Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Sandy]

Suggestion: the summoned creatures can take a number of hits equal to the card's level (a la the vines in 93 and the horses in Baltarok); that way, they can prevent Free Hits and don't have to cost Ether to make attack, but they also then don't require a lot of extra work to figure out in terms of setting HP.

Umm, but WBD's suggestion allows the job class to summon as many minions as the hero has cards. The party would never get hit by Free Hits in that case.

[Lind Whisperer]

Umm, but WBD's suggestion allows the job class to summon as many minions as the hero has cards. The party would never get hit by Free Hits in that case.

Not sure how that's a bad thing.

But seriously, WBD, great job on the class! And well-picked parts for the figures, too, they match the idea perfectly!

[Flipz]

Umm, but WBD's suggestion allows the job class to summon as many minions as the hero has cards. The party would never get hit by Free Hits in that case.

It does cost quite a bit of Ether to summon them, though, although looking at it again I see it's not a variable Ether cost, so maybe it's not as expensive as I thought it'd be.

In that case, though, then maybe it should cost Ether to make the card monsters attack? Or is the summoning cost enough?

[Waterbrick Down]

Ooh, how interesting!

So, would the summons be returned to cards after each battle, or carried onto next battle until the Drafter rolled a Shield?

This job class would be a perfect main prize for the Decamon Tournament event I was planning to host in the future.

Summons would be returned to a Drafter at the end of each battle, hence why they only have to pay the initial summon cost in ether. Unlike Necromancers who have to pay each time their summons attack, Drafters only pay an up front cost, at the cost of having to do it every battle.

That class is really awesome.

What would Ethereal cards show up as?

As Sandy mentioned, their attacks would be non-elemental.

I'd say non-elemental summons, unless WBD has a better idea.

One of the latter two job traits could be replaced with this:

Decamodifying Expert - The Decamon Drafter can use a Decamodifier to turn enemies with half (instead of a quarter) health into cards, if applicable.

That's a great idea! I wasn't a big fan of Summon anyways, but thought a role-playing ability might be wanted. I'd like to keep Decamon Gamble as it contributes to the card-playing aspect of the class.

Suggestion: the summoned creatures can take a number of hits equal to the card's level (a la the vines in 93 and the horses in Baltarok); that way, they can prevent Free Hits and don't have to cost Ether to make attack, but they also then don't require a lot of extra work to figure out in terms of setting HP.

I wanted to work in a way for the summons to be used defensively, but given the low cost of ether and with a well rounded deck, it'd be a little to easy to setup meatshield, unless you specifically summoned a card in defensive mode so that it couldn't attack, then I'd be more fine with that.

Another mechanic I considered but didn't implement, instead of choosing the summon the Drafter would draw one at random, so there rolls would be like this:

2. GREATER WAGERED HIT/GREATER SUMMON: The Drafter attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power times two, added to the number of unsummoned Decamon cards in their deck, added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 2 + 10 Unsummoned Decamon Cards + Level 30 = 70 damage). Alternatively the Drafter may summon three random monsters from their deck at Level equal to 3 times the card's strength at the cost of the cards' total strength in Ether.

3. WAGERED HIT/SUMMON: The Drafter attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power, added to the number of unsummoned Decamon Cards in their deck, added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 + 10 Unsummoned Decamon Cards + Level 30 = 55 damage). Alternatively the Drafter may summon two random monsters from their deck at Level equal to 3 times the card's strength at the cost of the cards' total strength in Ether.

4. MEDITATE/LESSER SUMMON: The Drafter meditates to regain 1 ether. Alternatively the Drafter may summon one random monsters from there deck at Level equal to 3 times the card's strength at the cost of the card's strength in Ether.

Adds a slight bit of randomness to the mix, but one could easily fix that by limiting the cards you keep in your deck, though you then cripple your WAGERED HIT strength. So Drafters can either focus on having lots of cards and having a really high attack strength or they can focus on having a few high strength cards and stick to summoning them.

In that case, though, then maybe it should cost Ether to make the card monsters attack? Or is the summoning cost enough?

Too similar to Necromancer. Since monsters return to their deck at the end of battle and after a shield roll, then Drafter should always be pressed for ether.

[Sandy]

That's a great idea! I wasn't a big fan of Summon anyways, but thought a role-playing ability might be wanted. I'd like to keep Decamon Gamble as it contributes to the card-playing aspect of the class.

Got me thinking, how would the gambling trait be implented in practice? With the Rogue Thief's Gamble, the QM can ask whether the player wants to use it after each round with a successful stealing, but doing that for attacks seems complicated.

