Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[CMP]

What got nerfed?

Nevermind, I see it. I don't see much of an issue. Just don't be so reliant on having the Lucky effect and it's like not even relevant.

[Scubacarrot]

Before, The Alchemist's Mixture roll was affected by the Lucky (and also the Jinxed effect), so that when an Alchemist lands a Shield, the die was then rolled four times. The highest two results would then be used to determine the outcome if the Alchemist was lucky, and the lowest two when Jinxed.

For example: Previous Lucky Mixture Roll:

Five, One, Six, One,

Five and Six are Highest, Result is a Baffle Bomb (or something).

Nevermind, I see it. I don't see much of an issue. Just don't be so reliant on having the Lucky effect and it's like not even relevant.

Yeah right.

[CMP]

Yeah right.

Doesn't affect the fact that I've been considering the class anyway.

[Kintobor]

I don't see the issue either, and I'm hosting the first alchemist it seems. It's better than what Sandy was planning to do, which was make double sixes another Explosion, punishing alchemists for being "too lucky". You don't even know if it's fun yet or not. Why don't we run some rounds in 103 and see how it goes? You're still more or less going to get Shields with a lucky alchemists, now it's just a little less reliant on being lucky 24/7, an issue that's still prevalent in the game.

[Sandy]

Alchemist wasn't nerfed, only simplified, since I removed both lucky and jinxed from affecting the Mixture. The whole thing with effects affecting the Shield-roll just raised too many questions to my liking. I also introduced the Rubber Gloves that improve the chances of getting better Mixtures. I'm considering putting them up for sale at the Marketplace, too.

I'm also considering going Alchemist, too, so it's not like I made the class worse out of spite or something. Having the ability to use an item and attack on the same turn is pretty damn powerful for a support class, in my opinion.

[Waterbrick Down]

I actually like the dropping of lucky from the shield roll, because it allows for items like Rubber Gloves to be useful. Plus if we're making comparison, assassin rolls aren't affected by lucky either.

[Palathadric]

I'm planning to go Assassin, since Raider and Black Knight are both more or less front row, non-ranged attack classes. I've just been trying to figure out what Expert Class to someday train for.

Well, they don't need to be. A black knight who stays in the back row and uses cards as his weapons could be pretty cool and innovative, not even talking about Raiders there.

I would almost say that the other two could be better for a rogue with throwing weapons since the assassin is not exactly meant to be a serious damage dealer (...until Hybros and Sorrow came along that is... )

[Flipz]

Right. I meant Expert Class based around throwing weapons, not Advanced Class. I really need to watch my typing.

I'm planning to go Assassin, since Raider and Black Knight are both more or less front row, non-ranged attack classes. I've just been trying to figure out what Expert Class to someday train for.

Winged Warrior uses throwing weapons, as do Beast Warrior, Infiltrator, and Scholar.

[Lind Whisperer]

Winged Warrior uses throwing weapons, as do Beast Warrior, Infiltrator, and Scholar.

I'll go over those.

In my spare moments, I've been fiddling with my own little ideas for an advanced class* specifically based around throwing weapons. Well, two, actually, but more like two sides of a coin**.

Would having a "Boomerang" ability - weapon is automatically returned without losing a turn to retrieve it if the attack was 25% or less of maximum attack - be overpowered?

*I know I have to lead a quest before they can be put up for official inspection.

**Not like LEGOman273's ideas for the Brotherhood of Doom, one has an attack bonus on Demons/Dark enemies and the other on Holy/Luminous, and that's it.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[Endgame]

Advanced classes may not be suggested, but Expert Classes can.

[Lind Whisperer]

Advanced classes may not be suggested, but Expert Classes can.

This is kind of embarrassing - this is the second time I've typed advanced instead of expert.

[Endgame]

This is kind of embarrassing - this is the second time I've typed advanced instead of expert.

Don't worry - when I first joined, I thought a good quest idea was "Chaos god opens space portals to drop chaos nukes!"

Trust me, you're doing ten times as well as I did when I first got into the game.

[Waterbrick Down]

I'll go over those.

