Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[CMP]

Well, more than one machine can be active at a time, but remember each one only has a set number of rounds it can exist before falling apart - and even while trying to repair it (or build more) there's always the chance of a Backfire or a Malfunction, which I figure balances it out enough. And I'm not sure what you mean by the physical attacks thing.

[JimBee]

Looks pretty interesting, Pie. I disagree with the others about having only one; I would say allow unlimited gadgets, because they all have lifespans and are prone to taking damage as well. And the balancing act would be interesting for strategy: too many in battle would make them somewhat disposable, with the engineer working feverishly to create more and repair the ones already out with the chance of taking damage from Backfire or Malfunction. And too few would make the Engineer rely more heavily on raw damage, which is clearly not the class's strength. A few other questions and suggestion I have are:

- How would the upgrades be added? By construction? And I think once a gem is fused with an automaton or ballista, it shouldn't be available for use on another gadget.

- I assume that all gadgets are destroyed at the end of a normal battle?

- I guess you haven't worked this out yet, but each gadget should have a base lifespan associated with it, right? I think the Mechanical Decoy and and Automated Neutralizer should both have very short lifespans, as they basically make a hero immune to damage and effects, respectively.

- Do all gadgets take damage, including free hits? Which would mean that they all have health associated with them.

- Maybe adding another weapon type, tools, would be too complicated. Why not just have the Engineer construct gadgets without them? Besides, it seems that the Ballista is the only thing that the tool would affect, why not just associate the Ballista's power with that of the Engineer's level?

- Also, the Ballista seems to be a bit useless. Everyone who reaches level 30 will have a decent weapon to use, and some weapons already have SP-piercing abilities. Taking a turn and risking Backfire or Malfunction on the Ballista don't seem worth it. Besides, how long would the Ballista last? Does it also take free hits and damage, or does it act exactly like a weapon?

[CMP]

- How would the upgrades be added? By construction? And I think once a gem is fused with an automaton or ballista, it shouldn't be available for use on another gadget.

Upgrades are constructed as normal, yes. They can still Backfire when being constructed, but they don't have a lifespan, and last as long as the automaton/ballista does. Good point about the gems...I think I'll add that in.

- I assume that all gadgets are destroyed at the end of a normal battle?

Yeah.

- I guess you haven't worked this out yet, but each gadget should have a base lifespan associated with it, right? I think the Mechanical Decoy and and Automated Neutralizer should both have very short lifespans, as they basically make a hero immune to damage and effects, respectively.

No, each lifespan lasts just as long as it's constructed for. The Mechanical Decoy, though, can also break when its total health is run out, so don't think it gets the party out of free hits. (Which is the only thing it gets heroes out of...it's basically a Skeleton Decoy, if that wasn' clear). The Automated Neutralizer...at first, it was removes all negative effects from a random party member, which I thought was useless, but now I'm starting to thing picking and choosing is too much. Maybe it only removes one chosen negative effect from one chosen party member per round instead?

- Do all gadgets take damage, including free hits? Which would mean that they all have health associated with them.

Only the Mechanical Decoy. I didn't want to complicate too much, engineers will just be worrying about them falling apart.

Example (these would show up in the party):

Automaton *Hastened* *Fire Elemental*

Level 30

Rounds Left: 2

Automated Neutralizer

Rounds Left: 4

Mechanical Decoy

Health: 40/40

Rounds Left: 2

(And then this would just be in the Engineer's inventory/equpiment)

(Ballista, WP: 7, wind elemental, pierces SP, 1 round left)

- Maybe adding another weapon type, tools, would be too complicated. Why not just have the Engineer construct gadgets without them? Besides, it seems that the Ballista is the only thing that the tool would affect, why not just associate the Ballista's power with that of the Engineer's level?

Maybe...I did mean to work in WP some more. But the way I see it, they're kind of like a Minstrel's instruments. The WP really doesn't matter that much, because you probably won't be attacking much, you'll be singing (or in this case, constructing). What you're really going for is special effects that help out your construction/repair.

- Also, the Ballista seems to be a bit useless. Everyone who reaches level 30 will have a decent weapon to use, and some weapons already have SP-piercing abilities. Taking a turn and risking Backfire or Malfunction on the Ballista don't seem worth it. Besides, how long would the Ballista last? Does it also take free hits and damage, or does it act exactly like a weapon?

The weapons used are tools, so I assume a ranged weapon that pierced SP to boot would be pretty beneficial, since you couldn't really take any weapons over, unless I decided to change that. It's just a weapon, but you'd still have to make sure it doesn't fall apart.

