LOTR & The Hobbit 2012

[fred67]

If they did it, I wouldn't want creator sets, I'd want modular sets. When they added "Hogwarts" to "Hogwarts Castle," that was a great idea - you had an expensive set with a relatively inexpensive set as an addition; they go together but there's no problem using them separately. As modular sets they are sufficiently detailed whereas creator sets would likely need to be much less so.

I recall this even being discussed for the castle theme in general, but modular wall sections and so forth would be really cool - you can make Helms Deep as big as you like, with inner and outer walls; add a couple of modular sets that go with it (but work fine as stand alone), like the Hornburg or a Tower on the Deeping Wall, and now you're talking about a variety of sets at a variety of prices that can be used separately or combined.

I would suppose that, as far as a "creator" version goes, something where a modular wall has either two half walls or one tall wall.

Rivendell would be made up of a number of smaller sets, Lothlorien would be made up of a number of smaller sets... Moria, Hobbiton, Edoras, Minas Tirith (and to a lesser extent, Osgiliath). This is why I think the sets would be a great license for TLG - there's so many great ideas and sets (the list I just gave isn't even exhaustive, as there's a lot of one-offs, too, like Weather Top, and even where Bilbo encountered the trolls). I also don't think the license affects the price all that much... I actually think most of the other LEGO prices are inflated a bit to make it seem like the licensed sets aren't that much more expensive, piece for piece (obviously there are exceptions). FBTB.net had a price comparison a while back which, as I recall, showed SW sets were not any more expensive on a piece-by-piece basis (although I can't find it now). That would mean many of the sets would work fine for traditional castle fans (the only difference being "fleshies," which, as I've said, I could live without in a LOTR theme).

BIG EDIT: I want to add that I've been stating support for a second fantasy wave... I think I'd be happy enough with it, but like most AFOLs I'm very impatient and want to see the sets I want to see. I think the orcs and trolls (hey, let's call them what they are) were good enough - the dwarves were good enough, the humans were good enough, even the "winged steeds" were good enough... add elves and some more white haired wizards in black towers with cloth robes instead of a plastic hat, and you're really onto something. I wish we could go buy, for reasonable prices (like most of the bulk brick "starter" buckets TLG sells), gray pieces. I can live with with LBG... but building a Helms Deep in LBG would cost enough using gray buckets... the way you have to buy parts now it would cost an absolute fortune. Maybe they should just do "castle buckets."

Edited September 16, 2011 by fred67

[Niku]

If they did it, I wouldn't want creator sets, I'd want modular sets. When they added "Hogwarts" to "Hogwarts Castle," that was a great idea - you had an expensive set with a relatively inexpensive set as an addition; they go together but there's no problem using them separately. As modular sets they are sufficiently detailed whereas creator sets would likely need to be much less so.

I recall this even being discussed for the castle theme in general, but modular wall sections and so forth would be really cool - you can make Helms Deep as big as you like, with inner and outer walls; add a couple of modular sets that go with it (but work fine as stand alone), like the Hornburg or a Tower on the Deeping Wall, and now you're talking about a variety of sets at a variety of prices that can be used separately or combined.

I would suppose that, as far as a "creator" version goes, something where a modular wall has either two half walls or one tall wall.

Rivendell would be made up of a number of smaller sets, Lothlorien would be made up of a number of smaller sets... Moria, Hobbiton, Edoras, Minas Tirith (and to a lesser extent, Osgiliath). This is why I think the sets would be a great license for TLG - there's so many great ideas and sets (the list I just gave isn't even exhaustive, as there's a lot of one-offs, too, like Weather Top, and even where Bilbo encountered the trolls). I also don't think the license affects the price all that much... I actually think most of the other LEGO prices are inflated a bit to make it seem like the licensed sets aren't that much more expensive, piece for piece (obviously there are exceptions). FBTB.net had a price comparison a while back which, as I recall, showed SW sets were not any more expensive on a piece-by-piece basis (although I can't find it now). That would mean many of the sets would work fine for traditional castle fans (the only difference being "fleshies," which, as I've said, I could live without in a LOTR theme).

BIG EDIT: I want to add that I've been stating support for a second fantasy wave... I think I'd be happy enough with it, but like most AFOLs I'm very impatient and want to see the sets I want to see. I think the orcs and trolls (hey, let's call them what they are) were good enough - the dwarves were good enough, the humans were good enough, even the "winged steeds" were good enough... add elves and some more white haired wizards in black towers with cloth robes instead of a plastic hat, and you're really onto something. I wish we could go buy, for reasonable prices (like most of the bulk brick "starter" buckets TLG sells), gray pieces. I can live with with LBG... but building a Helms Deep in LBG would cost enough using gray buckets... the way you have to buy parts now it would cost an absolute fortune. Maybe they should just do "castle buckets."

Totally suscribe.

[Ogre]

Pirates of the Caribbean:

“Pirates of the Caribbean” is a wonderful license with a lot of possibilities. For Tortuga, Port Royal or other places could LEGO also to work by CREATOR (that’s also just houses, rocks and caves).

But what I don’t like is that TLC ever and ever again to broke the most important rule. Why they put ever the same minifigures in different LEGO-boxes? Where is here the collector effect? I don’t see the commercial effect? Why should I to buy another LEGO-box along with Jack Sparrow and the same guys if I have exact these versions 3x times? Everybody knows that this bad business is.

