Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Flipz]

I have vague general plans to hand out the Regulator class again at some point in my QMing career (there was going to be an option of it in 102 depending on how the heroes handled the Chaomancer) but I don't have specifics right now. I agree with Flipz that it must be earned, but I also agree with JimBee that it's a cool class that could use more players using it (Atramor is the only person to take me up on it so far).

Fair enough, it's just...I can imagine Skirmishers, or Alchemists, or even Dragoons as NPCs existing in the game world independent of the faction that normally grants them to Heroes (as the Skirmisher enemies in my Quest demonstrate). But for some reason the thought of a Regulator not connected to the Wren storyline feels somehow...wrong, you know? Like seeing an Infiltrator unconnected to the Town Watch, or a Winged Warrior unconnected to the Rito (although, granted, both could stand to be interacted with more often, and I think that the Town Watch should be handing out Infiltrator more often when they DO show up as well).

On a similar but separate note, I had a weird idea about Expert Classes--namely, if someone went on a Quest offering access to an Expert Class they already had. My thought was that, perhaps, in this situation the player could instead be offered the opportunity to train one other Hero in said class--just like if a Harlot obtained a second copy of Fifty Shades of Bley, they could give it to another player and thus grant that player access to the class. Obviously, it would be a per-QM decision, but I think that it could be a fair compromise in certain situations.

[Flare]

I'm also against gender oriented classes. I don't think that anyone should get more class choices just from their very initial roleplaying decision. Class choices should be opened from experiences made during quests, leveling up, choosing sides, etcetera. Why should female characters get a class for free? Its not as if we have to worry about injustice between the genders, this is a game after all. Plus, its not like any of the jobs are open to only male characters and closed to the female ones!

[Flipz]

I'm also against gender oriented classes. I don't think that anyone should get more class choices just from their very initial roleplaying decision. Class choices should be opened from experiences made during quests, leveling up, choosing sides, etcetera. Why should female characters get a class for free? Its not as if we have to worry about injustice between the genders, this is a game after all. Plus, its not like any of the jobs are open to only male characters and closed to the female ones!

The requirement would be more than just "be female", though, it would be "be female AND complete specific Quests for the Sisters of Danab".

Alternatively, the Quests that offer the class could restrict their entry requirements to females only, but that still doesn't account for the Mask of Gender Swap. (Perhaps a line somewhere in the Quest description stating that the Hero temporarily reverts back to their original class if they become male for any reason?)

[Sandy]

I'm also against gender oriented classes. I don't think that anyone should get more class choices just from their very initial roleplaying decision. Class choices should be opened from experiences made during quests, leveling up, choosing sides, etcetera. Why should female characters get a class for free? Its not as if we have to worry about injustice between the genders, this is a game after all. Plus, its not like any of the jobs are open to only male characters and closed to the female ones!

When I think about it, I don't think anyone would even want to play a class that can only heal and not cause damage (to non-undead enemies), so I'll just keep the class restricted to the NPCs.

I just finalized another NPC job class for #125, and boy is it fun!

[Chromeknight]

I'm also against gender oriented classes. I don't think that anyone should get more class choices just from their very initial roleplaying decision. Class choices should be opened from experiences made during quests, leveling up, choosing sides, etcetera. Why should female characters get a class for free? Its not as if we have to worry about injustice between the genders, this is a game after all. Plus, its not like any of the jobs are open to only male characters and closed to the female ones!

If there was no distinction between sexes*, we'd expect half of the Player Characters we see to be female, yes? There'd be no one caring if their character sex matched their own sex or not.

As it is, just as most players are male, the characters they play are male (and we won't go into human, teenaged, or rogue). If we'd like the Heroica world to be a bit more real, encouraging a higher number of female characters wouldn't hurt.

*sex refers to a biological reality (yes, I know a fuzzy term if speaking about characters existing in an electronically mediated RPG) and gender refers to the characteristics society or culture delineates as belonging to one or the other sex. I assume Sandy (and the Sisters of Danab) are making the distinction at the level of internal and external sex organs rather than mere behaviour.

[CMP]

When I think about it, I don't think anyone would even want to play a class that can only heal and not cause damage (to non-undead enemies), so I'll just keep the class restricted to the NPCs.

If it had some sort of buff/debuff abilities I think it'd be interesting.

[Flare]

As far as I know, most of the female characters are played by male people IRL. Endgame, Masked Builder, Kintobor, Psykater, Sandy, etc... I don't see any reason why female characters should be encouraged. Why don't we just let people roleplay the characters they want to play as and not influence it?

Edited January 11, 2015 by Flare

[Flipz]

As far as I know, most of the female characters are played by male people IRL. Endgame, Masked Builder, Kintobor, Psykater, Sandy, etc... I don't see any reason why female characters should be encouraged. Why don't we just let people roleplay the characters they want to play as and not influence it?

