Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[The Chosen Minifigure]

I've been reading a lot of the Classic mystery books lately (mainly Sherlock, Poirot and Marple) and I thought (with my leetle grey cells) that a Detective would make a great class! After some deliberation, I settled on these basic things. Thoughts on OPness, UPness, or basically anything?

Detective

These competent investigators never miss a clue.

Additional Health: +6

Additional Ether: +7

Weapons: Investigators can use light weapons such as Daggers, Whips, and Hammers, as well as Throwing weapons. They can also utilise scrolls and gems.

Job Traits: Master Detective: The Detective can use a Magnifying glass as a weapon, with a WP equal to one third (rounded down) of the Detectives level. Photographic memory: Detectives can accurately remember any details of an image or document, and any scrolls they have seen during the quest they are currently on. Close inspection: Detectives can tell if someone is hiding in the room with them if they choose to inspect it.

1- Autopsy: The detective deals damage equal to three times it's weapon power added to it's level and the Confused, Afraid and Stunned effects to the target. They can also choose to imbue the attack with an element corresponding to a gem they own at the cost of one ether.

2- Little grey cells: The detective deals damage equal to two times it's weapon power added to it's level, and a 1/2 chance to deal the Confused effect to the target. They can also choose to imbue the attack with an element corresponding to a gem they own at the cost of one ether.

3- Observe: The detective deals damage to the target equal to it's weapon power added to its level, and has a 1/6 chance to deal the Afraid effect to the target. They can also choose to imbue the attack with an element corresponding to a gem they own at the cost of one ether.

4- Red Herring: Nothing Happens.

5- Damage: The Detective is hit by the targets attack.

6- Late analysis: The detective is struck with the targets special skill, but has a 1/2 chance to deflect it if they own a magnifying glass.

[LordoftheNoobs]

I quite like it, but I can't really say whether or not it has any balance issues myself. I know what I like though!

[Flipz]

I'd take out the elemental spellcasting, as it doesn't really seem like a blasty-mage sort of class. I'd also make the effects guaranteed, rather than making the QM roll yet another thing.

That said, I'm not sure we really need something like this as a player class. It'd be a fantastic NPC class, but it seems overly focused and underpowered for player use. Just my two cents, though.

[LordoftheNoobs]

I agree, but it could maybe be suitable as a Town Watch-given class. I know that Infiltrator already is one, but still, I reckon it'd fit well enough.

But yeah, maybe get rid of the spell-casting and add one or two other things that power it up and make it a bit more unique.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

To be honest, I just added spellcasting so that ethers would have a use other than scrolls.

I actually have a couple of unique ideas for ether floating around. I'll see what I can do to improve it.

Idea #1:

New job trait- Boast: The Detective can also choose to make a boast in a turn in which it uses a scroll or consumable.

Boast: The Detective can, in addition to using a scroll or consumable, make one of the following boasts at the cost of 3 ether:

Boast of Experience: 1/2 chance to cause the jinxed effect to a target.

Boast of Lies: 1/2 chance of dealing the Confused effect to target.

Boast of Solved case: 1/2 chance to deal the afraid effect to the target.

Boring Boast: 1/2 chance to cause the asleep effect to a target.

Idea 2: New job trait: Recover Valuables: Instead of attacking, the Detective can spend a turn to steal all gems or artefacts that could be considered "valuables" from the target, providing that the target has no SP.

Edited January 19, 2015 by The Chosen Minifigure

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Idea #3- New job trait: Observation.

The Detective can spend 3 ether to teach a target some basic observation skills, making them *Lucky* until another positive effect is applied.

Idea #4- On a miss, the detective becomes *Observant*, making all effects guaranteed to be applied for the next 5 turns, or the Detective is affected with a negative effect.

Thoughts?

[Lind Whisperer]

Idea #3- New job trait: Observation.

The Detective can spend 3 ether to teach a target some basic observation skills, making them *Lucky* until another positive effect is applied.

Idea #4- On a miss, the detective becomes *Observant*, making all effects guaranteed to be applied for the next 5 turns, or the Detective is affected with a negative effect.

Thoughts?

I definitely like your ideas here, but I'm not sure whether or not three ether is too high a price.

[LordoftheNoobs]

I really like idea 4 especially.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

I've rigged up a little poll for the ideas.

http://poll.fm/54ceg

Edited January 22, 2015 by The Chosen Minifigure

[Comrade Commander]

I like the detective construct, but agree the spellcasting/scrolls part doesn't seem to really fit in.

