Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[joeshmoe554]

I know you're a fan of it, but the class can already give a party-wide mini-Lucky effect as well as overheal.

I'm not sure I would call that a mini-Lucky effect since it makes the party immune to damage and special damage rolls while tripling the odds of a shield roll.

I like the idea of overheal, since a level 30 player will often have a higher healing potential than a player's maximum hit points. I think using a variant on roots of life, perhaps with a blessed status effect since this is a priest, would work rather well given the power of that ability and the power added to the class from overheal.

Edited August 6, 2013 by joeshmoe554

[JimBee]

It's not contradictory, it uses the ether and defense removed as weapon power, why would it be set up so that it's useless? I admit the Shield is a bit lacking, but I couldn't think of much else beyond crippling an enemy support healer/mage or tank, but under the right circumstances it's a big game-changer.

I guess I'm misunderstanding the roll then, I suppose you mean damage equal to maximum ether and defense rather than the base ether/defense. I still think it would need a lot of work in order to become official (I'm aware that these are mostly just ideas, as well).

MARAUDER

On the other hand, I'm really liking this one. As the one who controlled Jun in Quest 50, I can say that this would be a major improvement to the Tao Warrior (no offense Sandy). I definitely think Riposte is more appropriate than Yin & Yang; it seemed like Jun was always losing health unnecessarily with rolls of "4", and when that roll did heal him it wasn't very useful. Dual Damage and Special Damage are fine though, to balance the class out. I did like the original Shield skill, however: it was the biggest asset of Tao Warrior because if successful we could take down a tough enemy really fast. I think the Shield-skill you assigned is a bit underwhelming, but other than that I'd say it's a really good class.

I also really like Archmage and Priest, as well as the idea of Basic-Expert classes discussed a while ago. Archmage seems nearly perfect to me, except that the Shield-skill seems a little boring. In a battle with more than 18 enemies (not so unlikely these days) it would actually be weaker than Magic Burst. I'd suggest adding some sort of effect, or maybe have it restore ether.

Priest seems really good to, though a few suggestions:

- Change the name to High Priest

- Limit the weapons to what a Cleric can use (assuming this is the Basic-Expert variant of Cleric)

Otherwise, I really like Overheal (though perhaps it should cost more ether). Oh, and I have to agree about these:

I don't think Special Mirror is required. I know you're a fan of it, but the class can already give a party-wide mini-Lucky effect as well as overheal. Something's gotta give!

I'm not sure I would call that a mini-Lucky effect since it makes the party immune to damage and special damage rolls while tripling the odds of a shield roll.

The Shield skill seems way too powerful, surpassing the Lucky-effect entirely. I'd suggest something like an AoE Overheal instead. I also agree about not needing Special Mirror, Special Guard would be more balanced IMO.

[CMP]

Should probably put a restriction on ignoring the health cap. Something along the lines of "if the target is already above their maximum health, they can not be healed" It's got such a great kit already, I don't think Special Mirror is required. I know you're a fan of it, but the class can already give a party-wide mini-Lucky effect as well as overheal. Something's gotta give!

I considered adding something like that to Overheal, but assumed it'd be pretty unlikely that a Priest would want (and have enough ether to) stack a ton of health on just one hero. How about the ether cost is changed to 'for every ten health the hero has above their maximum health, the Overheal costs an additional ether'? So if 30 health is overhealed, it's cost 4 ether (1 for every ten health plus the base of 1), if an additional 30 health is added and the hero has taken no damage since last overheal, it'd be 7, etc...thoughts?

I'm not sure I would call that a mini-Lucky effect since it makes the party immune to damage and special damage rolls while tripling the odds of a shield roll.

I like the idea of overheal, since a level 30 player will often have a higher healing potential than a player's maximum hit points. I think using a variant on roots of life, perhaps with a blessed status effect since this is a priest, would work rather well given the power of that ability and the power added to the class from overheal.

I'll probably change the Shield, then. Perhaps they restore the entire party to full health, revive all downed heroes, give everyone the Blessed effect, then the rolls are reduced by one for next round?

On the other hand, I'm really liking this one. As the one who controlled Jun in Quest 50, I can say that this would be a major improvement to the Tao Warrior (no offense Sandy). I definitely think Riposte is more appropriate than Yin & Yang; it seemed like Jun was always losing health unnecessarily with rolls of "4", and when that roll did heal him it wasn't very useful. Dual Damage and Special Damage are fine though, to balance the class out. I did like the original Shield skill, however: it was the biggest asset of Tao Warrior because if successful we could take down a tough enemy really fast. I think the Shield-skill you assigned is a bit underwhelming, but other than that I'd say it's a really good class.

