Open CMF packets

[Rufus]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please, everyone.... this topic will be tolerated while it stays on topic, but any more talk of the relative merits of various stores, or the hazards therein, and it will be closed.

Moreover, Eurobricks will not tolerate members admitting to stealing from stores, and we will be forced to deal harshly with further such talk.

[Scorpiox]

Leave it obviously. I've noticed a few of these before, and it irritates me. I want to buy a complete Space Marine, not just his head, so why do some people even bother to rip up a packet and steal half of it?

I haven't tried buying the remaining half of a packet before, mainly because there isn't the fun and games of feeling out a figure and getting the whole thing. Once, a cashier lady asked is I wanted her to snip the corner of the packet and see what was inside, but I declined. Feeling is part of the enjoyment of CMFs for me.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Scorpiox

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Leave it obviously. I've noticed a few of these before, and it irritates me. I want to buy a complete Space Marine, not just his head, so why do some people even bother to rip up a packet and steal half of it?

I haven't tried buying the remaining half of a packet before, mainly because there isn't the fun and games of feeling out a figure and getting the whole thing. Once, a cashier lady asked is I wanted her to snip the corner of the packet and see what was inside, but I declined. Feeling is part of the enjoyment of CMFs for me.

I actually have never yet found open bags where I live. Neither one single time, and, IMHO, if a cashier allows a customer to open even a small part of the bag, he/she should be fired unless he/she buys the bag if you don't like what you see.

[MAH4546]

I have found them once in a while. If its complete and a figure I need, I just buy it at regular price and save the hassle of feeling packages, it does not bother me that it was previously opened. Otherwise, I leave it.

Edited June 7, 2012 by MAH4546

[GLVBrick]

My son and I recently went through the series 6 packets looking for the figures we wanted at a local K-Mart, and none of them were opened. Although, some of the bags are a little more wrinkled now...

If I saw one opened I would probably not report it. If it were a large number I might. I think most department stores inspect the various sections after closing each day anyway to straighten up the shelves, pick up any trash, and put things in the right places, especially in toys where there is normally more "customer/merchandise interaction." So, any opened products would get handled at that point.

Greg

Edited June 7, 2012 by GLVBrick

[Ardelon]

I would walk away, unless I had prior good experience with the staff and knew they my complaint would make a difference. Otherwise I would be worried that it would cause me more problems than it would fix. In an ideal world of course, telling the staff would be the best thing to do.

And to the guys complaining about how horrible it is to steal a few loose parts, cool it. It hurts nobody, least of all giant retail chain, and thats what counts, IMO. Your indignation should be saved for a worthier cause.

[TheSwampCreature]

I went a store today which had ALL of the packets open. It did have all the ones I wanted, but I'm no thief.

[gifinim]

Twice I've pointed open packets and loose bits out to the staff in my local Tesco and both times they've let me have the pieces - they said they would only throw them away otherwise. It's always worth asking!

[fred67]

And to the guys complaining about how horrible it is to steal a few loose parts, cool it. It hurts nobody, least of all giant retail chain, and thats what counts, IMO. Your indignation should be saved for a worthier cause.

I disagree. You have no right to determine whether or not theft is acceptable based on your opinion of the "giant retail chain."

You can debate the morals and ethics of stealing bread to support a starving family - you can't debate the morals and ethics of stealing toys, in whole or part, from it's rightful owner, for any reason whatsoever.

I submit that this kind of attitude has a great deal to do with what's wrong with society today. Are you seriously going to teach your kids to steal because it's some giant retailer you don't like, or you think has enough money already? Think, man! How would you feel if, in 10 or 15 years (assuming you don't have kids already) your kids could see the video of you stealing parts off the shelf at WalMart?

[Captain Green Hair]

I often feel like a weirdo feeling all the packages, but I never open them.

Opening them takes out the fun and it is of course not very decent.

I have not come across it here in Holland, and I'm not sure what I would do in such a case.

It would really depend on the place and situation I guess, but telling a store employee seems like the most decent thing to do, just above taking the loose parts and putting them to good use.

[Ardelon]

I disagree. You have no right to determine whether or not theft is acceptable based on your opinion of the "giant retail chain."

You can debate the morals and ethics of stealing bread to support a starving family - you can't debate the morals and ethics of stealing toys, in whole or part, from it's rightful owner, for any reason whatsoever.

