Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Endgame]

In my opinion it doesn't really have enough options. Just to put it up against minstrels they have a larger variety of songs to use that buff the whole party. A few tonics and they can keep singing or just a lucky shield roll and the party receives a helpful boost of some sort. The Spirit Medium as less options and to actually support the entire party and not just themselves they have to consume a large amount of souls in comparison. And even ignoring the songs the minstrel which is a support class has an AoE attack along with a half chance stun for each enemy which by itself is pretty strong even ignoring the variety of songs that can buff the party. Alchemist also have a larger and better variety which makes up for not being as hard a hitter. Canoneers can AoE attack pretty darn hard and if the correct element is added double that. Necromancers and Dragoons have an extremely high damaging roll on a 2 while the Spirit Medium doesn't seem to be able to support to the extent or variety of other classes and even with the negative effects inflicted cannot hit as nearly as hard without a ton of soul counters. I'm in support of it being beefed up or at least becoming quite a bit more versatile.

Looking at all of the other classes, it seems to fit in rather well in terms of power:

-Minstrels gobble up ether like crazy - since they chug tonics like no tomorrow and are bound to run out, the Spirit Medium's ether rejuvanating abillities could help out.

-Alchemist has little to no actual battle capabilities - they are vending machines, basically. (Not to devalue them, their item creating abilities are awesome, but their rolls are literally no better then a basic class's, barring their Miss.) The Spirit Medium outdoes them on the offensive field by quite a bit. Fragile and Weakened seem largely underestimated.

-Cannoneers have an elemental ravage that forces the use of a consumable.

-Dragoons essentially stun themselves on rolls of Critical Hit, and have no means of restoring themselves - Building an undead army is far harder then harvesting souls, since one stun and it falls to pieces.

Spirit Medium is basically a class with fairly good attack that sports the ability to keep building up their power, or lessen their power to heal, buff, and restore their allies. Also, it has Special Mirror, so that helps it in comparison to Alchemists and Minstrels.

This class seems uber-powerful if your teamed up with a person who has an AOE attack and a Person who is a single target damage dealer assuming they both have Strong Weapon(WP15-20) such as Romulus and Guts. They just need to be buffed for the first attack before they can pratically wipe out the entire enemy party. Then the spirit medium can buff a single target damage dealer(Hunter) such as Skrall and Xander and the hunter can deal tons of damage to the bosses.

Implying the heroes you cited usually aren't buffed up anyway? Minstrels and Alcehmists are exactly like that too, in that regard. Except they do it to the entire party.

Their buffs need to be placed well, but if used correctly their Suls can be expended to change the outcome of a battle.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Endgame

[Tachyon]

I can imagine King Guts helping the spirit medium gain 20 souls after a turn.......................

[Jebediahs]

Templar

These paladins give up the ability to heal in order to dispense more damage.

* Additional Health: +20

* Additional Ether: +5 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)

* Weapons: Long swords, great swords, lances, halberds, shields, diamonds, scrolls

* Job Traits: Sword and Board - Able to fight with sword and shield.

Turn Undead - Spells cause x10 damage versus enemies weak to the light element.

Divine Spellcasting - Templars use the power of light to perform minor miracles.

* Battle Style: Retribution - Templars right all wrongs.

1. SHIELD:

Empowered Smite

- The templar bursts with energy from his deity. All enemies are hit with a light spell in an amount equal to weapon power multiplied by three then added to level and shield power with a 50/50 chance of stunning each enemy for three turns at the cost of no ether (WP: 20x3 + Lvl 30 + SP: 15 = 105 damage + 50% chance to stun). Additionally, all undead on the battlefield are destroyed, including Necromancer pets

and NPCs!

.

2. GREAT SPELL/CRITICAL SWORD & BOARD/GREATER SHIELD BASH: The templar attacks target with strength equal to weapon power multiplied by two then added to level and shield power (WP:20x2 + Lvl 30 + SP: 15 = 85 damage) or may choose to spend one ether to cast a light elemental spell with strength equal to weapon power multiplied by two added to level (WP:20x2 + Lvl 30 = 70 damage). Optionally, the templar may attack the target with his shield only with strength equal to shield power added to level and a 50/50 chance to stun the opponent for two turns (e.g. SP:15 + Lvl 30 = 45 damage + 50% chance to stun).

