Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[TheBoyWonder]

.

Of course someone with a character named Lycan would...

You have hit the nail on the head.

[Sandy]

EDIT: I noticed that the Chi Monk has both Iron Fist and Spellcasting. Essentially, aren't these the same thing? Plus Chi Monks can't cast spells in battle, so maybe spellcasting could be changed to something else? Just my two cents.

Good catch. I'll change "spellcasting" to "natural respite".

And as for the alchemists, they no longer have ether so they cannot use "healing" either. I'll think of an alternative. The discount idea is great, since they really depend on consumables now.

Thanks for the valuable feedback!

[UsernameMDM]

[quote name=JimButcher' date='11 June 2012 - 12:48 PM'

timestamp='1339433291' post='1308735]

Username MDM: I do like that class, but there are a few changes I would

make.

First off, thanks for the feedback.

- Being immune to earth-based attacks is pretty pointless, IMO.

Enemies usually don't have elemental attacks, and when they do a QM would

probably find a way around using earth moves.

I need to reword this. I meant it to mean the Boulder Bombardier is

immune to attacks from earth based enemies. Make sense now?

- Eureka seems under-powered and uncharacteristic to me. Classes

like the Assassin and Raider can do the same thing, but better. I would

suggest changing this somehow.

I agree. I was trying to figure out a way to get more gold for bombs. But

having a lot of bombs may overpower the class because of the Go BOOM! job

trait. How about this to replace it:

Smoke Screen: The Boulder Bombardier unleashes a thick cloud of smoke

from his explosive stores causing the BLINDNESS effect on enemies for 3

rounds.

Or should I keep a damage dealing SHIELD roll?

- Your wording on "enemy targets" is a little confusing. Do these

attack affect all enemies in battle, or just the enemy targeted for that

roll?

Enemies targeted for that roll. But CRITICAL HIT - Dynamite! hits all

enemies.

I do like the Booby Trap move, though.

Thanks. I think it worked well for as a defensive tool.

Anymore C&C from anyone else?

Thanks.

[Sandy]

Necromancer's "Raise the Undead" was nerfed so that any effect that renders the necromancer incapable of taking action dissipates the undead army. The "amplified"-effect now includes healing as well, and the "special guard" was changed to "special damage".

The Alchemist now gets a discount from Portia, as well as an ability to create gold with "chrysopoeia" instead of "poison badly". The worst mixture, "explosion", was changed as well so that it now knocks out the alchemist but leaves other party members unharmed.

The Beast Warrior's "animal talk" is extended into "animalism", allowing them to assume their beast form outside of battle as well (encouraging roleplay). The class's "steal" was changed to "aim" since the class does not benefit much from gold, and the Beast Form's shield-skill has been boosted as well (giving it the maximum damage dealing potential of a whopping 540 damage at Level 30).

Here are the updated descriptions:

Great reputation among the Ziegfrieds:

Necromancer – These corrupt mages hold reign over death.

• Additional Health: +5

• Additional Ether: +5 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)

• Weapons: Necromancers use various imposing and magical weapons in battle, such as broomsticks, greatswords, maces, scythes, staves, wands and whips. They can also use gems and scrolls.

• Job Traits: Healing (see Cleric); Spellcasting (see Mage); Spiritism – The necromancer can communicate with the spirits of the deceased to gain information.

• Battle Style: Death-defying – Necromancers can raise an army of undead corpses.

1. SHIELD:

Raise The Undead

– The necromancer summons the corpses of all fallen enemies to join their side in battle. The undead keep the level of the original enemy, but they can only attack with darkness-elemental attacks with strength equal to their level once per round as commanded by the necromancer. Each undead attack costs 1 ether to the necromancer. The undead cannot be damaged and once raised they will follow the necromancer from battle to battle, but if the necromancer is knocked out or inflicted with an effect that prevents taking action, all the undead will disappear. The undead will automatically disappear at the end of each quest.

2. AMPLIFIED HIT/AMPLIFIED SPELL/AMPLIFIED HEAL: The necromancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power multiplied by the amount of undead raised and added to their level. Instead of attacking or casting a spell, the necromancer can spend 1 ether to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their amplified attack. (e.g. WP 15 x 3 undead raised + Level 30 = 75 (elemental) damage or restore 75 health)

3. HIT/SPELL/HEAL: The necromancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. Instead of attacking, the necromancer can spend 1 ether to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their attack. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 = 45 (elemental) damage or restore 45 health)

4. MEDITATE/HEAL LESS: The necromancer meditates to regain 1 ether. Instead of meditating, the necromancer can spend 1 ether to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to their level.

