Black Seas Barracuda vs Skull's Eye Schooner

[martinsuper]

There's a problem with this poll.

Voting between two pirate ships? This is like choosing between two devils...

I say let's vote between the Clipper and the Imperial Flagship, atleast those are crewed by civilized men and not some poxy, scurvy ridden, smelly scum! :-P

Here Here! I vote Clipper!

You know, its funny that these are the two ships everyone always talks about, and they are the ONLY two ships I DON'T have!

[Alblego]

I vote for SES

[BrickClick]

BSB all the way!

[J-MAN]

I like the SES better because I think the black and white sails look much cooler than the red and white ones.

[Runamuck]

Since the very first post suggests a battle between the two let’s make some comparisons.

Armament:

The Black Seas Barracuda has 4 cannons set up in permanent positions with two pointing out to each broadside.

The Skull’s Eye Schooner has 4 large cannon that can be positioned on one broadside or the other all at once. Additionally the Skull’s Eye has 2 deck guns and 2 smaller cannons.

Crew:

The BSB has 8 pirates.

The SES has 9 pirates.

Speed:

I know very little about how ships work, but I’m trying to go with some kind of logic perspective.

The BSB has 5 sails and a “weight” of 906-909 pieces.

The SES has 6 sails, some of which are slightly larger than the ones on the BSB, and a “weight” of 912 pieces.

Since the “weight” is almost identical I assume that the larger number of sails would make the SES slightly faster.

The Skull’s Eye Schooner has the Black Seas Barracuda outgunned, outnumbered and maybe outmanoeuvred, so I guess that the Skull’s eye would win.

[Lord Brick]

My vote goes to the SES.

The reason is, in terms of combat, that the SES would be more able to sink the BSB with a well placed broadside. Though that still does not mean the SES doesn't have disadvantages. Even though the SES outguns and out-mans the BSB, the BSB is faster, maneuvers better, and has full broadsides. Still, my vote goes to the SES.

P.S - I used the ESPG and some common sense to help me derive at this conclusion

Edited April 12, 2011 by Lord Brick

[Captain Fortune]

Skull's Eye Schooner.

I won't repeat the reasons, because other users have done it before. The only reason BSB is winnig the poll, is because of its popularity (was the first ship) however, is an awesome vessel too.

I only wanna add a reason in favour of SES:

If Captain Roger (Fortune in France ) would fight against the most powerful ship his enemies ever had (Imperial Flagship), the only Vessel that would give him any chance is the Skull's Eye Schooner.

The SES is the only ship capable to confront the IFS: It has crew and cannons enough to, at least, equalize the battle. In addition IFS is heavier than SES, so the Pirates could make more maneuvers, but it is also big enough to resist the enemy cannon fire and not sink after the first shots.

And an other important point: The SES has two triangular sails, wich allows it to sail against the wind, wich is not the case of BSB.

Despiste is an amazing vessel, BSB could not resist a cannon fire duel against the IFS, because of his lack of weapons, speed and maneuver.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Captain Fortune

[Palathadric]

Exactly! The Skull's Eye Schooner is the only ship that would stand a chance against the New Imperial Flagship. Don't get me wrong, the Black Seas Barracuda is nice, but I think if there's any argument between which of two ships is better, it should be between the Black Seas Barracuda and the Red Beard Runner. The Skull's Eye Schooner is way better than either.

[Captain Roger]

SES win...is much better than BSB

Reasons:

-black and white sails are betterthan red and white sails fr a pirate ship. I think pirate ships musn't be as visible as BSB because then people can see them easily.

-mobile cannons

Then SES is less visible than BSB and its cannons are more useful because they are mobiles. SES win

When I wrote this, I had SES but not BSB, so I didn't know the how great and wonderful is BSB. I was wrong when I said that.

Now I have both ships, BSB and SES, and I prefer BSB to SES because:

BSB poopdeck is much cooler and detailed than SES poopdeck. 1 point to BSB

BSB deck is much detailed and realistic than SES. SES deck looks empty compared with BSB. 1 point to BSB

BSB's anchor system is much better and realistic too. SES anchor system is an odd job. I really pity the pirate who must throw and raise the anchor, because he may fall into the water(anchor system is in the BOW!). 1 point to BSB

in 2005 I said SES sails are better because Black and white colours aren't as visible as red and white. I was wrong...SES sails are not discrete with that visible jolly roger emblem. BSB sails are more realistic. BSB can be camouflaged as a merchant ship if the pirates remove the flags...SES not. 1 point to BSB

BSB's cannons can shoot good. SES's cannons not. 1 point to BSB

If you enter a coffer in SES's stock, you can remove it easily. If you enter a coffer in BSB's stock...is really hard to remove it.

SES has working rudder. BSB not. 1 point to SES

TOTAL:

BSB: 5

SES: 2

So I have changed my vote

[4WD]

I think the Black Seas Barracuda is a nicer ship overall, but the real decision maker for me was the sails. The BSB doesn't fly skull and crossbones, so it's got the jump on avoiding ambushes from the Bluecoats. The SES has pirate sails, which look cool but won't do much when you're surrounded. Might as well go down in style, you say? I feel that if you aren't openly advertising your piracy, you might not be surrounded in the first place.