Just think about it: Round 1, the Drafter does damage to the enemy, and so do his allies. He then decides to gamble and gets nothing, so the QM would have to first go back to the previous round, re-calculate it, and then roll for the next round, rinse and repeat. Or maybe the Drafter gets double, ends up killing the enemy and making his allies' attacks get diverted to another enemy, which would force the QM to calculate everything again.

So it sounds like it would make rolling for battle results unnecessarily slower and cause confusion - especially to the poor QM! As you should well know, we are not computers, so calculations aren't made in an instant.

[swils]

I thought about that as well, but assumed the answer was simple (and thus shouldnt bother bringing it up, heh)

The player simply announces with their action whether or not they want to try to double up, should they hit.

[Waterbrick Down]

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Got me thinking, how would the gambling trait be implented in practice? With the Rogue Thief's Gamble, the QM can ask whether the player wants to use it after each round with a successful stealing, but doing that for attacks seems complicated.

Just think about it: Round 1, the Drafter does damage to the enemy, and so do his allies. He then decides to gamble and gets nothing, so the QM would have to first go back to the previous round, re-calculate it, and then roll for the next round, rinse and repeat. Or maybe the Drafter gets double, ends up killing the enemy and making his allies' attacks get diverted to another enemy, which would force the QM to calculate everything again.

So it sounds like it would make rolling for battle results unnecessarily slower and cause confusion - especially to the poor QM! As you should well know, we are not computers, so calculations aren't made in an instant.

I thought about that as well, but assumed the answer was simple (and thus shouldnt bother bringing it up, heh)

The player simply announces with their action whether or not they want to try to double up, should they hit.

Exactly. Though that does take the gamble aspect out of it, your decision is based on whether you will hit, not you hit and now you have to decide whether you want to double the damage. Perhaps it be simpler to get rid of the trait and stick to Decamon Sacrifice, Summon, and Decamodifying Expert.

[Flipz]

After some thought, I'd probably prefer the Decamon Sacrifice, Summon, and Decamodifying Expert; like the old version of a Black Knight's Mortal Hit, few people would actually use the skill, and when they did it would more than likely prove more disadvantageous than helpful.

I also think that, while I prefer the randomness of the "[#] random monsters" setup, the "card's level times [#]" setup is more necessary for the cards to have any practical use at all; a Level 30 Evoker's monsters dish out 30-60 damage (depending on elemental weakness), while with the random summoning aspect the highest Level any summon could be would be 10-20--and even with the level-multiplier setup, a Level 10 card (which is SUPREMELY rare) would do a max of 50-100 damage (again, depending on element), and that number could never be upgraded or increased.

[Sandy]

I've reviewed the Decamon Drafter job class that WBD pitched last month, and here's my take on it with some adjustments and rephrasing. If WBD is okay with it, I'd like to give out this job class as a reward in the upcoming Decamon Tournament.

Your thoughts?

Decamon Drafter - These mystical card sharks take the game to a whole new level.

·Additional Health: +9

·Additional Ether: +6 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)

·Weapons: Drafters wield unassuming weapons like clubs, daggers, throwing weapons wands and whips. They can utilize scrolls.

·Job traits: Decamon Sacrifice - The Decamon Drafter can spend a turn to unsummon one of the summoned monsters in battle to restore health to themselves or one of their party members equal to the summon's level; Decamodifying Expert - The Decamon Drafter can use a Decamodifier to turn enemies with half health into cards, if applicable; Summon - Decamon Drafters can spend 1 ether summon a monster from their deck outside of battle to do their bidding. All summons return to the drafter's deck before the beginning of a battle.

·Battle style: Strategic – Decamon Drafters have the ability to turn cards into friendly monsters to fight by their side.

1.SHIELD:

All In

– The drafter summons the remainder of their entire deck with monsters of level equal to two times the card's strength at no ether cost. At the end of the next round, all the drafter's summons are returned to the deck – including those summoned before.

2.GREATER WAGERED HIT/GREATER CARD SUMMON: The drafter attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level and the number of unsummoned Decamon cards in their deck (e.g. WP 15 x 2 + Level 30 + 10 unsummoned Decamon Cards = 70 damage). Optionally, the drafter may turn one of their Decamon Cards into an allied monster of the corresponding element with strength equal to five times the card's strength at the cost of the card's level in ether (see

Card Summoning

).

3.WAGERED HIT/ CARD SUMMON: The drafter attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level and the number of unsummoned Decamon cards in their deck (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 + 10 Unsummoned Decamon Cards = 55 damage). Optionally, the drafter may turn one of their Decamon Cards into an allied monster of the corresponding element with strength equal to three times the card's strength at the cost of the card's level in ether (see

Card Summoning

).

