Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Cutcobra]

Sandy, some time ago you said you were working on a "Demonologist" class. I don't know if you are still working on it, but here is what I think it could be:

DEMONOLOGIST

(Requirement: Not a book.)

These powerful conjurers are familiar with the dark and supernatural.

- Additional Health: +15

- Additional Ether: +4 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)

- Weapons: Demonologists do not use complex weapons. Instead they wield things such as staves, hammers, scythes, daggers, throwing weapons and clubs. They can also use scrolls.

- Job Traits: Demon Sacrifice: The Demonologist can spend a turn in battle or outside it to destroy one of their demons and restore health to himself or an ally for half the demon's level. Intimidate: The demons summoned by the Demonologist can instill fear with their gruesome appearance. Unholy: The Demonologist is familiar with other dark people and demons, gaining their favor. They are not favored by religious people, though. And their demons are automatically destroyed when they enter hallowed ground.

-Battle Style: Leeching - Demonologists can take life from their targets to compensate for their demon's side effects.

1. SHIELD: Malefaction - The demonologist conjures up a wave of pure wickedness from Hel itself. He deals damage equal to his level to all enemies and heals himself for all damage done. Also, if any demons attack, they do so without costing health. This attack costs 1 ether.

2. CRITICAL HIT/CRITICAL LEECH/GREATER INVOCATION - The demonologist attacks with strength equal to two times his weapon power added to his level (WP 15x2 + level 30 = 60 damage.). Instead of this, the demonologist leeches the target's life for half the damage from critical hit and gains health equal to the leech's damage. This costs one ether. Optionally, they can summon a greater demon at the cost of one health (See Demon Invocation.).

3. HIT/LEECH/INVOCATION - The demonologist attacks with strength equal to his weapon power added to his level (WP 15 + level 30 = 45 damage.). Instead of this, the demonologist leeches the target's life for half the damage from hit and gains health equal to the leech's damage.This costs one ether. Optionally, the demonologist summons a demon at the cost of one health (See Demon Invocation.).

4. MEDITATE/MOCK - The demonologist meditates for one ether. If the demonologist has a demon fighting by his side, the demon mocks the target causing either Enraged or Afraid to the target (Depending on row.).

5. DAMAGE/NO INVOCATION - The demonologist is struck by the opponent's attack. If it tried to summon a demon, it failed.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/HORRIBLE INVOCATION - The demonologist is struck by the opponent's attack. If they tried to summon a demon it failed, and they lose 1 health anyways.

DEMON INVOCATION:

A demonologist can choose to summon a demon instead of attacking. Their attack is Darkness elemental by default.

A greater demon has attack equal to the demonologist's level plus his weapon power. Every time it attacks, it costs the demonologist two health.

A normal demon has attack equal to the demonologist's level. Every time it attacks, it costs the demonologist one health.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cutcobra

[Waterbrick Down]

Jebediahs had a similar class here. While I like the idea of a class with a draining ability, between Evokers, Decamon Drafters, Sylvian Rangers, Necromancers, and potentially Dragoon's I think we may have enough summoning/pet classes.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Waterbrick Down

[Sandy]

Sandy, some time ago you said you were working on a "Demonologist" class. I don't know if you are still working on it, but here is what I think it could be:

Some nice ideas there, but I was thinking the Demonologist would be a fourth Master job class (or something for even higher levels, like Ultimate or Overpowered job class ), and for that purpose, your suggestion isn't powerful enough. I really like the idea of demons sucking health out of the demonologist instead of ether, though.

I still haven't set anything in stone for it, though.

[Cutcobra]

Jebediahs had a similar class here. While I like the idea of a class with a draining ability, between Evokers, Decamon Drafters, Sylvian Rangers, Necromancers, and potentially Dragoon's I think we may have enough summoning/pet classes.

I didn't see it. Thanks for your opinion.

Some nice ideas there, but I was thinking the Demonologist would be a fourth Master job class (or something for even higher levels, like Ultimate or Overpowered job class ), and for that purpose, your suggestion isn't powerful enough. I really like the idea of demons sucking health out of the demonologist instead of ether, though.

I still haven't set anything in stone for it, though.

Well, at least it's in your plans to make one. I'm glad to know since I really want one out there.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Avatar rip-off? Seems too niche to me and at the same time cliche.

Funny you should say that, as I've only seen one episode of avatar, ever.

It as intended as niche, and I'd be interested to know what you mean by "Cliche"? What part of it?