Edited June 16, 2013 by CallMePie

[Palathadric]

I think the Mechanical Decoy will need to have more health than that.

[Brickdoctor]

Skeleton Decoys only have 20 HP.

[Palathadric]

Bones are more useful than Skeleton Decoys.

[Sandy]

I've finally finished one more expert job class, which will be a reward for a future quest. I want to publish it now for review, like I did with the other job classes as well.

These skilful crafters wield the powers of creation and destruction.

·Additional Health: +15

·Weapons: Artisans use everyday items as weapons, including broomsticks, daggers, hammers and staves.

·Job Traits: Craftsmanship – The artisan can fix or dismantle any item or machine; Fashionista – The artisan can equip any artefact regardless of the suitability or category (the amount is still limited based on level); Shopaholic – The artisan gets a 25% discount (rounded up) from all shops at the Marketplace

·Battle Style:

1. SHIELD:

Toolkit

– The artisan uses a random tool in their possession in a new, innovative way (see

Toolkit

).

2. UPGRADED HIT: The artisan attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power multiplied by the amount of tools in their inventory added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 6 Tools + Level 30 = 120 damage)

3. HIT: The artisan attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 = 45 damage)

4. ENHANCEMENT: The artisan upgrades their weapon to the best of their ability, permanently increasing its WP by 1 unless the WP exceeds their level.

5. DAMAGE/BARGAIN: The artisan is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, the artisan can give up gold equal to the damage they would have taken instead, avoiding the attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The artisan is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Toolkit:

The outcome of the skill is decided by an extra die roll that tells which tool is used. If the artisan does not own the tool decided by the roll, nothing happens. The roll is not affected by lucky or jinxed.

1. Bedroll: Naptime! – The artisan takes a quick rest in their bedroll, recovering full health and removing all negative effects from themself.

2. Shovel: Dig It! – The artisan buries a trap into the ground, dealing 100 elemental damage to the first enemy that steps on it. Each enemy has ½ chance of triggering the trap upon a roll of DAMAGE, SPECIAL DAMAGE or Free Hit. The element of the trap is based on the terrain (as decided by the Quest Master):

Darkness

– night, graveyard, etc.

Earth

– wasteland, cave, etc.

Fire

– lava, desert, etc.

Ice

– snowy, glacier, etc.

Light

– sunny, temple, etc.

Lightning

– stormy, factory, etc.

Water

– beach, underwater, etc.

Wind

– windy, mountaintop, etc.

Wood

– forest, swamp, etc.

3. Pickaxe: Finders Keepers! – The artisan gets a treasure or a gem from the enemy based on its type (if the target has several types, the first type listed defines which valuable is received):

Aquatic monsters

– Aquamarine (Water-elemental gem)

Ancient monsters

– Adamantite Shard (1/4 of an Adamantite Ore)

Beasts

– Silver Ore (Worth 60 gold)

Demons/Dark monsters

– Amethyst (Darkness-elemental gem)

Electric monsters

– Topaz (Lightning-elemental gem)

Ethereal Monsters

– Crystal Ball (Worth 50 gold/100 gold in Magic Shops)

Fiery monsters

– Ruby (Fire-elemental gem)

Flying monsters

– Sapphire (Wind-elemental gem)

Holy monsters

– Diamond (Light-elemental gem)

Humanoids

– Gold Ore (Worth 80 gold)

Icy monsters

– Opal (Ice-elemental gem)

Mechanic monsters

– Mythril Shard (1/4 of a Mythril Ore)

Plants

– Emerald (Wood-elemental gem)

Rock monsters

– Garnet (Earth-elemental gem)

Undead monsters

– Bone (Worth 0 gold/5 gold in Magic Shops)

Vermin

– Gold Bar (Worth 50 gold)

4. Magnifying Glass: Gotcha! – The artisan finds the target’s weak points, rendering it slowed, weakened and fragile for the next 3 rounds unless it is immune to those effects.

5. Telescope: Far Out! – The artisan takes distance to the enemies, receiving no damage from any attack until they land a hit on an enemy again. Healing or using items on allies works normally.

6. Magic Compass: Spirited Away! – The artisan transports the target into another dimension, ousting it from the battle instantly unless it is immune to sudden death. It will drop items and give experience as usual.

It's quite a lot to take in, but I hope you like it! If it sounds over- or underpowered (or downright unplayable) to you guys, let me know.

