Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Sandy]

If you already have 10000 Gold, I think losing 50G isn't really a biggie . Amp it up! Increase the risk. Like playing on the stocks market or something. Instead of 50G, you lose 10% of your gold. You can win tons of money with this class, or lose shitloads of it .

But if the class is only open for people with 10.000 gold, wouldn't they lose the access to it when they go under that amount?

[Khorne]

But if the class is only open for people with 10.000 gold, wouldn't they lose the access to it when they go under that amount?

It's a never ending circle...

I thought you had access to the class as soon as you earned 10000 gold, not that you needed to have 10k on you all the time. But in second thought, I does make more sense that you need to have 10k on you all the time. Would make kind of a sad Aristocrat if you only had 50g in total .

[Sandy]

Of course this is all hypothetical talk, since that class is obviously never going to happen.

But it does have a few good ideas that could be implemented to some other class.

[StickFig]

I thought you had access to the class as soon as you earned 10000 gold, not that you needed to have 10k on you all the time. But in second thought, I does make more sense that you need to have 10k on you all the time. Would make kind of a sad Aristocrat if you only had 50g in total .

No way - the whole point of being an aristocrat is that you might have had money once, and everyone treats you like you still do, but who knows, you're probably way in debt.

[Endgame]

Leader (Any other suggestions for a name?)

Requirements: ???

These able fighters are know how to use their situation to their advantage, and lead their teammates to victory.

Additional Health: +7

Weapons: Leaders can use weapons such as Long Swords, Great Swords, Axes, Scythes, Clubs, and Daggers.

Job Traits: Lead The Charge: The Leader does double damage when he is in the front row. Holding Down The Fort: The Leader takes half damage when placed as the last hero in the battle order. Diplomacy: (see Knight)

Battle Style: Tactical - Leaders use their positioning and party to deal damage to foes.

1. Shield: Charge! The Leader calls all of his fellow heroes to action, and they combine their might to attack the enemy party. The Tsrgetted enemy takes damage equal to the combined level and WP of all standing party members. Any effects the weapons any of the heroes are using are inflcited upon that enemy, as well.

2. Coordinated Strike: The Leader calls upon the help of other heroes, doing damage equal to his level + his WP + the WP of the next hero's weapon in the battle order times two. (30 (Leader's level) +20 (Leader's WP) +25 (next hero's WP) x2 = 150 damage.)

3. Hit: The Leader does damage equal to his Level + WP.

4. Miss: The Leader's attack misses.

5. Damage: The Leader is struck by the enemy's attack.

6. Special Damage: The Leader is struck by the enemy's special skill.

Figured I'd try and make a class with heavy emphasis on the battle order, and this was the result. Thoughts?

[JimBee]

Idea for the name: Infiltrator. Oh wait...

[LordoftheNoobs]

Warlord? Tactician?

[CMP]

Seems too generic.

[JimBee]

My point was that the class seems really similar to the existing Infiltrator class.

[Yzalirk]

Warlord

Requirement(s): Automaton or Golem OR previous Paladin or Shaman

They manipulate their foes with the specialization of brute force and team healing.

Additional Health: +15

Additional Ether: +10

Weapons: Warlords can only use Hammers, Mauls, Greatswords, Maces, and Spears.

Job Traits: Natural Respite (see Barbarian), Healing (see Cleric), and Intimidation (see Berserker/Black Knight)

Battle Style: Headstrong - Warlords can only fight from Front Row but have a 1/6 chance of regaining 5 health if landing a Critical Hit.

1. SHIELD: War Cry - The party becomes encouraged and do double damage for the duration of the battle (see Berserker)

2. EXTRA CRITICAL FURIOUS HIT/HEAL MORE: (see Berserker and Paladin)

3. HIT/HEAL: (see Shaman)

4. NO HIT/NO HEAL: (see Shaman)

5. DAMAGE: The Warlord is attacked by an enemy's attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Warlord is hit by an enemy's special attack.

I wanted to go in the direction for a more advanced breed of a Shaman/Paladin/Berserker here. I like the idea of it being race locked but I know not everyone would like it so it's debatable since I mainly see this as being a big brute type of character's class. Anyways, I hope you guys like the idea but I can tell there needs to be some tweaking.

[Kintobor]

There's nothing really new here, and even if there was, the additional ether is way too much, and the Battle Style is pretty unnecessary. When I think of Warlord, I think of a class that's melee focused, not healing. That and it just feels like you want a class that only you can play, since you've brought it up to me what classes you're thinking of playing should you toss Mhinak. All the previous expert classes needed some form of rep or an item in order to obtain. This feels like a half cooked Master Class.

At this point, I feel as if we have more than enough expert classes. Some of them haven't even been offered yet! I'd seriously enjoy seeing more Expert classes being offered at this point in the game, though, seeing as how most players are reaching their 30's.