In my spare moments, I've been fiddling with my own little ideas for an advanced class* specifically based around throwing weapons. Well, two, actually, but more like two sides of a coin**.

Would having a "Boomerang" ability - weapon is automatically returned without losing a turn to retrieve it if the attack was 25% or less of maximum attack - be overpowered?

*I know I have to lead a quest before they can be put up for official inspection.

**Not like LEGOman273's ideas for the Brotherhood of Doom, one has an attack bonus on Demons/Dark enemies and the other on Holy/Luminous, and that's it.

All else held equal, it wouldn't be overpowered, but it wouldn't be able to compete against other ranged classes as far as damage output. Honestly, throwing weapons tend to be more for style than effectiveness in this game, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Honestly, the only real advantage throwing weapons have is that they tend to have more special abilities than your average ranged weapon, but this is controlled by QM drops and not really inherent to the weapon class itself.

[Flipz]

All else held equal, it wouldn't be overpowered, but it wouldn't be able to compete against other ranged classes as far as damage output. Honestly, throwing weapons tend to be more for style than effectiveness in this game, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Honestly, the only real advantage throwing weapons have is that they tend to have more special abilities than your average ranged weapon, but this is controlled by QM drops and not really inherent to the weapon class itself.

I'd actually make the "Miss" roll be an Aim variant that automatically gather the thrown weapons or something like that, rather than it being a specific job trait. It's simpler and provides a clear advantage over throwing weapon classes without being overly unbalanced (since it's still only a 1/6 chance).

As far as traits, something that provides a benefit based on the number of throwing weapons already in the target might be in order if the class is specifically aimed at throwing weapons.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Flipz

[JimBee]

I wanted to bring up a few minor concerns with some expert classes. I'm not proposing any changes (yet), but I wanted to hear others' thoughts.

Cannoneer is very similar to Arch Mage in terms of the rolls, using bombs instead of ether. With all of the different bombs available, including Military Grade and "god" bombs along with effect bombs, I feel like the class should use the effects and varied damage characteristic to the bombs rather than just being able to spend a bomb to cause AoE elemental damage.

Also, I've realized that for Winged Warrior the Fly multipliers only have a 1/4 chance of being effective at all (because it would take two turns to fly and attack, and they'd have to be successful twice in a row). There's an exponentially decreasing chance for each additional Fly counter to be effective (1/8 for two counters to be used in an attack, 1/16 for three, etc.). The point of the class is to allow massive attack power if the character is lucky enough, but I don't want to make it that hard to use. So, I'm thinking that if the Shield-skill didn't use Flying counters or possibly even added to them, the class would be be more accessible.

Thoughts?

[CMP]

I like that idea for Cannoneer. Level + Weapon Power + 1/2 Bomb Damage + Bomb Effects for a regular Bombard and full Bomb Damage for Critical seems reasonable.

[Zepher]

I have given both my Cannoneer NPCs an ability that allows for that. Though, having been the only person to play Cannoneer so far (I think) and albeit as an NPC, I can tell you that it's a fun and POWERFUL class. Also important to note, while the archmage and cannoneer may seem similar there is a distinct difference (one I'm not sure has been properly brought up) - the weapon effects can also be "bombarded" which no other class can do. For example, if Erdy went cannoneer 4 of her rolls would allow for the cursed and poisoned by 7 effect to be transferred to ALL enemies, which is pretty powerful and something an archmage can't pull off.

[Flare]

I'm embarassed to ask this (again) but who is the creator of the Winged Warrior?

[CMP]

I'm embarassed to ask this (again) but who is the creator of the Winged Warrior?

JimB.

[Flare]

JimB.

Thanks.

[Sandy]

Here's the first draft for the Weather Mage. It's still lacking two job traits and ideas for the Disasters, so good suggestions are welcome!

Weather Mage – These wizards change the climate to complement their spells.

• Additional Health: +4
  
• Additional Ether: +6 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)
  
• Weapons: Weather Mages cast spells through the usual broomsticks, staves and wands but also through bows, crossbows and handcannons. They can use both gems and scrolls.
  
• Job Trait: Spellcasting (see Mage);
  
• Battle Style: Climatic – Weather Mages cast spells and make forecasts through gems.
  

