General Magma Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) "doin really really well" is relative, if it was always planned for a 1 wave theme, then maybe its doing well as a 1 wave theme. If that were the case, I don't think they would've designed an entire Orthanc set... Either way, let's hope for the best. I want this line to continue for as long as possible. Edited September 17, 2012 by General Magma
Moexy Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 If that were the case, I don't think they would've designed an entire Orthanc set... In the picture you also see lots of awesome Star Wars sets who aren't released either. But we only have hope until we have a real confirmation that we will have a second LOTR wave (those Gondor soldiers look really good in the game so it would be a shame if they don't produce them )
deskp Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 If that were the case, I don't think they would've designed an entire Orthanc set... The lego designers try out alot of stuff, some gets made and some not.
General Magma Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 In the picture you also see lots of awesome Star Wars sets who aren't released either. The SW theme was confirmed to run for at least another 10 years and was obviously doing very well, and we knew this. As for LOTR we hear mixed things... but I get the point.
Deathleech Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) If that were the case, I don't think they would've designed an entire Orthanc set... Or picked up both the LotR/Hobbit licenses until 2014, or totally neglected to make any RotK themed sets in their one and only wave (mainly talking about Gondor here, Shelob barely counts). Like someone else said they made the Orc Forge instead of a Gondor-themed set? Really? Not to mention we didn't even get some main characters like Faramir, Eowyn, the Witch King, Sauramon, or Sauron. Yet we got Haldir who is in all three movies combined a whole 10 minutes? Do you guys honestly believe they would pay millions for the license and only make one wave of sets based on LotR? That's totally absurd in my mind. There are just so many sets they still could make and so many more characters they could do. I can think of about 20 totally different, originals sets based on LotR alone off the top of my head. I mean I guess it's possible they only plan 1 wave for every new theme to see how sales go, and then if they meet a certain quota they decide to make more or not. But unless sales were terrible for the first LotR wave, I simply cannot see them stopping at only one. There was just WAY too much missing from it. Edited September 17, 2012 by Deathleech
General Magma Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Or picked up both the LotR/Hobbit licenses until 2014, or totally neglected to make any RotK themed sets in their one and only wave (mainly talking about Gondor here, Shelob barely counts). Like someone else said they made the Orc Forge instead of a Gondor-themed set? Really? Not to mention we didn't even get some main characters like Faramir, Eowyn, the Witch King, Saruman, or Sauron. Yet we got Haldir who is in all three movies combined a whole 10 minutes? Do you guys honestly believe they would pay millions for the license and only make one wave of sets based on LotR? That's totally absurd in my mind. There are just so many sets they still could make and so many more characters they could do. I can think of about 20 totally different, originals sets based on LotR alone off the top of my head. I mean I guess it's possible they only plan 1 wave for every new theme to see how sales go, and then if they meet a certain quota they decide to make more or not. But unless sales were terrible for the first LotR wave, I simply cannot see them stopping at only one. There was just WAY too much missing from it. Yup. I cannot see the sales being terrible in any way... They were in the top sellers list of the S@H site for a long time (if they aren't still now), and were said to be doing very well by the CEO himself. Very, very well, that is... at least, that's what he said. They can't give up on Gondor sets, those are very important aspects of the movies, and Saruman, Sauron, Faramir, Éowyn and the Witch-king are all figures that are being asked for a lot. No doubt the sets they'd be in would sell very well. I refuse to believe this is all we'll see of LOTR, and if it is, they must at least have some exclusives for it. But I just can't see it happening like that, Indiana Jones started out with a classic trilogy wave, then went on with the new movie, then went back to classic trilogy, etc... Just look at what we've had so far, the classic trilogy as the first wave - LOTR - and The Hobbit being next. As expected by many, the next LOTR wave would have to show up next summer. Who the heck thought there was enough content to fill up an entire second wave of Hobbit sets from the first film? The set list we've gotten earlier already shows most of the possible stuff for AUJ, if not all of it. And then to mention the rumors about the films ending as early as the Eagle escape part - the only replacement set I can see right now for Mirkwood spiders and Escape in Barrels would be a set with those trolls, but it would require 3 large, molded figures. Would be a pretty tricky one for LEGO, I think. Edited September 17, 2012 by General Magma
Durins Bane Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 a set with those trolls, but it would require 3 large, molded figures. Would be a pretty tricky one for LEGO, I think. God I want those trolls
Durins Bane Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 Also, Durin's Bane, when are we to see updates on your great Helm's Deep endevour? With the release of the sets, you should soon be able to add more figures to your MOC. Check the lotr army thread
Bilbo Baggins Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 Speaking of D2C sets, we haven't heard anything about next years D2C set, have we? If you take a look at the D2C sets we've had in recent years, a LOTR one seems very likely (the last ones being based on Kingdoms, Harry Potter, Pirates and Castle). Besides, what other theme could it be from? Monster Fighters has already got a big exclusive set, Friends seems incredibly unlikely, Ninjago is already rumoured to get a decent send-off with 6 new sets, Superheroes would be next to impossible as TLG is apparently trying to even out the amount of Marvel and DC based sets (thus we'd need two D2C sets to settle the score) and the remaining themes don't appear to be fitting for such a set. If I recall correctly, the D2C sets are usually revealed around October, so it shouldn't take to long now... Forgive my ignorance but what is a D2C set? By the way, not even one of the LOTR sets are in the top 25 sellers, its worth noting there's only 1 star wars set though
Dr.Cogg Posted September 17, 2012 Posted September 17, 2012 D2C is Direct to Consumer ,or Shop at Home Exclusives.
