Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[UsernameMDM]

Gem Master doesn't seem to fit any role that's not covered. It looks like it would play similar to Mage, just without the offensive capability. Making the party immune to a certain type of element as a SHIELD skill isn't that great, considering how few enemies actually deal elemental attacks and the number of heroes who are already immune.

Yeah, I think it needs to be revised for sure, but I wasn't if anyone would be interested in playing another support class.

[Cutcobra]

So, would Natural Respite/Restoration be OP? How about Track Down? Or something that gives the class in-battle advantages outside of battle, such as the discounts received by Marauders, Alchemists and Artisans, or advantages such as the Decamon Drafter's Decamon Expert trait? Something new entirely? I feel like the trait selection is lacking in a big, advantageous trait such as Zweihander Grip. Or maybe something entirely new would be good. Thoughts?

Something that makes it similar to a Witch, but not quite: "Devil's Grip - Demonologists can spend 1 health to make their attacks deal the Cursed effect for the duration of 1 battle." OR "Devil's Grip - Demonologists can make their weapon deal the Cursed effect for one battle at the cost of 1 health. Each round this is in effect it costs 1 health to the demonologist."

[Sandy]

My idea about the Demonologist job class actually involves them making pacts with demon enemies in the game and/or summoning the powers of the archdemons. While everyone's suggestions of the class are interesting, I feel they are all lacking in that department. The name "Masochist" would fit the class better than a "Demonologist"... (j/k)

[swils]

Demonologist:

Shield: Demonic Ritual (prior declaration of self or party member)

Through a dark pact, the Demonologist calls forth a demon from the (void/nether/deepest depths of hell). As part of the ritual, the noted party member will be sacrificed. The demon emerges at their level, with 10x their current HP value.

Could include various Dark Tomes as drops in the game to summon different demons that might have different SP, Power, HP values, etc.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Though I like this, I think it may be a bit OTT. Then again, DOUBLE the values makes it pretty worthwhile.

EditbTen Times!

Edited March 4, 2015 by The Chosen Minifigure

[Cutcobra]

My idea about the Demonologist job class actually involves them making pacts with demon enemies in the game and/or summoning the powers of the archdemons. While everyone's suggestions of the class are interesting, I feel they are all lacking in that department.

That does sound interesting. Can't wait till we see your version of it.

The name "Masochist" would fit the class better than a "Demonologist"... (j/k)

But that's the Harlot's job!

[Waterbrick Down]

I'll toss my hat into the ring, though mine is suited for more of an expert class:

Warlock

These magic users have sold their souls to a greater power in exchange for more control over the mystic arts.

· Additional Health: +7

· Additional Ether: +8

· Weapons: Warlocks wield non-threatening weapons such as Staves, Wands, and Daggers.· Job Traits: Healing (See Cleric), Flee (See Rogue), Pact – When Warlocks are trained they make a pact with a greater being that imparts them with certain privileges.

· Battle Style: Harrowing: Warlocks fight to maintain control of the great power bestowed upon them by beings from the beyond.

1. SHIELD:

(See Pacts)

2. HIT/GREATER LIFE DRAIN: The Warlock deals damage equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the Warlock may choose to drain an amount of HP from their target equal to two times their level and distribute it equally to the party at the cost of 1 Ether.

3. HIT/LIFE DRAIN: The Warlock deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the Warlock may choose to drain an amount of HP from their target equal to their level and distribute it equally to the party at the cost of 1 Ether.

4. MEDITATE/LIFE DRAIN: The Warlock spends one turn meditating to regain 1 Ether. Alternatively, the Warlock may choose to drain an amount of HP from their target equal to half their level and distribute it equally to the party at the cost of 1 Ether.

5. MIRROR DAMAGE: The Warlock is struck by the opponent’s attack, but if the Warlock survives, they reflect the attack to cause the same amount of damage to the opponent regardless of the opponent's defense or distance.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Warlock is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Pacts:

When a Warlock is trained they make a pact with a being from beyond the mortal plane. The warlock may choose to train in another job class but can never change the pact selected.

Star Pact: Job Trait: Intimidation (See Black Knight) May use Longswords.

The Warlock has made a pact with a benevolent though domineering celestial being. Every time the Warlock physically strikes a target, the target is made Afraid for the next round.

SHIELD: Heavenly Directive - The Warlock strikes all enemies with power equal to twice their weapon power plus their level that ignores SP.

Infernal Pact: Job Trait: Spiritualism (See Necromancer) May use Scythes.

The Warlock has made a pact with a scheming and powerful being of the underworld. The Warlock may summon a creature from the beyond outside of battle to do their bidding for the cost of 1 Ether.

SHIELD: Summon from the Beyond – The Warlock summons a demonic creature from the beyond with power equal to two times their level and whose attacks ignore row and have a 1/3 chance to randomly inflict the Afraid, Weakened, or Fragile effects. After a demon is summoned the Warlock must spend 1/8 their total health every round to maintain control, otherwise it will join the enemy party dealing free hits until the end of the battle.

Elemental Pact:

Job Trait: Spell Casting (See Mage) May use Gems and Scrolls.

The Warlock has made a pact with an elder being of the world itself. Critical Hit & Hit are replaced with Greater Spell & Spell respectively.

