Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[UsernameMDM]

Every positive effect is an additional multiplier, though. It's a massive amount of damage. Plus I needed to balance it, otherwise they'd just give every member of the party every positive effect.

What about every temporary positive effect? I am sure that is what you mean anyway.

[Waterbrick Down]

Every positive effect is an additional multiplier, though. It's a massive amount of damage. Plus I needed to balance it, otherwise they'd just give every member of the party every positive effect.

Yes, but it still takes a number of effective rolls to do that as opposed to a Minstrel who can give the entire party an effect (albeit at a cost to ether)

[JimBee]

I don't know about the shield expending all positive effects. It kind of discourages the use of consumables in the first place then.

Agreed. Other than that I think Captain would make a really cool class. I'd prefer the randomness that goes along with the original rolls (2=inspired, 3=hastened, 4=encouraged). It would be much better for keeping things unpredictable, and so that the class can't be abused as a buffing machine.

[CMP]

I'll have to think on how to switch up the Shield, then.

Next class is based around decimating ether-using opponents, which I'm glad to see are starting to become more commonplace. I know it's not terribly unique, so I'm hoping it stands reasonably enough on its own.

INQUISITOR

These sinister executioners will go to any lengths to crush magical and divine opposition.

· Additional Health: +10

· Weapons: Inquisitors make use of various cruel weapons such as longswords, throwing weapons, maces, whips, staves, and halberds.

· Job Traits: Magical Resistance - Inquisitors take half damage from ether-based attacks, Intimidation - (See Black Knight/Berserker), Divine Execution - Inquisitors deal double damage to Holy and Demon-type monsters by default.

· Battle Style: Mundane: Inquisitors are masters of leveling the playing field.

1. SHIELD:

Gift of Mortality:

The inquisitor strips their target of defense and ether permanently, and deals damage equal to five times their weapon power added to the opponent’s defense and ether, then added to their level. (((WP: 15 + 10 ether + 10 defense) x 5) + level 30 = 205 damage.)

2. CRITICAL FINITE HIT: The inquisitor deals damage equal to twice their weapon power added to the target’s current ether, then added to their level. (((WP: 15 + 10 ether) x 2) + level 30 = 90 damage.)

3. FINITE HIT: The inquisitor deals damage equal to their weapon power added to the target’s current ether added to their level. (WP: 15 + 10 ether + level 30 = 55 damage.)

4. INVIGORATE: The inquisitor draws enough health from the target to restore themselves to full health. In additions, the inquisitor transfers any negative effects they have onto the target.

5. DAMAGE: The inquisitor is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL RETRIBUTION: The inquisitor is struck by the opponent’s special skill, but then marks the opponents as favored, dealing triple damage to it whenever damage is dealt. Only one target can be favored at a time.

Edited August 2, 2013 by CallMePie

[JimBee]

Inquisitor seems a bit unfocused. Its Shield skill is contradictory: strips the ether and defense of the enemy then the attack is calculated from ether and defense? Those multipliers would then be 0. Invigorate seems out of place for this class, but I do like the roll itself. I also like Special Retribution.

Personally I think the class would be more powerful and interesting if it were focused on resisting and dealing elemental attacks (half damage or immune to Magic).

[CMP]

It's not contradictory, it uses the ether and defense removed as weapon power, why would it be set up so that it's useless? I admit the Shield is a bit lacking, but I couldn't think of much else beyond crippling an enemy support healer/mage or tank, but under the right circumstances it's a big game-changer.

Perhaps the damage halved by Magical Resistance should include elemental damage, like the actual effect...not sure about dealing elemental attacks. The idea is that the class is built to destroy enemies that rely on magic, which I guess could be extended to elemental damage too. Plus, they still have that multiplier to Demon and Holy types.

Inquisitor admittedly isn't the strongest class, but there's a lot to go.

This next one....has the best chance of being submitted as an actual Expert Class, so I'm particularly interested to hear opinions about it. I had a dual-wielding class idea a long time ago, but Sandy's Tao Warrior class for Jun streamlined the concept, so I've used the rolls from that instead. This class is also made for raw damage, but with a lot more versatility. Again, I'm not entirely satisfied with the Shield here. Any thoughts on it?

MARAUDER

These swift strikers deal several rapid, precise blows at once to keep enemies at bay.

· Additional Health: +10

· Weapons: Marauders use a pair of light, one-handed weapons, such as daggers, longswords, maces, and whips. It must be specified which weapon is primary and which is secondary.

· Job Traits: Flee: (See Rogue), Natural Respite: (See Barbarian), Fighting Edge: The marauder can deal a Free Hit with each weapon equal to each individual weapon power to two different opponents in the first round of battle in addition to their chosen action.