Exactly why I won't buy the POTC 'battle pack'. It's not a BATTLE PACK, it's a 'collectable minifigure pack' for folks who don't want to buy the sets, IMO.

[Ogre]

Maybe they should just do "castle buckets."

Castle buckets, spaceship buckets (various greys, etc.) and landscape buckets (browns, tans and greens)

[Si-MOCs]

Castle buckets, spaceship buckets (various greys, etc.) and landscape buckets (browns, tans and greens)

Don't they have those already? I call them Bricklink packages

[fred67]

Don't they have those already? I call them Bricklink packages

Yeah... when you can get the equivalent of a LEGO bucket in only gray for the same price, including S&H, let us know.

[Elander]

Damn, TLC why do you produce “flash”-heads for the license-themes? We would not have now the “yellow-flash problem” and everybody would be a little gladder.

I believe the most people here prefer Fantasy II before LOTR/HOBBIT only about these “flesh”-minifigures! And that can’t be, or!??

Damn, LOTR/HOBBIT has sooo amazing minifigure-possibilities. So many peoples, so many cultures, and every folk would to get his one’s own cool style!!

Human-peoples:

Gondor, Rohan, Esgaroth (Hobbit-theme)

Dark-peoples: Easterlings, Haradrim, Corsairs of Umbar

And my favorite army: The in dark shining “Army of the Dead”

Elves: -Rivendell (civilian-outfit), Lothlorien- , Mirkwood-elves inclusive banners

Orcs: -Moria goblins (short legs), Uruk-hais, Misky-mountain goblins (large legs) inclusive “the great goblin”, Mordor orcs

Dwarves: -13x! collectable dwarf-minifigures (from Bilbo’s fellowship) for the Hobbit-theme! And those will to add with warriors of Durins-folk by the “Battle of the Five Armies”

And the most important minifigures! -The Hobbits! –I do not want see Fantasy II hobbits. I do want the original!

That is insane! The most people prefer a non Tolkien-theme because those do not want “flash” minifigures! “Flash”-minifigures are incompatible with Kingdoms “yellow”-minifigures.

NNnooOOOoo!!

Edited September 19, 2011 by Elander

[Aanchir]

To be fair, there are many other reasons that some people prefer non-licensed themes to licensed ones. Licensed themes are generally more expensive than non-licensed ones. Storylines tend to be simpler, allowing for more imagination both for TLG's designers and for MOCists. Some people also prefer the "sovereignty" of some of TLG's evergreen themes, and do not want to see non-licensed castle themes end even if it allows for licensed ones to take their place (as happened with LEGO Space and, some claim, with the most recent iteration of LEGO Pirates).

Personally, I stopped collecting LEGO Star Wars a year or so after the switch to fleshies, and there have been many sets recently that have made me want to go back-- sets like this year's podracer sets demonstrate amazingly superior designs to their earlier equivalents. The things that are stopping me aren't the fleshies, since I rarely use licensed figure heads in non-licensed theme building anyway (and for the inverse there are plenty of licensed figure heads that are generic enough to be used across multiple themes). The things that are stopping me are the price and the fact that it is tied to a license.

Notably, I have enjoyed a couple licensed themes in the meantime, namely LEGO Batman and the reboot of LEGO Harry Potter. Something these two themes share that is absent from LEGO Star Wars or (presumably) what people want in a LotR theme is a lot of creative liberty for the designers. LEGO Batman didn't have to worry about matching a particular Batmobile with any sort of precision-- it was more important for the sets to evoke the spirit of the locations and vehicles they represented. And LEGO Harry Potter has always focused less on exactly replicating any particular rendition of Hogwarts and more on including familiar scenes. The fact that they are licenses, not the fact that they include fleshies, is probably to blame for the fact that I didn't collect many sets from either theme

I think fleshies are a small price to pay to avoid situations like Lando having brown skin and everyone else having yellow skin in the Cloud City set. That was just embarrassing and did much to undermine TLG's insistence from the beginning that the yellow minifigure is racially neutral. But while I haven't bought any Kingdoms sets, I'd be even less likely to buy LotR or The Hobbit sets. I haven't been interested in Tolkien novels or movies in years, and I'm having more fun with TLG's own intellectual properties like Hero Factory or Ninjago than I tend to have with licensed themes. I would marvel at new set images along with everyone else if LotR sets were revealed. But I doubt I'd buy the sets, and most of my attention would still go towards TLG's own imaginative properties.

[Ogre]

Yeah... when you can get the equivalent of a LEGO bucket in only gray for the same price, including S&H, let us know.

No kidding!

[fred67]

... But while I haven't bought any Kingdoms sets, I'd be even less likely to buy LotR or The Hobbit sets. I haven't been interested in Tolkien novels or movies in years, and I'm having more fun with TLG's own intellectual properties like Hero Factory or Ninjago than I tend to have with licensed themes. I would marvel at new set images along with everyone else if LotR sets were revealed. But I doubt I'd buy the sets, and most of my attention would still go towards TLG's own imaginative properties.