3. SPELL/SWORD AND BOARD/SHIELD BASH: The templar attacks target with strength equal to weapon power added to level and shield power (WP:20 + Lvl 30 + SP: 15 = 65 damage) or may choose to spend one ether to cast a light elemental spell with strength equal to weapon power added to level (WP:20 + Lvl 30 = 50 damage). Optionally, the templar may attack the target with his shield only with strength equal to shield power and a 50/50 chance to stun the opponent for one turn (e.g. SP:15 = 15 damage + 50% chance to stun).

4. INTERVENE: The templar is struck by the enemy’s attack the next time a party member rolls damage.

5. DEFENDED DAMAGE: The templar is struck by his opponent’s attack. Damage is reduced by SP.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The templar is struck by his opponent’s special skill.

[Brickdoctor]

So like the opposite of a Black Knight.

Please make them able to use bows.

[CMP]

Pretty nice. Seems like a offensive Paladin. Only a few things I think could be changed, it's very overpowered

The additional health and ether is massive, they should both be lowered. The Turn Undead should also have a much lower multiplier. On a normal spell, that's 500 damage to Demons and Undead, and 700 on a critical, which is just an insane amount of damage. The options of both Sword and Board and Shield Bash is a little too much in my opinion, I think you'd be better off changing at least one to a regular Hit. Empowered Smite is very, very powerful. Every single Undead on the field is instantly killed, in addition to 105 damage to every single enemy, and a 50% chance to stun each? I think maybe you should remove the insta-undead kill and lower the power to just WP + SP + Level with the chance to stun. Intervene, though, is very cool.

[Palathadric]

Wow! Pretty awesome, I must say.

[Endgame]

It seems really overpowered, but has some great concepts. 10 times damage is absolutely insane -stack it with an amethyst and you got an automatic x20 multiplier on undead. I would maybe remove the insta-undead death clause and drop the multiplier to x2/x3.

Other then those two bits, everything else seems good - I';d just nerf down all of the actual numbers themselves.

[Flipz]

So like the opposite of a Black Knight.

Please make them able to use bows.

Doc. If you recall, you don't want to be able to damage Undead-type enemies, remember?

[Brickdoctor]

Doc. If you recall, you don't want to be able to damage Undead-type enemies, remember?

Hmm? OH! Oh...Shhhh...

Isn't it more of a case of you and another hero not wanting me to be able to Damage them?

[Flipz]

Hmm? OH! Oh...Shhhh...

Isn't it more of a case of you and another hero not wanting me to be able to Damage them?

Well, yes, but it's better for you this way. Besides, you aren't even supposed to attack at all unless it's absolutely necessary, given...stuff.

I'll shut up now.

[Sandy]

It's nice that you guys keep on putting all these job classes here for public evaluation, but just to recap, if you actually want to get your class into the game, it needs to fill these following requirements:

1. It must be an expert job class, available at Level 30 upon fulfilling certain requirements.

2. It must be tied to a faction (or a well-known profession).

3. You need to have acted as a Quest Master, so that you have achieved a good understanding about the rules.

Then, if all these requirements are filled and you're seriously suggesting your job class to be implemented to the game, PM me with details about how you're planning to implement it. I will then review the job class and either approve it, turn it down, or ask you to make some adjustments. And then maybe you'll one day see your class played by other players - or even yourself.

[Jebediahs]

Puppeteer

These heroes never stopped playing with toys.

Requires player to use 20 skeleton decoys in a single quest.

* Additional Health: +4

* Weapons: Staves, Daggers

* Job Trait(s): Advanced Puppetry - The puppeteer’s presence adds 100 health to all decoys on the field of battle.

Puppet Control - The puppeteer controls a puppet for every ten levels of experience.

Focused Performance - Puppets deal double damage when all the puppeteer’s puppets target the same opponent as the puppeteer.

* Battle Style: Puppetry- Puppeteers use puppets and decoys.

1. SHIELD:

Marionette Masterpiece

- The puppeteer hexes his target for three rounds. Additionally, all puppets activate their SHIELD abilities.

2. CRITICAL HIT: The puppeteer hits his target with strength in an amount equal to twice his weapon power added to level (WP: 20 x 2 + Level 30 = 70 damage). Additionally, all puppets hit/heal their targets with strength equal to the puppeteer’s level.