[Brinstar]

I think the BSB is a much nicer ship but in terms of firepower its wanting for a ship its size. With twice the broadside I'm convinced the SES would be victorious in this battle.

[legofett990]

Personally, I think in a battle between the 2, SES would come out on top. However, any other ship would stay away from SES due to the massive skull and crossbones adorning it's sails, where as BSB appears to be a merchant ship ship and so would attract attention from the 'good guys' who's ship they would plunder when it was too late And that's why I voted BSB

[SBCMayor]

Another older thread I'm reviving! 

In my Thoughts on the Second Wave thread I actually ranked the Skull's Eye Schooner 4th among the "big 4" sets in the second wave, being the Renegade Runner, Imperial Trading Post, and the Imperial Flagship. So naturally I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone that in a head to head against the Black Seas Barracuda my vote is for the BSB. I just think there is no topping those 1989 originals. 

When the SES came out I was definitely interested in it, but buy 1993 I was a little older (4 years older than in 1989 to be specific) and I wasn't quite as awestruck by it as I was by the BSB years before. Perhaps my vote is a product of those early impressions. Fast forward to this year when I decided to start collecting vintage pirate sets. I researched both carefully but quickly decided I'd be sticking with the BSB both for sentimental and practical reasons. With SES prices on secondary markets such as Ebay and Bricklink far exceeding the prices for a BSB, I've been able to actually get 2 BSBs for only slightly more than what it would have cost me to get 1 SES. The second BSB I've converted into an Imperial Ship. 

Perhaps in a few months I'll look again and add a SES to my collection, though I don't consider it a must have like the BSB. It's a nice sequel: what it lacks in original thought it makes up for in being bigger and more menacing. But it'll never be better than the original. 

 

[Pirate_King_1982]

The Skull’s Eye Schooner is a very nice ship and is really, really cool. However, the Barracuda wins for me. The only thing lacking in the Barracuda is the working compass that the Schooner has. But both ships are lovely and I would be proud to own either, or better yet both.

[TheCosmicTravelers]

One thing that I didn't really notice about the SES until I had built it is that the side windows of the stern cabin are completely open - there are no shutters!  I also don't like how the mizzenmast is so far aft - this mast would have little stability in reality.

I really appreciate that the remake of the Barracuda from Pirates of Barracuda Bay added a spanker sail to the mainmast - I always felt something was missing from BSB's sail plan.

[Dreamweb]

How come I've never posted here?

While the SES is bigger, the BSB is the better ship of the two. The deck looks much better with the long grey plates forming the main deck extending over the entire length of the ship, something the SES and many other ships are sadly missing. Plus the details, lots of them!

The BSB looks like a lot of effort was put into its overall appearance. The SES looks just like a ship made to serve its purpose of being dangerous, but not beautiful.

The BSB still remains one of the most legendary LEGO sets ever. Just look at the sheer number of times it was remade in various forms, and yes, I even consider the Brickbeard's Bounty and the Brick Bounty to be soft remakes of that set.

That having been said, I would really like to see an Icons-style remake of the SES one day for a change...

[TheCosmicTravelers]

No matter how well-armed one’s ship was, I doubt most pirates would have actually wanted to engage in a battle with Imperial warships (unless it was a treasure ship). In addition to the higher risk of death and destruction, the large crew necessary to operate all of the guns well means any booty would need to be divided among more bodies. Marking one’s ship blatantly as a pirate ship is also just asking for trouble from the authorities. It’s just bad business.

Also one must consider that potential targets would also easily notice pirates coming from far away and would thus take evasive/defensive maneuvers earlier, making any pirating more difficult (especially if their ship is faster and more maneuverable than your lumbering warship weighed down by all that cannon, shot, powder, and gun-crew).

[Doddsino]

 I'm actually surprised that the Barracuda is winning.

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice set, but it's a little too primitive in it's appearance. 

The yellow foscle(?) is off-putting to me. It looks way better on the Caribbean Clipper. Maybe green would look better, but I never cared for the yellow.

 

Everything else is just a *slight* notch better on the Schooner. Yeah, you can argue that it doesn't innovate as much, but it just looks better to me. Both are excellent ships.

 

I even like the Red Beard Runner to an extent.

[SBCMayor]

I have 2 BSBs, one of which is in its original design and the other I've converted into an imperial blue ship while simultaneously converting a Caribbean Clipper into a red-sail pirate ship. 

I've had my eye on the SES for a while now even though of the original five ships from 1989, 1992, and 1993 I like it the least. I think I like the idea of having all 5 more than the actual ship itself. I think from a distance it is easily one of the most epic looking sets Lego has ever released. But every time I get myself mentally amped up to spend the money on one, as I start looking closely at the deck area, cabin, sliding cannons, and color scheme of the hull and interior of the ship I just can't get myself excited for it.

So my son and I were discussing an alternative. Why not purchase a third BSB and modify it with SES sails? I can make other minor modifications to give it the overall appearance of the SES but it would retain everything I love about the BSB too. 

Pricewise I can do this for less than what a SESs would cost me. 

The downside: It would lack the authenticity of the actual SES, and undermine my goal of having each of the initial 5 ships. 

The upside: I'd probably like the final result more than the SES. Cost is another benefit to this approach. 

I'm not clever enough to do a MOC. Love what some of you all are doing with those. I am content to take what's available and customize to my liking. Anyone have any thoughts on this?