Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Sandy]

And here's a new take on Minstrel's Battle Songs. Not much needed changing after all, just the fact that the Minstrel is always included in the turn order and is thus susceptible to Free Hits and AoE-damage. Does everything look okay now?

Battle Songs:

Instead of fighting, a minstrel can choose one song to sing for a varying cost of ether. The Minstrel must be listed in the order of action, and is susceptible to Free Hits and area-of-effect damage. Each song lasts at most until the end of the round, or if the Minstrel is hastened, until their second turn. Sealed-effect prevents singing.

Nanny’s Lullaby

– Makes all enemies fall asleep instantly. Costs 1 ether.

Ballad of Bravery

– Doubles the attack power of the rest of the party for the remainder of the round. Costs 3 ether.

Rapid March

– Allows two turns per round for the rest of the party for the remainder of the round. Costs 3 ether.

Lucky Chant

– Improves the battle results of the rest of the party for the remainder of the round (the die is rolled twice per turn, and the better result is used). Costs 3 ether.

Love Serenade

– Restores 10 health to the rest of the party instantly. Costs 5 ether.

Esoteric Melody

– Restores 5 ether to the rest of the party instantly. Costs 5 ether.

Hard Rock Anthem

– Gives 10 SP to the rest of the party for the remainder of the round. Costs 5 ether.

Tango de Resistencia

– Gives immunity to magic to the rest of the party for the remainder of the round. Costs 10 ether.

Angelic Aria

– Causes light-elemental damage equal to the minstrel’s level to all enemies instantly. Costs 10 ether.

Dirge of the Phoenix

– Revives all knocked out allies with 1 health for the remainder of the round. Costs 20 ether.

Minstrels can learn new songs during their travels.

[Kintobor]

Both look good, Sandy. I've got no issue with Minstrel's battle songs, although the spike in ether for Dirge of the Phoenix seems slightly unnecessary, especially since the minstrel is susceptible to free hits and AoE now.

[Zepher]

Like the changes to Minstrel, and am willing to see the new Scholar used in combat first (I still think it's a little OP, but I've absolutely been wrong before)! Thanks for listening to us, Sandy!

[Sandy]

Both look good, Sandy. I've got no issue with Minstrel's battle songs, although the spike in ether for Dirge of the Phoenix seems slightly unnecessary, especially since the minstrel is susceptible to free hits and AoE now.

Seeing it used in Quest#93 made me realize how powerful the song is, so the higher ether costs prevents it from getting overused.

[Flipz]

Both of those changes look good to me, though I'd still keep the idea of increasing Minstrel song Ether costs on the table, at least until we've had more opportunity for testing.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Flipz

[Sandy]

(I still think it's a little OP, but I've absolutely been wrong before)!

How is it still overpowered?

Do you realize that Level 30 players have 40-50 points of ether, so if the Educated Hits worked the other way, they would get that big of a bonus to their attacks by default. This way around, they have to work to spend the ether to get a bigger bonus, and spending 50 ether isn't as easy as it sounds.

[Zepher]

Do you realize that Level 30 players have 40-50 points of ether, so if the Educated Hits worked the other way, they would get that big of a bonus to their attacks by default. This way around, they have to work to spend the ether to get a bigger bonus, and spending 50 ether isn't as easy as it sounds.

With the shield skill and arcane wisdom, I think they'll power through ether quickly! But I agree also that the ether remaining for be a bad worse idea. I think that it's a cool power bonus, but maybe too much for this class. But, again, I'm more than willing to see it in action first! Not trying to be a stick in the mud, just offering my opinion.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Zepher

[Flipz]

Yeah, I'm definitely interested in seeing this in action via Byblos, not the least of which because Arthur'll have to obey his orders to the letter and the possibilities for that are hilarious.

[JimBee]

I like the changes so far to both classes. There is one more complication I found with the Scholar, though: what about arc scrolls? On SHIELD rolls will they be cast on every applicable enemy?

And I also think the ether cost boost for Dirge of the Phoenix is unnecessary. 20 ether is a lot for 1 health; a Phoenix Incense or Roots of Life can revive everyone at full health with a lot less cost. Comparatively, Lucky Chant only costs 3 ether and a party-wide lucky effect is arguably better than 1 health revival.

[Flipz]

I like the changes so far to both classes. There is one more complication I found with the Scholar, though: what about arc scrolls? On SHIELD rolls will they be cast on every applicable enemy?

I imagine they would, the wording of the SHIELD roll wouldn't prevent it. Of course, if the Scholar is doing their job, they will have cast that arc scroll already, so it would be excluded thanks to the effect already being present.

[Palathadric]

I should think so. Why wouldn't it?