5. DAMAGE/NO HEALING: The necromancer is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/NO HEALING: The necromancer is struck by the opponent’s special skill. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails.

Great reputation among the Bonapartes:

Cannoneer – These bombardiers can shower enemies with explosives.

• Additional Health: +10

• Weapons: Cannoneers can only wield hand cannons but they also benefit from a hefty supply of bombs.

• Job Traits: Intimidation (see Berserker/Black Knight); Track Down (see Hunter/Assassin); Blast Through – The cannoneer can break through any obstacle at the cost of one bomb.

• Battle Style: Bombarding – Cannoneers can load their weapons with bombs to cause elemental damage to all enemies.

1. SHIELD:

Barrage

– The cannoneer picks three bombs randomly from their stock and fires them at the opponents, causing elemental damage to all enemies equal to their weapon power added to their level with each hit. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 + Bomb = 45 elemental damage to all enemies per hit) The bombs are consumed. If the cannoneer has less than three bombs in stock, they will cause normal damage to the targeted enemy with the remaining hits.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT BOMBARD: The cannoneer attacks with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 2 + Level 30 = 60 damage) Optionally, the cannoneer can load their cannon with a bomb, causing elemental damage to all enemies equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 2 + Level 30 + Bomb = 60 elemental damage to all enemies) The bomb is consumed.

3. HIT/BOMBARD: The cannoneer attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 = 45 damage) Optionally, the cannoneer can load their cannon with a bomb, causing elemental damage to all enemies equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 + Bomb = 45 elemental damage to all enemies) The bomb is consumed.

4. CRAFT BOMB: The cannoneer creates a random bomb from the left-over powder in their hand-cannon. The bomb is added to their inventory.

5. DAMAGE: The cannoneer is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The cannoneer is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Great reputation among the Guild of Invision:

Alchemist – These scientists can use and create items at whim.

• Additional Health: +10

• Weapons: Alchemists can wield various cutting and crushing weapons in battle, including axes, clubs, daggers, hammers, maces and scythes.

• Job Traits: Flee (see Rogue); Instant Items – The alchemist can use one item per turn while still being able to attack as well; Perquisite – The alchemist gets a 50% discount (rounded up) from Portia’s Potion Shack at the Marketplace.

• Battle Style: Experimental – Alchemists concoct special items for battle.

1. SHIELD:

Mixture

– The alchemist mixes random ingredients together and creates surprising new items (See the List of Mixtures for reference).

2. CRITICAL HIT: The alchemist attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 2 + Level 30 = 60 damage)

3. HIT: The alchemist attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 = 45 damage)

4. CHRYSOPOEIA: The alchemist turns scrap metal into gold, earning gold equal to their own level.

5. DAMAGE: The alchemist is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails.

6. SPECIAL GUARD: The alchemist is struck by the opponent’s special skill, but has a 50/50 chance to be protected from any negative effects caused by it.

List of Mixtures:

The outcome of the alchemist’s mixture is determined by rolling a die twice. The created item is added to the alchemist’s inventory. With the lucky-effect, the die is rolled four times, and the highest two results determine the mixture.

1+1:

Explosion

(instant effect) – knocks out the alchemist.

1+2:

Diluted Arc Potion

– Restores 15 to all allies.

1+3:

Diluted Arc Tonic

– Restores 10 ether to all allies.

1+4:

Purging Water

– Removes all positive effects from all enemies.

1+5:

Bad Breath

– Causes the poisoned-effect to all enemies.

1+6:

Last Resort

– Revives all knocked out allies with 1 health.

2+2:

Arc Potion

– Restores 30 health to all allies.

2+3:

Arc Elixir

– Restores 60 health and 15 ether to all allies and removes negative effects.

2+4:

Bravado Brew

– Causes the encouraged-effect to all allies.

2+5:

Fog Bomb

– Causes 15 damage and the blinded-effect to all enemies

2+6:

Hyper Arc Potion

– Restores full health to all allies.

