Heroica Theatre

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Warlen? Chaotic Neutral. He gives zero butts about the laws, and he definitely fills the criteria of "does what he thinks is right at the time".

[Flipz]

Lind is...Lawful Neutral Good, maybe?

He's not really enough of a "crusader" to be Lawful Good, but he does respect laws to the point where he isn't really Neutral...

I'd class Lind as Lawful Evil, actually.

This is a great Theatre discussion, so I'm throwing it here.

Chaotic Neutral, maybe Chaotic Good. Arthur tends to want what's best for everyone, but a.) over time, his focus has narrowed from "best for the world" to more of "best for the people I personally care about", and b.) he's always tended to define "best for everyone" as "what I personally think is best for everyone", which is not a Good-aligned attitude.

[Lind Whisperer]

And for those looking to play evil characters, no. Just no. This is Heroica, not Evilica. The moment a character knows you're evil, you're done. No one has any reason to trust you, and there's no reason for any other character to not outright murder your character if they're good aligned. Hopefully this video helps explain this.

I think a "Richard*" style character just, just, just barely might be possible...but you'd need to be Waterbrick Down/Kintobar/Zepher/Flipz/etc. levels of skilled to just barely pull it off. And even Richard isn't really evil - he's more Chaotic Humorous.

*Looking For Group.

[Emjajoas]

It's hard to class since I'm still not 100% sure about "who he is," but Mortimer is probably a True Neutral who's trying to become more of a Neutral Good.

[Dragonfire]

I'd say Avalanche is definitely Neutral, but I'm not sure which one of the three categories he fits into from there. He's not as stiff and law-abiding as Neutral Good, and he's not as dont-careish as True Neutral. Chaotic Neutral doesn't really describe him either.

[Flipz]

I'd say Avalanche is definitely Neutral, but I'm not sure which one of the three categories he fits into from there. He's not as stiff and law-abiding as Neutral Good, and he's not as dont-careish as True Neutral. Chaotic Neutral doesn't really describe him either.

Actually, Neutral Good would be a good fit for him; I think you're thinking of Lawful Neutral in terms of stiff and law-abiding.

[Dragonfire]

It's hard to class since I'm still not 100% sure about "who he is," but Mortimer is probably a True Neutral who's trying to become more of a Neutral Good.

Actually, that fits Avalanche as well. He's kind of in-between; he cares about people and the law to some extent, but he views his own moral compass as stronger than the law.

[UsernameMDM]

Neutral Good if anyone was having problems telling what alignment Hoke is.

[Dragonfire]

Actually, Neutral Good would be a good fit for him; I think you're thinking of Lawful Neutral in terms of stiff and law-abiding.

Yeah, I was

[Lind Whisperer]

I'd class Lind as Lawful Evil, actually.

I guess I can see that. I'd say any Lawful Evil attributes he has are more his Knight Templar attitude shining through...But then again, Knight Templar can be Lawful Evil...

Again, you have to be able to work with a group. Sometimes, you can have a character whose personality drives them to turn on their party in a dramatic betrayal, but that can't be the norm. If your character's every word and action is solely for themselves regardless of the well-being of the party, there is no place for them in this game. When you're constantly fighting with and undermining your own allies, you're not only disrupting the party in-universe, you're disrupting the Quest itself and your fellow players' experiences, not to mention making your QM's life a lot more difficult as they now have to juggle how much they can indulge your individual whims without completely ruining their plans and the fun of your fellow players.

Yes. This. So, so, so much this.

Flipz, could you add that post of yours to the front page of the Theatre? That is some of the best advice I've ever seen on here - it deserves the front page.

[Flipz]

Actually, Na'im on 136 specifically has done pretty well with being difficult without demolishing the Quest for anyone else. Can't say the same about him on 128, but then again the entire party other than Boris had the whole "doesn't play well with others" problem on 128, which is why I didn't enjoy following it.

[Palathadric]

I'd class Lind as Lawful Evil, actually.

I guess there's a difference between the way you say yourself and the way others see you.