As much as I respect your opinions (and all the facts you've provided, obviously being very knowledgeable about LEGO), the fact is that you obviously wouldn't be the target audience anyway.

I understand your opinion, but it's more a general rant against licenses. That's fine - after all this long discussion, I've been swayed to the opinion that I'd rather have fantasy 2 than LOTR (that is, given enough LOTR-like sets, even if they aren't quite LOTR - much like the original fantasy minus the stupid skeletons). But I think LOTR would probably win more buyers as a new castle theme than it would lose.

[Elander]

Simulate LEGO’s LOTR/Hobbit “Masterplan”:

Hi folks,

I want to start an interesting sub-theme into this topic here (I hope that is no problem, because I do not want to start a complete new topic). “What do you think which and how many and how expensive sets would TLC develop for the Hobbit/LOTR theme? “ That subtheme shall be no stupid “wish list”. No, I want to talk with you about a possible “real” set-list. -Possible real sizes, real prices and about a real set-collocation for important areas. (You do know, for me “as huge Tolkien-fan” is it extra difficult job .)

I think in order to calculate “a realistic list” is it important to prepare a comparison based of other themes. I do to analyze the both themes “Harry Potter” and “Pirates of the Caribbean”. At first is to list all sets incl. all prices (for me (Germany) in Euro/ for many of you in US Dollar).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harry Potter: Autumn 2010 – Summer 2011: (total 10 sets = 635 Euro/588 USD)

(1 USD = 1,08 Euro / 1 Euro = 0,92 USD)

Autumn 2010: (6 sets = 370 Euro/341 USD)

1.) Hogwarts Castle: 130 Euro/130 USD

2.) The Burrow: 70 Euro/60 USD

3.) Quidditch Match: 26 Euro/20 USD

4.) Hagrids Hut: 50 Euro/40 USD

5.) Hogwarts Express: 80 Euro/80 USD

6.) Freeing Dobby: 14 Euro/ 11 USD

Winter 2011 [Exclusive-set: Daigon Alley: 150 Euro/150 USD]

Summer 2011: (3 sets = 115 Euro/97 USD)

1.) The Forbidden Forest: 15 Euro/12 USD

2.) Hogwarts: 60 Euro/50 USD

3.) The Knight Bus: 40 Euro/35 USD

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pirates of the Caribbean Summer/Autumn 2011 (total 9 Sets = 539 Euro/472 USD)

(1 USD = 1,14 Euro / 1 Euro = 0,87 USD)

Summer 2011 (8 sets = 439 Euro/372 USD)

1.) Isla de la Muerta (27 Euro/20 USD)

2.) The Mill (50 Euro/40 USD)

3.) Fountain of Youth (27 Euro/20 USD)

4.) Whitecap Bay (90 Euro/80 USD)

5.) Queens Anne’s Revenge (130 Euro/120 USD)

6.) Captain’s Cabin (15 Euro/12 USD)

7.) The London Escape (60 Euro/50 USD)

8.) The Cannibal Escape (40 Euro/30 USD)

Autumn 2011 [Exclusive-set: The Black Pearl] (100 Euro/100 USD)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, this comparison share us that TLC pro year to budget for a license-theme ca. 10-12 sets to 600 Euro/550 USD…650 Euro/600 USD. The next step is to figure out:

-How could look the “master plan” for LOTR/Hobbit:

Late summer 2012 “LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring”

Winter 2012/2013 “Hobbit: An unexpended journey”

Late summer 2013 “LOTR: The Two Towers”

Winter 2013/2014 “Hobbit: There and back again”

Late summer 2014 “LOTR: The Return of the King”

-> In total 5x waves for ca. 2,5 years!

2,5 years x 10…12 sets = ca. 25…30 sets = 1500 Euro/1375 USD…1800 Euro/1500 USD.

Ok, now I to issue these 25…30 sets into 5x waves:

EXAMPLE:

Total = (1800 Euro…1500 USD)/28 sets = average (+/-)60 Euro or 50 USD pro set

25…30 sets/ 5 waves = 5…6 sets pro wave

5…6 sets pro wave x 60 Euro or 50 USD pro set = (300…360) Euro or (250…300) USD pro wave

Simulate:

Late summer 2012 “LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring” (6 sets/ ca. 360 Euro or 300 USD)

Winter 2012/2013 “Hobbit: An unexpended journey” (5 sets/ ca. 300 Euro or 250 USD)

Late summer 2013 “LOTR: The Two Towers” (6 sets/ca. 360 Euro or 300 USD)

Winter 2013/2014 “Hobbit: There and back again” (5 sets/ ca. 300 Euro or 250 USD)

Late summer 2014 “LOTR: The Return of the King” (6 sets/ca. 360 Euro or 300 USD)

So, I believe that list could be real. These data are calculated by the license-themes “Harry Potter” and “Pirates of the Caribbean”. After the Hobbit movies ends (unfortunately ) the merchandising industry and TLC could seeks other license (or non license) -themes.

Ok, if now TLC really to develop LOTR/Hobbit (2012-2014); how could look these five waves including budget? Let’s that case simulate. Which areas are your absolute favorite areas and which places could be sorted out? What is possible and what is too extravagant? Which locations are unimportant because the same minifigures are already in other places (LEGO-boxes)?

