Frankly I think that her whole real life excuse is weak, as I find it a bit hard to believe that she won’t be on here at all for the rest of the game day. Now of course the same could be said for Foul Moudama, but I think that he has already been useful throughout the day. Either way it would have been much more appropriate to have placed a FoS, as many others have done. Being that Ili Seosty seemingly came out of nowhere to place her vote I’m inclined to:

FoS: Ili Seosty (Sisco)

As a side note I think we should avoid mentioning "real life" as an excuse for any of our actions.

"Padawan Tano is now showing wisdom; I agree with her reasoning against Seosty. Jedi Seosty, do you have anything to say for yourself?"

[Scubacarrot]

snip

Oh come on, now you are not even trying to respond to me. Before I forget: Vote: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

As I said, I did not want to give the Sith any ideas, so if I'm wrong, this one is all on you, CorobbAlright, here is the conversation, my first message was a respond to when he said he wanted investigators to investigate HIM.

I'm not saying this in thread as not to give any ideas, but thats a VERY selfish move. plus you are painting a glowing target on your head. Not a good idea mate.

Several people have criticized me for being so suspicious and not "proving" my innocence, most likely because I am so active. I'm not trying to say I'm the only target or should be the most likely target for investigation, I'm trying to be open and honest, and say "look, if you don't trust me, investigate me if you have to, and let's get on with it." A Scum would not be willing to endure such scrutiny; even if I were a godfather or a Ninja or something, there would always be some kind of way to detect my guilt, so it wouldn't make sense to put a target on my head.

Indeed, having a target on my head is good for Town, for several reasons that should be obvious, not the least of which is: if the Scum are after me, they aren't after the Cop or the Vigilante, etc.

As you can see, he avoids my points, or genuinly does not understand them

of course people don't trust you!

There can be 3 reasons you want to be investigated:

You are a careless power role that wants to work together.

You for some reason want to take the lead

You are scum, godfather to be exact.

And by the way, your post earlier did not state you would be investigated, only that they should contact you.

I'm leaning for you to option 2, and I suggest you stop trying, because that kind of leading should be earned, and if you act like this in thread, you will probably fail. So your reasoning for the targetting fails, because if you are one of the first two options, of course it is bad for town. If you claim to be none of these options, you are very selfish. make your mind up.

Oh, I just got a response:

The reason that having me as a nexus for Night Actions is a good thing is threefold: first, as I said, our important Power Roles would not be the target of enemy Night Actions. Second, it will make it easier for the Power Roles to find and verify each other (since they would all be comparing notes about the same target). Third, if the Scum kill me, the Watcher (if we have one, I REALLY hope we do) will be able to know that at least one of the people they see targetting me is Scum, and they'll also know several Jedi Power roles.

I don't really want to take the lead (although that is my natural style, whether I try to lead or not), I just want to push the loyal Jedi to take action and get rid of the scum.

Again, totally not going in what I said.

It's outs of my hands now, I cast my vote, and I believe I am right, if anyone questions my reasons, I'll be glad to awnser.

I must add to my reasoning that his behaviour reminds me very much of a figure similair to me, in a setting where fish was eaten raw, and the rising sun was a symbol. That figure was scum.

[Tamamono]

"In any event, Jedi Seosty deserves the scrutiny more than Master Moudama, as Seosty's behavior has been far less helpful and far more erratic. However, both of them are outclassed by Master Windu's strange behavior..."

I agree. Ili's hasty vote is incredibly suspicious, in fact, maybe one of her teammates told her to do it so she'd appear 'decisive' and be able to "step out of the airspeeder" Master Corobb had set out. However, despite her vote, I honestly think the safest choice today would be Master Windu. His behavior before I accused him was enough to warrant a vote, but his 'defense' seals the deal for me.

Ashoka: the no lynch stragey won't help, even though people have said why it won't work she continued to push for it.

Once again, a scum wouldn't push for something they believed in this early. They'd simply say "Oh, I guess you're right" and back down.

Now people suddenly gang up on Master Windu, for suspecting Corobb?

Have you actually read my argument against him? My initial point wasn't all that bad, but you can't honestly read his defense (or anything else he's posted today) and call it anything other than 'scum'.

I must say I too still have my doubts about Corobb, I have yet to see anything that would make me believe otherwise. The only thing that really speaks for him is that he is active, but for some reason I think he would be active anywhere, in anything.

While I agree that he's the sort of person to be active no matter what, he's done nothing that's particularly scummy, and being active is not the same thing as being reckless and putting your neck on the line.

Oh come on, now you are not even trying to respond to me. Before I forget: Vote: Roron Corobb (Flipz)

Nahdar, let me just say right now that what you're doing is not town. I'd proceed with caution if I were you.

Now I will Vote: Mace Windu (Nightshroud99)

I'd like to strongly urge everyone to follow me on this vote. Master Windu's a much better choice than Ahsoka or Master Corobb.

[Flipz]

*snip*

"Well, as I just said, my third point is invalid because I just learned that there is a Serial Killer on the loose. I stand by my reasoning as to why my being a target for several Night Actions is a good thing (or at the very least, not a bad thing)."

"I fail to see how I am 'avoiding your points'. You were questioning why I'd want to put myself forward as a target for our investigative Night Actions. I responded: first, it lets both the investigator and myself know that neither of us is a Sith, allowing us to work together moving forward. There are also secondary benefeits; as I pointed out, a target on me is a target NOT on the Cop or other investigative roles, and having multiple roles centered around me makes it easier for the loyal Jedi Power Roles to find and coordinate each other (they'll all get matching results). I read your points against me and responded to them, explaining my reasoning for my behavior. I don't see how that's deserving of your vote. "

[TheBoyWonder]

"Well, as I just said, my third point is invalid because I just learned that there is a Serial Killer on the loose. I stand by my reasoning as to why my being a target for several Night Actions is a good thing (or at the very least, not a bad thing)."

May I ask how you gained knowledge of a serial killer this early? It is certainly a daunting prospect for the temple.

[Kadabra]

"Click chirp tweet, tweet screech screech clack chirp chirp chirp tweet." (Well, now I feel stupid for voting. I was under the impression that a conviction of either Padawan Tano, Master Windu, or the droid R2-D2 was likely to be reached while I rested, and therefore I cast a reckless and early vote for my number 1 suspect, who has since produced some solid defenses which have been corroborated and augmented by others [see, I told you there were solid defenses that could be produced ], and I now regret my hasty decision. This is a temple of Jedi, not rash commoners, and haste is not our way of life. I fear I may have made a grave mistake due to the no unvote rule and the fact that only a plurality, not a majority, is required for a lynch. My new suspicions are, Seosty for starting the bandwagon that I so rashly joined, Windu for his excessive fencesitting, and Voolif Mon, for his long, semi-useless recap and then hopping onto the bandwagon without offering any solid evidence. As for my tunnel-vision, I was strongly convinced I had found a scum and was attempting to focus in on her in order to drive her to slip up and reveal her scumminess, or else move off my Scumdar. As she has done the latter, I shall attempt to find a new Scum out of those I listed previously.

FoS: Illi Seosty (Sisco)

Fos: Mace Windu (Nightshroud)

Fos: Voolif Mon (JackjonesPaw)

[Flipz]

May I ask how you gained knowledge of a serial killer this early? It is certainly a daunting prospect for the temple.

"Someone has contacted me privately with the identity of the Shrink. The Shrink has yet to awaken, so I still have to confirm that this person was telling the truth, but I see no advantage to either of them lying to me about this, especially considering I had barely thought of either of them this entire time. "