I also really like Archmage and Priest, as well as the idea of Basic-Expert classes discussed a while ago. Archmage seems nearly perfect to me, except that the Shield-skill seems a little boring. In a battle with more than 18 enemies (not so unlikely these days) it would actually be weaker than Magic Burst. I'd suggest adding some sort of effect, or maybe have it restore ether.

Priest seems really good to, though a few suggestions:

- Change the name to High Priest

- Limit the weapons to what a Cleric can use (assuming this is the Basic-Expert variant of Cleric)

Otherwise, I really like Overheal (though perhaps it should cost more ether). Oh, and I have to agree about these:

The Shield skill seems way too powerful, surpassing the Lucky-effect entirely. I'd suggest something like an AoE Overheal instead. I also agree about not needing Special Mirror, Special Guard would be more balanced IMO.

Like I said, I'm not entirely satisfied with Marauder's Shield. Maybe

Blade Dance - The hero attacks all enemies with power equal to the weapon power of their primary weapon plus their level, then does the same with power equal to the weapon power of their secondary weapon plus their level. All enemies gain the Confused effect.

It's more of an AoE damage class with the dual swords and everything.

Archmage's Shield does restore ether. Every two enemies hit restored one ether.

No, these aren't the Basic Class upgrades, they're just standalone Expert Classes now.

I mentioned the Shield's upgrade above, is it reasonable?

This class is fairly straightforward. I got the idea from Beast Warrior's Bite roll. They don't feel any particular role other than damage, but the draw is that they're pretty much entirely self-sustaining.

VAMPIRE

These cunning bloodsuckers sustain themselves by feeding on opponents.

· Additional Health: +10

· Weapons: Vampires wield vicious weapons like daggers, longswords, greatswords, axes, scythes, whips, and broomsticks.

· Job Traits: Intimidation: (See Black Knight/Berserker), Bloodsucker - Vampires thrive on blood, and can restore full health outside of battle by feeding on others. Blood for Blood – Vampires may choose to expend 10 health to remove a negative effect from themselves both inside and out of battle.

· Battle Style: Insatiable: Vampires feed on the blood of their enemies.

1. SHIELD:

Sucked Dry

– The vampire feeds on the target, dealing damage equal to one quarter of the enemy’s health, ignoring defenses, and restoring the same amount of health to themselves. Health absorbed can exceed maximum health. The vampire cannot feed again until their health is below the maximum value.

2. EXTRA CRITICAL HIT/STARVED FEEDING: The vampire deals damage equal to three times their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the vampire may choose to feed, dealing damage equal to twice their level, ignoring defenses, and restoring the same amount of health to themselves.

3. HIT/FEED: The vampire deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the vampire may choose to feed, dealing damage equal to their level, ignoring defenses, and restoring the same amount of health to themselves.

4. VAMPIRE’S CURSE/LESSER FEED: The vampire is struck by the opponent’s attack, but in return, the vampire inflicts the opponent with the cursed- and jinxed- effects. Alternatively, the vampire may choose to feed, dealing damage equal to half their level, ignoring defenses, and restoring the same amount of health to themselves.

5. DAMAGE: The vampire is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The vampire is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Edited August 6, 2013 by CallMePie

[PsyKater]

At first I thought it is weird, but after reading it, it has really something appealing.

Dreyrugr?

[Sandy]

Your job class ideas are great fun, CMP, and they have many useful ideas that could very well be incorporated into a job class (even if they weren't accepted as they currently are), but I'm even more amazed that you actually plan to post 31 concepts. There's already 37 different job classes in play, so do you really have almost the same amount of original ideas?

I'm definitely looking forward to what you've got in store.

On the other hand, I'm really liking this one. As the one who controlled Jun in Quest 50, I can say that this would be a major improvement to the Tao Warrior (no offense Sandy). I definitely think Riposte is more appropriate than Yin & Yang; it seemed like Jun was always losing health unnecessarily with rolls of "4", and when that roll did heal him it wasn't very useful.