SHIELD: Elemental Outrage - The weather shifts to that associated with the currently used Gem. All enemies take elemental damage equal to the Warlock’s level plus their weapon power for the cost of 1 Ether. If no Gem was selected, one is chosen randomly from the Warlock’s inventory.

Key Idea: Life Drain, Demon Summoning, Inspiring Fear.

Design Notes: Designing a class with all the ideas that encapsulated Warlocks/Demonologists and making them different from already existing classes proved challenging. Thus the ideas of pacts were born. Warlocks are primary offensive support classes due to their Life Draining skills, however they can choose a secondary role of either debuffing, crowd control, or elemental damage through their pact selection. This is by no means a finished product, but it's a working model.

[CMP]

I've been working on this way too long. This is my (incomplete) take on Demonologist.

DEMONOLOGIST

(Requires making a deal with a demon)

These corrupted souls made a pact for power.

Additional Health: +30

Weapons: Demonologists can use powerful weapons like staves, broomsticks, longswords, maces, staves, hammers and scythes. They can also use scrolls at the cost of health instead of ether.

Job Traits: Intimidation (See Black Knight); Waking Nightmare - Demonologists can receive crucial information or vulgar reprimanding from their pacted demon; Unholy Sacrifice - Demonologists can sacrifice the health of their demonic minion or any dominated demons under their control to restore twice the health sacrificed to themselves or an ally; Demonic Minion - Demonologists maintain a demonic minion at all times that can do their bidding; Hellish Command - Demonologists can dominate lesser demons inside and outside battle at the cost of 5 health as Tamed Monsters (see Sylvan Ranger). All dominated demons return to Azazot after battle.

Battle Style: Demonic - Demonologists sacrifice health for power, but they cannot directly damage demons and vice versa.

1. SHIELD - Advocatus Diaboli - The demonologist opens a portal to Azazot.

2. HELLISH MORTAL HIT/DOMINATE WELL - The demonologist attacks with strength equal to twice their weapon power added to their level and the amount of health they have lost (WP: 25 x 2 + Level 50 + 10 lost health = 110 damage). The target is additionally afflicted by the demonologist, the demonologist absorbing 10 health from them at the end of each round. Optionally, the demonologist can dominate one demon-type enemy to fight on the heroes' side for the next six rounds.

3. MORTAL HIT/DOMINATE- The demonologist attacks with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level and the amount of health they have lost (WP: 25 + Level 50 + 10 lost health = 85 damage). Optionally, the demonologist can dominate one demon-type enemy to fight on the heroes' side for the next three rounds.

4. LIFE DRAIN/WEAK DOMINATE: The demonologist absorbs health from their opponent equal to their level, ignoring row and defense. Optionally, the demonologist can dominate one demon-type enemy to fight on the heroes' side for the next round.

5. DAMAGE/NO DOMINATE - The demonologist is struck by the opponent's attack, optionally having failed to dominate it.

6. SPECIAL MIRROR/NO DOMINATE - If attacking, the demonologist is struck by their opponent's special attack, but the demonologist reflects it back to cause the same effect on the opponent, optionally having failed to dominate it.

DEMONIC MINION

The Demonologist maintains a demonic ally to do their bidding. There are seven different demonic minions Demonologists can have, but they only have one active at a time. Switching demonic minions costs 10 health from the Demonologist, and can be done outside or inside combat at the cost of the Demonologist's turn. Forming a pact with other demons potentially allows Demonologists to summon new types of minions. Each type of demonic minion has a

The demonic minion can be healed the same way heroes can, but once killed they must be resummoned by the Demonologist at the cost of 10 health. It cannot carry, equip, or use items, but items can be used on them.

[Name of Demon] (demonic minion of [demon type], controlled by [player name])

Level (Equal to the demonologist's and grows with them)

Base Health: 50 (+1 per level up)

Element: (Based on demon type)

The demonic minion fights with the following skills, attacking the target the Demonologist demands:

1. SHIELD: (Based on demon type)

2. BOUNDLESS DESTRUCTION: The demon deals elemental damage equal to twice its level at the cost of 3 of the Demonologist's health. The Demonologist can sacrifice more health to increase the attack's multiplier, adding one multiplier for every 3 health sacrificed. ((Level 50 x 2) x 3 (9 health sacrificed) = 300 damage)

3. DESTRUCTION: The demon deals elemental damage equal to its level at the cost of 3 of the Demonologist's health. The Demonologist can sacrifice more health to increase the attack's multiplier, adding one multiplier for every 3 health sacrificed. (Level 50 x 3 (9 health sacrificed) = 150 damage)

4. PITIFUL DESTRUCTION: The demon deals elemental damage equal to half its level at the cost of 3 of the Demonologist's health. The Demonologist can sacrifice more health to increase the attack's multiplier, adding one multiplier for every 3 health sacrificed. ((Level 50/2) x 3 (9 health sacrificed) = 75 damage)

5. DAMAGE: The demon is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. UNBOUND: The demon is freed from the Demonologist's control, dealing elemental damage to the Demonologist equal to its level and then leaving battle immediately.