3+3:

Arc Tonic

– Restores 20 ether to all allies.

3+4:

Cloud of Celerity

– Causes the hastened effect to all allies.

3+5:

Mystic Bomb

– Causes 15 damage and the sealed-effect to all enemies.

3+6:

Hyper Arc Tonic

– Restores full ether to all allies.

4+4:

Purifying Water

– Removes all negative effects from all allies.

4+5:

Fortune Flush

– Causes the lucky-effect to all allies.

4+6:

Smile of the Gods

– Causes the blessed-effect to all allies.

5+5:

Wyvern’s Breath

– Causes the badly poisoned–effect to all enemies.

5+6:

Cluster Bomb

– Causes 30 damage to all enemies.

6+6:

Doomsday Bomb

– Causes 99 damage to all enemies.

Great reputation among the Ji Pei:

Chi Monk – These martial artists use only their body and mind to fight and recover.

• Additional Health: +12

• Additional Ether: +3 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)

• Weapons: Chi monks do not wield any weapons, but they can use gems and scrolls.

• Job Traits: Natural Respite (see Barbarian); Healing (see Cleric); Iron Fist – The chi monk can break through any obstacle at the cost of 1 ether.

• Battle Style: Martial – Chi Monks attack with their bare fists and feet.

1. SHIELD:

Chakra

– The chi monk focuses inner energy to recover full health and ether and remove all negative effects. The chi monk is then bestowed by the blessed-effect, recovering 3 health at the end of each round. On subsequent rolls of Chakra, the chi monk receives one additional positive effect in the following order: hastened, lucky, encouraged.

2. CRITICAL MARTIAL HIT/HEAL MORE: The chi monk attacks the target with strength equal to three times their level. They can spend 1 ether to imbue the attack with an element available to them. Instead of attacking, the chi monk can spend 1 ether to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their critical attack. (e.g. Level 30 x 3 = 90 (elemental) damage or restore 90 health)

3. MARTIAL HIT/HEAL: The chi monk attacks the target with strength equal to two times their level. They can spend 1 ether to imbue the attack with an element available to them. Instead of attacking, the chi monk can spend 1 ether to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their attack. (e.g. Level 30 x 2 = 60 (elemental) damage or restore 60 health)

4. MARTIAL COUNTER/HEAL LESS: The chi monk is struck by the opponent’s attack but attacks right back at the enemy with strength equal to their level. They can spend 1 ether to imbue the attack with an element available to them. Instead of attacking, the chi monk can spend 1 ether to restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their level. (e.g. Level 30 = 30 (elemental) damage or restore 30 health)

5. DAMAGE/NO HEALING: The chi monk is struck by the opponent’s attack. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails.

6. SPECIAL GUARD/NO HEALING: The chi monk is struck by the opponent’s special skill, , but has a 50/50 chance to be protected from any negative effects caused by it. Optionally, any attempt of healing fails.

Great reputation among the Wolfgang:

Beast Warrior – These savage fighters are connected to their bestial side.

• Additional Health: +15

• Weapons: Beast Warriors utilize both ravaging and ranged weapons, including axes, bows, clubs, crossbows, greatswords, longswords, throwing weapons and whips.

• Job Traits: Natural Respite (see Barbarian); Track Down (see Hunter/Assassin); Animalism – The beast warrior can freely assume their beast form outside of battle, allowing them to pass as the animal and talk to other animals as well.

• Battle Style: Animalistic – Beast Warriors can transform into raving beasts.

1. SHIELD:

Beast Form

– The beast warrior transforms into their familiar beast’s form, fighting in that style until either “SHIELD” or “REVERT” is rolled, the battle ends or they are knocked out (See

Beast Form

).

2. EXTRA CRITICAL HIT: The beast warrior attacks with strength equal to three times their weapon power added with their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 3 + Level 30 = 75 damage)

3. HIT: The beast warrior attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added with their level. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 = 45 damage)

4. AIM: The beast warrior steals gold equal to the target’s level.

5. DAMAGE: The beast warrior is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DODGE: The beast warrior has a 50/50 chance to dodge the opponent’s special skill so that it hits the next ally in turn instead, unless the skill hits everybody.

Beast Form:

When initiated into the job class, the Beast Warriors are given the ability to transform into a raving beast in the heat of the battle. The beast can be whatever suits their personality the best, even a bird or a reptile. Beasts cannot wield weapons so they do not benefit from the equipped weapon’s effects.