Not to sound defensive, Jun's class was designed to be like a "double-edged sword". It had powerful attacks, but it made Jun very vulnerable at the same time. Eventually you saw it best just not to use him for most of the time, because of that.

[Flipz]

Not to sound defensive, Jun's class was designed to be like a "double-edged sword". It had powerful attacks, but it made Jun very vulnerable at the same time. Eventually you saw it best just not to use him for most of the time, because of that.

Actually, it's my opinion that they saw best not to use him because he was a "babysitter NPC" and because of that roll; I think if Jun wasn't a "major" character the party needed to protect, they would have been less cautious with him.

I really need to get my Theater post on NPCs done, but first I have to finish the pair of Expert Class concepts I'm working on.

[PsyKater]

What's with your quest

[Vash the Stampede]

At first I thought it is weird, but after reading it, it has really something appealing.Dreyrugr?

I'd roll with it. The only thing I'd say is that it seems to have an underwhelming shield but I like Blood for Battle. Unless I'm misreading and its just the feed you can't use after the shield but several shield's can stack. Only question would be does the shield take a quarter of the maximum or current health. Edited August 6, 2013 by Vash the Stampede

[CMP]

Your job class ideas are great fun, CMP, and they have many useful ideas that could very well be incorporated into a job class (even if they weren't accepted as they currently are), but I'm even more amazed that you actually plan to post 31 concepts. There's already 37 different job classes in play, so do you really have almost the same amount of original ideas?

A few are retooled from some of my older ideas. But yeah.

I'd roll with it. The only thing I'd say is that it seems to have an underwhelming shield but I like Blood for Battle. Unless I'm misreading and its just the feed you can't use after the shield but several shield's can stack. Only question would be does the shield take a quarter of the maximum or current health.

If you're facing an enemy with around 1000 health, not uncommon at level 30, that's a hell of a lot of health, I just didn't want a Vampire to have a near-unlimited amount of health as a result.

This class is not unlike the Warden, but has more offensive capabilities.

SIEGE ENGINEER

These powerful tacticians can wage battle for as long as they need to keep their allies unharmed.

· Additional Health: +11

· Weapons: Siege Engineers wield huge, devastating weapons such as crossbows, handcannons, halberds, lances, hammers, and shields.

· Job Traits: Command (See Paragon), Natural Respite (See Barbarian), Intuitive – Siege Engineers are highly adept in repairing and understanding many forms of machinery

· Battle Style: Relentless: Siege Engineers keep themselves and their party fighting for as long as they can.

1. SHIELD:

Hold the Line:

For the duration of the next round, the party bands together in the front row. All damage taken will be divided equally among them. When damage is taken, each hero will deal damage equal to their level to the opponent who damaged them.

2. CRITICAL ARMORED HIT: The siege engineer deals damage equal to twice their weapon power added to their shield power added to their level.

3. ARMORED HIT: The siege engineer deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their shield power added to their level.

4. DEFEND: The siege engineer steps out in front of the party, decreasing their damage taken next round equal to their shield power.

5. DEFENDED DAMAGE: The siege engineer is struck by the opponent’s attack. The effect of the attack is decreased by the siege engineer’s shield power.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The siege engineer is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I think the Siege Engineer's Shield doesn't really fit. I don't think engineers "hold the line" and it doesn't make a lot of sense for engineers to be defending. (It sounds more like something BD's Skirmisher would do.)

Along with 4/Defend- That's something a knight would do, not someone who wields ranged weapons and handcannons. (And you said they were tacticians.)

Maybe on all attacks they could defy SP, that would be in line with what their role is.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Capt.JohnPaul

[CMP]

I think the Siege Engineer's Shield doesn't really fit. I don't think engineers "hold the line" and it doesn't make a lot of sense for engineers to be defending. (It sounds more like something BD's Skirmisher would do.)

Along with 4/Defend- That's something a knight would do, not someone who wields ranged weapons and handcannons. (And you said they were tacticians.)

Maybe on all attacks they could defy SP, that would be in line with what their role is.

Engineer isn't the right word, but it's the one that fits best. I'd call it General or something, except the flavor of the class is that they're meant to outlast more or less any enemy.

[Scubacarrot]

I like Vampire, the idea of making a class of it. If you work it out further/complete it, I might have a really good way to implement it, if that's something you need/want.

