Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Sandy]

Trying to think of a mix between an Evoker/Beast Warrior/Sylvan Ranger. Uses magic/elemental/animal spirits and an animal companion...Totem Chanter. Or something like that.

Umm, why? Those classes are all somewhat similar, so why would you need another one?

[UsernameMDM]

Umm, why? Those classes are all somewhat similar, so why would you need another one?

Why not? I have an idea, but it's not very fleshed out: Use magic, have a permanent animal companion and have were-beast abilities. This of course would be a level 50+ class.

Just toying around with the idea really.

[Waterbrick Down]

Brings to mind the Hybrid classes of D&D, my 8th Level Fighter/Ranger/Bard/Wizard/Druid Halfling Thief. Perhaps instead of looking at how can we combine combine classes and in essence their combat roles, we could look at what roles are missing or lacking? So excluding base classes.

High Damage (via favoring, elemental modifiers, self buffing, extra critical hits)

Raider

Battle Mage

Assassin

Hunter

Berserker

Shamaan

Chi Monk

Beast Warrior

Infiltrator

Weather Mage

Winged Warrior

Barbarian Chieftain

High Defense/Survival (via self buffing, hiding, Shield skill)

Paladin

Black Knight

Mystic Knight

Warden

Artisan

Regulator

Skirmisher

Guardian Knight

AoE attack/Crowd Control/Summon/Pet (ability to consistently hit multiple targets)

Evoker

Necromancer

Dragoon

Canooneer

Decamon Drafter

Marauder

Archmage

Sylvan Ranger

Support (Healing/Buffing)

Druid

Sage

Alchemist

Minstrel

High Cleric

Enemy Debuffer (Consistent Negative Statuses)

Witch

Sorcerer

Harlot

Scholar

Physical Based: 19 classes

Ether Based: 18 classes

Some interesting mechanics/roles that have been suggested or might be interesting to see:

An Enemy Debuffer version of the Minstrel

A Support class that transfers health from enemies

A Support/High SP class that absorbs hits for allies, similar to Skirmisher

A Support/High Damage class that does damage when allies are damaged

[UsernameMDM]

An Enemy Debuffer version of the Minstrel

A Support class that transfers health from enemies

Voodoo Chanter!

[Waterbrick Down]

Voodoo Chanter!

How would it stylistically distinguish itself from the witch?

[bionicle_fanatic]

How would it stylistically distinguish itself from the witch?

Maybe more like, a kinda Aztec design? [:P] I've never really met any voodoo changers though, so that might be well out XP

[UsernameMDM]

How would it stylistically distinguish itself from the witch?

THAT, indeed, is the question.

I wonder if Class 'Paths' would be an interesting thing: as a Witch either buff PCs or debuff enemies; as a Paladin either defend PCs or crush enemies. Maybe that is already covered though through the other classes...

[Kintobor]

Maybe that is already covered though through the other classes...

The Advanced Classes are already "paths" so to speak. You go from Rogue, to Rogue+Knight/Cleric/Mage/Barbarian/Ranger, etc. Include artefacts and there's really no need for paths when the game's design already has it from the get go.

[Lind Whisperer]

How would it stylistically distinguish itself from the witch?

I move for the 'Miko' class.

MIKO

These caring priests and priestesses use the power of their knowledge to heal the weak and defend the innocent.

- Additional Health: +6

- Additional Ether: +1 (+1 per level class without base ether)

- Weapons: Mikos, as bringers of peace, do not use complex weapons. Instead they wield things such as broomsticks, hammers, scythes, and staffs. They can also use scrolls.

- Job Traits: Omikuji: The Miko's skill in reading makes them able to cast scrolls without fail.

1. SHIELD: Ofuda - The Miko has a 50/50 chance of Cursing the enemy they are attacking, and a 25/75 chance of Cursing a random enemy.

2. CRITICAL HIT: Kuju-in - The Miko strips nine times one half their health from their enemy's health, and distributes it evenly among their party, dealing out 2 times their level plus their WP in damage to two randomly selected enemies.

3. HIT: Youma Taisan - The Miko lashes out in holy anger, dealing 3 times their level + WP to the enemy they are attacking. Their rage has a 50/50 chance of Confusing all enemies in terror at their furor.

4. TRANSFERENCE: Akuryō Taisan - The Miko's skill removes all negative effects from allies, with a 25/75 chance of transferring them to random enemies.(Depending on row.).

5. DARK PREMONITION - The Miko is rendered helpless for a turn by visions of their failing to win the battle. If they tried to cast a scroll, it failed.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE - The Miko is struck by the enemy attack.