1. SHIELD:

Beast Unleashed

– The beast charges ferociously at the target with all of its might. A die roll determines how many times the beast strikes with strength equal to three times their level. (e.g. Level 30 x 3 = 90 damage per hit (1-6 hits)) The beast then reverts back to its humanoid form.

2. MASSACRE: The beast attacks all enemies with strength equal to two times their level. (e.g. Level 30 x 2 = 60 damage to all enemies)

3. BITE: The beast chews the target with strength equal to their level and regains an equal amount of health. (e.g. Level 30 = 30 damage and restore 30 health to self)

4. COUNTER: The beast is struck by the opponent’s attack but attacks right back at the enemy with strength equal to their level.

5. DAMAGE: The beast is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. REVERT: The beast reverts back to its humanoid form.

[CMP]

Alchemist looks a lot more balanced now, although the lack of any interesting rolls outside of CHRYSOPOIEA (which I think should be renamed TRANSMUTE, for simplicity ) is a little off-putting. I love the whole 50% consumable discount, though, it makes up for it a hundred fold.

I'm glad Necromancer's been fixed, too, though I think healing is a little bit overkill.

[Scubacarrot]

Okay, I'm telling you now, Alchemist is what I want to play as, I think it fits great within Guts's roleplay, and I think it is one of the more fun expert classes so far too, I think.

@UsernameMDM, I would not make your class immune to a type of enemy outright, I don't like the sound of it, and if it falls together, it's either extremely overpowered or completely useless, so I would not do that... Perhaps you could switch it around, that it has bonus damage? It's still not the greatest idea, but still. I DO like the other part of that trait, the immunity to certain effects. I imagine the archetype class would be an hardened, unshakable, unstoppable warrior with a few tricks up their sleeves. Really like the sound of it.

I would also indeed keep a damaging shield for the class.

[Sandy]

Alchemist looks a lot more balanced now, although the lack of any interesting rolls outside of CHRYSOPOIEA (which I think should be renamed TRANSMUTE, for simplicity ) is a little off-putting. I love the whole 50% consumable discount, though, it makes up for it a hundred fold.

Remember "instant items": the alchemist can attack AND use an item on the same turn. A hastened alchemist can attack twice and use two items per round. And the unique items offered by Mixture make up for the lack of unique battle skills.

And don't put down Chrysopoeia (literally "making gold"), I had to dig through Wikipedia to find that term!

I'm glad Necromancer's been fixed, too, though I think healing is a little bit overkill.

But without healing, the necromancer would just be a normal mage. With an undead army behind his back, but still.

[CMP]

Better normal mage with an undead army than Sage on steroids wielding greatswords. With an undead army.

[LEGOman273]

Remember "instant items": the alchemist can attack AND use an item on the same turn. A hastened alchemist can attack twice and use two items per round. And the unique items offered by Mixture make up for the lack of unique battle skills.

And don't put down Chrysopoeia (literally "making gold"), I had to dig through Wikipedia to find that term!

But without healing, the necromancer would just be a normal mage. With an undead army behind his back, but still.

Additionally, Healing fits in a role-play sense, as the Necromancer essentially heals the dead.

[Scubacarrot]

If I am honest, I don't think it really fits, I did give it a second look, but did not say anything about it because I thought the same thing as Sandy: Without it is just a more powerful version of a Mage. I am thinking of an alternative to healing, and haven't really thought of anything good yet, I was thinking along the lines of being able to summon extra allies at will... When I've got something, I'll be sure to say.

[JimBee]

I like the healing part of Necromancer as well, I don't think it's overpowered because the strength of an attack/spell/heal largely depends on how many minions it has.

[Sandy]

I was contemplating on replacing Necromancer's healing with revival skills (meaning they could restore health only to knocked out allies), but wouldn't that make the class even more overpowered?

Anyway, I'd like to believe my expert classes are quite balanced now, and there should be something for every type of player.

Now all you've got to do is start building up those reputations.

[Flipz]

I was contemplating on replacing Necromancer's healing with revival skills (meaning they could restore health only to knocked out allies), but wouldn't that make the class even more overpowered?

Anyway, I'd like to believe my expert classes are quite balanced now, and there should be something for every type of player.

