Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Flipz]

Those are the only two that I really see a distinct problem with for the time being, but I haven't been watching all the classes, just a few. I think also that theres no reason to keep the dragoon disobedience clause - I understand what you were trying to achieve and like what you were trying to achieve, but it's not working the way you intended it I don't think. Basically it just says "get shadeaux rep by level 30 or don't bother with dragoon" not "dragoons need to be committed". That kind of stinks, because it makes people who want to go dragoon wait around for quests, whereas no other class has to do that. I don't really understand what it brings to that class, either as a negative OR a positive. It just hurts people trying to gain access to that class.

I'll agree to a point with dragoon. It's a class that's supposed to grow with the player. It's not so good at it's early stage, but becomes really good at higher levels. The problem is the fact that people go a quest with dragoon, switch out of dragoon after the quest, and since they were in dragoon, go back into dragoon at a higher level when it's more beneficial to have a dragon. These are dragons we're talking about! Intelligent, sentient, feeling creatures! If you're going to keep this in the class, dragons who are left by their dragoons who enter another class should feel resentment for the hero. They left them for another class, of course their going to show signs of disobedience and mistrust. I'm starting to sound like Hiccup here! I think something needs to be worked out here too.

I'm with Zepher on this. I spent a LOT of time worrying whether or not I'd get enough Shadeaux rep to hit Dragoon before 40, which in some cases led me to make decisions in the name of "can I get rep" rather than "will I enjoy playing this Quest/will I be a useful contributor to this Quest's story?". Then, I switched out of Dragoon because it wasn't fun for me to play, even after giving it a more than fair shot--it wasn't "this dragon's no good at this level, better wait until it's better", it was "I am downright miserable playing the old version of this class, and I'd rather see swils play it a little before I commit to playing it on a Quest for the next several months". To be penalized so harshly for doing something in the name of fun over stats seems...wrong, somehow. IF The disobedience clause is kept in (and I do NOT support such a thing), there should be a way to decrease it with time--say, the chance is constant, but is reduced by the number of Quests you've completed as a Dragoon (i.e. someone takes Dragoon for the first time at Level 44 and has a 1/2 chance of obedience during his first and second Quests, but on his third Quest he has a 1/2*2=1/1 chance of obedience, owing to the bond they formed over those Quests). Even still, I think that the disobedience clause is unnecessarily punitive--why punish a player for trying to better enjoy their gameplay experience, especially when they're doing so in a way that doesn't hamper anyone else's enjoyment?

[Kintobor]

I'm with Zepher on this. I spent a LOT of time worrying whether or not I'd get enough Shadeaux rep to hit Dragoon before 40, which in some cases led me to make decisions in the name of "can I get rep" rather than "will I enjoy playing this Quest/will I be a useful contributor to this Quest's story?". Then, I switched out of Dragoon because it wasn't fun for me to play, even after giving it a more than fair shot--it wasn't "this dragon's no good at this level, better wait until it's better", it was "I am downright miserable playing the old version of this class, and I'd rather see swils play it a little before I commit to playing it on a Quest for the next several months". To be penalized so harshly for doing something in the name of fun over stats seems...wrong, somehow. IF The disobedience clause is kept in (and I do NOT support such a thing), there should be a way to decrease it with time--say, the chance is constant, but is reduced by the number of Quests you've completed as a Dragoon (i.e. someone takes Dragoon for the first time at Level 44 and has a 1/2 chance of obedience during his first and second Quests, but on his third Quest he has a 1/2*2=1/1 chance of obedience, owing to the bond they formed over those Quests). Even still, I think that the disobedience clause is unnecessarily punitive--why punish a player for trying to better enjoy their gameplay experience, especially when they're doing so in a way that doesn't hamper anyone else's enjoyment?

Fair point. What if the dragon starts at level 30, no matter what level the hero enter the class at. The dragon levels up similarly to how normal heroes do, so when it reaches level 40, it gains an elemental ability, at 50 it carries the rider, at 60 the party as opposed to it carrying the same level as the hero? Or is that too complicated?

Edited March 27, 2015 by Kintobor

[Zepher]

That actually sounds relatively easy, easy to keep track of, and fair.

[Flipz]

That actually sounds relatively easy, easy to keep track of, and fair.

It does. However (and yes, I am biased here I'll admit), I think the existing Dragoons should get a one-time exemption. I was planning to switch back to Dragoon before I go on my hiatus, but I don't think I have another Training Room post in me right now, so it'll have to wait.

[UsernameMDM]

As long at the dragon's health = 30 + PC level. A dragon should be tough to take down! And especially so since it has no defense except fighting from the back row.

[Palathadric]

IF The disobedience clause is kept in (and I do NOT support such a thing), there should be a way to decrease it with time--say, the chance is constant, but is reduced by the number of Quests you've completed as a Dragoon (i.e. someone takes Dragoon for the first time at Level 44 and has a 1/2 chance of obedience during his first and second Quests, but on his third Quest he has a 1/2*2=1/1 chance of obedience, owing to the bond they formed over those Quests).