· Battle Style: Dexterous – Marauders can target up to two enemies at once to swiftly eliminate.

1. SHIELD:

Skewer:

The marauder impales both targets with both weapons at once, dealing damage equal to twice their weapon power added to their level with both weapons to both opponents. In addition, any negative effects either opponent has is shared with the other. (((WP: 15 (Primary Weapon) x 2) + level 30) + ((WP: 10 (Secondary Weapon) x 2) + level 30) = 110 damage to each opponent.)

2. CRITICAL DUAL HIT: The marauder attacks two targets with strength equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. The first target will receive damage from the primary weapon, and the second target from the secondary. The marauder can choose to attack one target twice. ((WP: 15 (Primary Weapon) x 2) + level 30 = 60 damage to first target; (WP: 10 (Secondary Weapon) x 2) + level 30 = 50 damage to second target, or 110 damage to single target.)

3. DUAL HIT: The marauder attacks two targets with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. The first target will receive damage from the primary weapon, and the second target from the secondary. The marauder can choose to attack one target twice. (WP: 15 (Primary Weapon) + level 30 = 45 damage to first target; WP: 10 (Secondary Weapon) + level 30 = 40 damage to second target, or 85 damage to single target.)

4. RIPOSTE: The marauder deflects the first target’s attack, causing damage equal to its level to the second target.

5. DUAL DAMAGE: The marauder is struck by both opponent’s attacks. If there is only one opponent, it will attack twice. Both attacks stack before row and SP is taken into account.

6. DUAL SPECIAL DAMAGE: The marauder is struck by both opponent’s special skills. If there is only one opponent, it will use its special skill twice, if applicable.

Edited August 3, 2013 by CallMePie

[Sandy]

MARAUDER

These swift strikers deal several rapid, precise blows at once to keep enemies at bay.

Wow, this one is a great upgrade from the Tao Warrior, and yes, it actually would make a pretty decent Expert Job Class - if only you'll find a faction or some other way to incorporate it to the game.

A few notes, though:

- Would the Marauder be able to use "Dual Strike" weapons, essentially giving them four hits per turn?

- The job trait "Fighting Edge" seems a little excessive, considering that the class can already deal damage in four out of six rolls. Having an actual attack be one of the Job Traits is a little questionable, too. Maybe you could come up with something else that the class would be able to do, besides dishing out damage?

[CMP]

A few notes, though:

- Would the Marauder be able to use "Dual Strike" weapons, essentially giving them four hits per turn?

- The job trait "Fighting Edge" seems a little excessive, considering that the class can already deal damage in four out of six rolls. Having an actual attack be one of the Job Traits is a little questionable, too. Maybe you could come up with something else that the class would be able to do, besides dishing out damage?

-No, I'll probably make note of that somewhere.

-I got the idea from Wild Mind of the Regulator class, and mostly because I couldn't think of much else for another job trait. I considered something similar to Craftsmanship, like being able to examine weapons and their make thoroughly, but I can't imagine how much use that would get.

[Flare]

Marauder is a really awesome class. I'd like to suggest that one Dual strike weapon should be able to replace having to use two regular weapons

[Scubacarrot]

I really like it and it is something I would try my hand at playing. How about as a third job trait: Weapon Maintenance: Since the Marauder keeps their weapons in peak condition, upgrading two weapons at a time will result in a 50% discount of the upgrade of the weakest of the two weapons. You can probably word that a lot better. I'm tired.

[CMP]

I really like it and it is something I would try my hand at playing. How about as a third job trait: Weapon Maintenance: Since the Marauder keeps their weapons in peak condition, upgrading two weapons at a time will result in a 50% discount of the upgrade of the weakest of the two weapons. You can probably word that a lot better. I'm tired.

Interesting idea...fits with the class and would definitely be useful, although that's pretty low. Artisan gets a 25% discount on everything. Maybe a 50% discount on both upgrades when upgrading both weapons at once?

[Scubacarrot]

Artisan is overpowered as all hell. So I'm not comparing things to it. (Pro tip: Make the artisan get a 25% discount in Fabian's and Gnomeo's shops, nowhere else, and it'll keep with the Fashionista theme) I'd advise against that, as it straight up makes upgrading a weapon cheaper if you have a lower WP weapon. That's why I did it that way. But maybe a free weapon upgrade for a lower WP weapon can get thrown in, that'd make more sense?

