Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[UsernameMDM]

Like I said, it gives high level PCs something to look forward to instead of retiring a character. If you don't like it, just don't play it. ;)

Sandy doesn't like it, so it probably won't pass, but I think I am going to flesh the idea out anyway just for fun.

[Kintobor]

I ain't stopping you. It comes down to personal preference, I guess.

[Waterbrick Down]

Okay, true. Perhaps I'm not the best person to put this into perspective seeing as how I've done some things in the hall to progress Karie's personal life. I just don't like the idea of the Partisan. It's really hard to do a sidekick character without it feeling forced or tacked on. I like Finnegan and Barty and McCaffery because they feel like an extension of the character and they don't feel forced. I'd put Meldrin on there as well, but I still have issues with his execution RP wise. How more forced can you get besides "here's a character that now follows you around because hooray for beneficial stats." Finnegan and McCaffery help define the hero's character, not their stats. I feel that's the difference. Although Turdwing is a different story.

Perhaps it would help for people looking for a second character to leap into once they hit level one, but then the Partisan's skills would also somehow have to translate over. I don't know. I don't want everyone running around with a secondary character. I feel it'd remove the quirks and uniqueness of our players who have a companion do and do it well.

It's not a requirement that you get a sidekick character, just an option if you would like one and again not everyone would get one due to the requirements. It's simply another option to allow customization just as equipment, advanced classes, and potentially secondary character are. Also it should be note that "playing with yourself" isn't against the rules (nor should it be in my book) but it is rather lack-luster to read, still we have quite a few examples of players pulling it off well and an almost absence of players who haven't. I'm not necessarily arguing that this must be something that we implement, I'm just trying to look at it from a rational point of view and counter "perceived" potential problems. If it's merely matters of opinion then, then those who disagree simply wouldn't have to implement it. Edited July 4, 2014 by Waterbrick Down

[CMP]

I'm not big on the idea. If anything I think it'd be cool if the requirement for second characters was changed. I've brought it up before, but I feel like it would revitalize Heroica in a very significant way. These days everyone's in and out of Quests relatively quickly, or it's just the Questees of one party that's sitting around in the hall. Some of us have been playing for so long our characters have developed to the point where they're very set in their ways - which isn't a bad thing, but character development can slow down to a crawl. Having a bunch of new characters played by experienced players, though, I feel would kinda bring new life to everything.

[Waterbrick Down]

I'm not big on the idea. If anything I think it'd be cool if the requirement for second characters was changed. I've brought it up before, but I feel like it would revitalize Heroica in a very significant way. These days everyone's in and out of Quests relatively quickly, or it's just the Questees of one party that's sitting around in the hall. Some of us have been playing for so long our characters have developed to the point where they're very set in their ways - which isn't a bad thing, but character development can slow down to a crawl. Having a bunch of new characters played by experienced players, though, I feel would kinda bring new life to everything.

I hear what you're saying, Skrall's still got 20 more battles to go which is about 4 more quests which puts him at another 16 months or so. Hence why I'm more open to new ways of sparking some life and interest into things.

[CMP]

I hear what you're saying, Skrall's still got 20 more battles to go which is about 4 more quests which puts him at another 16 months or so. Hence why I'm more open to new ways of sparking some life and interest into things.

I feel like the intention of the Level 50 requirement was to reward those who've put a lot of time and effort into Heroica. But experience is increasingly growing away from that with the Medals and the Fields of Glory. It's super easy just to farm for a few months and then be miles ahead of everyone else, plus you have to account for slower/longer Quests.

[Waterbrick Down]

I feel like the intention of the Level 50 requirement was to reward those who've put a lot of time and effort into Heroica. But experience is increasingly growing away from that with the Medals and the Fields of Glory. It's super easy just to farm for a few months and then be miles ahead of everyone else, plus you have to account for slower/longer Quests.

Hey that's 16 months with a medal of glory and a trip to the fields already in the bag, it'd be 3x that without it. Medal's have almost become a necessity if you want to advance in my opinion.

[CMP]

Hey that's 16 months with a medal of glory and a trip to the fields already in the bag, it'd be 3x that without it. Medal's have almost become a necessity if you want to advance in my opinion.