IMPORTANT: Every LEGO-set needs one’s own peculiar charm. Every LEGO-set wants to be bought. You can every character put into different sets –but these characters must have different marks (hurt, bewitched, other clothes, angry, happy… what you want).

And also important: Look to it –your budget should keep un-exceeded (max. budget pro wave = 360 Euro/300 USD; that rule is for me extra rigorous ).

I believe that task could make fun.

Ideas are welcome!

[Aanchir]

As much as I respect your opinions (and all the facts you've provided, obviously being very knowledgeable about LEGO), the fact is that you obviously wouldn't be the target audience anyway.

I understand your opinion, but it's more a general rant against licenses. That's fine - after all this long discussion, I've been swayed to the opinion that I'd rather have fantasy 2 than LOTR (that is, given enough LOTR-like sets, even if they aren't quite LOTR - much like the original fantasy minus the stupid skeletons). But I think LOTR would probably win more buyers as a new castle theme than it would lose.

I didn't mean for my post to sound like a rant against licenses. As mentioned, I really enjoyed LEGO Batman and LEGO Harry Potter. I might just as easily enjoy the upcoming Super Heroes theme. But I was mainly trying to demonstrate that there are reasons some people might be opposed to a LotR theme other than the use of fleshies.

I also agree a LotR theme could potentially be very successful-- depending on how well it appeals to kids from a merchandising standpoint. Personally, I have enough LotR merch at my house from when those movies were current to guess that teens and preteens, in the very least, will be drawn in easily. And since The Hobbit was a more lighthearted adventure story, it should be able to appeal to younger audiences-- even if it turns out being darker or edgier than the book, it still has a more linear progression with an emphasis on Bilbo's adventures, potentially making it easier for younger audiences to understand.

[Mr. Elijah Timms]

Forget all of the arguments and proposals for sets, forget all the convincing...

I just don't think LOTR is a good business decision for Lego in 2012.

In terms of marketing, it's gonna be the year of the Superheroes, make no mistake, and beyond both the DC license and the monstrous Avengers push in the summer, there's still Star Wars & Ninjago (both of which will have a TV show to promote itself), Dino2012, and all of the core Lego themes to contend with.

TLG would require a significant extension of their marketing budget to push a Hobbit theme to the extent of these others, and even then we're looking at a clear case of Lego competing with themselves. By Christmas of 2012 Lego will still be trying to convince mothers and casual buyers to spend money on the sets released in the summer-- that's a horrible time to launch a corresponding Hobbit theme. Promoting LOTR would only discourage buyers from grabbing sets already in high rotation.

It doesn't take a genius to realize you don't sell new products when it leaves your existing products stranded on the shelves. Lego will sell whatever's on the shelves at Christmas, so why would they spend all this extra money to push a new line?

I'm not arguing with any of you-- loved the books, and certainly loved the Hobbit more than LOTR-- but now's just not the right time, in terms of good business.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Mr. Elijah Timms

[sharky]

Can anyone translate this page? It has something about LOTR, but I don't know if it's just speculation or real. Sorry if this has been posted already, but it was dated Aug. 10th and I haven't heard much about it.

http://www.miniland.nl/Nieuws/index.htm

Since it's not in English I had trouble naviagting the site. I first went to the link "LEGO Super Heroes van 2012 (16-09-2011)" then I scrolled to the bottom where there were other links to something about LOTR, The Hobbit, and even Godzilla.

For some reason I can only link to the main page so I cut and pasted this info.

Edit: it could be speculation based on some previous blogs. I'll take it down until I know different. You can navigate to the page and see for yourself.

Edited September 20, 2011 by sharky

[fenrir]

Can anyone translate this page? It has something about LOTR, but I don't know if it's just speculation or real. Sorry if this has been posted already, but it was dated Aug. 10th and I haven't heard much about it.

http://www.miniland.nl/Nieuws/index.htm

Since it's not in English I had trouble naviagting the site. I first went to the link "LEGO Super Heroes van 2012 (16-09-2011)" then I scrolled to the bottom where there were other links to something about LOTR, The Hobbit, and even Godzilla.

For some reason I can only link to the main page so I cut and pasted this info.

Edit: it could be speculation based on some previous blogs. I'll take it down until I know different. You can navigate to the page and see for yourself.

It's Dutch, it says:

Lego The Lord of the Rings sets 2012

Billund, (Denmark) - News about Lord of the Rings Lego 2012. We found a blog on the internet that 'predicts' new sets in 2012. We don't know how reliable this source is. But here are the sets that wil come according to this website:

LEGO The Lord of the Rings sets van 2012

Billund (Denemarken) - LEGO The Lord of the Rings nieuws voor 2012! We hebben op internet een blog gevonden die allerlei nieuwe sets van 2012 voorspelt. We weten niet hoe betrouwbaar deze bron is, maar hier toch de sets die er volgens die website uitkomen:

Fenrir

[sharky]

It's Dutch, it says:

Lego The Lord of the Rings sets 2012

Billund, (Denmark) - News about Lord of the Rings Lego 2012. We found a blog on the internet that 'predicts' new sets in 2012. We don't know how reliable this source is. But here are the sets that wil come according to this website:

LEGO The Lord of the Rings sets van 2012

Billund (Denemarken) - LEGO The Lord of the Rings nieuws voor 2012! We hebben op internet een blog gevonden die allerlei nieuwe sets van 2012 voorspelt. We weten niet hoe betrouwbaar deze bron is, maar hier toch de sets die er volgens die website uitkomen:

Fenrir

Thanks. Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up. I think the original blog was from much earlier this year. I won't hold my breath until I can see some legitimate pics.