DaleDVM Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 Sorry Durin's Bane for this response. Yes, they are giving up on the line before the first of 3 movies over 2 years are even released... before the movies are allowed to drive sales of the products they took so long to design. All of those new molds and designs never to be used again... The cost of the license... That could be the dumbest thing I have ever heard! I can't believe all of the sheep who listen to this drivel...
Duke of wellington Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Sorry Durin's Bane for this response. Yes, they are giving up on the line before the first of 3 movies over 2 years are even released... before the movies are allowed to drive sales of the products they took so long to design. All of those new molds and designs never to be used again... The cost of the license... That could be the dumbest thing I have ever heard! I can't believe all of the sheep who listen to this drivel... Lego knows that once the movie is out it will generate allot of sales why would TLG end it.Think of all the sets Eowyn ,Witch King, Saruman, Faramir, Mumakil, Gondor, Fell beast. Lego will make Lotr sets at least for 2 more waves, Jun 2013 and 2014. Lego lotr is doing well the sets sell better than SW. Edited September 18, 2012 by Duke of wellington
The_Chosen_1 Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 Lego lotr is doing well the sets sell better than SW. Source?
Durins Bane Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) For the last time i said i heard no more lotr not hobbit... so ugh if i could delete alll my posts i would. Edited September 18, 2012 by Durins Bane
Faefrost Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 That's a fair point, but I think that 1) the lines are inexorably linked, and function as one license in the same way that Star Wars Clone Wars and original trilogy Star Wars does. Same overall property where one aspect of it is new, the other is well established. 2) the staggered release schedules that we've all been talking about (summer = LotR, Winter = Hobbit) just makes too much sense. At least until the summer of 2014 when we'll get the third Hobbit Movie. That leaves us with another summer to finish off LotR with things like Gondor and Orthanc. At least, we hope. I'm not saying all of this to be argumentative or doubt this source. It just simply doesn't make sense. That said, I come from a world of Hasbro Star Wars fandom, so I know exactly what it is for a toy company to do incredibly stupid things that don't make sense. lol Agreed. If you look carefully at everything that TLG has said, then no they are not treating this as an overall license like they did with SW or HP. They treat it as two semi separate trilogies as far as the Marketing is concerned. LotR has different art and graphics and marketing than Hobbit. They are separate categories on Lego.com. The new sets will show up as The Hobbit in the catalogs, etc. depending on how The Hobbit does we may not see them spend a lot of time going back to LotR. I suspect that the Hobbit has a ton more kid friendly and toy friendly possibilities than the full trilogy. Heck the book does, I can't see the movies changing that. The LotR trilogy (or really big novel) was written to be an artificial epic myth. An experiment with classic forms. The Hobbit was written to be a smaller tighter rousing good adventure yarn. A classic of a different sort. And as a final thought on LotR. Remember that interview was earlier in the year, as LotR was releasing. My suspicion, just from watching store shelves a bit, is LotR did very very well on initial release, but then waned a bit. It is deeply loved by the AFOLs and those who love the subject matter. But you aren't seeing as big a growth over time in interest from the younger customers. They walk down the aisle and want Ninjago, or MOnster Fighters, maybe even Batman. I think LotR started strong, but both MF ans Friends blew the doors off of it as time went on. We have long noted that the licensed LotR suffers from a similar problem as PotC and PoP (although not quite that bad). It has a greatly reduced charm factor compared to what came before it. Helm's Deep is a Spectacular set. But it is also very dull earth tones with minifigs that while cool, just lack the charm of many of the Fantasy Era castle stuff. Set a child age 8 to 11 down in a Lego store and put Helms Deep and the Kingdoms Joust set in front of him. Which will he choose every time? Why?