[Waterbrick Down]

Funny you should say that, as I've only seen one episode of avatar, ever.

It as intended as niche, and I'd be interested to know what you mean by "Cliche"? What part of it?

It's simply a mage that deals more damage than a normal one (albeit with limited elements). Aside from the shield skill, it doesn't strike me as anything special.

[UsernameMDM]

and I'd be interested to know what you mean by "Cliche"? What part of it?

The whole master of the '4 elements' thing.

How is your proposed class better than the Weather Mage?

And you should watch the rest of Avatar: the Last Airbender and Avatar: Legend of Korra.

Edited January 7, 2015 by UsernameMDM

[Waterbrick Down]

The whole master of the '4 elements' thing.

How is your proposed class better than the Weather Mage?

And you should watch the rest of Avatar: the Last Airbender and Avatar: Legend of Korra.

It doesn't necessarily need to be better, it obviously does a lot more damage output with the 4 elements, but if that's it's only gimmick is more damage output and not necessarily a new role in battle or a unique mechanic, then I'd like to see some more specialization.

[UsernameMDM]

It doesn't necessarily need to be better, it obviously does a lot more damage output with the 4 elements, but if that's it's only gimmick is more damage output and not necessarily a new role in battle or a unique mechanic, then I'd like to see some more specialization.

I meant better as in why would someone chose this class over the closest comparable class the Weather Mage.

[Waterbrick Down]

I meant better as in why would someone chose this class over the closest comparable class the Weather Mage.

And with that you have defined Class Creation. "Why should someone be interested in your custom designed class?" a good question for all class makers.

[UsernameMDM]

And with that you have defined Class Creation. "Why should someone be interested in your custom designed class?" a good question for all class makers.

Glad I could help.

[CMP]

Some nice ideas there, but I was thinking the Demonologist would be a fourth Master job class (or something for even higher levels, like Ultimate or Overpowered job class )

Since you're considering extra Master classes, here's a rough idea I've had for a while.

Think badass Minstrel.

Virtuoso

Cleric – barbarian– rogue

These heroic warrior-poets have mastered a wide range of skills.

· Additional Health: +20

· Additional Ether: +10

· Weapons: Virtuosos wield weapons suitable for clerics, barbarians and rogues, including scrolls and battle songs.

· Job Traits: Healing (See Cleric), Restoration (See Paragon), Gamble (See Rogue Thief), Battle Songs (See Minstrel), Know When to Run – Virtuosos can steal the drops of one enemy while fleeing battle, Regale – Virtuosos can whip up tales just about anyone will believe.

· Battle Style: Poetic: Virtuosos apply all their talents to fight poetic injustice.

1. SHIELD:

Deus Ex Machina:

The virtuoso revives all allies, removes all negative effects, and restores their entire party to full health at the cost of 1 ether. They then deal damage to all enemies equal to their level, added to their weapon power multiplied by the number of allies that had health restored. The virtuoso also gains gold equal to the number of allies healed times the number of enemies damaged.

2. EXTRA CRITICAL HIT/NURTURE MUCH MORE: The virtuoso deals damage equal to three times their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the virtuoso can remove negative effects and restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their extra critical hit, at the cost of 1 ether.

3. HIT/NURTURE: The virtuoso deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the virtuoso can remove negative effects and restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their hit, at the cost of 1 ether.

4. SWINDLE/NURTURE LESS: The virtuoso steals health, equal to twice the enemy’s level, plus the same amount of gold and ether if they have either. Alternatively, the virtuoso can remove negative effects and restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to their level, at the cost of 1 ether.

5. DAMAGE/NO HEAL: The virtuoso is struck by the opponent’s attack. Alternatively, any attempt of healing an ally fails.

6. SPECIAL GUARD/NO HEAL: The virtuoso is struck by the opponent’s special skill, but has a ½ chance to avoid any negative effects caused by it. Alternatively, any attempt of healing fails.

[Lind Whisperer]

I'm almost certain that the SHIELD is too powerful. Raising everyone to full health + removing all effects + a strong attack + gold stealing - that's a lot for a single round. I love the name Know When To Run, but even a single enemy can have some extremely good drops. Maybe change that to a1/2 / 1/3 chance of stealing? Either way, I'd definitely think about training this if it were released.

Perhaps this could be a level 60 class? I know we already have on player at 50+, and we'll probably have several more within the year. Maybe it's time to think beyond the Master Classes? This(in my humble opinion), is rather strong, even for a Master Class, but it's nearly perfect for a level 60+ class*.