Servant of Abraxas:

Lightning-elemental. SHIELD: Pride -

Servant of Ahriman:

Wind-elemental. SHIELD: Envy -

Servant of Leviathan:

Water-elemental. SHIELD: Sloth -

Servant of Marilith

Fire-elemental. SHIELD: Vengeance -

Servant of Mephisto:

Ice-elemental. SHIELD: Gluttony -

Servant of Naamah:

Earth-elemental. SHIELD: Greed -

Servant of Rosier:

Wood-elemental. SHIELD: Lust -

[JimBee]

I like the ideas from everyone. A Life Drain of some sort is more fitting than Healing, but I would like to see the Mortal Hits worked in somehow so obviously it would be pointless to have them be in the same roll. What about an optional roll for each one, so the strategy would be to trade off between power or recovering health. Failing to drain life (rolling a 5 or 6) would result in Damage/Special Damage.

SACRIFICIAL MORTAL HIT/SACRIFICIAL MORTAL SPELL/LIFE DRAIN: The demonologist attacks or spends 1 health to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level and the amount of health they have lost (WP 15 + 50 + 10 lost health = 75 (elemental) damage). The demonogist can choose to sacrifice any amount of health to add to the power of the attack or spell. Instead of attacking the demonologist can drain health from the enemy by an amount equal to their level.

I think it's important that Demonologist can spellcast to make the health sacrifice more worthwhile due to elemental multipliers. I also still like the idea of having Counter, Mirror Damage and Special Mirror rolls for the class.

I like the Afflicted-effect. Dominate added with Pie's minion idea would make the class a summon class/crowd control like Evoker, Drafter or Necromancer, which would fit well with what Sandy has in mind but I think it would be better with the high risk/high reward style. I do like the minion idea on its own though. And even without the minion, you could still have the Demonologist's own SHIELD skill reflect the seven deadly sins/archdemons. It might be too similar to Weather Mage that way, though.

I think the minion's multiplier based on extra health sacrificed is also a good idea. If a level 50 Demonologist had 90 max health, the most damage the minion could do in one turn is 1500, which isn't that much considering the cost. And the Demonologist would have to heal itself next turn, where Life Drain, unlike Heal, failing results in negative consequences (Damage/Special Damage is rolled for Life Drain, where No Heal is the only consequence of a failed healing).

Summary: My new version of the Demonologist would involve WBD's Life Drain idea incorporated into Pie's design in place of Dominate. I still like the idea of using health instead of ether.

[JimBee]

Okay, I decided to take the time to write out an improved version of Demonologist using some ideas presented in this thread. I mostly built off of Pie's design, incorporated elements of my previous design into it, and made some changes to fit into Sandy's idea. Here's a summary, with the full class writeup below.

• Changed Hellish Command to incorporate the seven deadly sins/archdemons into a Command-like trait. Brings into question the need for Intimidation, but I liked this way because I removed the Domination trait altogether, leaving Pie's version of this a little out of place.
  
• The SHIELD skill summons all of the archdemon servants at once. Powerful, but remember the servants' power derives from the Demonologist's health. The player will have to balance his health expenditure with how many servants are attacking and with what strength.
  
• Changed the 2, 3, and 4 rolls to have the option between attacking/spellcasting and life draining. The "sacrificial" prefix refers to the ability to exchange health for base power for each attack.
  
• Kept the Counter, Mirror Damage and Special Mirror rolls from my version
  
• Kept most of what Pie had for the servants, and added my ideas for their SHIELD abilities. They're very powerful and unique IMO, but have some small drawbacks that balance them out. I can see how they would be viewed as wacky/complicated, definitely. But they do add to the archdemon theme as well as the high risk/high reward play style that I've been pulling for in this class. Some people won't like it, but those are my ideas, so take them as you will.
  

DEMONOLOGIST

(Requires making a deal with a demon)

These corrupted souls made a pact for power.

Additional Health: +30

Weapons: Demonologists can use powerful weapons like staves, broomsticks, longswords, maces, hammers and scythes. They can also use scrolls at the cost of health instead of ether.

Job Traits: Intimidation (See Black Knight); Waking Nightmare - Demonologists can receive crucial information or vulgar reprimanding from their pacted demon; Unholy Sacrifice- Demonologists can sacrifice the health of their demonic minion under their control to restore twice the health sacrificed to themselves or an ally; Demonic Minion - Demonologists maintain a demonic minion at all times that can do their bidding; Hellish Command - Demonologists can use the powers of the seven deadly sins to manipulate others into doing their bidding.

Battle Style: Demonic - Demonologists sacrifice health for power, but they cannot directly damage demons and vice versa.

1. SHIELD - Advocatus Diaboli - The demonologist opens a portal to Azazot, allowing the powers of the seven archdemons to be unleashed all at once. Minons of all seven archdemons are summoned into battle, bound to do the demonologist's bidding for one turn before returning. This costs no health.

2. CRITICAL SACRIFICIAL MORTAL HIT/GREAT SACRIFICIAL MORTAL SPELL/GREATER LIFE DRAIN: The demonologist attacks or spends 1 health to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level and the amount of health they have lost (WP 15x2 + 50 + 10 lost health = 90 (elemental) damage). The demonogist can choose to sacrifice any amount of health to add to the power of the attack or spell. Instead of attacking the demonologist can drain health from the enemy by an amount equal to two times their level.