That's why I feel like it kind of sucks that you have to grind for experience to earn something that seems like it was implemented to reward dedication to the game.

[Sandy]

I'm not big on the idea. If anything I think it'd be cool if the requirement for second characters was changed. I've brought it up before, but I feel like it would revitalize Heroica in a very significant way.

I hear you, but I kinda fear that if the requirements for the second character were lowered (eg. down to Level 40), people would just put their current character on the back-burner and focus on their new one, meaning we wouldn't see most of the Expert, Veteran or Master Classes in use at all. I know you could play of them at the same time, but there's really not enough quests around for a wealth of new characters, either - remember that several people are near or past Level 40 already.

So yeah, I don't think the "time" for second characters is quite yet. But I do encourage more people to head to the Fields and grab those Medals of Glory to make their progress faster.

[CMP]

I hear you, but I kinda fear that if the requirements for the second character were lowered (eg. down to Level 40), people would just put their current character on the back-burner and focus on their new one, meaning we wouldn't see most of the Expert, Veteran or Master Classes in use at all. I know you could play of them at the same time, but there's really not enough quests around for a wealth of new characters, either - remember that several people are near or past Level 40 already.

A break with some characters wouldn't be the worst thing. Not everyone needs to be on a Quest at the same time. With more characters, the slower players wouldn't be picked for Quests as often and slow them down, there'd be a lot more roleplaying in the hall, and, well, everything would be a lot more lively. Everything just seems to be moving at a snail's pace right now. The hall's empty except for people signing up for Quests and even the faster moving Quests have only just gotten their start.

Also, I might add just how much easier it is to host new players - and enjoyable since we'd get to see new characters from well-established players.

The most recent Unlimited Quest party seems to be a loooong term one, too. Medals aren't really easily available. And I really don't like how you pretty much have to one if you want to get anywhere. I'm not too broken up about doing 82 battles (so another four years of this game) to get to Master Classes, but I'd really like to have access to second characters before then. Is Heroica going to last long enough to make those second characters worth anything by the time the main plot reaches its climax?

Edited July 4, 2014 by CallMePie

[Sandy]

A question regarding the Alchemist's Mixture:

How would you feel about replacing Cluster Bomb with Doomsday Bomb, and have the 6+6 result be another Explosion? I feel the special items that the class can create, plus their "Instant Items" trait make them very powerful, so I'd like to add more risk to the Shield-skill (since there's a very low risk at rolling Explosion now).

[Endgame]

If you do that, I'm afraid Lucky Alchemists (who got 4 rolls on mixture, as well as a higher chance of a shield roll) have a really high chance of nuking themselves and KOing themselves. If you wish to rebalance the class, I'd suggest Lucky being unable to affect mixture rolls.

[Sandy]

If you do that, I'm afraid Lucky Alchemists (who got 4 rolls on mixture, as well as a higher chance of a shield roll) have a really high chance of nuking themselves and KOing themselves.

I realize that, but the items higher in the list are much better, too. So the lucky alchemist would be punished for being too lucky. Does that sound like a bad idea?

[StickFig]

The hall's empty except for people signing up for Quests and even the faster moving Quests have only just gotten their start.

I firmly agree with this. The Hall could be much more interesting if there were actually people there - and we see that from time to time, like when Baltarok ended and 20+ heroes showed up in the hall all at once. The best thing for the hall would be if about half the characters were consistently there, interacting - which means we need more heroes, more (short) quests, and probably more players to take an interest outside of quests.

I realize that, but the items higher in the list are much better, too. So the lucky alchemist would be punished for being too lucky. Does that sound like a bad idea?

I vote yes for nerfing Guts.

More seriously, I don't think it's good to have Lucky break down as an effect by making poor outcomes more likely. If the bottom of the list got worse, that's one thing, but "too lucky" doesn't make much sense to me.

[Flipz]

+ one for "too Lucky" being a bad thing. A better option would be to either give the skill some sort of cost to use (maybe it eats a random Marketplace-available consumable or two to make the Mixture?) or else, as previously suggested, to just make the Mixture roll immune to Lucky and Jinxed entirely.