What threw me off was that they had pics of the Friends theme and even some 2012 Star Wars sets so I thought they had some inside knowledge.

[Elander]

Forget all of the arguments and proposals for sets, forget all the convincing...

I'm not arguing with any of you-- loved the books, and certainly loved the Hobbit more than LOTR-- but now's just not the right time, in terms of good business.

And when is the right time? –If Tolkiens “The Children of Hurin” to be made into a film? You’ll be waiting till the cows come home.

Nope. I think now is the right time. Next year will some license-themes to expire and other license-themes to be born. That is every year the same procedure. -And why not for a Tolkien-license? At this time (likely 2012-2014) produces LEGO some excellent molded bricks and accessories. And after that time transformed LEGO all these developed parts into a next (non-licensed fantasy-theme). Why should LEGO just for a normal fantasy-theme to produce so expensive molded bricks?

And I promise you. No, I do know it. If you to see the first LOTR/Hobbit-sets. –You will to love that theme! –And why? That will you see now.

-I’ve tried to develop a realistic first wave for that theme. You to see, I’ve some areas (Bree, Amon Hen, …) and scenes (Bilbo’s birthday party with firework dragon, Nazugul attack at the Bucklebury Ferry, …) sorted out. Other areas likewise “The Shire”, “Isengard” and “Rivendell” will put into other waves for other movies. –So I to get enough place for other sets (scenes) for the first wave. Also I’ve canceled my idea about a “CREATOR series” (see last pages in this topic). At first I thought so you would like that idea –but you have disabused me.

My ideas for a possible “real” LOTR list:

Late summer 2012 “LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring” (8x sets/375 Euro…310 USD)

1) Saurons destiny (4 minifigures), (25 Euro)

Accessories: LEGO brickbuilt Sauron (little exploding function) /or molded Sauron, small rock

Minifigures: Elendil, Isildur, Elrond (warrior-outfit), Gil-galad (Noldor-king)

2) Last Alliance Battle-Pack, (15 Euro)

Minifigures: Gondor-soldier, Noldor-elf, 2x “variable” orcs

“Variable” means: 2(orc-torsos) x 2(heads) x 2(different faces pro head) x 2 helmets = 16 possible variations

That Battle-Pack gives us following effect:

-The Gondor-soldier you can to use for the following great battle “Siege of Gondor (Osgiliath/Minas Tirith)”

-The Noldor-elf you can to use for the battle of Helm’s Deep

-The two “variable” orcs you can to use for all other battles

3) Weather-top (3 minifigures), (15 Euro)

Accessories: rocks and ruin

Minifigures: Frodo as complete (invisible) transparent-figure, 2x nazguls (in dark shining-figures)

4) Ford of Bruinen (4 minifigures), (35 Euro)

Accessories: water (blue and white transparent bricks) 2x blue transparent water horses, rocks

Minifigures: Arwen (green rider outfit) + horse, Frodo (hurt), 2x nazguls (black rider outfit) + black horses

5) Moria-gate with Watcher (4 minifigures), (50 Euro)

Accessories: Moria-gate (in dark shining printed bricks or stickers) with collapse function, LEGO brickbuilt Watcher

Minifigures: Frodo (scared face/ angry face, classic outfit) with in dark shining stich (Frodo’s sword), Aragorn (classic outfit), Boromir (classic outfit), Sam (classic outfit)

6) Balin’s Tomb (7 minifigures), (70 Euro)

Accessories: LEGO brickbuilt or molded cave-troll with broad shoulder for Legolas shoot-out, Balin’s tomb

Minifigures: Gimli, Legolas, Merry, Pipin (all classic outfit), 2x Moria-goblins (short legs), dwarf skeleton

(7) The Bridge of Khazad-doom (45 Euro)

Accessories: LEGO brickbuilt/or molded Balrog with brick-light; his body is for fire a bit red/orange transparent, and his mouth and eyes to glow yellow (I hope that is not too extravagant). -Bridge with collapse-function.

Minifigures: Gandalf with molded LED-gleam wand

(8) Caras-galadhorn (7 minifigures), (120 Euro)

Accessories: big tree house with steps (inside the house and at the white/green roof over the steps are some in dark blue shining bricks), Galadriel’s mirror with changing water surface function (blue water/Sauron’s red eye)

Minifigures: Galadriel (shining figure), Galadriel, Celeborn, Haldir (classic outfit), Frodo (classic face, classic outfit), 2x Lothlorien-guards

I’ve to make sure that not the “same” minifigure contained in different sets in “one” wave. –In that wave I did put 4x “different” Frodo minifigures. (That positive for that rule is that we keep for all minifigures the collector-effect!)