Duke of wellington Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) I think it will be Lotr then hobbit then lotr then hobbit then hobbit. The third film is coming out in June 2014. Then the end. Edited September 18, 2012 by Duke of wellington
General Magma Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 If you look carefully at everything that TLG has said, then no they are not treating this as an overall license like they did with SW or HP. They treat it as two semi separate trilogies as far as the Marketing is concerned. LotR has different art and graphics and marketing than Hobbit. They are separate categories on Lego.com. The new sets will show up as The Hobbit in the catalogs, etc. depending on how The Hobbit does we may not see them spend a lot of time going back to LotR. I suspect that the Hobbit has a ton more kid friendly and toy friendly possibilities than the full trilogy. Heck the book does, I can't see the movies changing that. The LotR trilogy (or really big novel) was written to be an artificial epic myth. An experiment with classic forms. The Hobbit was written to be a smaller tighter rousing good adventure yarn. A classic of a different sort. Because, although there are large similarities, the differences are too big to blend them as one thing. The point is, 'Star Wars' remains 'Star Wars' - The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings both take place in Middle-Earth, with the same creatures, several characters that are similar or really just the same and exactly the same world (with exactly the same locations, whether they appear in either one of the trilogies or both) - the problem is, however, that the names are completely different. They can't market them under one name.
SirBlake Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 Interesting thoughts on the separate identities between the two. I would argue that those lines are very blurred on a consumer level, but the point is well received.
Deathleech Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 And as a final thought on LotR. Remember that interview was earlier in the year, as LotR was releasing. My suspicion, just from watching store shelves a bit, is LotR did very very well on initial release, but then waned a bit. It is deeply loved by the AFOLs and those who love the subject matter. But you aren't seeing as big a growth over time in interest from the younger customers. They walk down the aisle and want Ninjago, or MOnster Fighters, maybe even Batman. I think LotR started strong, but both MF ans Friends blew the doors off of it as time went on. When was the interview done, because the publish date was Aug 31, 2012... barely over 2 weeks ago. Even if it was published a month after the interview was done, which would of been the first of August, that still puts us at almost 2.5 months that the Lego LotR sets were on shelves (here in the U.S. at least).
The_Chosen_1 Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 All I know is that this talk has me quite worried for the theme. It's hard to believe that we went from speculation of the line lasting years (probably no a valid point to begin with) to LotR being discontinued sooner than expected. I really hope that's not the case.
TheLegoDr Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 I agree that it would be foolish to end this LOTR end of the license, but maybe sales have stagnated a little. Looking on Amazon Best Sellers at #35 is Mines of Moria and the next is #51 with Gandalf Arrives. So only two sets in the top 51, whereas the remainder is almost exclusively Friends and Ninjago. So it is possible that isn't an indicator of overall sales since I don't know store numbers or S@H numbers, but that doesn't look too promising. The rest are #61 Shelob, #83 Uruk-Hai Army (which is surprising to me), and then #93 Helm's Deep rounding out the top 100 LEGO sets. I highly doubt LOTR would be an "evergreen" Licensed theme like Star Wars, but I doubt they would only get one wave out of LOTR with all of the new molds created and figures they could release. I realize PoP and POTC had similar issues, but I would imagine POTC will have a new resurgence whenever the next film comes out. Plus they used some of the pieces in the Town Hall, so maybe other themes could benefit from LOTR molds too. I would expect it to continue for a while. But if not, then maybe after Christmas clearance deals can be had on Uruk-Hai army! That's how I accumulated lots of the Escape from Dragon's Prison set at half-off last year.