[Zepher]

I like all the Job Classes (CMP's 3 plus WBD's 1) and actually was toying with a duel class class as well when Sandy made his, so glad to see there was another attempt at it. I hope not all these classes make it into the game (as a QM) but they're all interesting for sure! Scuba's suggestion is a very good one (and smart for reasons he just explained). I am also toying with a class idea, that might be part of my final quest, but I'm not sure I want to throw another one into the mix. Maybe I'll publish it and see if there'd be interest.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Zepher

[CMP]

This one's reworked from one of the basic Expert Classes discussed before. I'm hoping Arc Spells won't come across as overpowered due to the major ether cost.

ARCHMAGE

These amazing mystics channel vast reserves of ether to devastating effect.

· Additional Health: +3

· Additional Ether: +8

· Weapons: Archmage use daggers, staves, wands, broomsticks, scrolls, and gems.

· Job Traits: Spellcasting (See Mage), Mystic Respite - The archmage gains 5 ether at the end of every battle, Glossolalia (See Prophet)

· Battle Style: Magnificent - The archmage has become highly attuned to the power of ether, and can create storms of elemental energy.

1. SHIELD:

Chain Spell

- The archmage unleashes a powerful spell that rebounds through 3-18 targets, dealing elemental damage to each one equal to their weapon power added to their level. If the target roll is higher than the number of opponents, each opponent can receive multiple strikes. If no element was selected, a random one available to the archmage will be chosen. The archmage draws power from the targets, regaining one ether for every two opponents affected, rounded down.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/GREAT ARC SPELL - The archmage deals damage to the opponent equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, the archmage casts an elemental spell with the same strength at the cost of 1 ether. This spell can be made to affect all opponents at the cost of 4 additional ether.

3. HIT/SPELL/ARC SPELL - The archmage deals damage to the opponent equal to their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, the archmage casts an elemental spell with the same strength at the cost of 1 ether. This spell can be made to affect all opponents at the cost of 4 additional ether.

4. QUINTESSENCE - The archmage manipulates the very being of the target, giving them the option to switch out one of the target's current types for another at the cost of 10 ether.

5. DAMAGE - The archmage is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL MIRROR - The archmage is struck by the opponent's special skill, but reflects it right back to cause the same effect.

[Waterbrick Down]

This one's reworked from one of the basic Expert Classes discussed before. I'm hoping Arc Spells won't come across as overpowered due to the major ether cost.

ARCHMAGE

These amazing mystics channel vast reserves of ether to devastating effect.

· Additional Health: +3

· Additional Ether: +8

· Weapons: Archmage use daggers, staves, wands, broomsticks, scrolls, and gems.

· Job Traits: Spellcasting (See Mage), Mystic Respite - The archmage gains 5 ether at the end of every battle, Glossolalia (See Prophet)

· Battle Style: Magnificent - The archmage has become highly attuned to the power of ether, and can create storms of elemental energy.

1. SHIELD:

Chain Spell

- The archmage unleashes a powerful spell that rebounds through 3-18 targets, dealing elemental damage to each one equal to their weapon power added to their level. If the target roll is higher than the number of opponents, each opponent can receive multiple strikes. If no element was selected, a random one available to the archmage will be chosen. The archmage draws power from the targets, regaining one ether for every two opponents affected, rounded down.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/GREAT ARC SPELL - The archmage deals damage to the opponent equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, the archmage casts an elemental spell with the same strength at the cost of 1 ether. This spell can be made to affect all opponents at the cost of 4 additional ether.

3. HIT/SPELL/ARC SPELL - The archmage deals damage to the opponent equal to their weapon power added to their level. Optionally, the archmage casts an elemental spell with the same strength at the cost of 1 ether. This spell can be made to affect all opponents at the cost of 4 additional ether.

4. QUINTESSENCE - The archmage manipulates the very being of the target, giving them the option to switch out one of the target's current types for another at the cost of 10 ether.

5. DAMAGE - The archmage is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL MIRROR - The archmage is struck by the opponent's special skill, but reflects it right back to cause the same effect.

I somewhat like the idea, however it's basically a reworking of the Cannoneer, i.e. does elemental damage against all enemies at the cost of 10 Gold, as compared to an archmage that's stocked up on Grand Tonics, does elemental damage against all enemies at the cost of 10 Gold. Also, considering that an Archmage's elemental options are a bit more limitless only being held-back by ether as opposed to Cannoneers who have a limited supply of only certain types of bombs, they kind of outstrip Cannoneers in the long run. The special is cool and miss rolls are neat but at the moment, I think the party role is already filled.

[CMP]

I somewhat like the idea, however it's basically a reworking of the Cannoneer, i.e. does elemental damage against all enemies at the cost of 10 Gold, as compared to an archmage that's stocked up on Grand Tonics, does elemental damage against all enemies at the cost of 10 Gold. Also, considering that an Archmage's elemental options are a bit more limitless only being held-back by ether as opposed to Cannoneers who have a limited supply of only certain types of bombs, they kind of outstrip Cannoneers in the long run. The special is cool and miss rolls are neat but at the moment, I think the party role is already filled.