I like this idea a lot. The disobedience clause is very interesting idea for a class. However, I do think that if we keep it, then it has to be more worth "suffering" it for a few quests in order to get past that point.

It certainly would be easier to do away with it though.

[Cutcobra]

I'll think of a solution to Chrysopoeia and the other issues with the classes in a few days. Alongside Alchemist, I'm going to make some adjustments to Cannoneer, Dragoon, Druid, Minstrel and Weather Mage, at least.

No Harlot changes?

[Chromeknight]

If a dragon levels seperately (but parallel to) it's PC, can it wear a medal of glory? Is it affected by a PC wearing a MoG?

[Scubacarrot]

I really like the idea of the dragon just gaining experience alongside the dragoon. I'd say it starts at level 30, gains experience in the same amounts as the dragoon (so medal of glory works as well as level up mushrooms and such) and that it's health is equal to it's level + x? If there is the disloyalty penalty still in there, there should be ways to get rid of it.

[StickFig]

100% agree with that. The 4 roll is insane. Not to single out Guts, but since he's a prime example, a party could hoard items onto one player and watch the alchemist create a 1000 gold plus in a battle. The 4 roll needs a change.

Haven't we regularly seen Skrall (I think it was) create many times that using Overkill Gloves?

Cannoneer needs to be upgraded with the new bombs and needs a bomb creation guide similar to an Alchemist's.

Concur. Cannoneer has basically no upside.

[Zepher]

There are quite a few items that break the game, but there's not much we can do about them currently.

[Tachyon]

Clearly nerfing is always the answer !

[Palathadric]

Clearly nerfing is always the answer !

It's a continuous process.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

I couldn't help but build on my vague idea...

Enchanter

These dazzling men and women sparkle with all the colours of the rainbow.

Aditional Health: +7

Aditional Ether: +10

Weapons: Enchanters can wield fast and magical weapons like staves, whips, daggers, wands, broomsticks and throwing weapons. They can also wield scrolls.

Job Traits: Shimmerspell-Enchanters can cast spells of multiple elements, even outside of battle, at an extra cost of 1 ether per extra element. Showoff- Enchanters can dazzle friendly and neutral NPCs, performing tricks in exchange for small amounts of gold. Blurry Shimmer-Enchanters can spend 2 turns to make any ally (including themselves, summons, dragons etc) hastened at the cost of 1 ether.

Battle Style-Enchanting. Enchanters distract and amaze their opponents with their shimmering spells.

1/Shield-Dazzling display. The Enchanter pulls out all the stops, putting on a performance that deals damage equal to their WP, times the number of elements used, added to their level to the targeted enemy. Also, the opponent is either stunned or confused, decided by an aditional die roll. The ether cost is equal to the amount of elements used. If only one element is used, it costs no ether. If all ether is depleted, ether equal to the number of different gems in the Enchanters inventory is restored.

2-Great Spell/Shimmering Spell. The Enchanter casts a spell equal to their WP times 2 added to their level. Additional elements can be added at the cost of 1 ether each, but the power will not increase.

3-Spell/Fancy Spell. The Enchanter casts a spell equal to their WP added to their level. Additional elements can be added at the cost of 1 ether each, but the power will not increase.

4-Put on a show. The Enchanter takes gold equal to their level from the opponent, and applies the stunned effect.

5-Damage. The Enchanter is hit by the opponents attack.

6-Spectacular Dodge. The enchanter is hit by the opponents attck, but has a ½ chance to spectacularly dodge the attack so it hits the next hero in the battle order. However, the Enchanter is also *Cocky* for 3 rounds if the dodge is succesfull. *Cocky* heroes deal double damage but if they take damage they are instantly *Stunned*. Immunity to stunned does not affect this stunning.

Edited April 1, 2015 by The Chosen Minifigure

[Tachyon]

Really hard to read text. Looks like another effect support/damage character.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Text problem fixed. What do you mean by "another effect support/damage character?"

[Flipz]

I couldn't help but build on my vague idea...

Enchanter

These dazzling men and women sparkle with all the colours of the rainbow.

Aditional Health: +7

Aditional Ether: +10

Weapons: Enchanters can wield fast and magical weapons like staves, whips, daggers, wands, broomsticks and throwing weapons. They can also wield scrolls.

Job Traits: Shimmerspell-Enchanters can cast spells of multiple elements, even outside of battle, at an extra cost of 1 ether per extra element. Showoff- Enchanters can dazzle friendly and neutral NPCs, performing tricks in exchange for small amounts of gold. Blurry Shimmer-Enchanters can spend 2 turns to make any ally (including themselves, summons, dragons etc) hastened at the cost of 1 ether.

Battle Style-Enchanting. Enchanters distract and amaze their opponents with their shimmering spells.

1/Shield-Dazzling display. The Enchanter pulls out all the stops, putting on a performance that deals damage equal to their WP, times the number of elements used, added to their level to the targeted enemy. Also, the opponent is either stunned or confused, decided by an aditional die roll. The ether cost is equal to the amount of elements used. If only one element is used, it costs no ether. If all ether is depleted, ether equal to the number of different gems in the Enchanters inventory is restored.