3. HIT: The puppeteer hits his target with strength in an amount equal to his weapon power added to level (WP: 20 + Level 30 = 50 damage). Additionally, all puppets hit/heal their targets with strength equal to 1/2 the puppeteer’s level.

4. REPAIR PUPPET: The puppeteer restores health to all puppets in an amount equal to weapon power (WP 20 = 20 health restored to all puppets). Additionally, all puppets miss their targets as they’re retrieved for repairs.

5. DAMAGE: The puppeteer is struck by his opponent’s attack. Additionally, all puppets are struck by their targets’ damage.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE:

The puppeteer is struck by his opponent’s special damage. Additionally, all puppets are struck by their targets’ special damage.

PUPPETS

The puppeteer controls one puppet for every ten levels of experience earned (i.e. Level 30 = 3 puppets controlled). The puppeteer may choose from three puppet types, fighter, ranged, healer. Any combination of the three types may be used. The puppeteer may select individual targets for his puppets to attack but each puppet shares the /roll of its puppeteer. For instance, if the puppeteer /rolls DAMAGE versus his target, all his puppets /roll DAMAGE versus their targets as well. If the puppeteer chooses to do nothing, his puppets must do nothing as well. On the turn a puppeteer uses a consumable, his puppets do nothing. Puppets deal elemental damage and effects that are attached to the puppeteer’s primary weapon.

Fighter

- This melee puppet fights primarily from the front row or improves its defense by standing in the back.

Level 1/2 of Puppeteer

SP: 10

Health: 100 + Puppeteer’s level

SHIELD:

Hunker Down

- The fighter puppet gains 2 SP for the next three rounds (stacks).

CRIT: The fighter puppet attacks target with strength equal to its level multiplied by two (i.e. Level 15 x 2 = 30 damage)

Ranged

- This ranged puppet attacks for full damage from the back row.

Level 1/2 of Puppeteer

Health: 30 + Puppeteer’s level

SHIELD:

Multi Shot

- The ranged puppet hits all enemies with strength equal to its level multiplied by three (i.e. Level 15 x 3 = 45 damage to all enemies)

CRIT: The ranged puppet hits its target with strength equal to its level multiplied by two (Level 15 x 2 = 30 damage)

Healer

- This puppet can heal allies but cannot attack physically. Receives the damage and negative effects from the puppeteer’s target on DAMAGE and SPECIAL DAMAGE /rolls when no enemy target has been selected.

Level 1/2 of Puppeteer

Health: 40 + Puppeteer’s level

SHIELD:

Heal All

- The healer puppet heals the party in an amount equal to the puppet’s level.

CRIT: The healer puppet heals its target for in an amount equal to the puppet’s level multiplied by 2 (Level 15 x 2 = 30 health restored)

[CMP]

Interesting...the Shield (and the Fighter's, too) could use a buff, and the way to access the class is just weird, but other than, it's pretty cool and well-balanced.

[Flipz]

I...really like this one. Well done, I think we've finally found a good summon-based Expert Class.

I like how no matter how hard I try, I can't find a way to break the class--and yet, it's not overly restrictive--that's a rarity.

Pie: I agree on the fighter, not on the Puppetteer himself--hexing is fine, considering flavor and the fact that the Puppetteer is getting rather good SHIELDs from his puppets. Perhaps a good Fighter SHIELD would be:

SHIELD - Hunker Down: the Puppetteer and all his puppets take 1/2 damage (rounded down) for the next Round.

[Flare]

Personally I find the puppets themselves a bit too powerful... Otherwise it is a really neat class.

[Kintobor]

I too concur! I really like this class! This seems like a class Karie would take if she goes is a little nutty (which at this rate is totally in the realm of possibility! ) I like how versatile the class is. It can be offensive, defence, or healing, or a combination of. Also, if a puppet's health reaches zero, what happens to it? Perhaps the requirements should be "Has completed certain Bilbert Wigglepike quests"?

[Flipz]

I too concur! I really like this class! This seems like a class Karie would take if she goes is a little nutty (which at this rate is totally in the realm of possibility! ) I like how versatile the class is. It can be offensive, defence, or healing, or a combination of. Also, if a puppet's health reaches zero, what happens to it? Perhaps the requirements should be "Has completed certain Bilbert Wigglepike quests"?