*I suggest that the 60's classes be named the Opportunist Classes, the 70's being the Guardian Classes, the 80's being the Luminary Classes, the 90's being the Patron Classes, and the 100's being the Hero Classes**.

**Which will work just fine until players pass 100.

[Waterbrick Down]

I'm almost certain that the SHIELD is too powerful. Raising everyone to full health + removing all effects + a strong attack + gold stealing - that's a lot for a single round. I love the name Know When To Run, but even a single enemy can have some extremely good drops. Maybe change that to a1/2 / 1/3 chance of stealing? Either way, I'd definitely think about training this if it were released.

Prophet is just as powerful.

[CMP]

Its Shield's strength is totally dependent on whether or not allies are injured or not. It has the capacity to outshine Paragon's Shield fairly easily, but it must be under the right circumstances.

[Flipz]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing more Master Classes for different combinations of base classes (like Pie has done here with Clerics, Barbarians, and Rogues); Paragon is extremely Knightly, while Prophet is strongly Clerical and Mage-ical, so we could do with some stronger Barbarian, Rogue, and Ranger influences (with Virtuoso easily accomplishing two out of three). More specifically regarding Virtuoso, I do think that the Nurture aspect should go, since that only makes sense on Prophet due to the Ranger influence, but by the same token it should get Special Mirror and deal poison like Witch.

[CMP]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing more Master Classes for different combinations of base classes (like Pie has done here with Clerics, Barbarians, and Rogues); Paragon is extremely Knightly, while Prophet is strongly Clerical and Mage-ical, so we could do with some stronger Barbarian, Rogue, and Ranger influences (with Virtuoso easily accomplishing two out of three). More specifically regarding Virtuoso, I do think that the Nurture aspect should go, since that only makes sense on Prophet due to the Ranger influence, but by the same token it should get Special Mirror and deal poison like Witch.

That would make more sense. I only had Nurture because one of the Battle Songs provides party-wide healing already, I figured removing negative effects might be beneficial.

[UsernameMDM]

What about Advanced Advanced Classes: combo of 3 classes, or would that just get way to nuts?

[Bricksandparts]

What about Advanced Advanced Classes: combo of 3 classes, or would that just get way to nuts?

I believe there'd be 40 classes, although I calculated that fairly quickly and I think it's a larger number than it should be.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Bricksandparts

[Chromeknight]

I believe there'd be 41 classes, although I calculated that fairly quickly and I think it's a larger number than it should be.

Chose three from six, where order is unimportant.

C(6,3)= 6!/3!(6-3)!=(6x5x4x3x2x1)/(3x2x1)(3x2x1)=720/36=20

Edited January 8, 2015 by Chromeknight

[Kintobor]

I think the Advanced Classes are fine the way they are. Having three combined together just seems nuts, and it's basically the Master Classes but weaker.

[UsernameMDM]

Ha! That's what I thought: waaaay too much.

What about a boost to Advanced Classes at a certain level?

[Zepher]

I am not particularly excited to see the current Master classes in game - barring Mine they all strike me as far too powerful and near impossible to balance for. I do think heroes should be rewarded for their strong builds and hard work, but a class with all pluses and no downsides doesn't seem fun to me, both as a player and QM. I want to see them in practice first of course, but I'd like to see more built in negatives to go along with the absurd positives. In that vein, I can promise you I would never QM or play alongside a hero who can revive the whole party to full health, then damage all enemies, then make gold. That's like resetting the battle in the heroes favor, and giving them gold for it. What's the point at that point?

Again, I'm more than willing to see how they do, and theres already a prophet out there (and all three of the current Master Classes seem weaker than the Victuiso, which I'm particularly not loving [sorry Pie]) but I do hope they get de-buffed, or at the very least that I don't end up dealing with them.

And I do like the way that Truce seems like it could be both help and a hindrance. That's sort of the sort of roll I'd lobby for.

[Kintobor]

Ha! That's what I thought: waaaay too much.

What about a boost to Advanced Classes at a certain level?

Aren't there artefacts that do that? Why are we trying to fix something that isn't broken? Sure, some of the Expert classes need work, but the Advance classes have already been balanced. I see no need in trying to add to them.

Speaking of Expert Classes, what ever happened to Cavalier? I really liked the idea of that class.

[UsernameMDM]

They don't necessarily need fixing, just mulling the idea of Veteran Advanced Classes. Base classes didn't need to be fixed, yet we got the Veteran Classes...