EDIT: moving discussion to General Discussion, link here.

EDIT 2: let's try that link again.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Flipz

[Cutcobra]

I know the discussion is over (Is it?) but I wouldn't mind gender-restricted classes, as long as they require something else to be it (like Flipz said). Although I would mind if there were, for example, 10 female classes and just 1 male one. That would certainly make me change my second character into a female, and I don't think that's the idea here (to enforce female characters).

And please don't make Harlot female only!

[UsernameMDM]

Does Heroica 'need' gender based classes?

Not against the idea at all, but IF we have gender specific classes, they would need to be extremely different from what is already offered. For example, for a female, how would an Amazon be any different from any of the Barbarian classes? How would a Temptress be different from the Harlot? How would a Priestess be different from any of the Cleric classes? Would there be mechanical differences or just flavor?

Would this lead to race based classes?

I'd like to see some proposed classes to see how it would work.

Edited January 11, 2015 by UsernameMDM

[Comrade Commander]

We already have a female exclusive race, so female specific classes would be fine with me.

Just so long as there isn't an over compensation, and the majority of classes remain gender neutral.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Comrade Commander

[CMP]

As I stated before, I personally don't think there's anything wrong with gender-specific classes, but it's just kind of pointlessly limiting an already-limited availability Expert Class even further.

[Palathadric]

I don't really have a problem with gender-specific classes. It's not like an all-female class is going to affect Pretzel (although if its a really great class I might complain ). If people want to spend their time coming up with gender-specific classes that's fine, but I don't think too many options for classes/items should be restricted by the character choice a person makes before even starting to play the game.

[Waterbrick Down]

I like the a Vindicator class (and the name). Despite the intended theme for it, I would definitely want to take Hybros down that path ( he's not really one to worship or swear oaths to any god, but of course that or the class can be flexible). I would really go either way on the choice of offense or defense. Some characters like Hybros are really offense-based and would benefit greatly from not using a shield, but on the other hand it's easy enough to equip a shield and have characters like Hoke absorb damage. I'd like to see more oaths added to the list, perhaps in a way similar to that of battle song acquisition.

I do remember CallMePie's class with the different "markers" from a while back, which the oaths reminded me of. If it's in the index or this topic at all, I'd like to go back and look at it.

One note about categorizing classes by their role in battle is that a class can fill many roles. For example, Chi Monk can debuff enemies with scrolls and buff themselves before dealing considerable damage. I feel that Witches and Alchemists are also sort of jack-of-all-trades classes.

There was discussion of marks a while back but it was deemed as to complex at the time. I'd be interested in artifacts that could impart a new oath, sort of like how Minstrels can learn new songs, but the more oaths you add the less the class is about changing between offense and defense. Updated some of the terms and added the additional oaths at higher levels concept. Any other thoughts?

[Asphalt]

I still like it. A good way for warrior defenders to go.

[KotZ]

That's a pretty nice class, WBD.

For gender based, I don't see the problem, unless there's a massive amount for just one gender. We do a have female specific item as well, the high heels.

[Asphalt]

Didn't it (vindicator/Avenger) used to have something in it about taking damage meant for another?

[UsernameMDM]

For gender based, I don't see the problem, unless there's a massive amount for just one gender. We do a have female specific item as well, the high heels.

And the Cat Suit & I think the Trickster Masks are gender/race specific.

[Zepher]

Didn't it (vindicator/Avenger) used to have something in it about taking damage meant for another?

It's in the oaths.

I like it, and I want to play as it.

[UsernameMDM]

SPEAKING of the Trickster Masks, would the gender-bender ones allow access to gender specific classes?

[Asphalt]

It's in the oaths.

I like it, and I want to play as it.

I thought it was part of his attack rolls. But yep, there it is. I hope it gets aproved.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Asphalt

[Waterbrick Down]

SPEAKING of the Trickster Masks, would the gender-bender ones allow access to gender specific classes?

They currently allow access to gender specific items, so why not? I don't see any issue with gender-specific classes as long as they fulfil their own unique combat role, I'm sort of with Pie in that you'll probably not see as many players picking the class just due to even more specific requirements than normal.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Waterbrick Down

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Vindicator is (so far) the only Non-Ether class I've been at all intrested in...

[Sandy]

There was discussion of marks a while back but it was deemed as to complex at the time. I'd be interested in artifacts that could impart a new oath, sort of like how Minstrels can learn new songs, but the more oaths you add the less the class is about changing between offense and defense. Updated some of the terms and added the additional oaths at higher levels concept. Any other thoughts?

Looks great - consider it approved! I personally don't have any quests in the plans that could offer it as a reward, but perhaps you do.

Btw, there's a few typos at least in the "Battle Style" sentence, besides it being in all italics: "protet" and punishmen".

[UsernameMDM]

So now who's going to detail out all of the religious orders/sect/factions?

And do I smell other religious order classes a-brewin'?