[Endgame]

Yeah, I don't think "too lucky" should be a thing. Think cards, or, more specifically, Blackjack: Why should you be penalized for being dealt a Jack and an Ace?

I would support removing Luck's effect on mixing rolls. It still affects obtaining the shield roll, so no need for it to virtually kick in twice.

[Sandy]

Thanks for your input, guys! I've decided to remove the effect of lucky and jinxed from Mixture, and changed the pretty useless "Cluster Bomb" into a "Baffle Bomb" which causes 15 damage and confusion to all enemies.

Scuba, take notice!

[Endgame]

Sandy, it appears you posted the same page again, unless I'm mistaken?

[Sandy]

Sandy, it appears you posted the same page again, unless I'm mistaken?

You need to refresh the picture, since it uses the same filename as the old version.

[UsernameMDM]

Scuba, take notice!

And there was weeping & gnashing of teeth...

[Jebediahs]

Aeromancer

These mages really blow.

* Additional Health: +3

* Additional Ether: +6

* Weapons: Staves, Wands, Scrolls, Daggers, Gems

* Job Trait(s): Zephyr - The aeromancer can use a gentle breeze to amplify and redirect sound to eavesdrop on conversations (telescope for sounds).

Galeforce - The aeromancer lends a speed boosting wind to her targets.

Hot Air - The aeromancer talks and talks sometimes (1/6) successfully confusing her target enough to navigate her way out of tense situations.

Spellcasting - (See mage).

* Battle Style: Whirlwind - The aeromancer’s winds are uplifting as well as devastating.

1. SHIELD:

Razor Winds

- The aeromancer creates a powerful biting wind that causes the bleeding effect to all enemies and deals damage to them in an amount equal to the aeromancer’s weapon power added to her level (WP:20 + Level 30 = 50 damage to all enemies + bleeding effect).

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/GREATER BOOST: The aeromancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times her weapon power added to her level (WP:20 x 2 + Level 30 = 70 damage). Optionally, the aeromancer can spend 3 ether to use her winds to grant a comrade

evasion

for three rounds. If the target is under the influence of jump, high assault or fly, the boost creates an updraft that adds 3 to their damage modifier instead. The aeromancer is only strong enough to boost characters with shield power lower than the aeromancer’s weapon power divided by 2 rounded down (WP:20 / 2 = Able to boost characters with less than 10 SP).

3. HIT/SPELL/BOOST: The aeromancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to her weapon power added to her level (WP:20 + Level 30 = 50 damage). Optionally, the aeromancer can spend 2 ether to use her winds to grant a comrade evasion for two rounds. If the target is under the influence of jump, high assault or fly, the boost creates an updraft that adds 2 to the damage modifier instead. The aeromancer is only strong enough to boost characters with shield power lower than the aeromancer’s weapon power divided by 2 rounded down (WP:20 / 2 = Able to boost characters with less than 10 SP).

4. TRANSCENDENCE: The aeromancer grants herself the transcended effect.

5. DAMAGE/SQUALL: The aeromancer is struck by her opponent’s attack. Optionally, the aeromancer lends too much power to her boost causing her spell to hinder her party. All party members with shield power lower than the aeromancer’s weapon power divided by 2 rounded down are slowed (WP:20 / 2 = All party members with less than 10 SP are slowed). Affected characters that are under the influence of jump, high assault or fly subtract 1 from their damage modifier due to the downdraft. The aeromancer loses ether in an amount equal to the number of party members affected by the squall.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/GREATER SQUALL: The aeromancer is struck by her opponent’s special damage. Optionally, the aeromancer lends too much power to her boost causing her spell to hinder her party. All party members with shield power lower than the aeromancer’s weapon power divided by 2 rounded down are slowed (WP:20 / 2 = All party members with less than 10 SP are slowed). Affected characters that are under the influence of jump, high assault or fly subtract 2 from their damage modifier due to the downdraft. The aeromancer loses ether in an amount equal to the number of party members affected by the squall.

----

Shockmaster

What these mages do is shocking.