Frodo’s variations:

-Weather-top: Frodo as complete (invisible) transparent-figure

-Ford of Bruinen: Frodo (hurt)

-Moria-gate with Watcher: Frodo (scared face/ angry face, classic outfit) with in dark shining stich (Frodo’s sword)

- Caras-galadhorn: Frodo (classic face, classic outfit)

So, now I’m excited about your comments. I do know that these license-sets are for the “price-performance ratio” as compared with a non-license theme like “Fantasie II” very expensive. –But if LEGO now to invest for that license and to molded new elements for these places –than kill LEGO two birds with one stone. Today a fantastic Tolkien-license –and tomorrow a also fantastic Fantasy II theme.

[Aanchir]

And when is the right time? –If Tolkiens “The Children of Hurin” to be made into a film? You’ll be waiting till the cows come home.

Nope. I think now is the right time. Next year will some license-themes to expire and other license-themes to be born. That is every year the same procedure. -And why not for a Tolkien-license? At this time (likely 2012-2014) produces LEGO some excellent molded bricks and accessories. And after that time transformed LEGO all these developed parts into a next (non-licensed fantasy-theme). Why should LEGO just for a normal fantasy-theme to produce so expensive molded bricks?

And I promise you. No, I do know it. If you to see the first LOTR/Hobbit-sets. –You will to love that theme! –And why? That will you see now.

-I’ve tried to develop a realistic first wave for that theme. You to see, I’ve some areas (Bree, Amon Hen, …) and scenes (Bilbo’s birthday party with firework dragon, Nazugul attack at the Bucklebury Ferry, …) sorted out. Other areas likewise “The Shire”, “Isengard” and “Rivendell” will put into other waves for other movies. –So I to get enough place for other sets (scenes) for the first wave. Also I’ve canceled my idea about a “CREATOR series” (see last pages in this topic). At first I thought so you would like that idea –but you have disabused me.

My ideas for a possible “real” LOTR list:

Late summer 2012 “LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring” (8x sets/375 Euro…310 USD)

1) Saurons destiny (4 minifigures), (25 Euro)

Accessories: LEGO brickbuilt Sauron (little exploding function) /or molded Sauron, small rock

Minifigures: Elendil, Isildur, Elrond (warrior-outfit), Gil-galad (Noldor-king)

2) Last Alliance Battle-Pack, (15 Euro)

Minifigures: Gondor-soldier, Noldor-elf, 2x “variable” orcs

“Variable” means: 2(orc-torsos) x 2(heads) x 2(different faces pro head) x 2 helmets = 16 possible variations

That Battle-Pack gives us following effect:

-The Gondor-soldier you can to use for the following great battle “Siege of Gondor (Osgiliath/Minas Tirith)”

-The Noldor-elf you can to use for the battle of Helm’s Deep

-The two “variable” orcs you can to use for all other battles

3) Weather-top (3 minifigures), (15 Euro)

Accessories: rocks and ruin

Minifigures: Frodo as complete (invisible) transparent-figure, 2x nazguls (in dark shining-figures)

4) Ford of Bruinen (4 minifigures), (35 Euro)

Accessories: water (blue and white transparent bricks) 2x blue transparent water horses, rocks

Minifigures: Arwen (green rider outfit) + horse, Frodo (hurt), 2x nazguls (black rider outfit) + black horses

5) Moria-gate with Watcher (4 minifigures), (50 Euro)

Accessories: Moria-gate (in dark shining printed bricks or stickers) with collapse function, LEGO brickbuilt Watcher

Minifigures: Frodo (scared face/ angry face, classic outfit) with in dark shining stich (Frodo’s sword), Aragorn (classic outfit), Boromir (classic outfit), Sam (classic outfit)

6) Balin’s Tomb (7 minifigures), (70 Euro)

Accessories: LEGO brickbuilt or molded cave-troll with broad shoulder for Legolas shoot-out, Balin’s tomb

Minifigures: Gimli, Legolas, Merry, Pipin (all classic outfit), 2x Moria-goblins (short legs), dwarf skeleton

(7) The Bridge of Khazad-doom (45 Euro)

Accessories: LEGO brickbuilt/or molded Balrog with brick-light; his body is for fire a bit red/orange transparent, and his mouth and eyes to glow yellow (I hope that is not too extravagant). -Bridge with collapse-function.

Minifigures: Gandalf with molded LED-gleam wand

(8) Caras-galadhorn (7 minifigures), (120 Euro)

Accessories: big tree house with steps (inside the house and at the white/green roof over the steps are some in dark blue shining bricks), Galadriel’s mirror with changing water surface function (blue water/Sauron’s red eye)

Minifigures: Galadriel (shining figure), Galadriel, Celeborn, Haldir (classic outfit), Frodo (classic face, classic outfit), 2x Lothlorien-guards

I’ve to make sure that not the “same” minifigure contained in different sets in “one” wave. –In that wave I did put 4x “different” Frodo minifigures. (That positive for that rule is that we keep for all minifigures the collector-effect!)

Frodo’s variations:

-Weather-top: Frodo as complete (invisible) transparent-figure

-Ford of Bruinen: Frodo (hurt)

-Moria-gate with Watcher: Frodo (scared face/ angry face, classic outfit) with in dark shining stich (Frodo’s sword)

- Caras-galadhorn: Frodo (classic face, classic outfit)

So, now I’m excited about your comments. I do know that these license-sets are for the “price-performance ratio” as compared with a non-license theme like “Fantasie II” very expensive. –But if LEGO now to invest for that license and to molded new elements for these places –than kill LEGO two birds with one stone. Today a fantastic Tolkien-license –and tomorrow a also fantastic Fantasy II theme.