That being said, I like how you started to turn "ether" into "mind power" with some of your traits.

It would be a good NPC class for sure, and could be a good PC class as well to roleplay as "good" person for those who might track into assassin.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Yeah, the spellcasting is gone. I'm keeping the scrolls since it's a Detective-y thing to study. Plus, the reason all the Boasts and stuff like that are 3 ether is so scrolls are still useful, costing 1/3 of the ether. I did that so it wouldn't be like "Hah hah, I don't need puny scrolls! I can just boast! Hah!"

[Waterbrick Down]

So what role would the investigator play? Seems like an enemy debuffer, in which case it'll have to compete against Scholar and Minstrel.

Boasts get outranked by Minstrel and Scholar pretty easily. Without a way to flee, stealing valuables from an enemy wouldn't make sense since the party will get them at the end of the battle anyways. Concerning Observvation, Lucky Chant applies the Lucky affect to the whole Party at the same ether cost. Could you expand on your 4th idea?

[Cutcobra]

I've been thinking of a gladiator type class were the hero would have a different effect depending on which type of weapon they are using. The requirement could also be something like "Win X amount of times in the Arena.". What do you guys think?

Edited January 22, 2015 by Cutcobra

[Waterbrick Down]

Different effect such as Hastened, Encouraged, Lucky, etc?

[Cutcobra]

Different effect such as Hastened, Encouraged, Lucky, etc?

Yes. Maybe even Nimble and Inspired. They can't change targets though, like the barbarian.

[Asphalt]

Sounds interesting.

[Cutcobra]

Okay, here goes.

NOTE 1: I didn't know how to name roll 2 and 3 other than furious, but my point was that the gladiator cannot change targets. Any better words for it?

NOTE 2: Is gladiating even a word.

NOTE 3: Sorry if I used too many "entertain" and "challenge" words.

GLADIATOR

These entertaining champions do it for the fame and the glory.

Additional Health: +3

Weapons: The gladiator use fighting weapons that benefit them in battle like greatswords, longswords, lances, axes and halberds.

Job Traits: Fame: Gladiators have an appealing personality, making them have a way with words. Glory: Whenever the gladiator kills an enemy, it gains gold equal to the enemy's level. Challenger: When a fight begins, the gladiator can choose to not be able to use any consumables for the duration of the battle. If the battle ends and the gladiator is still alive, it gains double experience.

Battle Style: Entertainer: The gladiator specifically uses his weapons to give a good to show.

1. SHIELD: Are you not entertained? - The gladiator amazes the party with it's moves, giving them all the effect his weapon boosts for the next 3 rounds. In addition, he attacks the target equal to four times their weapon power added to their level (15WP x 4 + level 30 = 90 damage)

2. CRITICAL FURIOUS HIT - The gladiator attacks their target equal to two times their weapon power added to their level (15WP x 2 + level 30 = 60 damage). The gladiator cannot change targets until the chosen target is defeated.

3. FURIOUS HIT - The gladiator attacks their target equal to their weapon power added to their level (15WP + level 30 = 45 damage). The gladiator cannot change targets until the chosen target is defeated.

4. TAUNT - The gladiator taunts their chosen target, causing the Enraged effect.

5. DAMAGE - The gladiator is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL DODGE - The gladiator has a 1/2 chance to dodge the opponent's special skill so that it hits the next ally in turn instead, unless the skill hits everybody.

GLADIATING:

The gladiator focuses on entertaining his crowd while fighting, making quite a show with his weapons.

Greatsword - The heavy greatsword gives the gladiator a bit of a challenge, making the gladiator Encouraged to do better.

Lance - The flexibilty in the use of a lance makes the gladiator Nimble.

Axe - The gladiator can make quick use of an axe, making the gladiator Hastened.

Halberd - The halberd is a good way to entertain whilist in battle, making the gladiator Inspired to keep on putting a good show.

Longsword - The easy use of the longsword makes the gladiator Lucky with his fights.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

So what role would the investigator play? Seems like an enemy debuffer, in which case it'll have to compete against Scholar and Minstrel.

Boasts get outranked by Minstrel and Scholar pretty easily. Without a way to flee, stealing valuables from an enemy wouldn't make sense since the party will get them at the end of the battle anyways. Concerning Observvation, Lucky Chant applies the Lucky affect to the whole Party at the same ether cost. Could you expand on your 4th idea?