2-Great Spell/Shimmering Spell. The Enchanter casts a spell equal to their WP times 2 added to their level. Additional elements can be added at the cost of 1 ether each, but the power will not increase.

3-Spell/Fancy Spell. The Enchanter casts a spell equal to their WP added to their level. Additional elements can be added at the cost of 1 ether each, but the power will not increase.

4-Put on a show. The Enchanter takes gold equal to their level from the opponent, and applies the stunned effect.

5-Damage. The Enchanter is hit by the opponents attack.

6-Spectacular Dodge. The enchanter is hit by the opponents attck, but has a ½ chance to spectacularly dodge the attack so it hits the next hero in the battle order. However, the Enchanter is also *Cocky* for 3 rounds if the dodge is succesfull. *Cocky* heroes deal double damage but if they take damage they are instantly *Stunned*. Immunity to stunned does not affect this stunning.

While it needs some alteration, I'm so stealing this for an NPC in my ideas file.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Achievement unlocked-Have a prolific heroican admire and steal your idea!

[Yzalirk]

I just got this idea for a class and I don't believe there's anything similar.

Basically, this class would be called Doppelganger and the person can basically summon two "clones" of them self which deal half the damage and half the health of the person with said class.

That's really all I have since it's a vague idea that is in the works. I'm not sure what else to add since the Doppelganger ability is the highlight of it. If you guys like the sound of it so far, perhaps we can build on it?

[Waterbrick Down]

Similar from a mechanic's/role stand-point? Yes, Dragoon's already have a summon that has HP, Sylvan Rangers also can tame monsters with HP to do their will, and Necromancers, Decamon Drafters, and Evokers all have their own summons.

From a RP perspective, the closest thing is probably the Illusionist class idea that has a doppelganger roll.

[Yzalirk]

When you put it that way, I suppose there are alternatives. Nonetheless, Doppelganger sounds a lot better! I'll actually look at the Mechanic class because that sounds interesting and would be really cool for a Dwarf.

[Cutcobra]

Yes, I did actually do this. Yes, I also realize it's kind of dumb.

Aristocrat (Master Class)

(Requirement: Having 10000 or more gold)

These billionaires are dripping with gold.

Additional Health: +20

Weapons: Aristocrats only use the best of the best, so they can only use Mythrilised or Adamintaised weapons.

Job Traits: Flee: (See rogue); Well Known: As a known lord or lady, the aristocrat has a lot of influence on the richer population; Beneficial Diplomacy: Aristocrats don't have much time to talk when they actually need to, so they allow their money to make things easier for them; Empire Business: At the end of each battle, the aristocrat gains gold equal to the number of enemies and doubles the value of a random treasure in his inventory; Pay to Win: Aristocrats can choose to gain any existing trait they want at the cost of 1000 gold each.

Battle Style: Rich: Aristocrats employ the use of the golden circles of metal that everyone loves.

1. SHIELD - $$$ - The aristocrat attacks all enemies with strength equal to their weapon power added to his level and the amount of treasures he has (30 WP + 50 level + 5 treasures= 95 damage). After that, the aristocrat gains gold equal to their targeted enemy's level.

2. EXPENSIVE CRITICAL HIT/CHEAP CRITICAL HIT - The aristocrat hits their target equal to two times their weapon power plus their level. They can also spend gold to add it to the amount of damage done (30 WPx2 + 50 level + 50 gold= 160 damage). Instead of this, the aristocrat can choose to deal damage equal to their weapon power added to their level and gain gold equal to the enemies level, if it has some (30 WP + 50 level= 80 damage plus gold gained).

3. EXPENSIVE HIT/CHEAP HIT - The aristocrat hits their target equal to their weapon power plus their level. They can also spend gold to add it to the amount of damage done (30 WP + 50 level + 50 gold= 130 damage). Instead of this, the aristocrat can choose to deal damage equal to their level and gain gold equal to the enemies level, if it has some (50 level= 50 damage plus gold gained).

4. GOLD RUSH - The aristocrat gains a random treasure.

5. CRISIS - The aristocrat is struck by their enemy and loses 50 gold.

6. SPECIAL CRISIS - The aristocrat is struck by their enemy's special ability and loses 50 gold.

[K-Nut]

Sooooo this class is exclusively for Guts? It's interesting, but I doubt anyone could get up to 10,000 gold.

[Cutcobra]

Sooooo this class is exclusively for Guts? It's interesting, but I doubt anyone could get up to 10,000 gold.

I also doubt any mercenary can become an aristocrat just like that, so it's really hard to get for a reason. Plus, the ability to gain any job trait is kind of cool.

...and it might be just for Guts...

[Khorne]

If you already have 10000 Gold, I think losing 50G isn't really a biggie . Amp it up! Increase the risk. Like playing on the stocks market or something. Instead of 50G, you lose 10% of your gold. You can win tons of money with this class, or lose shitloads of it .