3. SACRIFICIAL MORTAL HIT/SACRIFICIAL MORTAL SPELL/LIFE DRAIN: The demonologist attacks or spends 1 health to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level and the amount of health they have lost (WP 15 + 50 + 10 lost health = 75 (elemental) damage). The demonogist can choose to sacrifice any amount of health to add to the power of the attack or spell. Instead of attacking the demonologist can drain health from the enemy by an amount equal to their level.

4. SACRIFICIAL MORTAL COUNTER/SACRIFICIAL MORTAL SPELL COUNTER/LESSER LIFE DRAIN: The demonologist is struck by the opponent's attack but attacks right back or spends 1 health to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. The Demonologist can choose to sacrifice any amount of health to add to the amount of damage dealt. Instead of attacking, the demonologist can drain health from the enemy by an amount equal to half their level.

5. MIRROR DAMAGE: The demonologist is struck by the opponent's attack, but if the demonologist survives, they reflect the attack to cause the same amount of damage to the opponent regardless of defense or distance.

6. SPECIAL MIRROR: The demonologist is struck by their opponent's special attack, but the demonologist reflects it back to cause the same effect on the opponent. Optionally, any attempt at healing fails.

DEMONIC MINION

The Demonologist maintains a demonic ally to do their bidding. There are seven different demonic minions Demonologists can have, but they only have one active at a time, except when SHIELD is rolled. Switching demonic minions costs 10 health from the Demonologist, and can be done outside or inside combat at the cost of the Demonologist's turn. Forming a pact with other demons potentially allows Demonologists to summon new types of minions. Each type of demonic minion deals elemental damage corresponding to its type.

The demonic minion can be healed the same way heroes can, but once killed they must be resummoned by the Demonologist at the cost of 10 health and one turn. It cannot carry, equip, or use items, but items can be used on them.

[Name of Demon] (demonic minion of [demon type], controlled by [player name])

Level (Equal to the demonologist's and grows with them)

Base Health: 50 (+1 per level up)

Element: (Based on demon type)

The demonic minion fights with the following skills, attacking the target the Demonologist demands:

1. SHIELD: (Based on demon type)

2. BOUNDLESS DESTRUCTION: The demon deals elemental damage equal to twice its level at the cost of 3 of the Demonologist's health. The Demonologist can sacrifice more health to increase the attack's multiplier, adding one multiplier for every 3 health sacrificed. ((Level 50 x 2) x 3 (9 health sacrificed) = 300 damage)

3. DESTRUCTION: The demon deals elemental damage equal to its level at the cost of 3 of the Demonologist's health. The Demonologist can sacrifice more health to increase the attack's multiplier, adding one multiplier for every 3 health sacrificed. (Level 50 x 3 (9 health sacrificed) = 150 damage)

4. PITIFUL DESTRUCTION: The demon deals elemental damage equal to half its level at the cost of 3 of the Demonologist's health. The Demonologist can sacrifice more health to increase the attack's multiplier, adding one multiplier for every 3 health sacrificed. ((Level 50/2) x 3 (9 health sacrificed) = 75 damage)

5. DAMAGE: The demon is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. UNBOUND: The demon is freed from the Demonologist's control, dealing elemental damage to the Demonologist equal to its level and then leaving battle immediately.

Servant of Abraxas:

Lightning-elemental. SHIELD: Pride - Deals lightning damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level. The Demonologist doubles his current and maximum health, but directs all damage to himself.

Servant of Ahriman:

Wind-elemental. SHIELD: Envy - Deals wind-elemental damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level. ???

Servant of Leviathan:

Water-elemental. SHIELD: Sloth - Deals water-elemental damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level. The party recovers full health, all negative effects are removed, and any Knocked Out party members are revived with full health, but the Demonologist falls Asleep afterwards.

Servant of Marilith

Fire-elemental. SHIELD: Vengeance - Deals fire-elemental damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level and knocks out the Demonologist. The Demonologist is automatically revived at the beginning of the next round and instantly kills the targeted enemy (unless immune).

Servant of Mephisto:

Ice-elemental. SHIELD: Gluttony - Deals ice-elemental damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level, raises their level by 1/10th, and makes them all Slowed.

Servant of Naamah:

Earth-elemental. SHIELD: Greed - Deals earth-elemental damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level and steals gold from all enemies equal to their combined level, regardless of whether or not they actually carry gold, and the demonologist takes damage equal to 1/10th of the amount of gold stolen.

Servant of Rosier:

Wood-elemental. SHIELD: Lust - Deals wood-elemental damage to all enemies equal to three times the servant's level and makes them Enamored with the demonologist for three turns. The Demonologist also becomes Enamored with the target.

[CMP]

I like it, especially the drain mechanic, but I don't care for spellcasting. There's no room for the job trait and in very few cases would one use physical attacks over spells.

Also, that was more or less exactly what I wanted to do for the Shield roll, but it's identical to Decamon Drafter's so I dropped it.

I'm also not sure about the Servant's Shield rolls affecting the Demonologist rather than the Servant itself, but the flavor of the rolls is pretty nice...