#1- Yes, I think I'll elaborate on the boasts.

#2- Yeah, that idea wasn't that great.

#3- Maybe a change. How about

Lecture on observation: The Detective can take a turn to explain observation to the party, making the party *Lucky* until it is struck by a negative effect at the cost of 1 ether per person.

#4- I don't understand how to elaborate. I'd replace the -Red Herring- roll with this:

4- Red Herring: The Detective realises he's been tricked, and becomes *Observant* for 5 rounds, making all rolls for effects guaranteed. The effect ends if the Detective is struck by a negative effect.

[Asphalt]

Gladiator seems a bit overpowered to me.

[Flipz]

I actually like Gladiator, but each of the weapon effects should also come with a disadvantage (i.e. have the Greatsword grant Lucky due to its impressive and intimidating size, but also Slowed due to its heft; similarly, you could have the Longsword grant Encouraged due to its ease of use but Fragile due to difficulty parrying [or whatever reason, I'm not terribly educated on the advantages and disadvantages of medieval weaponry, that's more Brickdoctor's department ]; maybe have the Lance grant Nimble for the reasons you gave, but also Weakened due to the focus on its defensive use). Do that, and maybe up the HP bonus a little (the average is floating around 11.66 at the moment, so maybe give it 5-6 health since the positive effects are a pretty big advantage), and I think it could work well.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

The reveamped version of Detective:

Detective

These competent investigators never miss a clue.

Additional Health: +6

Additional Ether: +7

Weapons: Investigators can use light weapons such as Daggers, Whips, and Hammers, as well as Throwing weapons and Slaves. They can also utilise scrolls and gems.

Job Traits: Master Detective: The Detective can use a Magnifying glass as a weapon, with a WP equal to one third (rounded down) of the Detectives level. Photographic memory: Detectives can accurately remember any details of an image or document, and any scrolls they have seen during the quest they are currently on. Close inspection: Detectives can tell if someone is hiding in the room with them if they choose to inspect it. Observational lecture: The Detective can take a turn to explain observation to the party, making the party *Lucky* until it is struck by a negative effect at the cost of 2 ether per person.

1- Autopsy: The detective deals damage equal to three times it's weapon power added to it's level and the Confused, Afraid and Stunned effects to the target.

2- Elementary: The detective deals damage equal to two times it's weapon power added to it's level, and a 1/2 chance to deal the Confused effect to the target.

3- Little grey cells: The detective deals damage to the target equal to it's weapon power added to its level, and has a 1/6 chance to deal the Afraid effect to the target.

4- Red Herring: The Detective realises he's been tricked, and becomes *Observant* for 5 rounds, making all effects for rolls guaranteed. The effect ends if the Detective is struck by a negative effect.

5- Damage: The Detective is hit by the targets attack.

6- Late analysis: The detective is struck with the targets special skill, but has a 1/2 chance to deflect it if they own a magnifying glass.

Edited January 23, 2015 by The Chosen Minifigure

[Chromeknight]

"As well as throwing weapons and slaves"

Slaves is not a weapon type.

"They can also utilise scrolls and gems"

Detective is not a spell casting class now.

Photographic Memory job trait.

Does this mean a Detective can use a scroll in another player's inventory if they have 'seen' it? Or seen a scroll in a shop?

Autopsy (and little grey cells) why afraid rather than weakened? Aside from 'flavour'? Afraid also means the whole party (except ranged weapon users) will deal half damage to the enemy for the rest of the battle.

Autopsy. Why confused and stunned? aside from flavour? Confused means next hit (damage, special damage, free hit) is directed

at an ally, stunned means next hit is lost. Confused makes stunned redundant.

Red herring. Does *observant* apply to scroll use?

Close inspection job trait. Might seem fun on paper, but in real play it will go like this.

Detective enters room. Checks for hiders QM says no hiders. Move on.

Detective enters another room. Checks for hiders QM says no hiders. Move on.

Detective enters outside. Checks for hiders QM says no hiders. Move on.

Detective enters field. Checks for hiders QM says no hiders. Move on.

...

Repeat several iteratons.

Detective enters another room. No longer bothers to check for hiders.

...

Detective enters barracks room. No longer bothers to check for hiders. Enemy leaps out of hiding. Detective kicks self for missing chance to use job trait that had been useless until then.