This was just a rough draft of ideas for what the class could do, the attacks obviously would need some severe modification before it would be ready for play.

[UsernameMDM]

The Advanced Classes are already "paths" so to speak. You go from Rogue, to Rogue+Knight/Cleric/Mage/Barbarian/Ranger, etc. Include artefacts and there's really no need for paths when the game's design already has it from the get go.

Similar to what I was saying, but what if you could do the 'opposites' as stated above? Choose an offensive skill set over a defensive one.

[Waterbrick Down]

Similar to what I was saying, but what if you could do the 'opposites' as stated above? Choose an offensive skill set over a defensive one.

What would be the difference between choosing a class and then choosing either an offensive path vs a defensive one and just choosing an offensive class vs a defensive one?

[Kintobor]

Concerning Miko:

First off, I love the flavour. We don't have a lot of Eastern inspired classes, and this one's got a lot of potential.

Secondly, I think the class is a little too weak for an Expert... but also too powerful and incredibly complicated. Not enough ether, and not enough health, for starters, but the rolls are confusing. Just make 5 and 6 Damage and Special Damage. The success rolls are also way too powerful. Buff Ofuda. Cursing is pretty bad, but make it have a 1/2 chance on each opponent, and have it cost ether. If the class is mainly support/enemy de-buff (which it appears to be), the damage output shouldn't be so high. Also, it needs more Job Traits. I'm not to sure how much I like Omikuji, but it's not horrible if ether burn is built into the class (if you made each scroll cost twice the ether for success, I could buy it as viable and strategically interesting ).

There's potential here, it just needs some work.

Similar to what I was saying, but what if you could do the 'opposites' as stated above? Choose an offensive skill set over a defensive one.

What WBD said. Why do we need paths when there's classes that do it for us? If you want to play an offensive role, go for an offence class. If you want to play a defensive role, play a defensive class.

[UsernameMDM]

What would be the difference between choosing a class and then choosing either an offensive path vs a defensive one and just choosing an offensive class vs a defensive one?

Probably not much of a difference. Just thinking about the unfulfilled roles you listed and class paths in other RPGs.

[Sandy]

Thanks for the interesting list, WBD! It really helps to show how the classes divide into different roles, but looking at it we don't really seem to be lacking in any department, there being several options in all of the roles.

Some interesting mechanics/roles that have been suggested or might be interesting to see:

An Enemy Debuffer version of the Minstrel

A Support class that transfers health from enemies

A Support/High SP class that absorbs hits for allies, similar to Skirmisher

A Support/High Damage class that does damage when allies are damaged

1. QMs can easily add debuff battle songs for Minstrels. If there are several Minstrels around in the future, those extra songs would give them nice variety.

2. Umm, like Shaman?

3. Umm, like Warden?

4. Sounds complicated. Can you give me an example of what such a class would be like? Are there similar classes in other RPGs, for example?

[Lind Whisperer]

4. Sounds complicated. Can you give me an example of what such a class would be like? Are there similar classes in other RPGs, for example?

Maybe they could feel the others pain psychically, and lash out in response?

[Zepher]

I think Sandy meant more statistically. Guardian Knights also get a buff when the rest of their party is damaged, so I assume WBD means a similar thing to that, only offensive. Though I'm still of the opinion that most bases seem to be totally covered. Try different builds with different classes! Most people have at least 6 or 7 classes available to them by level 40, which is where the real long term players are about at right now, and they can't have possibly tried them all yet, so I don't think there's a reason to be bored at this point.

[Waterbrick Down]

Thanks for the interesting list, WBD! It really helps to show how the classes divide into different roles, but looking at it we don't really seem to be lacking in any department, there being several options in all of the roles.

1. QMs can easily add debuff battle songs for Minstrels. If there are several Minstrels around in the future, those extra songs would give them nice variety.

2. Umm, like Shaman?

3. Umm, like Warden?

4. Sounds complicated. Can you give me an example of what such a class would be like? Are there similar classes in other RPGs, for example?

1. Doable, just an idea if someone's looking for creating something different.

2. Shaman drains health but only on a SHIELD roll, I tried to organize the classes by how they function consistently. The Shaman isn't a consistent health drainer, though it might be interesting if it became one, sort of like how the Druid is similar to cleric but has it's own twist through nurturing.

3. Same as Shaman, Wardens absorb hits but not consistently. To have a specific role, one should be able to strategize around it with some certainty, i.e. barbarians can always be strategically depended upon to do more damage than other classes. Wardens can't be strategically depended upon to absorb hits.