[Scorpiox]

Woah. That's certainly... strong.

[Endgame]

It sounds too powerful: it pretty much has the capabilities of almost everything (healing itself, elemental damage, procuring extra loot, being able to get a signifigant discount at stores, no artifact limitation, able to create rare artifacts from a single roll) and a very high HP boost. Considering the 25% bonus and simple game inflation, they will obtain all of the tools easily, granting them an extremely powerful x6 critical hit. It essentially has every single advanateg possible. It just seems way too powerful.

It doesn't quite seem cohesive, either: it's bedroll restores Ether, for example (even though it has none), they have the power to teleport people to other dimensions without ether, mine on the fly, has good fashion sense, and plant bombs. It's too much for one job class.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Endgame

[Peppermint_M]

That is a fascinating class, so many beneficial skills. Just the sort of role a player who takes a supporting position.

[Scubacarrot]

It looks very cool, but also very strong. One thing I would definitely change is instead of only taking the items the Artisan has with them into account, make nothing happen if they don't have the item specified by the roll, otherwise an Artisan could carry only a pickaxe or a magic compass and have an oddly strong shield. I really like Bargain, but perhaps you could make it standard, so that you always give up money when damaged, to offset the power of the Shield and the x6 Critical Hit.

[Scorpiox]

It sounds too powerful: it pretty much has the capabilities of almost everything (healing itself, elemental damage, procuring extra loot, being able to get a signifigant discount at stores, no artifact limitation, able to create rare artifacts from a single roll) and a very high HP boost. Considering the 25% bonus and simple game inflation, they will obtain all of the tools easily, granting them an extremely powerful x6 critical hit. It essentially has every single advanateg possible. It just seems way too powerful.

It doesn't quite seem cohesive, either: it's bedroll restores Ether, for example (even though it has none), they have the power to teleport people to other dimensions without ether, mine on the fly, has good fashion sense, and plant bombs. It's too much for one job class.

I'd agree with that. To be honest it's closer to a Master class than anything else. As nice as it is for an idea, something like that could truly break the game.

[CMP]

Interesting. Gonna have to try and get on this Quest, this sounds like a blast to play.

I don't think it's overly strong. All those fantastic and random (unless you want a vastly weakened Critical Hit) effects only take place on a Shield roll. I love love love the jack-of-all-trades feel to it, that's something I value quite a lot in a class.

I really like Bargain, but perhaps you could make it standard, so that you always give up money when damaged, to offset the power of the Shield and the x6 Critical Hit.

That sounds awful, to be honest. Enemies are getting up into the high fifties level-wise, and it's not a Rogue-based class. That'd get extremely expensive.

[Brickdoctor]

It does seem very powerful. I could see someone taking the class, handing all their tools other than a Pickaxe to another player, drinking a Nostrum, and then farming gems. (Not to mention those Adamantite and Mythril shards.) A few Artisans could flood the market with cheap extra gems.

[Endgame]

Interesting. Gonna have to try and get on this Quest, this sounds like a blast to play.

I don't think it's overly strong. All those fantastic and random (unless you want a vastly weakened Critical Hit) effects only take place on a Shield roll. I love love love the jack-of-all-trades feel to it, that's something I value quite a lot in a class.

That sounds awful, to be honest. Enemies are getting up into the high fifties level-wise, and it's not a Rogue-based class. That'd get extremely expensive.

The class just seems to have every advantage with none of the disadvanatges, though. I didn't even realize they could spawn adamatite: those shards are probably worth over 1200 gold a pop.

[CMP]

The class just seems to have every advantage with none of the disadvanatges, though. I didn't even realize they could spawn adamatite: those shards are probably worth over 1200 gold a pop.

With every single real advantage being completely randomly decided, on a Shield roll. Its disadvantages lie in that you make the class yourself. If you're not equipped with good artifacts, you aren't fulfilling any real combat role. The Shards I agree at a bit overkill. Perhaps Mythril instead.

Gotcha! doesn't seem to fit in too much with the other Shields. Maybe it reduces the enemy's level by a certain amount?

[Brickdoctor]

The Shards I agree at a bit overkill. Perhaps Mythril instead.

The class can already spawn Mythril, too, from Mechanic enemies.

[Endgame]

Fashionista and the discount together are a deadly combination with no drawbacks - and those are built in. Even with all of the tools there is a 1/3 chance of getting an excellent item, not to mention the incredibly powerful Critical Hit. There is no real way to go wrong with this class; it has no cons, almost.