Job traits. Expert , Veteran and Advanced classes have three job traits, not four.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

MEGA-SNIP!

1- Staves, not slaves.

2- Whoops!

3- Yes, if they have seen it in an inventory they can use it.

4- Good point. I'll change it.

5- After the attack: Turn 1- miss hit. Turn 2/3- 1/2 chance to attack other enemy.

6- No. I'll clarify it, but it only affects the main roll.

7/8- Solved, I'll remove close observation.

Edited January 23, 2015 by The Chosen Minifigure

[Cutcobra]

I actually like Gladiator, but each of the weapon effects should also come with a disadvantage (i.e. have the Greatsword grant Lucky due to its impressive and intimidating size, but also Slowed due to its heft; similarly, you could have the Longsword grant Encouraged due to its ease of use but Fragile due to difficulty parrying [or whatever reason, I'm not terribly educated on the advantages and disadvantages of medieval weaponry, that's more Brickdoctor's department ]; maybe have the Lance grant Nimble for the reasons you gave, but also Weakened due to the focus on its defensive use). Do that, and maybe up the HP bonus a little (the average is floating around 11.66 at the moment, so maybe give it 5-6 health since the positive effects are a pretty big advantage), and I think it could work well.

Thanks for the ideas! I made two alternatives, one is having a chance to miss and the other is having a buff/debuff like you said. I also made it so the Gladiator can choose to use gladiating whenever it wants.

GLADIATING:

The gladiator can choose to focus on entertaining his crowd while fighting, making quite a show with his weapons but having a 2/6 chance to miss with each hit.

Greatsword - The heavy greatsword gives the gladiator a bit of a challenge, making the gladiator Encouraged to do better.

Lance - The flexibilty in the use of a lance makes the gladiator Nimble.

Axe - The gladiator can make quick use of an axe, making the gladiator Hastened.

Halberd - The halberd is a good way to entertain whilist in battle, making the gladiator Inspired to keep on putting a good show.

Longsword - The easy use of the longsword makes the gladiator Lucky with his fights.

OR

GLADIATING:

The gladiator can choose to focus on entertaining his crowd while fighting, making quite a show with his weapons but with some drawbacks.

Greatsword - The heavy greatsword gives the gladiator a bit of a challenge, making the gladiator Encouraged to do better but Slowed due to it's heaviness.

Lance - The flexibilty in the use of a lance makes the gladiator Nimble but at the same time Weakened due to it's defensive focus.

Axe - The gladiator can make quick use of an axe, giving the gladiator the Hastened effect but at the cost of precision, making the gladiator have a 1/3 chance to miss with each hit.

Longsword - The easy use of the longsword makes the gladiator Lucky with his fights but Fragile due to it's difficult use to parry.

For the buff/debuff version I decided to remove the Halberd as a weapon option since I couldn't come up with a good counter to it.

[Waterbrick Down]

I'd say the second is the better of the two as it involves less dice rolling. A few additional thoughts:

Job Traits: Fame: Use Diplomacy or Intimidate, we've already have job traits for this effect. Glory: Good, but maybe Money-maker would be sufficient to avoid a brand new trait. Challenger: New mechanics (i.e. Gladiating) are generally dictated in a trait (see Spellcasting, Battle Songs, Oaths, etc.) So maybe a description like: A Gladiator's skills are affected by which weapons they are currently using.

Rolls: Furious Hit: I'm not the biggest fan of the roll since it limits the strategy of the class since you're locked in to a target until it goes down, but I can see it helping to balance the class out. Taunt: Enraged generally isn't a big deal for enemies as they almost always are considered to be fighting from the front row. Perhaps Dirty Fighting from Infiltrator or maybe Counter?

Gladiating: Concerning the different pairs of effects, I'd also include some way for the current effects imbued by the weapons to over-ride the immunities of artifacts (slowed for example is really easy to cure and I don't think a pair of Winged Sandals is enough to offset the balance of permanent encouraged). Now onto ideas for pairs:

Encouraged & Slowed: Good

Hastened & Easier to miss: Why not just use Jinxed?

Nimble & Weakened: Good

Lucky & Fragile: Good

Reinforced & ?: This is really the only positive effect left aside from Inspired which would be a little too good (can serve as an auto heal), I can't really see people choosing Reinforced over Nimble so perhaps it's counter effect shouldn't be too bad.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Waterbrick Down