[Flipz]

Some thoughts on Expert (and other classes in general, to be frank) that have been swirling around in my head:

*We need to buff healing. No, not potions and the like; Ethereal healing. Right now, there's no incentive for Ether-based healing classes to heal outside of limited potion supplies, something that becomes basically a non-issue at Advanced Class level. 134 was a GREAT example of this; why heal and risk failure when you can just pop a potion and pay back later? It's the same reason Minstrel songs are so powerful: you announce the action, and it happens, with no chance for failure. While I feel like adding a failure mechanic to consumables would be rather ridiculous, I do think that Ether-based healing needs something to make it more appealing.

*Chi Monk. Right now, there's little reason to use its healing, especially since the SHIELD roll gives no healing to the heal target. IMO, Chakra needs a rework: in some ways, it's RIDICULOUSLY overpowered (I mean, it's a full heal PLUS a positive effect PLUS a purge of negative effects), while in others it RIDICULOUSLY underpowered (once you have all the effects--which happens a LOT--it becomes just a single-target Roots, it does literally nothing if you already have full health and no effects, and not to mention the earlier-explained problem with healing others). Maybe have a different effect for attacking versus healing...or heck, even changing the "full heal + negative effects purge" to be on the heal target if the monk is healing someone else would be a good start.

*Mages. Mages are really powerful, as evidenced by the numbers I ran for giving away the Overkill Gloves. Ether costs are, as usual, the way to go here--I know some people have proposed a cost based on Power, but I'm favoring an Ether cost multiplier per Row the spell has to cross (so a spell cast from the Front Row at an enemy in the Front Row costs 1 Ether, while a spell cast from Back Row at a Back Row enemy costs 4 Ether). In order to avoid nerfing Level 1 mages into the ground, this change wouldn't apply to them (perhaps incentivizing some higher-Level base class play?), or else some other method of base Mages (and ONLY base Mages) having reduced Ether costs or increased Ether recovery would help offset the change. (This is a "top of my head" idea, though, so the likelihood of it being terrible is pretty dang high. )

*Minstrels. The last nerf was good, but they're still too tough to kill on an individual level. We need to a.) incentivize them to attack normally (mostly via Artifacts), b.) make their music carry more risk/randomness, or c.) both. Maybe have the songs work more like Weather Mage weather, with the effects' cost and duration being determined by die roll? It seems like the fairest idea to me mechanically, but others might have better ideas; the big thing for me is changing songs from a "I say I sing a song and it happens" to a "I say I take an action and a die is rolled to see what happens" deal like every other major non-consumable-based action in the game requires.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Flipz

[Zepher]

I don't know about all those - I agree with the first, but I think the upped ether costs for Minstrels fixed them significantly. I'd love to hear what Chrome has to say, but things worked extremely well in my opinion - there certainly seemed to be more of a thought process behind how to use the Minstrel. I'd be happy to see how it works for a few more quests.

[Sandy]

Some thoughts on Expert (and other classes in general, to be frank) that have been swirling around in my head:

We just went through a major update on the job classes, so now is the time to let those changes sink in. Only in time we will see how the changes affect the balance of the classes in general.

The only thing I really agree with you is making ether-based healing more useful. On the other hand, when it succeeds it usually restores full health to the target because the player's power is often equal to their health. So maybe we should consider getting rid of "No Healing" rolls and instead make healing weaker across the board.

But this is only food for thought for future's sake.

[Palathadric]

We need to buff healing. No, not potions and the like; Ethereal healing. Right now, there's no incentive for Ether-based healing classes to heal outside of limited potion supplies, something that becomes basically a non-issue at Advanced Class level. 134 was a GREAT example of this; why heal and risk failure when you can just pop a potion and pay back later? It's the same reason Minstrel songs are so powerful: you announce the action, and it happens, with no chance for failure. While I feel like adding a failure mechanic to consumables would be rather ridiculous, I do think that Ether-based healing needs something to make it more appealing.

Thank you! I've been saying this since forever.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

At this point, I feel as if we have more than enough expert classes. Some of them haven't even been offered yet! I'd seriously enjoy seeing more Expert classes being offered at this point in the game, though, seeing as how most players are reaching their 30's.

Agreed. Unless you have a completely unique idea (like multi-elemental spells), I think it's best just to stay away.

[StickFig]

Right now, there's no incentive for Ether-based healing classes to heal outside of limited potion supplies, something that becomes basically a non-issue at Advanced Class level.

This is killing Matthias the Druid - we've been in the Fields for a while now and he's healed maybe twice? And the potions he has would have done the same job, more or less....

[K-Nut]

Ether Base healing seems like a good idea, but I strongly disagree about upped Ether costs for Mages depending on row. Mage is supposed to be a back row fighter as evidenced by their lower health and they can't build up SP as well as other classes. I agree that base-mages should have lower ether costs so that they can at least have the ability to cast spells. I think, however, that how we decided on ether costs is going to be a fair way to keep mages in check.