* Additional Health: +3

* Additional Ether: +6

* Weapons: Staves, Wands, Scrolls, Daggers, Gems

* Job Trait(s): Lightning Form - The shockmaster transforms into living electricity causing all of his attacks to deal lightning elemental damage and x4 damage to enemies weak to lightning. The shockmaster also gains the elemental weaknesses of an electric monster. This form may be assumed before the shockmaster’s turn in combat at the initial cost of 5 ether and an additional 5 ether per round while this form is maintained. Consumables can not be used on the shockmaster while in this form.

Chain Lightning - The shockmaster’s lightning spells hit up to five enemies below his target in the enemy battle order for half the strength of the attack against the initial target.

Spellcasting - (See mage).

* Battle Style: Electrifying - Zzzzt!

1. SHIELD:

Thunderdome

- The shockmaster surrounds the allied party with a protective dome of electricity for three rounds causing each member to deal lightning damage to their target in an amount equal to the shockmaster’s level after receiving damage from their opponent. Additional SHIELD rolls add to the three round timer.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/STRONG JOLT: The shockmaster attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times his weapon power added to his level (WP:20 x 2 + Level 30 = 70 damage). Optionally, the shockmaster can spend 1 ether to remove 1 random negative status effect from his target and protect the target from receiving an additional negative status effect for the next two rounds.

3. HIT/SPELL/JOLT: The shockmaster attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to his weapon power added to his level (WP:20 + Level 30 = 50 damage). Optionally, the shockmaster can spend 1 ether to remove 1 random negative status effect from his target and protect the target from receiving an additional negative status effect for the next round.

4. MEDITATE/WEAK JOLT: The shockmaster forgoes his attack and concentrates to recover 1 ether. Optionally, the shockmaster can spend 1 ether to remove 1 random negative status effect from his target.

5. DAMAGE/WEAK ELECTROCUTE: The shockmaster is struck by his opponent’s attack. Optionally, any attempt at jolting fails so the target loses health in an amount equal to the shockmaster’s weapon power divided by 5 rounded up and is stunned (WP:20/5 = 4 damage + stunned).

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/ELECTROCUTE: The shockmaster is struck by his opponent’s special damage. Optionally, any attempt at jolting fails so the target loses heath in an amount equal to the shockmaster’s weapon power divided by 2 rounded up and is stunned (WP:20/2 = 10 damage + stunned).

[Lind Whisperer]

Am I correct in thinking that there isn't an advanced class specifically aimed at throwing weapons?

[Kintobor]

Am I correct in thinking that there isn't an advanced class specifically aimed at throwing weapons?

No, there isn't but considering you started as a rogue, your five choices in Advanced classes are Witch, Black Knight, Assassin, Sorcerer, and Raider.

[Lind Whisperer]

No, there isn't but considering you started as a rogue, your five choices in Advanced classes are Witch, Black Knight, Assassin, Sorcerer, and Raider.

Right. I meant Expert Class based around throwing weapons, not Advanced Class. I really need to watch my typing.

I'm planning to go Assassin, since Raider and Black Knight are both more or less front row, non-ranged attack classes. I've just been trying to figure out what Expert Class to someday train for.

[Scubacarrot]

So. While I was gone, why was my character, and only mine, for a good long while it seems like, nerfed for no reason? The Alchemist is not that good, it hasn't even been in action yet! Just because I picked it and Guts has the best weapon in the game does not mean I took it because it is the strongest class. (Regulator, I'm looking at you. If I could be... Joking... Joking...) I took it because it was the most fun class for me.

It's really, really not. As an Alchemist, there is only a 2 in 6 chance you deal damage, and their damage dealing hits are nothing special, at all!

Their Shield roll is by far their only and greatest attraction. The fact that Lucky has (had? ) such a unique effect on the Alchemist Shield Roll was what all the fun was about. Be lucky, get cool shit, basically!

If you want to nerf stuff about the Alchemist, which you shouldn't, nerf the Miss roll. I am in the progress of loopholing it and breaking the economy (if you can call it that) of the game. Just saying. If this change goes through I'll think about choosing another class.

Sandy, you instantly nerf a fun class into the ground after one person suggests it, while you ignore blatant problems that are continuously pointed out. That's my view of it, it's not good!

PLEASE undo the nerf, Sandy. Thanks. I think Guts deserves some fun in his endeavors. I mean, how can you deny a guy like that anything?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Scubacarrot