Would Pretzel be Lawful Evil or Lawful Good? He's certainly no neutral, but I don't really know how these titles work anyway.

[Kintobor]

I guess there's a difference between the way you say yourself and the way others see you.

Would Pretzel be Lawful Evil or Lawful Good? He's certainly no neutral, but I don't really know how these titles work anyway.

Lind posted this, and I actually think this is really well written.

Anyone want to take a crack at Karie? She's no Lawful character, considering her distaste for the Watch, but I don't think she's 100% good, either.

[Flipz]

I guess there's a difference between the way you say yourself and the way others see you.

Would Pretzel be Lawful Evil or Lawful Good? He's certainly no neutral, but I don't really know how these titles work anyway.

Pretzel is a really inconsistent character. On the one hand, he leans toward Evil because his outlook seems entirely self-centered (people are "good" or "evil" in his view based on what he personally thinks of them), but on the other he does support his party and help out the people he thinks are good (which is somewhat Good-aligned). On the Good-Evil axis, I'd probably put him as Neutral. He definitely seems more Chaotic than anything else on the Lawful-Chaotic spectrum, though.

[Endgame]

Lind posted this, and I actually think this is really well written.

Anyone want to take a crack at Karie? She's no Lawful character, considering her distaste for the Watch, but I don't think she's 100% good, either.

I'd peg her as chatoic good, honestly. She's certainly not evil, and I don't think she's the ultimate "free spirit" a chaotic neutral is.

[Lind Whisperer]

I'd peg her as chatoic good, honestly. She's certainly not evil, and I don't think she's the ultimate "free spirit" a chaotic neutral is.

Same.

[Flipz]

Does anyone want to take a swing at making a Theatre skit for the concept of "playing well with others"? I've wanted to see other QMs take on the challenge of skit-making for a while now, and since I can't think of a sufficiently comedic means of demonstrating the concept, I'm turning to y'all.

[Kintobor]

Does anyone want to take a swing at making a Theatre skit for the concept of "playing well with others"? I've wanted to see other QMs take on the challenge of skit-making for a while now, and since I can't think of a sufficiently comedic means of demonstrating the concept, I'm turning to y'all.

I can try. Give me a bit.

[Yzalirk]

The Wolfgang isn't evil though. They're more than likely chaotic neutral.

And for those looking to play evil characters, no. Just no. This is Heroica, not Evilica. The moment a character knows you're evil, you're done. No one has any reason to trust you, and there's no reason for any other character to not outright murder your character if they're good aligned. Hopefully this video helps explain this.

Sorry, the speakers for my computer are messed up so I can't really watch the video.

So how does one portray Chaotic Neutral character? I just don't want to have this goody-two-shoes of a character, that's pretty much all. The more I really think about it, I think a character who likes killing and instilling fear is what I'm trying to go for. Interactions with other Heroes is very important indeed and I do like the sadistic joking type, for example "Break open that door or I'll have to rip your arms off and do it for ya.".

Again, you have to be able to work with a group. Sometimes, you can have a character whose personality drives them to turn on their party in a dramatic betrayal, but that can't be the norm. If your character's every word and action is solely for themselves regardless of the well-being of the party, there is no place for them in this game. When you're constantly fighting with and undermining your own allies, you're not only disrupting the party in-universe, you're disrupting the Quest itself and your fellow players' experiences, not to mention making your QM's life a lot more difficult as they now have to juggle how much they can indulge your individual whims without completely ruining their plans and the fun of your fellow players.

Conflict is good, great even; it's the basis for all good storytelling. But you have to know when to draw the line, when to put aside your/your character's desires for the sake of not ruining your fellow players' and QM's experience. Take a look at Sarge; in his first few Quests, he got it all wrong, being violent and contrary for the sake of being violent and contrary. But over time, he learned to be grumpy and cantankerous without disrupting his fellow players' experiences. Hel, I feel like Eric (played by Khorne) is still the best example of a "contrary" character, just based on how he acted in the final battle of Quest 58--his character did not agree with the party's decision, but he participated anyway for the sake of not ruining their experience. He did apply his own restrictions to his participation, but they were reasonable ones that served as a good balance between his character's wants and what was best for the Quest overall.