Also, I like the new Hellish Command, but I think the ability to kind of Command lesser demons fits just too darn well. Maybe using the seven sins to manipulate people and Hellish Command are two separate things (with the former taking the place of Intimidation)?

[Duvors]

Nice, I like it. And for envy, why not have all positive effects and a portion of the health of the targeted enemy be transferred to the party, but the demonologist is incapable of attacking anyone else until the enemy is dead?

[JimBee]

I like it, especially the drain mechanic, but I don't care for spellcasting. There's no room for the job trait and in very few cases would one use physical attacks over spells.

Also, that was more or less exactly what I wanted to do for the Shield roll, but it's identical to Decamon Drafter's so I dropped it.

I'm also not sure about the Servant's Shield rolls affecting the Demonologist rather than the Servant itself, but the flavor of the rolls is pretty nice...

Also, I like the new Hellish Command, but I think the ability to kind of Command lesser demons fits just too darn well. Maybe using the seven sins to manipulate people and Hellish Command are two separate things (with the former taking the place of Intimidation)?

I think maybe spellcasting isn't as necessary now that the class can sacrifice health for more things, including their elemental servant.

It seems like the only fitting solution (that I came up with anyway), and the servants are quite different from Decamon cards. There's need to balance for health losses after summoning all of the servants, unlike DD.

I like that idea a lot, though there's also the trait that allows Demonologists to gain information from demons, so it's similar in that way too.

Nice, I like it. And for envy, why not have all positive effects and a portion of the health of the targeted enemy be transferred to the party, but the demonologist is incapable of attacking anyone else until the enemy is dead?

Sounds fitting.

[CMP]

I like that idea a lot, though there's also the trait that allows Demonologists to gain information from demons, so it's similar in that way too.

Waking Nightmare is more like Prophet's Clairvoyance (asking the pacted demon for advice and such) while the Hellish Command would be like Command for lesser, actually corporeal demons.

[Cutcobra]

Really liking your idea, JimBee.

I think Hellish Command should be just a roleplaying thing with demons (commanding them). And like CallMePie said, the "seven deadly sins" thing should replace Intimidation.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Beast Mage

These irritible mages relly let out the beast!

Aditional Health: +7

Aditional Ether: +8

Weapons: Beast Mages use brutal weapons such as Clubs, Greatswords, and Whips, but can also wield anything suitable for a mage, including gems and scrolls.

Job Traits: Animal Talk-(see Ranger), Beastly Assistance: The Beast Warrior can summon a beast even outside of battle to assist it. The beast is reteurned to the void at the start of each battle, Friend of the wild: The Beast Warrior can convince animals to let their party stay in their nest, lair or cave. If the friendly beast is killed, The Beast warrior loses 5 health

Battle style: Beastly-Beast Mages smash their opponents relentlesly, and release even more beastly creatures to assist their endeavours.

Shield: Beastly Onslaught- The Beast mage summons its selected summon with power equal to 3 times its level, at the cost of 1 ether. It then attacks in unison with all summoned beasts. The beast mage attacks with power equal to it’s WP, times the ammount of beasts summoned, added to it’s level (WP:10x3 beasts summoned+Lvl 30=60 damage). This attack can be imbued with an element for 1 ether. Each beast deals damage equal to half its level in power and the relative effect for it’s element, at the cost of 1 health per beast. All beasts not summoned with the shield roll are then returned to the void.

2: Beastly Crush/Greater Spell/Crushing Summon. The Beast Mage attacks with power equal to twice it’s weapon power added to it’s level. Optionally, it can cast a spell with the same power. Optionally, it can summon a beast with power equal to twice it’s level.

3: Beastly Smash/Great Spell/Smashing Summon. The Beast Mage attacks with power equal to it’s weapon power added to its level. Optionally, it can cast a spell with the same power. Optionally, it can summon a beast with power equal to it’s level.

4: Toughen Hide/Forced Summon. The Beast Mage toughens a beasts hide, increasing its level by one quarter (rounded up). Optionally, the Beast Mage can summon a beast with power eqaual to half it’s level at the cost of 1 ether.

5: Damage. The Beast Mage is struck by the opponents attack.

6: Loss of Concentration. In addition te being struck by the enemies special, all summoned beasts are returned to the void. The most recent summon, however, has a 1/2 chance of of staying in the battle with a halved level.

Beasts.

Beast Mages can spend a turn to summon a beast from the void. The Beast will have power equal to an ammount decided by the Beast Mages level. Each beast can only be summoned once.

Upon rolling a Shield, an extra beast will be summoned, and then each beast deals damage equal to half its level in power and the relative effect for it’s element, at the cost of 1 health per beast per round. All beasts not summoned with the shield roll are then returned to the void.

SUMMONABLE BEASTS AND THEIR RELATIVE EFFECTS

Fire-Enraged

Water-Asleep

Earth-Frail

Air-Confused

Light-Blinded

Darkness-Affraid

Wood-Weakened

Ice-Slowed

Lightning-Sealed

Ethereal-Stunned

All beasts return to the Beast Mages hand at the end of a battle.