Perhaps, but there's room for more than one of each role. AoE damage is very useful. Plus, there's a lack of magic-based classes. I was mostly trying to build a more outright offensive magic role, since Necromancer is currently the only conventional Mage class in the Expert Classes at the moment, and I figured that with spells, you can only go so far as to make them unique. AoE is probably the best enhancement you can get to spells.

You have a point, though, it's pretty superior to Cannoneer right now...perhaps I'll remove physical attacks, so that the Archmage'll have to really think about the cost of ether in the long run. Cannoneers at least can attack normally when out of bombs.

[CMP]

There is an insane lack of healers in the Expert Classes.

PRIEST

These pious healers rely on their gods to ignore the limits of humanity in keeping their allies alive.

· Additional Health: +5

· Additional Ether: +5

· Weapons: Priests make use of simple weapons such as daggers, staves, wands, hammers, and broomsticks. They may also use scrolls.

· Job Traits: Healing – (See Cleric), Clairvoyance – (See Prophet), Purity - A priest’s healing causes double damage to undead.

· Battle Style: Devout: Priests follow their path faithfully, letting no mortal boundary stop them from healing.

1. SHIELD:

Prophecy:

The priest is given a vision of the future. All rolls during the duration of the next round are reduced by two.

2. CRITICAL HIT/HEAL MORE/OVERHEAL MORE: The priest deals damage equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, they may restore the same amount of health to themselves or one of their allies at the cost of one ether. At the cost of two additional ether, they can ignore the target’s maximum health while healing. (WP: 15 x 2 + level 30 = 60 damage, or 60 health restored)

3. HIT/HEAL/OVERHEAL: The priest deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, they may restore the same amount of health to themselves or one of their allies at the cost of one ether. At the cost of two additional ether, they can ignore the target’s maximum health while healing. (WP: 15 + level 30 = 45 damage, or 45 health restored)

4. MEDITATE/HEAL LESS/OVERHEAL LESS: The priest concentrates to recover one ether. Alternatively, they may restore health equal to their level to themselves or one of their allies at the cost of one ether. At the cost of two additional ether, they can ignore the target’s maximum health while healing.

5. DAMAGE: The priest e is struck by the enemy’s attack.

6. SPECIAL MIRROR: The priest is struck by the opponent’s special skill, but causes the same effect to the opponent right back.

Edited August 5, 2013 by CallMePie

[Palathadric]

Wow! This is perfect for Pretzel. You don't know how much I want to play this class, but I think it's overpowered. By the way: 5 is regular damage and 6 is special mirror, right?

Edited August 5, 2013 by Palathadric

[CMP]

Wow! This is perfect for Pretzel. You don't know how much I want to play this class, but I think it's overpowered. By the way: 5 is regular damage and 6 is special mirror, right?

What in particular makes it overpowered?

And I have no idea how that happened.

[Palathadric]

Well, I don't know if they should be able to use all those weapons, perhaps I don't understand the overheal properly also, and the 1st roll... a lucky priest would be devastating. They also have special mirror, which is awesome.

[CMP]

Well, I don't know if they should be able to use all those weapons, perhaps I don't understand the overheal properly also, and the 1st roll... a lucky priest would be devastating. They also have special mirror, which is awesome.

Only reason the weapon choice is so good is that they're almost exclusively healers, so their weapons, being used rarely, can at least be of a wide variety. Overheal's simple enough. By spending 3 ether rather than just 1, you restore the amount of health equal to your matter to your ally as normal...but disregarding maximum health. Might increase the ether cost of it a little if others think it's too powerful. As for the Shield....maybe, yeah. Originally it was just Guardian Angel but the roll reduction was only one. Do you think that's more reasonable?

And yeah, I use Special Mirror in my classes as often as I can when it's not too out of place or overpowered.

[Palathadric]

Sorry, I still don't follow the overheal. If an ally has 20 health remaining out of thirty, and I heal him for thirty health, he gets 50?

[CMP]

Sorry, I still don't follow the overheal. If an ally has 20 health remaining out of thirty, and I heal him for thirty health, he gets 50?

Pretty much.

[Palathadric]

Awesome. Well, if others don't think it's overpowered, then I'm in full support. Can't wait to see what Sandy thinks of it.

[swils]

Should probably put a restriction on ignoring the health cap. Something along the lines of "if the target is already above their maximum health, they can not be healed" It's got such a great kit already, I don't think Special Mirror is required. I know you're a fan of it, but the class can already give a party-wide mini-Lucky effect as well as overheal. Something's gotta give!