Working with others will have to be something this character would have to get used to because, he being a tribal Dwarf, he hasn't had any interactions with any other races. I could definitely see that when he gets used to his companions, he'll take them under his (metaphorical) wing and treat them as he would with others from his old tribe. Again, this is pretty much inspired by the interactions with Hodurr Thornback from Quest #100 where the heroes weren't too fond of him but they came to and liked him.

Interactions with NPC's is another thing too. Like I said, he always loves his fair share of bashing skulls and getting some killer loot.

The one thing I just can't seem to get right would be his speech. I like how Hodurr Thornback talked in the sense it wasn't so stereotypical English. He spoke completely different and I think words like "yer" would be a necessity. I do like the Scottish accent Dain Ironfoot had in The Battle of the Five Armies so a combination of both characters I mentioned is what I'm thinking of but putting it in text is what I'm just so confused on.

[Endgame]

Does anyone want to take a swing at making a Theatre skit for the concept of "playing well with others"? I've wanted to see other QMs take on the challenge of skit-making for a while now, and since I can't think of a sufficiently comedic means of demonstrating the concept, I'm turning to y'all.

I can, but if Kintobor is working on it, anything else I can tackle?

[Kintobor]

So how does one portray Chaotic Neutral character? I just don't want to have this goody-two-shoes of a character, that's pretty much all. The more I really think about it, I think a character who likes killing and instilling fear is what I'm trying to go for. Interactions with other Heroes is very important indeed and I do like the sadistic joking type, for example "Break open that door or I'll have to rip your arms off and do it for ya.".

The character you described is "Chaotic Evil", and that particular alignment should be avoided in this game.

I can, but if Kintobor is working on it, anything else I can tackle?

Shall we team up?

[Endgame]

The character you described is "Chaotic Evil", and that particular alignment should be avoided in this game.

Shall we team up?

Yep. Shoot me a PM of anything you got, I'll do so soon (dinner).

[Palathadric]

So long as it's not all LDD creations.

[Emjajoas]

There's a big difference between someone who likes killing and someone who likes fighting/honour/glory/etc.

Someone who likes Killing is, to be frank, a bit of a terrible person. There's nothing good or redeeming about killing. There's no reason for someone who likes killing to be in the Heroica organization, really, because Heroica isn't really a place to go where someone wants to kill something. It's a place to help others.

However, someone who likes fighting or the honour/glory that comes with fights? That's redeemable. They like the fight itself, like the adrenaline, and aren't focused solely on killing something. Certainly sometimes a character like that is going to wind up killing people, but that doesn't mean they enjoy the killing or find it necessary. It gives them a chance to be merciful, to be something beyond "I kill for sport because I enjoy it." It gives them an interesting moral dilemma (Something I Enjoy VS Something that is Morally Right). It gives them more of a ground to stand on and it gives more of a connection to Heroica as a organization and to the other Heroes (I Joined For Honour and Glory). A character doesn't have to be a goody-two-shoes to be good, and a character doesn't have to be "evil" to be "interesting and fresh and new."

That's the difference between Evil and Neutral, in this case, I think.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Emjajoas

[Enceladus]

Actually, Na'im on 136 specifically has done pretty well with being difficult without demolishing the Quest for anyone else. Can't say the same about him on 128, but then again the entire party other than Boris had the whole "doesn't play well with others" problem on 128, which is why I didn't enjoy following it.

It seems I have a follower! It's good to have some reassurance about Na'ims behaviour on quest 136, since I'm always worried he might have gone a bit too far and started to get annoying for the party to listen to, but more about that once I post my thoughts at the end of quest 136

As for Na'ims alignment...I'd say lawful neutral. Na'im is a logical person and understands the need for rules, and hates the idea of chaos, and generally keeps his emotions in check, but in his world, it is always Na'im that comes first. Either way, I don't really see him as having much of a moral compass, and simply weighing up the options and seeing what would be best in the long term for him.