Funnily enough, I was just thinking the same thing. In fact, I've been playing around for a few weeks with plans for a character in Heroica Theatre who's a ventriloquist (I haven't found a good "lesson" to put them in, but I'm still in the early stages of concept design anyway). Jebs, if you'd like, drop me a PM and we can start working it out.

[Jebediahs]

Also, if a puppet's health reaches zero, what happens to it?

Hah. Good question. Guess it's either disabled, waiting to be repaired or healed by a healer? Dunno :-D

Perhaps the requirements should be "Has completed certain Bilbert Wigglepike quests"?

Funnily enough, I was just thinking the same thing. In fact, I've been playing around for a few weeks with plans for a character in Heroica Theatre who's a ventriloquist (I haven't found a good "lesson" to put them in, but I'm still in the early stages of concept design anyway). Jebs, if you'd like, drop me a PM and we can start working it out.

That ventriloquist character sounds pretty neat.

You can be the Puppetmaster and do whatever you want with the class. Chop it up, make changes, make it whatever faction related. I release it to the interwebs. I don't have plans (no ideas) for which factions to attach any of my class proposals to which is why they're either posted with a non-faction requirement (50 Shades of Bley) or no requirement at all and don't go pass the informal proposal stage. Everyone feel free to take any of my suggestions, make modifications, submit to Sandy, make modifications, submit to Sandy again, make further modifications, submit to Sandy until it works out for your quest idea.

On to the next...

Bainshee

These mages aren't banshees but they're still pretty spooky.

(Requires player to be KO’d by any undead enemy. Female characters only)

* Additional Health: +3

* Additional Ether: +10

* Weapons: Staves, Wands, Scrolls. Gems

* Job Trait(s): Corporeal Form - The bainshee’s default form allows the ability to grant ether bubbles and Counterspellin’ - After receiving a free hit, the Bainshee retaliates with a spell equal to the Bainshee’s power at the cost of 1 ether. If out of ether, nothing happens.

Ethereal Form - Bainshees can change to a non-corporeal form that is immune to all elemental damage before each turn in combat or out of combat at will to pass through solid objects at the cost of 5 ether. The bainshee deals extra damage in an amount equal to her level in the form of a wail with each successful attack that hits all enemies. The strain of this form deducts 1 ether per round of combat. Bainshees receive half damage from DAMAGE /rolls but take double damage from SPECIAL DAMAGE /rolls. No ether is lost when returning to normal form.

Spellcasting - (see Mage).

* Battle Style: Wraithly - Bainshees wail as they phase in and out of existence, focus solely on spellcasting and don’t attack physically.

1. SHIELD:

Phantasmal Wail

- The bainshee attacks all enemies with an elemental spell with strength in an amount equal to weapon power added to level followed by a non-elemental piercing wail that hits all enemies with strength equal to the bainshee’s level (WP:20 + Level 30 + Level 30 = 50 elemental damage and 30 non-elemental damage to all enemies). Additionally, the bainshee restores ether to the entire party in an amount equal to her weapon power then reinforces the party for the next round.(i.e. WP 20 = 20 ether restored to entire party + Reinforced). Bainshee loses no ether in the round this is rolled.

2. GREAT SPELL/GREATER ETHER BUBBLE: The bainshee spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength in an amount equal to weapon power multiplied by two added to level followed by a non-elemental piercing wail that hits all enemies with strength equal to the bainshee’s level (WP:20x2 + Level 30 = 70 elemental damage to target + 30 damage to all enemies). Optionally, if in corporeal form, the bainshee may choose to spend 1 ether to cast an ether bubble on a party member that regenerates 3 ethers per round for the target for three rounds.

3. SPELL/ ETHER BUBBLE: The bainshee spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength in an amount equal to weapon power added to level followed by a non-elemental piercing wail that hits all enemies with strength equal to the bainshee’s level (WP:20 + Level 30 = 50 elemental damage to target + 30 damage to all enemies). Optionally, if in corporeal form, the bainshee may choose to spend 1 ether to cast an ether bubble on a party member that regenerates 3 ethers per round for the target for two rounds.