Inspired by the Half-Joke in the General discussion

[Cutcobra]

I wasn't thinking of another pet class but more something like a hybrid (think Druid class from WoW). By the way, the beast mage name doesn't fit (at least to me) since beast warrior already has a similar name. Anyways, here's my take on the "wild mage" class.

FAUNAMANCER

(Requires the possession of a book called "Of Mice and Spells")

These wild mages are in touch with nature with the power of ether.

Additional Health: +4

Additional Ether: +6

Weapons: Faunamancers can use magical and long weapons like staves, broomsticks, wands, scythes, spears and halberds.

Job Traits: Spellcasting (See Mage); Animal Talk (See Ranger); Shapeshifting - Faunamancers can turn into one of their aquired forms outside of battle at the cost of 1 ether. Any action done while in this form also costs 1 ether.

Battle Style: Feral - Faunamancers can choose to magically shapeshift inside battle to suit their needs.

1. SHIELD - Wrath of The Wilds - The faunamancer transforms into all his forms and uses their 5 rolls on his targeted enemy and/or ally. If no ally or enemy was chosen it will be randomly done by the QM (Example: Feline Form + Guardian Form (Level 30x2 and Bleeding effect + Level 30x2 = 120 damage + bleeding effect )- And Aquatic Form (Level 30x2 = 60 health restored to a random ally)). All this costs one ether

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL: The faunamancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (WP 15x2 + 30 = 60 damage (elemental) damage).

3. HIT/SPELL: The faunamancer attacks or spends 1 HEALTH to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (WP 15 + 30 = 45 (elemental) damage).

4. NATURAL MEDITATION: The faunamancer restores 3 ether. The meditation is multiplied by 2 if the weather is either Lush, Dry or Humid.

5. DAMAGE: The faunamancer is struck by the opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The faunamancer is struck by their opponent's special attack.

WILD FORMS:

The faunamancer can choose to turn into one of their animal forms in or inside battle at the cost of 1 ether. Changing between forms costs 1 ether. Each turn spent in an animal form costs the faunamancer 1 ether. If the faunamancer is either knocked out or runs out of ether they immediately revert back to their normal form. The faunamancer may learn more forms from other creatures, if taught.

WILD FORM ROLLS:

1. SHIELD - See the first page.

2. CRITICAL - The faunamancer attacks/other with strength equal to two times their level (Level 30x2 = 60 damage/other)

3. HIT - The faunamancer attacks/other with strength equal to their level (Level 30 = 30 damage/other)

4. MISS - The faunamancer misses their attack/other.

5. DAMAGE - The faunamancer is struck by their opponent's attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE - The faunamancer is struck by their opponent's special attack.

The faunamancer begins with the three following forms:

FELINE FORM: This wild form's attacks deal the Bleeding effect, which takes away 5 health from their target per round. Their attacks are Nature elemental by default.

GUARDIAN FORM: This wild form has an added SP equal to 1/3 of their level (Level 30:3 = 10 SP). Their attacks are Earth elemental by default.

AQUATIC FORM: This wild form can heal any ally with power equal to their hit. Their attacks are Water elemental by default.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

This I would play as.

[Zepher]

Some class suggested changes (not really fully formed ideas for some of them, just some notes):

Minstrels - Minstrels are insanely over powered. We saw it in 121, and we're seeing it again now. I would like to commend Chromeknight immensely for playing along with me and not using the songs that are incredibly powerful... but quite frankly, I don't think it should be on Chromeknight to neuter the class. The ether costs of ALL the songs are simply too cheap, and the class itself has massively outclassed scrolls (for example: Nanny's Lullaby costs 1 ether to put all enemies to sleep FOR CERTAIN, whereas the arc scroll of sleep costs ether x # of foes for a 1/2 chance). I think, and I know this has been proposed before but it seems the fairest solution to me, that the ether costs should be proportional to the number of foes/allies. It would be a little more math, but it would certainly balance the class a little bit more without taking away any of its abilities or its niche. It would just make the minstrel have to strategize a little bit more, same as scroll casters, but still give them an edge of scroll casters with their likelihood of success.

And again, Chromeknight has been so incredibly decent about things it makes me sad to suggest that we harm the class. Sorry, Chromeknight.

Alchemist - This class has less of a problem, and like I said elsewhere I know Guts is a BAD example of what a class might actually play as. I know we've already nerfed it, but its ability to make gold AND get a massive discount does seem wild. Take, for example, an alchemist with 30 gold, 10 bombs, 5 artifacts and 5 weapons [that's less than most players have at this point]. They can buy 10 potions, so they do. They just have to roll a single 4 in the entirety of the quest, and they've made their gold back. Let's say they roll it three times (again, an underestimation). So they go back to the market with 90 gold. They buy 30 potions. Even if they used all their potions last quest, they now have 50 items. They now only need to roll two 4s to make a profit. See the issue?

I like the 4 roll for the class a lot. But it's just too easy for them to grow gold, and that will make them seriously outclass clerics and any buffing class extremely quickly. They can already create powerful and expensive items. That saves them gold already.