4. I'm putting a class together right now actually.

[Myrddyn]

Objection, WBD! I see you've put Sage in the "Support" category, and Shaman in the "High damage" category. Despite Shaman's extra critical hits, it heals more than Sage, due to extra critical healing and fully healing the party on Shield rolls, and while the shield roll of a Shaman can potentially do more total damage than a Sage, this will only occur in very specific circumstances, most of the time a Sage's shield will deal more damage.

[Waterbrick Down]

Objection, WBD! I see you've put Sage in the "Support" category, and Shaman in the "High damage" category. Despite Shaman's extra critical hits, it heals more than Sage, due to extra critical healing and fully healing the party on Shield rolls, and while the shield roll of a Shaman can potentially do more total damage than a Sage, this will only occur in very specific circumstances, most of the time a Sage's shield will deal more damage.

Arguably Sage could go in either Support or High Damage, Shaman on the other hand falls into the High Damage because it can be consistently and strategically depended upon to deal a high amount of Damage, granted it could be argued that it consistently heals more other cleric based classes, but if we look at the way most players have played the class they tend to stick to offensive roles.

So as I mentioned, I've been working on a new class and I thought I'd present it:

Avenger

These holy warriors embody the justice of their deity dwelling upon this world.

· Additional Health: +15

· Weapons: Avengers often wield bladed two-handed weapons such as Longswords, Greatswords, Scythes, and Axes, they are also able to wield shields.

· Job Traits: Intimidation (See Black Knight), Devine Focus – Avenger’s WP doubles if they do not use a shield, Oath – After hitting a target the Avenger may swear an oath that grants them certain abilities

· Battle Style: Vindictive: Avengers fight in a manner so as to protect their allies and dole out punishment in the name of their deity.

1. SHIELD:

Supernal Smite:

The reality of the Avenger’s deity asserts itself in a terrifying display of power dealing damage to the target and the target of the Avenger’s current oath equal to four times the Avenger’s weapon power added to their level.

2. SUBDUING HIT: The Avenger deals damage equal to two times their weapon power added to their level, the target is also blinded during the next round. Additionally the Avenger may choose to swear an oath against the target.

3. HIT: The Avenger deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Additionally the Avenger may choose to swear an oath against the target.

4. SHIELD BASH/DREAD VISAGE: The Avenger fails to attack the target with their weapon, but instead bashes their shield at the enemy, causing damage equal to the power of their shield and stunning the enemy. If the Avenger is not using a shield the target becomes fragile from the Avenger’s holy anger. Additionally the Avenger may choose to swear an oath against the target.

5. DEFLECTED DAMAGE/Damage: The Avenger is struck by the opponent’s attack. The Avenger’s shield has a 1/6 chance of blocking the attack completely if they are using a shield.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The avenger is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Oaths:

After an Avenger strikes a target they may choose to swear an oath against their enemy. Only one oath may be sworn at a time. If the Avenger strikes a new target they may choose to end their previous oath and invoke a new one.

Oath of Protection: Whenever the targeted enemy would do damage to an ally the Avenger steps in and takes ½ the damage.

Oath of Retribution: Whenever the targeted enemy would do damage to an ally the Avenger steps in and deals a Free Hit equal to their Level.

Key Idea: Oaths, dual roles (offensive vs. defensive).

Design Notes: Going after a class whose mechanics and strategy are dependent upon the party make-up and their allies taking damage. Dependent upon their equipment and the oath they use they can either be geared towards damage output (double weapon power, Oath of Retribution, Dread Visage) or damage mitigation (high SP, Oath of Protection, and Shield Bash). The class is based upon a similar one found in D&D, but the idea of dealing damage or negating it when an ally is attacked is actually a trademark among defensive classes in RPG's.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Waterbrick Down

[Asphalt]

I can dig it, what would the pre-requisites be?

[swils]

Let's just replace Berserker with Avenger, heh.

[Zepher]

I like it a lot. Still don't know if we need more classes, but I definitely like that one.

[Waterbrick Down]

I can dig it, what would the pre-requisites be?

Probably the reward for certain religious orders, sort of like how the Rito can train Winged Warriors. So a character would be associated with a certain deity, i.e. an Avenger of Ennoc, or an Avenger of Tarok.

[Zepher]

I like that too. That'd be a super cool way to give rewards to certain characters within a quest, and could be very much based on RP and choices (much like the Weather Mage and Harlot). It would also give the different Avengers awesome different flavors without any difference to the class itself.

[Asphalt]

This class seems to be right up the alley I am wanting to walk Vindsval down. I wouldn't mind it getting approved. I wouldn't mind it at all.