4. MEDITATE/ LESSER ETHER BUBBLE: The bainshee concentrates to regain 1 ether. Optionally, if in corporeal form, the bainshee may choose to spend 1 ether to cast an ether bubble on a party member that regenerates 3 ethers per round for the target for one round.

5. DAMAGE/NO ETHER BUBBLE: The bainshee is struck by her target’s attack. Damage is halved if bainshee is in ethereal form. Optionally, any attempt at bubbling fails.

6. SPECTRAL GUARD/NO ETHER BUBBLE: The bainshee has a 1/2 chance of avoiding the damage component of her opponent’s special skill. The bainshee receives double damage if hit while in ethereal form. Optionally, any attempt at bubbling fails.

[Jebediahs]

Skald

These barbarians really know how to shout (shout) to let it all out.

Requirements: Must have played a Barbarian class for at least 5 quests.

* Additional Health: +4

* Weapons: Axes, Maces, and Swords

* Job Trait(s): Kindred Spirits - The skald inspires other barbarian classes in the party to do an additional 10 damage with all attacks.

Barbarous Rage - The skald’s presence riles up other barbarians making the damage component of their SHIELD abilities apply to all enemies (if they don’t already) but causes each barbarian to be permanently Enraged.

Natural Respite - (See barbarian).

* Battle Style: Whooping - Skalds use powerful shouts in battle.

1. SHIELD:

Warholler

- The skald belts out a powerful shout that causes all enemies to bleed for the remainder of the battle. Additionally, all allies are hastened for the next round.

2. CRITICAL WHOOPING HIT: The skald hits his target with strength equal to weapon power multiplied by two then added to level (WP: 20x2 + Level 30 = 70 damage). Additionally the skald lets out a battle whoop that subtracts one number from the die roll of the party member listed immediately after the skald in the order of actions.

3. WHOOPING HIT: The skald hits his target with strength equal to weapon power added to level (WP:20 + Level 30 =50 damage). Additionally, the skald lets out a battle whoop that subtracts one number from the die roll of the party member listed immediately after the skald in the order of actions.

4. WHOOP: The skald spends his turn whooping which subtracts one number from the die roll of the party member listed immediately after the skald in the order of actions.

5. YELPING DAMAGE: The skald is struck by the enemy’s attack. Additionally, the skald lets out a blood curdling cry of despair that weakens the resolve of the party member listed immediately after the skald in the order of actions for the next three rounds.

6. YELPING SPECIAL DAMAGE: The skald is struck by the enemy’s special skill. Additionally, the skald lets out a blood curdling cry of despair that weakens the resolve of the party member listed immediately after the skald in the order of actions for the next three rounds.

[Palathadric]

Requirements: Must have played a Barbarian class for at least 5 quests.

I kind of like this. It gives the opportunity to people who may not have started as Barbarians, but have played Barbarian classes for long enough that they've grown rather adept at it.

[Endgame]

By the by, if anyone wants to test-run their Expert Class, I invented a set of enemies to use as punching bags:

Mead, Level 53 Fire

HP: 675/675

SP: 8

Immune to Stunned, Sealing, Armor Sundering and Blindness!

Specials:

Buff Up: Boosts every enemy's level by 4. This proves much to the heroes' chagrin, Enraging the hero who rolled Special Damage.

Spill: This Mead is not edible... it spills over, Badly Poisoning the entire party.

Specials alternate.

Smelling Salts, Level 36 Water *Hastened!*

HP: 460/460

SP: 11

Immune to Blindness, Sealing, Hexed, and Sleep!

Specials:

Liqour is Quicker: Marks the hero who rolled Special Damage, automatically dealing 20 damage at the end of every round.

Bad Whiff: The hero who rolls Special Damage takes a whiff of the Smelling Salts... but being a creation of The Regret, it Dooms them. (Can be remedied or removed for 13 ether.)

Specials decided by die roll.

Nostrum, Level 41 Electric *Lucky!*

HP: 550/550

SP: 4

Immune to Blindness, Hexed, and Confusion!

Specials:

Tastes So Good: Heroicans, no matter the taste, are addicted to these. The hero whoi rolls Special Damage is both Enamored and Cursed.

Withdrawls: Try as they might, the heroes simply cannot take a sip of this delicious drink. All suffer 38 damage from withdrawls.

Specials decided by die roll.