1. SHIELD:

Disaster

– The weather mage spends 1 ether to conjure an extreme weather phenomenon, based on the current weather (see

Weather & Disasters

). If there is currently no weather condition, the weather mage instead spends 1 ether to change the weather based on a chosen gem for the remainder of the battle, unless it is changed again (see

Weather & Disasters

). If no gem was chosen or all ether is depleted, nothing happens.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/GREAT FORECAST: The weather mage attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 10x 2 + Level 15 = 35 (elemental) damage) Optionally, the weather mage can spend 1 ether to change the weather based on the chosen gem for the following six rounds, unless it is changed again (see

Weather & Disasters

).

3. HIT/SPELL/FORECAST: The weather mage attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 10 + Level 15 = 25 (elemental) damage) Optionally, the weather mage can spend 1 ether to change the weather based on the chosen gem for the following three rounds, unless it is changed again (see

Weather & Disasters

).

4. AIM/SPELL AIM/POOR FORECAST: The weather mage focuses their strike to attack their target with strength equal to their weapon power only. The weather mage can spend 1 ether to aim an elemental spell with the same power instead. Optionally, the weather mage can spend 1 ether to change the weather based the chosen gem for the following round (see

Weather & Disasters

).

5. DAMAGE/BAD FORECAST: The weather mage is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, the weather mage wastes 1 ether forecasting a weather that does not happen.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/WEIRD FORECAST: The weather mage is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Optionally, the weather mage spends 1 ether forecasting but conjures an unintended weather disregarding the chosen gem for the following round.

Weather & Disasters:

FORECAST

The Weather Mage can change the weather for future rounds with a gem in their possession. The duration of the forecast depends on the roll. The new forecast replaces any previous weather conditions.

Breezy (Sapphire): doubles wind-elemental damage, halves earth-elemental damage

Bright (Diamond): doubles light-elemental damage, halves darkness-elemental damage

Cold (Opal): doubles ice-elemental damage, halves wood-elemental damage

Dim (Amethyst): doubles darkness-elemental damage, halves light-elemental damage

Dry (Garnet): doubles earth-elemental damage, halves lightning-elemental damage

Electrified (Topaz): doubles lightning-elemental damage, halves water-elemental damage

Hot (Ruby): doubles fire-elemental damage, halves ice-elemental damage

Humid (Aquamarine): doubles water-elemental damage, halves fire-elemental damage

Lush (Emerald): doubles wood-elemental damage, halves wind-elemental damage

DISASTER

The Weather Mage’s Shield-skill depends on the current weather condition. If there is no current weather condition or it is not one of the nine basic weather conditions, the Weather Mage will instead change the weather for the remainder of the battle based on the chosen gem, starting from the following round.

Abyss (during a Dim weather):

Avalanche (during a Cold weather):

Earthquake (during a Dry weather):

Flood (during a Humid weather):

Inferno (during a Hot weather):

Kudzu (during a Lush weather):

Sunflare (during a Bright weather):

Thunderstorm (during an Electrified weather):

Tornado (during a Breezy weather):

[Endgame]

I think that's easily the most complex class yet. 16 rolls total, 9 weather types associated a gem that bolsters one and weakens another, 9 different shield rolls, varying amount of time for weather changes... Throw in two more job traits and it really starts getting tough to use/roll with.

[Sandy]

I think that's easily the most complex class yet. 16 rolls total, 9 weather types associated a gem that bolsters one and weakens another, 9 different shield rolls, varying amount of time for weather changes... Throw in two more job traits and it really starts getting tough to use/roll with.

I don't know, I think it's pretty straightforward. It's basically Evoker with weather forecasts instead of summons, and you can always check the correct Disaster to use from the rule page...

I'm thinking the Disasters would be more than just elemental spells, maybe having effects attached to them or something like that.

[UsernameMDM]

I'm thinking the Disasters would be more than just elemental spells, maybe having effects attached to them or something like that.

Elemental AoE & negative status?

[Sandy]

Elemental AoE & negative status?

They could vary. Some could be AoE, some single targets, some could have negative effects, some positive... If that sounds good to you guys.