Edit: How I did not see Flipz post before posting is beyond me.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Palathadric

[Sandy]

And I also think the ether cost boost for Dirge of the Phoenix is unnecessary. 20 ether is a lot for 1 health; a Phoenix Incense or Roots of Life can revive everyone at full health with a lot less cost. Comparatively, Lucky Chant only costs 3 ether and a party-wide lucky effect is arguably better than 1 health revival.

Except that the Dirge is 100% sure and not only revives everyone but keeps them alive for the remainder of the round, as well. But I'll consider lowering it back, if people are that shocked by the change.

[Kintobor]

Except that the Dirge is 100% sure and not only revives everyone but keeps them alive for the remainder of the round, as well. But I'll consider lowering it back, if people are that shocked by the change.

Even lowering it to 15 wouldn't be that bad, Sandy. 20's a bit too high.

[Sandy]

I like the changes so far to both classes. There is one more complication I found with the Scholar, though: what about arc scrolls? On SHIELD rolls will they be cast on every applicable enemy?

You can't pick-and-choose with Arc Scrolls, so it depends on the targetted enemy. If it is immune to the effect or already has that effect, the Arc Scroll won't be used. If not, it will be used on all enemies, no matter what their effects are.

Even lowering it to 15 wouldn't be that bad, Sandy. 20's a bit too high.

So it's all about getting your way, isn't it? I could lower it to 19 ether and everyone would be satisfied, I'd imagine.

...Just kidding, of course.

[Kintobor]

So it's all about getting your way, isn't it? I could lower it to 19 ether and everyone would be satisfied, I'd imagine.

...Just kidding, of course.

Seeing as how I'm one of the few people wanting to go Minstrel... yes.

[Palathadric]

I would actually wipe Dirge of the Phoenix out completely for being overpowered...but maybe that's just me. Something that I think would be more inline with the other minstrel songs would be if it's like the Dirge of the Death Walk where the hero is revived for that turn, can have an action, take a free hit, and then loses his consciousness again for the next round.

Wow, it started out as a joke, but I think I actually really like that idea. Monk Pretzel for Minstrel!!!

[JimBee]

Except that the Dirge is 100% sure and not only revives everyone but keeps them alive for the remainder of the round, as well. But I'll consider lowering it back, if people are that shocked by the change.

Oh, I didn't realize it acted like Sentinel after reviving... in which case I think the ether cost is appropriate.

[Flare]

20 ether is appropriate, I think.

[Myrddyn]

What if the Scholar has both a scroll and an arc-scroll for the same effect? Do they just cast the Arc-scroll, or just the normal scroll, or both, or does the QM flip a coin?

Sorry, I'm being pedantic.

I like Palathadric's "Dirge of Michael Jackson" idea for Minstrel's reviving song, too - especially if it allows the K/O'ed heroes to receive XP if the battle is won in that round.

At least as an unique quest-dropped song that costs less ether, instead of completely replacing Dirge of the Phoenix.

...if it's like the Dirge of the Death Walk where the hero is revived for that turn, can have an action, take a free hit, and then loses his consciousness again for the next round....

Have the hero lose consciousness at the beginning of the next round?

[Flipz]

What if the Scholar has both a scroll and an arc-scroll for the same effect? Do they just cast the Arc-scroll, or just the normal scroll, or both, or does the QM flip a coin?

Sorry, I'm being pedantic.

Again, if the Scholar is doing their job AT ALL, this isn't an issue--Arc Scrolls will in all likelihood never see use in a Scholar's SHIELD roll, since they should be OPENING every fight with them.

[joeshmoe554]

What if the Scholar has both a scroll and an arc-scroll for the same effect? Do they just cast the Arc-scroll, or just the normal scroll, or both, or does the QM flip a coin?

Sorry, I'm being pedantic.

It depends if the first scroll cast is successful, if it is then the target would have that effect and not cast the second, if not then it would attempt to cast the second scroll as well. Which scroll is cast first would depend on which is listed first in the player's inventory.

Edited June 23, 2014 by joeshmoe554

[Myrddyn]

Which scroll is cast first would depend on which is listed first in the player's inventory.

Ah, of course.

Even says it in the class description.

[Palathadric]

Have the hero lose consciousness at the beginning of the next round?

Yeah, basically after the free hits are dealt so either at the very, very end of the round or at the beginning of the next before any actions occur.

[Sandy]

Here's the illustration for the Scholar for your viewing pleasure. I'll make the official rule page tomorrow.

[Kintobor]

Looks good! Loving the parts usage!

Do books count as thrown weapons, or are we making a new weapon type? Sorry if this has been brought up already.