Elander Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 I just wondering why LEGO does not provide some small battle pack sets? If I remember referring to the "old classic" castle line from 1984 to 1990, there were listet many small sets which I would buy multiple times. Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit are Army Building Themes! Those themes does need many army building sets like the old classic castle battle sets. Why LEGO does not provide more sets, which we would buy multiple times? For example some creator sets including some usefull soldiers (which we would need multiple times). Another point is, why are some characters only included in books, video games, ect. ?? Sorry, but if I see things like that, then I don't want to LEGO. And where are the big exclusive sets? Kindly note, that this theme is closer to "an adult theme". The adults were really happy if they would see a big Orthanc Tower or a beauty Rivendell set. And regarding to the Elves. Where are they? Where are the "nice to have" elf armies? And regarding to the Hobbit civilians. Where - are - they?? What is about Hobbiton? Yoda would say: "Much to do, you still have"
ShaydDeGrai Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 I could see both The Hobbit and the LotR continuing as parallel successful lines, but predominantly targeted at two different base audiences. Although both are set in Middle Earth, one was clearly written to tantalize a child's imagination while the other was written as the myths from a culture that never was. We'll have to wait to see how the movie versions blur the lines between the kids' story and the war epic. The books that make up the LotR, in my editions, total nearly 1800 pages, while the Hobbit is only 300 so I suspect Peter Jackson will be borrowing from other sources a bit if he expects to get 3 films out of The Hobbit. Will that make make The Hobbit a more mature tale? Will it hurt the Hobbit's appeal to young kids? I guess we'll find out in a few months on that front. In the mean time... From a literary standpoint, The Hobbit is clearly the fun adventure romp through Middle Earth. It was written to appeal to children and has lots of little narrative threads that would translate well to mini-figure-centric play sets. This is essentially the types of kits TLG has been trying to market for the LotR, and for what those sets are, they're okay. As an adult LotR fan, however, I've been generally disappointed with things to date. I'm fine with what they've released, but it's what they haven't release that irks me. The LotR was a more informed, grittier epic fantasy, a cross between Tolkien's own reflections on being in the trenches (literally) of WWI, The Odyessy, The Aeneid, The Kalevara and healthy doses of forethought and imagination. It was aimed at an older audience and is rightly characterized as 'mythic'. Although I think the LEGO sets to date have done okay, the themes, the color palette and the action of LotR make it a tough sell for a toy company aiming at six year olds and priding itself on responsible, educational play. It's just not a kids story (I actually was less than 6 the first time I read it, but that doesn't count, I've always been an outlier) and the films certainly reflect this. I've seen chatter on various LotR fan sites that suggests I'm not the only adult who wishes that TLG would come up with LotR kits with more 'adult appeal', something akin to the SW Ultimate Collectors Series with cool display models that AREN'T just back drops for mini-figures. If TLG already has the license, why not milk it for all it's worth and release kits that showcase the cool places and architecture of Middle Earth like desktop models of Orthanc, The Hornberg, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Barad Dur, etc. [shameless self promotion, I've been pitching this idea over at Cuusoo for a while now) Of course they could continue with the mini-figure play set offerings but the focus of the 6-12 year old market would be biased toward The Hobbit, and the UCS/Architecture line would have more of a LotR slant. I know several people who do NOT self identify as AFOLs but they are Star Wars fans and consider the UCS LEGO SW kits absolute must-haves. It's the only LEGO they buy and only one of them actually cares about the mini-figures at all. They don't bother with battle packs or playsets but they'll spend hundreds on cool looking space ship models that they build once and then let sit around gathering dust for years. I think a similar market exists for The LotR but the offerings to date just don't tap into it and, if TLG wants to keep both The Hobbit and LotR franchises growing, it's something TLG should seriously consider moving forward.
Haltiamieli Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 I've seen chatter on various LotR fan sites that suggests I'm not the only adult who wishes that TLG would come up with LotR kits with more 'adult appeal', something akin to the SW Ultimate Collectors Series with cool display models that AREN'T just back drops for mini-figures. If TLG already has the license, why not milk it for all it's worth and release kits that showcase the cool places and architecture of Middle Earth like desktop models of Orthanc, The Hornberg, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Barad Dur, etc. [shameless self promotion, I've been pitching this idea over at Cuusoo for a while now) Of course they could continue with the mini-figure play set offerings but the focus of the 6-12 year old market would be biased toward The Hobbit, and the UCS/Architecture line would have more of a LotR slant. While I don't personally have that much interest towards things like that, I do agree that it would seem very wise to offer collectors and other adult admirers something like that. I hope they will, before this all is over. And I think miniaturised UCS/Architecture style would be the only way they could do any kind of satisfactory Minas Tirith (as a whole) set. Any minifigure-sized play set would either cost 5.000 € minimum or be an awkward failure. In just a few hours we will have the new trailer kicking around. I really hope TLC will have some exciting news (new pictures of the Hobbit sets, that is) prepared for this ongoing "Tolkien Week".
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