4.MEDITATE/ LESSER CARD SUMMON: The Drafter meditates to regain 1 ether. Optionally, the drafter may turn one of their Decamon Cards into an allied monster of the corresponding element with strength equal to the card's strength at the cost of the card's level in ether (see

Card Summoning

).

5.DAMAGE: The drafter is struck by the opponent's attack.

6.SPECIAL DODGE: The drafter has a 50/50 chance to dodge the opponent's special skill so that it hits the next ally in turn instead, unless the skill hits everybody.

CARD SUMMONING:

Decamon Drafters can summon monsters from their deck of Decamon Cards to aid them in battle. The monster is ready to attack on the following round after the summoning.

The summoned monster’s strength depends on the number on the card as well as the successfulness of the summoning procedure. The element of the monster depends on the card’s type:

Aquatic – Water-elemental

Dark – Darkness-elemental

Electric – Lightning-elemental

Ethereal – Non-elemental

Fiery – Fire-elemental

Flying – Wind-elemental

Icy – Ice-elemental

Luminous – Light-elemental

Plant – Wood-elemental

Rock – Earth-elemental

The summoned monster can attack one enemy once per round at no cost, as designated by the Decamon Drafter. The summon’s attack does not negate Free Hits. The summon cannot be damaged and it is immune to all effects.

The Decamon Drafter can sacrifice a summoned monster to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the monster’s level. The monster is then returned to the deck.

All summoned monsters are turned back to cards and returned to the Decamon Drafter’s deck after the battle. However, if the drafter rolls the “All In” skill, all cards are turned into monsters and returned to the deck at the end of the following round.

[Cutcobra]

Really nice class, but do I really have to go to the Fields of Glory then buy a Decamodifier then win the tournament (which is probably unlikely) just to get this class?

If yes, it doesn't really bother me so don't change the requirements for it.

[Waterbrick Down]

It looks good to me, I think you've captured everything I really wanted in the class.

[Sandy]

Really nice class, but do I really have to go to the Fields of Glory then buy a Decamodifier then win the tournament (which is probably unlikely) just to get this class?

If yes, it doesn't really bother me so don't change the requirements for it.

No, the Decamodifier isn't really needed for the class - you get cards from the Tournament and probably from future quests as well.

[Sandy]

Here's the artwork for both the Decamon Drafter and the Weather Mage.

I decided to swap the Drafter's throwing weapons for wands to give it a more magical edge (and throwing weapons are quite overused for the expert classes). What comes to the Weather Mage, here's more finalized stats for it:

Weather Mage – These wizards change the climate to complement their spells.

• Additional Health: +4
  
• Additional Ether: +6 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)
  
• Weapons: Weather Mages weave magic through the usual broomsticks, staves and wands but they can also use bows, crossbows and handcannons. They can use both gems and scrolls.
  
• Job Traits: Spellcasting (see Mage); Shroud – Weather Mages are immune to the element that the current weather boosts; Forecasting – Weather Mages can change the current weather even outside of battle at the cost of 1 ether.
  
• Battle Style: Climatic – Weather Mages cast spells and make forecasts through gems.
  

1. SHIELD:

Disaster

– The weather mage spends 1 ether to conjure an extreme weather phenomenon, based on the current weather. If there is currently no weather condition, the weather mage instead spends 1 ether to change the weather based on a chosen gem for the remainder of the battle, unless it is changed again (see

Weather & Disasters

). If no gem was chosen or all ether is depleted, nothing happens.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/GREAT FORECAST: The weather mage attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 10x 2 + Level 15 = 35 (elemental) damage) Optionally, the weather mage can spend 1 ether to change the weather based on the chosen gem for the following six rounds, unless it is changed again (see

Weather & Disasters

).

3. HIT/SPELL/FORECAST: The weather mage attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 10 + Level 15 = 25 (elemental) damage) Optionally, the weather mage can spend 1 ether to change the weather based on the chosen gem for the following three rounds, unless it is changed again (see

Weather & Disasters

).

4. MIST/POOR FORECAST: The weather mage spends 1 ether to envelop the target in a mystic mist, making it weak against all elements until the end of the next round regardless of its type or immunities. Optionally, the weather mage can spend 1 ether to change the weather based on the chosen gem for the following round (see

Weather & Disasters

). If all ether is depleted, nothing happens.

5. DAMAGE/BAD FORECAST: The weather mage is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, the weather mage wastes 1 ether forecasting a weather that does not happen.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/WEIRD FORECAST: The weather mage is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Optionally, the weather mage spends 1 ether forecasting but conjures an unintended weather disregarding the chosen gem for the following round.

Weather & Disasters:

FORECAST

The Weather Mage can change the weather for future rounds with a gem in their possession. The duration of the forecast depends on the roll. The new forecast replaces any previous weather conditions.