Those are the only two that I really see a distinct problem with for the time being, but I haven't been watching all the classes, just a few. I think also that theres no reason to keep the dragoon disobedience clause - I understand what you were trying to achieve and like what you were trying to achieve, but it's not working the way you intended it I don't think. Basically it just says "get shadeaux rep by level 30 or don't bother with dragoon" not "dragoons need to be committed". That kind of stinks, because it makes people who want to go dragoon wait around for quests, whereas no other class has to do that. I don't really understand what it brings to that class, either as a negative OR a positive. It just hurts people trying to gain access to that class.

Also, and I know you share this opinion because we DID up the ether costs recently, but it is nearly impossible to use up someone's ether over the course of a quest after they get past level 20. At a certain point this means that mages automatically outclass rangers, because they have burst damage and back row and elemental, and their ether doesn't hamper them, which is supposed to be the downside of that class. I see this as an issue with all mage/ether based classes, minus weather mage and necromancer. It's the same issue appearing in Minstrel.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I feel, personally, that classes shouldn't get "better and better" - well, they should, but not so steeply. I think we should aim for "more specialized and specialized" which means a) greater strengths (which we have!) and b) greater weaknesses (which I think are lacking in some classes). I think there are a lot of classes that succeed at this: (my favorite example being the barbarian-advanced classes with their "counter" or the black knight with their lost health being added to their level... things like that!) but I think there are some with too many perks without the proper disadvantage.

[Chromeknight]

The other option for nanny's lullaby that I've just seen is a possibility is that it puts enemies to sleep while the song is sung as opposed to slapping the sleep effect on them.

But all the songs's ether costs could be taken as a per target cost too.

[Zepher]

I think the per target cost would be better, personally. I think it would be a better way to still give the class the punch it needs to continue being THE support class, but would still make you take off some turns as opposed to others. Forcing minstrels to attack occasionally wouldn't be a bad thing - and it's not like it would radically nerd the class, because ether cores (especially at high levels) would still allow the class to function mostly as it is, just for a bit of a steeper upkeep cost.

But maybe I'm just grouchy. I've played Paladin for so many years, and I think it's an extremely well balanced class because sometimes I love it and sometimes I'm frustrated by it. I can always protect my party, but there's simply no way to be a heavy hitter with that class because you only get a 1/3 chance of landing a punch. That's balance to me - a unique strength, and a weakness that levels it out. I just feel that some of the classes don't have a leveling weakness.

And of course I know it takes time to level out classes - some of these we're just really starting to see in play, even though they've been published for so long! I think we've finally gotten extremely level advanced classes across the board, but obviously that took us years! So just trying to iron things out!

[Kintobor]

Some class suggested changes (not really fully formed ideas for some of them, just some notes):

Minstrels - Minstrels are insanely over powered. We saw it in 121, and we're seeing it again now. I would like to commend Chromeknight immensely for playing along with me and not using the songs that are incredibly powerful... but quite frankly, I don't think it should be on Chromeknight to neuter the class. The ether costs of ALL the songs are simply too cheap, and the class itself has massively outclassed scrolls (for example: Nanny's Lullaby costs 1 ether to put all enemies to sleep FOR CERTAIN, whereas the arc scroll of sleep costs ether x # of foes for a 1/2 chance). I think, and I know this has been proposed before but it seems the fairest solution to me, that the ether costs should be proportional to the number of foes/allies. It would be a little more math, but it would certainly balance the class a little bit more without taking away any of its abilities or its niche. It would just make the minstrel have to strategize a little bit more, same as scroll casters, but still give them an edge of scroll casters with their likelihood of success.

And again, Chromeknight has been so incredibly decent about things it makes me sad to suggest that we harm the class. Sorry, Chromeknight.

As someone going into Minstrel, I feel alright with this. However, some of the songs will have to be dropped in ether cost to even be played. I know Nanny's Lullaby costs 1 ether and could work against multiple enemies, but eventually you start getting into 5 ether, 10 ether, etc. It becomes an issue of ether drain. Can the class sustain itself if it's using ether per enemy per round?

Why don't we either bump up Nanny's Lullaby' ether cost, or drop it altogether? That seems to be the one causing the most strife.

Alchemist - This class has less of a problem, and like I said elsewhere I know Guts is a BAD example of what a class might actually play as. I know we've already nerfed it, but its ability to make gold AND get a massive discount does seem wild. Take, for example, an alchemist with 30 gold, 10 bombs, 5 artifacts and 5 weapons [that's less than most players have at this point]. They can buy 10 potions, so they do. They just have to roll a single 4 in the entirety of the quest, and they've made their gold back. Let's say they roll it three times (again, an underestimation). So they go back to the market with 90 gold. They buy 30 potions. Even if they used all their potions last quest, they now have 50 items. They now only need to roll two 4s to make a profit. See the issue?

I like the 4 roll for the class a lot. But it's just too easy for them to grow gold, and that will make them seriously outclass clerics and any buffing class extremely quickly. They can already create powerful and expensive items. That saves them gold already.

100% agree with that. The 4 roll is insane. Not to single out Guts, but since he's a prime example, a party could hoard items onto one player and watch the alchemist create a 1000 gold plus in a battle. The 4 roll needs a change.