Now all you've got to do is start building up those reputations.

Speaking of which, we really, REALLY do need more Zeigfried and Shadeaux-based Quests (not directed specifically at you, this goes out to all QMs and prospective QMs ).

[Palathadric]

Zeigfried and Shadeaux quests? Why these two specifically? Have we had any Jei-Pi quests yet?

[Scubacarrot]

Zeigfried and Shadeaux quests? Why these two specifically? Have we had any Jei-Pi quests yet?

Not sure why he said Ziegfried, there has been quite a few of those, 3, 13, 14, 18 (kinda), 21 (not finished).

There has only been 1 Ji-Pei quest (12), and 1 Shadeaux Quest (4)

[Flipz]

Not sure why he said Ziegfried, there has been quite a few of those, 3, 13, 14, 18 (kinda), 21 (not finished).

There has only been 1 Ji-Pei quest (12), and 1 Shadeaux Quest (4)

Whoops, meant Ji Pei. Although, I DO need Arthur to gain rep with the Zeigfrieds, preferably at some point before he hits Expert Class level, even though he won't be taking the Necromancer class.

Also, someone asked this about the Dragoon earlier but I don't believe it was ever answered: if a Hero takes Dragoon at Level 30, finishes a Quest as a Dragoon, switches to a different Expert Class, and later comes back to Dragoon (i.e. after Level 40), will the dragon still obey them, or will the disobedience chance still be there?

[Endgame]

Whoops, meant Ji Pei. Although, I DO need Arthur to gain rep with the Zeigfrieds, preferably at some point before he hits Expert Class level, even though he won't be taking the Necromancer class.

Also, someone asked this about the Dragoon earlier but I don't believe it was ever answered: if a Hero takes Dragoon at Level 30, finishes a Quest as a Dragoon, switches to a different Expert Class, and later comes back to Dragoon (i.e. after Level 40), will the dragon still obey them, or will the disobedience chance still be there?

I need Ziegfried quests as well - the roleplaying for an Undead Necromancer would be delicious.

[Palathadric]

Monk Pretzel would say, "If just being undead wasn't bad enough! Now he can raise is fellow fellons to join him in his evil works!"

[Sandy]

Also, someone asked this about the Dragoon earlier but I don't believe it was ever answered: if a Hero takes Dragoon at Level 30, finishes a Quest as a Dragoon, switches to a different Expert Class, and later comes back to Dragoon (i.e. after Level 40), will the dragon still obey them, or will the disobedience chance still be there?

Yes, the dragon will obey as long as the player indeed finishes a quest as a Dragoon, so that the bond is formed. The player can only have the one dragon throughout the game, though, so the dragon's element should be carefully considered (although it won't come into play before level 40).

[LEGOman273]

@Sandy:

Would you please post the pics of your Expert Classes? I accidentally deleted them from the second post. Additionally, do you think that these classes (yours) are ready to move on to the first post (I.E. finalized)?

@Volcanicpanick:

Please revise your pitch per the structure of the others. Once you do, I will be glad to index it.

@All:

The second post is updated with all new/revised descriptions that have been posted.

[Sandy]

@Sandy:

Would you please post the pics of your Expert Classes? I accidentally deleted them from the second post. Additionally, do you think that these classes (yours) are ready to move on to the first post (I.E. finalized)?

Yes, I think my classes are finalized, although minor changes can still occur.

Here's the pictures once more.

[LEGOman273]

Yes, I think my classes are finalized, although minor changes can still occur.

Here's the pictures once more.

*Snip*

Thanks. First post updated.

Edit: Are there any other classes that belong in the first post?

Edit 2: Can this be indexed now?

Edited June 16, 2012 by LEGOman273

[Flipz]

Question: For classes that do not gain additional Ether per level, do they lose access to Ether if they started with it, or do they just keep the amount of Ether they already had?

[Sandy]

Question: For classes that do not gain additional Ether per level, do they lose access to Ether if they started with it, or do they just keep the amount of Ether they already had?

They keep the ether, but cannot use it unless the expert class specifically mentions the ability to use scrolls and gems.

[Flipz]

They keep the ether, but cannot use it unless the expert class specifically mentions the ability to use scrolls and gems.

YES. Perfect. Thank you so much!

...out of curiosity, would Sealing do anything special to said character?