I like the Siege Engineer, but except for their job trait, which is really situational by the way, they don't have anything "engineery". I'd also keep Command as something special for Paragon. I'd call them Juggernauts, Defenders, perhaps play with the RPG trope and call them Tanks. An idea for alternative job trait is one that allows the class to use their uncommon vitality and endurance for other tasks, for example, allows them to walk through crashing waterfalls, walk upstream in a raging river, that sort of thing.

[CMP]

I like Vampire, the idea of making a class of it. If you work it out further/complete it, I might have a really good way to implement it, if that's something you need/want.

I like the Siege Engineer, but except for their job trait, which is really situational by the way, they don't have anything "engineery". I'd also keep Command as something special for Paragon. I'd call them Juggernauts, Defenders, perhaps play with the RPG trope and call them Tanks. An idea for alternative job trait is one that allows the class to use their uncommon vitality and endurance for other tasks, for example, allows them to walk through crashing waterfalls, walk upstream in a raging river, that sort of thing.

You can use the idea if you want, it's pretty low on the list of classes I'd actually like to get the opportunity to give out, to be honest.

Maybe I'll just call it Tank. And I like that job trait idea a lot better.

[Vash the Stampede]

If you're facing an enemy with around 1000 health, not uncommon at level 30, that's a hell of a lot of health, I just didn't want a Vampire to have a near-unlimited amount of health as a result.

So that's a no? I'd understand the balancing issues but then I'd say the vampire shield needs to have something more if only the fact how bosses (in a non endgame quest) are the last thing you face and other enemies have significantly lower health where any other hit would probably do more damage. If an enemy has 240 health than the shield does the same as a starved feed, less health than that and the shield does less damage than a starved feed and not to mention how an extra critical hit with a weapon higher than 10 (also not uncommon at level 30) would deal even more damage. Maybe I'm pushing this issue because I already have a vampire character but for an expert job class I think something else needs to happen in the shield (agreed though that a stackable shield on a boss would make one near invincible)

[Palathadric]

By the time you're an expert class there may be relatively few enemies around with that low health. 1000 may be pretty average, unfortunately.

[Brickdoctor]

• Weapons: ...crossbows...shields.

...

3. ARMORED HIT: ...added to their shield power...

[Vash the Stampede]

By the time you're an expert class there may be relatively few enemies around with that low health. 1000 may be pretty average, unfortunately.

I guess if it ever sees the light of day it will get a Nerf if needed. I'm hoping it does get there, but wait vampires. Maybe it shouldn't see the light of day.

[CMP]

You may recognize this one. I added the ability to Leech health from thralls, inspired by one of Jeb's classes. So now while it has a healing capability, the mystic must first have a thrall to transfer health from. Thoughts?

MYSTIC

These mysterious wizards manipulate and bewitch their way to victory using their opponents themselves.

· Additional Ether: +10

· Weapons: Mystics make use of mystic weapons like staves, wands, scythes, whips, and hammers, in addition to scrolls and gems.

· Job Traits: Spellcasting: (See Mage), Bewitch: Mystics can spend ether to charm people even outside of battle, Mystic Respite: Mystics automatically regain ether equal to one quarter of their level after battles, rounded up.

· Battle Style: Beguiling: Mystics channel ether to mesmerize their opponents, but cannot attack physically.

1. SHIELD:

Atonement:

The mystic sacrifices any and all thralls they currently have under their control, causing damage equal to their combined health divided evenly among the enemy party, with no remainder. If the mystic has no thralls, they turn the target into their thrall for the next five rounds. This does not deplete ether. If any thralls are immune to sudden death, they are immune to being sacrificed as well.

2. GREATER SPELL/GREATER ENTHRALL/GREATER LEECH: The mystic spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the mystic can spend 5 ether to turn the target into their thrall for the next five rounds. The mystic may also choose to transfer health equal to the strength of their greater spell from one of their thralls to themselves or an ally at the cost of 1 ether.

3. SPELL/ENTHRALL/LEECH: The mystic spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the mystic can spend 3 ether to turn the target into their thrall for the next three rounds. The mystic may also choose to transfer health equal to the strength of theirspell from one of their thralls to themselves or an ally at the cost of 1 ether.

4. MEDITATE/LESSER ENTHRALL/LESSER LEECH: The mystic focuses to regain 1 ether. Alternatively, the mystic can spend 1 ether to turn the target into their thrall for the next round. The mystic may also choose to transfer health equal to their level from one of their thralls to themselves or an ally at the cost of 1 ether.