Breezy (Sapphire): doubles wind-elemental damage, halves earth-elemental damage

Bright (Diamond): doubles light-elemental damage, halves darkness-elemental damage

Cold (Opal): doubles ice-elemental damage, halves wood-elemental damage

Dim (Amethyst): doubles darkness-elemental damage, halves light-elemental damage

Dry (Garnet): doubles earth-elemental damage, halves lightning-elemental damage

Electrified (Topaz): doubles lightning-elemental damage, halves water-elemental damage

Hot (Ruby): doubles fire-elemental damage, halves ice-elemental damage

Humid (Aquamarine): doubles water-elemental damage, halves fire-elemental damage

Lush (Emerald): doubles wood-elemental damage, halves wind-elemental damage

DISASTER

The Weather Mage’s Shield-skill depends on the current weather condition. If there is no current weather condition or it is not one of the nine basic weather conditions, the Weather Mage will instead spend 1 ether to change the weather for the remainder of the battle based on the chosen gem, starting from the following round.

Abyss (during a Dim weather): Causes darkness-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the sealed-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Avalanche (during a Cold weather): Causes ice-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the fragile-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Earthquake (during a Dry weather): Causes earth-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the stunned-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Flood (during a Humid weather): Causes water-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the slowed-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Inferno (during a Hot weather): Causes fire-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the weakened-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Kudzu (during a Lush weather): Causes wood-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the bound-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Sunflare (during a Bright weather): Causes light-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the blinded-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Thunderstorm (during an Electrified weather): Causes lightning-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the jinxed-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

Tornado (during a Breezy weather): Causes wind-elemental damage equal to the Weather Mage’s level and the confused-effect to all opponents at the cost of 1 ether.

[UsernameMDM]

I dig the weather mage!

[Waterbrick Down]

Weather Mage looks great, the mechanics are fresh enough that it feels like it's own class without stealing it's thunder from other roles. My only quibble would be with the Drafter artwork, they seem more like jesters than stylish mystical summoners of creatures from the beyond.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Waterbrick Down

[Kintobor]

Yeah, the Drafter characters aren't really what I'd envision. They look more like street performers than people obsessing over a card game to the point where they'd start causing they're cards to become summons. Why not play up the Pokemon parody? Have them look a little like Pokemon trainers, with crazy anime haircuts to coincide.

Weather Mage looks decent though.

[K-Nut]

Really liking the Weather Mage class. It's a nice twist with all the weather changes, but it fits nicely with Mage and Archmage. May have to look into getting Althior to be one.

[Sandy]

My only quibble would be with the Drafter artwork, they seem more like jesters than stylish mystical summoners of creatures from the beyond.

I was going with the (Las) Vega(s) flair, since that's where Decamon oriented. I can make a few options, though, but I'd like to keep the artwork separate from that of the Evoker.

Kintobor's suggestion with the anime looks might work, I'll give it a try.

[Flipz]

Mist is awesome. That is all.

[swils]

I definitely got a Yu-gi-oh vibe from Decamon. To that end...

http://static.zerochan.net/Yu-Gi-Oh%21.full.1231268.jpg (source, large)

And any of these heads to go with the spiky haired and/or colorful anime style:

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=15427pb01

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=53982

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=53981

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=bb197

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=62699pb02

Other than that aesthetic gripe, I love the sound of the weather mage.

[Waterbrick Down]

I definitely got a Yu-gi-oh vibe from Decamon. To that end...

http://static.zeroch...ull.1231268.jpg (source, large)

And any of these heads to go with the spiky haired and/or colorful anime style:

http://www.bricklink...asp?P=15427pb01

http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=53982

http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=53981

http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=bb197

http://www.bricklink...asp?P=62699pb02

Other than that aesthetic gripe, I love the sound of the weather mage.

Exactly.

Question about Mist, is it supposed to be the equivalent of making the monster Fragile, or is it seriously weak to all elements, i.e. if it was hit with a weapon that had 2 gems imbued in it, the monster would take x4 Damage?

[Cutcobra]

I love how the Weather Mage looks! I hope the requirement is not something impossible...

[Sandy]

Question about Mist, is it supposed to be the equivalent of making the monster Fragile, or is it seriously weak to all elements, i.e. if it was hit with a weapon that had 2 gems imbued in it, the monster would take x4 Damage?

The latter - seriously.

I guess I should change it to last only until the end of the current round, to avoid too much exploitation.

[Quarryman]

Hmm.. so how would a monster that's weak against all elements fare against Namyrra's Crystal Mace which is imbued with all elements? Are we seriously talking 512x (2 to the power of 9) damage in that case? (if so I love the Weather Mage even more )

[Emjajoas]

How does Mist interact with Ethereal enemies? Does it make them weak/susceptible to the elements?