[CMP]

An old favorite I've been trying to figure out for some time.

Engineer

• Additional Health: +5
  
• Weapons: Engineers can only use specific tools and some of their own constructions in battle, but gems can also benefit their constructions.
  
• Job Traits: Intuitive: Engineers are highly adept in repairing and understanding many forms of machinery, Flee: (See Rogue), Gadgetry: Engineers can build and use gadgets outside of battle, but are still prone to malfunction.
  
• Battle Style: Constructive: Engineers design various helpful gadgets to assist in combat.
  

1. SHIELD:

Eureka!

– The engineer focuses their mindset. If constructing, the built device lasts for ten rounds. If repairing, the engineer extends a device’s lifespan by ten rounds. If attacking, the engineer strips the target of defense and deals damage equal to three times their weapon power added to their level, along with the

Weakened

and

Fragile

effects. ((WP: 15 x 3) + level 30 = 75 damage)

2. CRITICAL HIT/STURDY CONSTRUCTION/MAJOR REPAIR: The engineer deals damage equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. ((WP: 15 x 2) + level 30 = 60 damage.) Alternately, the engineer may build a device that lasts for the next five rounds, or, if applicable, extend a device’s lifespan by the same.

3. HIT/CONSTRUCTION/REPAIR: The engineer deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. (WP: 15 + level 30 = 45 damage.) Alternately, the engineer may build a device that lasts for the next three rounds, or, if applicable, extend a device’s lifespan by the same.

4. ANALYZE/WEAK CONSTRUCTION/MINOR REPAIR: The engineer inspects their target, pointing out weak points and lowering their level by a quarter. Alternately, the engineer may build a device that lasts for the next round, or, if applicable, extend a device’s lifespan by the same.

5. DAMAGE/BACKFIRE/MALFUNCTION: The engineer is struck by the opponent’s attack. If constructing, the engineer instead takes damage equal to their weapon power. If repairing, the device instead malfunctions, reducing its lifespan by one round.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/SERIOUS BACKFIRE/SEVERE MALFUNCTION: The engineer is struck by the opponent’s special skill. If constructing, the engineer instead takes damage equal to their level. If repairing, the device instead malfunctions, falling apart instantly.

CONSTRUCTIONS

Automaton

• Automatons act separately from the engineer, dealing damage equal to the engineer’s level per round until it falls apart. Only one automaton can be active at a time.
  
• Automatons can be enhanced with the Encouraged Upgrade (Automaton deals double damage), the Hastened Upgrade (Automaton can attack two targets in one round), or an Elemental Upgrade (Automatons deals damage of an element available to the Engineer). Upgrades are bound to the Automaton, and do not fall apart until it does. Only one upgrade can be active at a time.
  

Mechanical Decoy

• Decoys can absorb free hit damage equal to the engineer’s health before being destroyed or before falling apart. Only one decoy can be active at a time.
  
• In addition to lengthening its lifespan, repairing a Decoy also restores health to it equal to the engineer’s weapon power added to their level.
  

Automated Neutralizer

• Automated Neutralizers remove all negative effects from a chosen party member once per round until it falls apart.
  

Ballista

• The Ballista is a temporary weapon that can only be used by the Engineer until it falls apart. It’s a ranged weapon that pierces Defense, and its weapon power is equal to the tool used to assemble it
  
• Ballista can be enhanced with an Elemental Upgrade (The Ballista deals damage of an element available to the Engineer).
  

It's been hard to figure out a way to keep it (relatively) simple and balanced. As fun a class it is, though, I can't imagine it appeals to a ton of people, seeing how hard it is a flavor to get your character into, but nonetheless I'm proud of it. Thoughts?

[LordoftheNoobs]

I love it, I'll definitely try to become one if it becomes official!

[joeshmoe554]

Being an engineer, I love the concept. I think you may need to limit the class a bit more though. Allowing only 1 creation at time, and/or tying the creation of gadgets to a resource like ether (or duck tape ) so the engineer cannot just continually create machinations. Another possibility would be making the physical attacks around the same level as one of the beginner classes so the engineer relies more heavily on using his creations instead of melee combat.

[Flipz]

I think only one of each can be active at a time, and since they fall apart relatively quickly, the Engineer will be constantly working to repair and/or rebuild his creations, which helps for balance.