[CMP]

The class can already spawn Mythril, too, from Mechanic enemies.

Then that's definitely overkill, yeah.

[Kintobor]

As everyone has said, way too OP. The Upgraded Hit is almost unnecessary since everyone going into the class will be able to easily afford all the items at this rate, and the times six is ridiculously powerful.

Enhancement is essentially waiting to be abused in the Fields. A lucky player could easily reach extremely high WP if the die roll in their favor. Perhaps a temporary enhancement would work better? Enhancement increases a weapons WP by one and stays on until the end of a battle. That seems a little more fair.

Now onto my biggest complaint, the shield: it's insane. I have never been one for adding more dice into a roll, and the class is doing just that.

Bedroll: My complaint is why does it restore ether? Shouldn't restore health?

Shovel: I like the idea, but it seems like a hassle for QMs to decide elemental terrain and enemy types at this point.

Magnifying Glass: I'm actually okay with this one. However, make it do ONE of the three effects instead of all three.

Telescope: Once again, this one's not bad.

Compass: Way too OP. If this is the case, it should drop nothing since it's been teleported away, with all it's loot, or return in three rounds time. It's removing a tough enemy, so the party can deal with weaker ones.

Pickaxe: This is my biggest complaint with the class. The fact that it can pull up gems and admantite shards is almost insane. The complaint I have with this is similar to the discussion we had with rogues. Why have other classes when Artisans can pull gems and admantite and gold out of the ground? Add that with Shopaholic, and we don't have any need for any other class.

As well, why is it called Artisan? It doesn't seem to me like I'd associate these actions and abilities with an Artisan.

Now, despite all that, I love the rest of the job traits and Bargain! Those are really cool, and really creative! Sorry to sound so bleak and oppressing, but as everyone has said, the class is broken, and it needs work.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Kintobor

[Sandy]

It doesn't quite seem cohesive, either: it's bedroll restores Ether, for example (even though it has none), they have the power to teleport people to other dimensions without ether, mine on the fly, has good fashion sense, and plant bombs. It's too much for one job class.

The ether-bit was unintentional. Yes, the artisan's powers are zany, but that's exactly why I love it.

I'll try to tone it down some more, though.

It looks very cool, but also very strong. One thing I would definitely change is instead of only taking the items the Artisan has with them into account, make nothing happen if they don't have the item specified by the roll, otherwise an Artisan could carry only a pickaxe or a magic compass and have an oddly strong shield. I really like Bargain, but perhaps you could make it standard, so that you always give up money when damaged, to offset the power of the Shield and the x6 Critical Hit.

The first one is a great suggestion, and it will fix any attempts to manipulate the Shield-skill.

Bargain would just end up draining the Artisan's gold stock, so I'd rather leave it optional.

[CMP]

Fashionista and the discount together are a deadly combination with no drawbacks - and those are built in. Even with all of the tools there is a 1/3 chance of getting an excellent item, not to mention the incredibly powerful Critical Hit. There is no real way to go wrong with this class; it has no cons, almost.

How is that a deadly combination? The stock artifacts for sale aren't that great. What cons do other classes have? I don't see classes as having pros and cons, more of how well they can fulfill a role in combat. And I think you mean a 1/36 chance.

What is the class so great at that I'm not seeing? Without the Shield it's mediocre in terms of outright power, and with it, it's still entirely unpredictable what happens. What if you're already at full health? What if you're facing an undead, or an enemy immune to effects and instant kill? You're left with damaging a random opponent with an element they're probably immune to due to the environment they're in or gaining a single random gem.

[Sandy]

As everyone has said, way too OP. The Upgraded Hit is almost unnecessary since everyone going into the class will be able to easily afford all the items at this rate, and the times six is ridiculously powerful.

As well, why is it called Artisan? It doesn't seem to me like I'd associate these actions and abilities with an Artisan.

Now, despite all that, I love the rest of the job traits and Bargain! Those are really cool, and really creative! Sorry to sound so bleak and oppressing, but as everyone has said, the class is broken, and it needs work.

It's a good thing then that I put it up for evaluation.

It's called Artisan because it uses tools and creates things. I see no logical fallacy in that...

[Kintobor]

I just imagined Artisan being more... I don't know... typical? With either hammers and brushes to conjure things and heal allies through art. It's just some of the class abilities like Bargain and Shopaholic seem like something I'd expect in a Merchant class. Oh well, that was just my thought on things.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Kintobor

[Endgame]

Since when did Artisans create TARDISes?