Transparent minifigures have been confirmed at this year's Brickfair to be impossible. Transparent parts are made of polycarbonate, a material that has a lot of friction against itself. Thus, attaching, for instance, a transparent cone to a transparent lightsaber blade is considered an "illegal connection" that will potentially damage both pieces. On a minifigure, part damage is an unavoidable consequence, since minifigures have many high-friction hinges on tiny parts that could easily snap from the pressure.

Some of your ideas are very good. However, others, like transparent minifigures, battle packs with "variable" minifigures, transparent horses, LED wands, and so forth are simply absurd. With many of these things, we have no reason to even think they are possible even for a company like TLG, and those which are possible could potentially be vetoed for safety reasons or cost reasons. Anticipating so many revolutionary concepts that have never been used for similar themes in the past is just hopelessly ambitious.

[Elander]

Ideas: Late summer 2013 “LOTR: The Two Towers” (7 sets/410 Euro...370 USD)

Hi,

would be at least an “Exclusive MODULAR/CREATOR add-on Series” realistic?

I do know that many of you would not like CREATOR sets (see some pages before) for license-themes (like LotR/Hobbit), but I think the possibilities are too amazing and I don’t want to give up this idea.

Here my new offer: What do you think if LEGO would to induce a separate (limited) CREATOR line for such license-themes. These sets would be available only at LEGO.com or in LEGO stores and TLG could test if that concept works.

Example: CREATOR fortifications, CREATOR creatures, CREATOR houses or simply other add-on sets.

I do talk just about a test. TLG to develop 1x or 2x CREATOR sets (limited) and later we will see if these sets to go down well with the public. We talked here in this topic about a lot of CREATOR possibilities and maybe you will later like these ideas too!?

Transparent minifigures have been confirmed at this year's Brickfair to be impossible. Transparent parts are made of polycarbonate, a material that has a lot of friction against itself. Thus, attaching, for instance, a transparent cone to a transparent lightsaber blade is considered an "illegal connection" that will potentially damage both pieces. On a minifigure, part damage is an unavoidable consequence, since minifigures have many high-friction hinges on tiny parts that could easily snap from the pressure.

Some of your ideas are very good. However, others, like transparent minifigures, battle packs with "variable" minifigures, transparent horses, LED wands, and so forth are simply absurd. With many of these things, we have no reason to even think they are possible even for a company like TLG, and those which are possible could potentially be vetoed for safety reasons or cost reasons. Anticipating so many revolutionary concepts that have never been used for similar themes in the past is just hopelessly ambitious.

Thanks for your comment,

You are right. Ok, the LED wand is too heavy but that transparent horses and minifigures don’t work destroys a lot of my ideas. -“The Fellowship of the Ring” was partially easy, but “The two Towers” is getting catchier.

At first, the areas become more complicated and larger (here would be some additional CREATOR-options really welcome) and second the lot of minifigures…

Ok, I’ve (unfortunately ) to be realistic and have to cancel many areas, if I want to create a “realistic” wave for “The two Towers”. Ok, let’s start:

The great battle of Isengard is canceled. Edoras and the “Golden Hall” are sorted out. Osgiliath and Ithilien are sorted out. Also my lovely CREATOR brickbuilt ent is sorted out…

Main character minifigures like Faramir (ranger-outfit), King Theoden (bewitched), Hama (murdered by warg-rider), white Gandalf (as shining figure, meeting in Fangorn forest)… are sorted out. Uruk-hai characters, Warg-rider, Faramirs companions, dunledings, Arwen and some elves at Rivendell are also sorted out. But it is not enough. 410 Euro or 370 USD are definitive too much for just one wave…

Additional are some characters like Eomer, Eowyn, Gandalf (generally) and so forth not at this wave because I hope I could get enough place for some important scenes at the next LOTR wave “The Return of the King”.

The hopefully “realistic” ideas:

1) Tree-beard (3 minifigures), (25 Euro)

Accessories: brickbuilt Tree-beard with wooden seats (branches) and big hands for Merry and Pippin. Green beard and big foots for to crush an orc

Minifigures: Merry and Pipin (Lorien-robe), orc

2) Dead Marshes (5 minifigures), (25 Euro)

Accessories: marsh with torches, small bush

Minifigures: Gollum, Frodo and Sam (Lorien-robe), in dark shining deader Noldor-elf and deader Gondor-soldier

3) The Black Gate (6 minifigures), (80 Euro)

Accessories: The Black Gate

Minifigures: Saurons Mounth, 3x orcs, 2x eastlings

2x brickbuilt/ or molded trolls

4) Oliphount (3 minifigures), (70 Euro)

Accessories: brickbuilt (inclusive new molded bricks) oliphount with tower

Minifigures: oliphount-rider, 2x haradrim

5) “The Two Towers” Battle Pack (4 minifigures), (20 Euro)

Minifigures: eastling, haradrim, Rohan-soldier with horse, uruk-hai (all figures get 2x face options)