Those are the only two that I really see a distinct problem with for the time being, but I haven't been watching all the classes, just a few. I think also that theres no reason to keep the dragoon disobedience clause - I understand what you were trying to achieve and like what you were trying to achieve, but it's not working the way you intended it I don't think. Basically it just says "get shadeaux rep by level 30 or don't bother with dragoon" not "dragoons need to be committed". That kind of stinks, because it makes people who want to go dragoon wait around for quests, whereas no other class has to do that. I don't really understand what it brings to that class, either as a negative OR a positive. It just hurts people trying to gain access to that class.

Also, and I know you share this opinion because we DID up the ether costs recently, but it is nearly impossible to use up someone's ether over the course of a quest after they get past level 20. At a certain point this means that mages automatically outclass rangers, because they have burst damage and back row and elemental, and their ether doesn't hamper them, which is supposed to be the downside of that class. I see this as an issue with all mage/ether based classes, minus weather mage and necromancer. It's the same issue appearing in Minstrel.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I feel, personally, that classes shouldn't get "better and better" - well, they should, but not so steeply. I think we should aim for "more specialized and specialized" which means a) greater strengths (which we have!) and b) greater weaknesses (which I think are lacking in some classes). I think there are a lot of classes that succeed at this: (my favorite example being the barbarian-advanced classes with their "counter" or the black knight with their lost health being added to their level... things like that!) but I think there are some with too many perks without the proper disadvantage.

I'll agree to a point with dragoon. It's a class that's supposed to grow with the player. It's not so good at it's early stage, but becomes really good at higher levels. The problem is the fact that people go a quest with dragoon, switch out of dragoon after the quest, and since they were in dragoon, go back into dragoon at a higher level when it's more beneficial to have a dragon. These are dragons we're talking about! Intelligent, sentient, feeling creatures! If you're going to keep this in the class, dragons who are left by their dragoons who enter another class should feel resentment for the hero. They left them for another class, of course their going to show signs of disobedience and mistrust. I'm starting to sound like Hiccup here! I think something needs to be worked out here too.

I'll also agree with the ether comments. Although, generally after a certain point in most RPGs, fighters/melee specialists become less powerful than mages/spellcasting classes. It's been like that since first edition DnD. Is it the right route to take? Not always, and I don't think it is here, but it's something to keep in mind.

I'll agree with Zepher's final thoughts as well. He summed it up pretty good.

I'll also note the lack of Cannoneers, as well as interest in the class. It's a class that one, maybe two people have shown interest for, and one of them has left the game for the time being, with their character now perma-dead. There has to be a way to make Cannoneer an interesting class, but with the amount of Expert job classes we have, it's kind of hard seeing it ever getting used.

I think the per target cost would be better, personally. I think it would be a better way to still give the class the punch it needs to continue being THE support class, but would still make you take off some turns as opposed to others. Forcing minstrels to attack occasionally wouldn't be a bad thing - and it's not like it would radically nerd the class, because ether cores (especially at high levels) would still allow the class to function mostly as it is, just for a bit of a steeper upkeep cost.

How common are ether cores, though?

[Lind Whisperer]

I'll agree to a point with dragoon. It's a class that's supposed to grow with the player. It's not so good at it's early stage, but becomes really good at higher levels. The problem is the fact that people go a quest with dragoon, switch out of dragoon after the quest, and since they were in dragoon, go back into dragoon at a higher level when it's more beneficial to have a dragon. These are dragons we're talking about! Intelligent, sentient, feeling creatures! If you're going to keep this in the class, dragons who are left by their dragoons who enter another class should feel resentment for the hero. They left them for another class, of course their going to show signs of disobedience and mistrust. I'm starting to sound like Hiccup here! I think something needs to be worked out here too.

On the one hand, as an RPer, I agree with you fully, on the other hand, as a player, I want it to stay the same.

I'll also note the lack of Cannoneers, as well as interest in the class. It's a class that one, maybe two people have shown interest for, and one of them has left the game for the time being, with their character now perma-dead. There has to be a way to make Cannoneer an interesting class, but with the amount of Expert job classes we have, it's kind of hard seeing it ever getting used.

Maybe change the rolls so that they make bombs more often? I've thought once or twice about making my second character a Cannoneer, but the rolls, at least to me, don't seem to compare very favorably to the other available classes.

[UsernameMDM]

Cannoneer needs to be upgraded with the new bombs and needs a bomb creation guide similar to an Alchemist's.

[JimBee]

I agree with pretty much everything Zepher has said. I don't agree that Chrysopoeia needs to be changed. If anything, change the discount trait. As has been said before, Guts is a terrible example to judge a class off of. Hybros is also powerful, and I can't say I wouldn't use the same strategy to farm gold, but I haven't gotten the chance to play as the class yet. I'm not using the buff strategy either (partially because I want to roll more 4s rather than 1s), and I don't have a WP:64 weapon with dual strike.

I also agree that Cannoneer needs a buff. I've mentioned before that "Craft Bomb" should include all bombs available at the marketplace. This would make the effect bombs more available and a huge plus for that class. You could also replace one of their existing job traits with a discount to the bombcrafter shop. On rolls of 2 and 3, instead of causing elemental damage to all enemies, an effect bomb would cause the effect to all enemies and then have the Cannoneer deal damage to all enemies. Also, with the ability to combine bombs at Almight's, the corresponding damage of the bomb could be added to the WP and level.