[JimBee]

I strongly agree that healing classes need to be buffed. In general, potions are much more useful because they're a guaranteed, low-cost heal that anyone can use, while Clerics and the like have a 2/3 chance of healing a lot, but it's a big risk to take a turn to heal when it's needed when an enemy could be targeted to prevent a free hit. As an Alchemist I think I've outpaced any healing class in terms of support; potions are chump change for me and I can use them whenever I want to for a guaranteed +10 health (+20 thanks to the Kjor Tongue). It's an awesome skill that I don't think should be nerfed, but when Clerics pale in comparison in terms of healing abilities, there's something wrong.

The only thing I really agree with you is making ether-based healing more useful. On the other hand, when it succeeds it usually restores full health to the target because the player's power is often equal to their health. So maybe we should consider getting rid of "No Healing" rolls and instead make healing weaker across the board.

But this is only food for thought for future's sake.

I like this idea a lot. As long as the heals are as or more powerful than potions and there's a guarantee to heal when it's chosen, I think that would go a long way to solve the problem.

As for Mages, I think it was Waterbrick Down that brought up the idea of having ether cost be based on power. I like this idea as well because once you have a Prophet or Arch Mage with 70+ ether, spending 1 ether to cast a spell more powerful than a normal attack is nothing. Not to mention the rolls that restore ether.

[Cutcobra]

Okay, I'm really interested in the "Debuffer", "Enchanter" and "Mind Controlling" mage class so here's how I picture one. For future reference, I have already seen all the other class ideas like that.

Magician

These expert sorcerers control the battlefield with crippling spells.

Additional Health: +5

Additional Ether: +4 (+1 per level for classes without base ether)

Weapons: Magicians use small and concealable weapons like daggers, wands and throwing weapons. They can also use gems and scrolls.

Job Traits: Spellcasting: (See Mage); Charming: Magicians may use ether to manipulate weak minded NPCs. Ability to do so and ether cost are determined by the QM; Debuffer: (See Plagues and Jinxes for reference)

Battle Style: Crippling - Magicians employ the use of attrition to devastate their foes, at a cost.

1. SHIELD - Pestilence - The magician does their magic and blasts spells at all enemies that cause elemental damage equal to their weapon power added to their level and clear them of all positive effects, at the cost of 1 ether per affected target. The magician then clears itself of all negative effects at the cost of 1 ether per negative effect.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL - The magician attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times their weapon power equal to their level (e.g. WP10 x 2 + level 30= 50 elemental damage)

3. HIT/SPELL - The magician attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power equal to their level (e.g. WP10 + level 30= 40 elemental damage)

4. INTERNAL CURSE - The magician deals the Poisoned by 1, Bleeding by 1 and Burning by 1 to the target at the cost of 3 ether

5. DAMAGE - The magician is struck by their opponent

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE - The magician is affected by their opponent's special skill

Plagues and Jinxes:

The magician can cast a negative effect scroll on themselves to deal that negative effect on all spells. Does not work if the magician is immune to that specific negative effect. This can be done outside a battle or inside one at the cost of a turn.

The magician can have many negative effects at a time, but if he/she removes any of the negative effects they will lose the ability to inflict them with spells.

This can only be done if the magician casts the negative effect on their self (e.g. drinking a Jinxy Juice makes them jinxed but they do not deal the jinxed effect with all their spells.)

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Not bad. Could use more weapons, and might need some work.

[Flipz]

...huh. Yeah, I actually like this one.

[Zepher]

I also generally advocate for fewer classes, but that one makes sense to me. Maybe not perfect as is, but certainly unique and pretty close to well-ironed!

[Cutcobra]

I just saw a flaw with it in the fact that it's shield skill is really OP. There's no point in re-applying the scroll to themselves when all the enemies are already inflicted with negative effects. Here are a couple solutions that I had in mind (Please tell me which ones you think are the best):

-Magician may have many debuffs on themselves but they may only choose one to use on their spells. Shield skill remains the same.

-Magician's debuffs last only 2 rounds (Maybe put this one alongside another of the nerfs.)

-Magician may still apply all their debuffs with spells, but the Shield skill is changed to a single target only.

[Waterbrick Down]

I like the idea of inflicting effects on oneself to inflict them on others, however I feel the entire class could be relegated to an artifact that lets ether users inflict the negative effects they are currently affected with. i.e.

Cursed Cloak of Contagions - The wearer's spells inflict the negative effects the wearer currently has. Backwear, suitable to Mages, Necromancers, Weather-mages, and Scholars.

Which brings up an idea for Cleric classes.

Blessed Belt of Bolstering - The wearer's healing gives the positive effects the wearer currently has. Torsowear, suitable to Clerics and Chi-monks.