6) Helm’s Deep, the Hornburg (11 minifigures), (160 Euro)

Accessories: Hornburg with tower and wall, battering ram, large ladder with winch traction

Minifigures: Haldir (armor), Aragorn (hauberk), King Theoden (armor), Gamling, Legolas (hauberk, green outfit), Gimli, Rohan-soldier, Noldor-elf, Uruk-hai commander, 2x uruk-hai

7) Helm’s Deep, the exploding Wall (5 minifigures), (30 Euro)

Accessories: modular wall (exploding function), some bombs, ledder

Minifigures: Rohan-soldier, Noldor-elf, uruk-hai (red face and baldy) with large sword, normal uruk-hai, bombing uruk-hai

-And additional a small problem. What is with Isengard? Middle-earth without Isengard is like Disneyland without Mickey Mouse.

Saruman, Grima Wormtongue and the Uruk-hai commander Lurtz (Boromir’s murder) should to get the Isengard tower. But I’ve no idea in which wave enough place for that LEGO-set is.

I’ve put in “The two Towers-wave” the Oliphount and the Black Gate because at the next movie “The Return of the King” the places to become larger and get any more buildings and minifigures…

…I am happy if LEGO really to produce the Hobbit/LotR, but also I realize that TLG would to develop just some scenes and not the genius possibilities. LEGO can develop 4x or 10x different Tie-fighters but Tolkien’s world could be really too huge for LEGO. It is very difficult to decide which buildings and characters must be canceled.

Without CREATOR for fantastic battles like in Isengard with a CREATOR ent -or a small CREATOR hobbit hole for the Shire -or a nice CREATOR tree house for Lothlorien -or or or… (and I talk only about outbuildings; no big extra license problems) become the Tolkien-theme still catchier.

And these buildings and creatures are technical possible to create for three variations.

-The ent needs just a option for big hands –or small hands, -big nose -or small nose, -big feeds –or small feeds… (just different marks, the body keep the same)

-The tree house needs for example just different branch- and little different window- or roof-options. The tree trunk keeps the same.

[YES, –some of you means that your kids would badly want too many LEGO-sets. That is the reason why I wrote about a separate limited CREATOR line (only available at LEGO.com).]

So, and I fears that I do to obsess me into a license-theme too much -which maybe don’t coming. The hopefully “realistic” ideas about a “Return of the King”-wave will be my last ideas about the Tolkien-theme. Many many ideas are listed here in the last pages and also in this topic. Theoretical and technical is the Hobbit/LotR more as possible –the only question is if you this license “really wants” and if LEGO want Middle-earth to implement “right”!?

-

Edited September 26, 2011 by Elander

[Cwetqo]

I see that LoTR fans like to read long books, but also like to write very long posts. ;)

Its interesting to see so many speculations and there are some nice ideas, but I am afraid that TLG will not be so inovative.

From what I know (and comes from reliable source) LoTR sets structure and pricing will be the same as in PoTC. There will be sets from all three LoTR movies in first wave (or at least from two, 1st and 2nd) and we will get Hobbit sets in 2nd wave.

[KristofBD]

I see that LoTR fans like to read long books, but also like to write very long posts. ;)

Its interesting to see so many speculations and there are some nice ideas, but I am afraid that TLG will not be so inovative.

From what I know (and comes from reliable source) LoTR sets structure and pricing will be the same as in PoTC. There will be sets from all three LoTR movies in first wave (or at least from two, 1st and 2nd) and we will get Hobbit sets in 2nd wave.

Thanks for this interesting information (and confirmation). I'm very curious about possible sets!

[SoupOrFishOil]

From what I know (and comes from reliable source) LoTR sets structure and pricing will be the same as in PoTC. There will be sets from all three LoTR movies in first wave (or at least from two, 1st and 2nd) and we will get Hobbit sets in 2nd wave.

Sorry, how do you know this?

[fred67]

From what I know (and comes from reliable source) LoTR sets structure and pricing will be the same as in PoTC. There will be sets from all three LoTR movies in first wave (or at least from two, 1st and 2nd) and we will get Hobbit sets in 2nd wave.

My apologies if I'm wrong, but I have to call BS. I simply do not believe it. Of course, I've been wrong before, but still, I'm not buying it.

[The Brick Rat]

My apologies if I'm wrong, but I have to call BS. I simply do not believe it. Of course, I've been wrong before, but still, I'm not buying it.

Don't be too quick to dismiss Cwetqo; he has given us reliable information in the past. A recent example - the first topic for the new Dino theme was started on August 11 (and at that point it was not yet confirmed). But a month before that (July 6) Cwetqo mentioned in a 2012 speculation topic that a new Dino theme was coming. I don't know the source of Cwetqo's information, but he's been right about these things before.

[fred67]

Like I said, I've certainly been wrong before (I bought that they'd "never" bring back HP, for example), but LOTR is a bit more major than Dino, not the least reason of which is that, as a licensed theme, it involves parties OUTSIDE of LEGO to keep it under wraps, too.

Don't get me wrong... as I've said all along, it's awesome if it happens, and I think it will be successful if they do it, I've just been better off being a skeptic.

Edited September 24, 2011 by fred67