5. SHARED DAMAGE/NO LEECH: The mystic is struck by the opponent’s attack, but the damage is divided equally among them and their thralls. Any attempt of leeching health fails.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/NO LEECH: The mystic is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Any attempt of leeching health fails.

THRALLS

· When an opponent is enthralled, all rolls of Damage, Special Damage, and Free Hits for it are negated for the rest of round. For the next round and the duration of enthrallment, the thrall is considered a member of the party, and the Mystic has control over it. Thralls can only be made to do nothing or attack an opponent.

1. SPECIAL SKILL: The thrall’s special skill is activated, directed at the target/enemy’s party, with the thrall and/or the mystic’s party receiving any benefits attached.

2. CRITICAL STRIKE: The thrall deals damage equal to twice their level.

3. STRIKE: The thrall deals damage equal to their level.

4. MISS: The thrall misses their attack.

5. DAMAGE: The thrall is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: the thrall is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

[Waterbrick Down]

So to clarify, enthrallment isn't the same as hexed correct?

[CMP]

So to clarify, enthrallment isn't the same as hexed correct?

Right. Mystic has total control over the thrall for a longer duration.

[Waterbrick Down]

Seems a bit overpowered? All it takes is for a Mystic to enthrall a really powerful creature and then sit back and do nothing until it loses control. Perhaps there should be a chance for the thrall to break the spell at the end of each round? After Sudden Death/Doomed and Petrify, Hexed (which is a very similar mechanic) is one of the most dangerous effects to an enemy.

[CMP]

Seems a bit overpowered? All it takes is for a Mystic to enthrall a really powerful creature and then sit back and do nothing until it loses control. Perhaps there should be a chance for the thrall to break the spell at the end of each round? After Sudden Death/Doomed and Petrify, Hexed (which is a very similar mechanic) is one of the most dangerous effects to an enemy.

QMs will probably start having bosses and such immune to enthrall. They'll just have to use it in moderation, like immune to sudden death is now.

[Flipz]

Why not make the Damage roll of the thrall reduce enthrallment time by 1 Round, and Special Damage snap the enthrallment entirely, a la Revert for the Beast Warrior?

[CMP]

Why not make the Damage roll of the thrall reduce enthrallment time by 1 Round, and Special Damage snap the enthrallment entirely, a la Revert for the Beast Warrior?

That sounds a little more reasonable.

[CMP]

Sort of a...spin-off of Paladin. Less healing, more bashing. Does anyone think Celestial Balance should stack, or should I just use a powerful attack if it's already been used (like War Cry)?

TEMPLAR

These holy crusaders utilize their faith to deal stronger blows and keep allies free of debilitating effects.

· Additional Health: +12

· Additional Ether: +3

· Weapons: Templars wield knightly, noble weapons such as clubs, greatswords, halberds, hammers, staves, and maces.

· Job Traits: Diplomacy (See Knight), Dispel – Templars can remove negative effects outside of battle at the cost of 1 ether, Restoration (See Paragon)

· Battle Style: Sustaining: Templars use divine power to keep the party on their feet and give their strikes devastating power.

1. SHIELD:

Celestial Balance:

The templar’s faith restores all heroes to full health. The health restored is then divided by the number of heroes, rounded down, and added to the templar’s weapon power for the duration of the battle.

2. EMPOWERED CRITICAL HIT/CLEANSING: The templar deals damage equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. They may choose to sacrifice ether to add to their weapon power. Optionally, they may choose to remove all negative effects from themselves or an ally at the cost of 1 ether per negative effect. The dispelled hero receives the Blessed effect for the duration of the battle.

3. EMPOWERED HIT/DISPEL: The templar deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. They may choose to sacrifice ether to add to their weapon power. Optionally, they may choose to remove all negative effects from themselves or an ally at the cost of 1 ether per negative effect.

4. DIVINE WILL/MINOR DISPEL: The templar may choose to spend ether to create a defensive aura around the entire party for the duration of the next round. The amount of ether spent is equal to the defense the templar will provide to the party times half the number of heroes, rounded up. Optionally, the templar may remove one negative effect from themselves or an ally at the cost of 1 ether.

5. DAMAGE: The templar is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL GUARD: The templar has a 50/50 chance of being protected from any negative effects caused by the opponent’s special skill.

Edited August 9, 2013 by CallMePie