I submit that this kind of attitude has a great deal to do with what's wrong with society today. Are you seriously going to teach your kids to steal because it's some giant retailer you don't like, or you think has enough money already? Think, man! How would you feel if, in 10 or 15 years (assuming you don't have kids already) your kids could see the video of you stealing parts off the shelf at WalMart?

I understand that the loose leftover contents of the packs is simply waste, with no value to the vendor. Thus, it becomes a victimless crime. Its opening the packets thats the real crime here. If for example, the store could send the leftovers to some LEGO packaging plant for repackaging with the other parts to make a complete CM, and the leftovers would thus have some value, then I would agree with you.

I seriously dont see any connection to teaching my (hypothetical) kids to steal, though I would try to teach them to look at the consequences, and not judge things from a excessivelly legalistic point of view. So far, there is no video of me stealing anything from anywhere, but i would feel pretty bad if my future kids saw a video of me, say, ratting out some pot-smoking friend to the authorities because pot is illegal.

[fred67]

I understand that the loose leftover contents of the packs is simply waste, with no value to the vendor. Thus, it becomes a victimless crime. Its opening the packets thats the real crime here. If for example, the store could send the leftovers to some LEGO packaging plant for repackaging with the other parts to make a complete CM, and the leftovers would thus have some value, then I would agree with you.

I seriously dont see any connection to teaching my (hypothetical) kids to steal, though I would try to teach them to look at the consequences, and not judge things from a excessivelly legalistic point of view. So far, there is no video of me stealing anything from anywhere, but i would feel pretty bad if my future kids saw a video of me, say, ratting out some pot-smoking friend to the authorities because pot is illegal.

I'm not arguing from a legal standpoint, I'm arguing from a moral and ethical one. They are not always the same. I happen to support legalizing marijuana (even if I don't personally use it), and I have actually discussed those positions with my son; it's a straw man argument.

I will say it again, and I won't belabor the discussion - there is no MORAL or ETHICAL justification for stealing any sort of non-essential, regardless of how you feel about the store or the entity you're stealing from. It's simply NOT your decision to make about what to do with someone else's property. And yes, I am very harsh on the subject, sorry, but the way people justify away their unethical actions really bothers me.

Lastly, there IS a victim, whether you choose to pretend there isn't or not; it is both illegal and unethical to open the packages, we can both agree on that, but if you (or someone else) gets parts they want by stealing this way instead of buying a closed pack, you ARE taking sales away from the store.

But even if that weren't true, even if you were to buy the same number of packs you originally intended to, you still have no right to benefit by the extra pieces without the consent of the store (either they let you buy the separate pieces or just give them to you). It's not your property, you're not allowed to make that decision without violating someone else's rights.

It doesn't matter to me that you're talking about pennies worth of property instead of dollars, the morals and ethics are the same.

Edit: OK, here's the bottom line, from my point of view: you're either arguing it's not theft (it obviously is), or that it's justifiable (not unethical) to steal something as frivilous as a toy that doesn't belong to you. That's really it. I simply said I disagree with you - stealing of essentials may be debatable; stealing of non-essentials has no moral grounds - only justifications that people tell themselves to make them feel OK about it.

Edited June 13, 2012 by fred67

[Vindicare]

I'm of same mind with fred67 on stealing. It doesn't matter what it's worth, or what it is, stealing is stealing and it's wrong. When I was younger, I stole a piece(yes, a five cent piece) of Bazooka Joe gum. My dad found out and happened to know the owner of the store. He made the owner rip me a new one for stealing. So, whether it's a "worthless" part of an opened LEGO packet or a whole packet. It's sad you and other people clearly think otherwise.

[Ardelon]

I'm not arguing from a legal standpoint, I'm arguing from a moral and ethical one. They are not always the same. I happen to support legalizing marijuana (even if I don't personally use it), and I have actually discussed those positions with my son; it's a straw man argument.

I will say it again, and I won't belabor the discussion - there is no MORAL or ETHICAL justification for stealing any sort of non-essential, regardless of how you feel about the store or the entity you're stealing from. It's simply NOT your decision to make about what to do with someone else's property. And yes, I am very harsh on the subject, sorry, but the way people justify away their unethical actions really bothers me.

At the risk of sounding overly relativistic, I have to say that morality/ethics are subjective, and your moral opinions are no more relevant than my and others' „justifications“, as you put it. The one opinion that matters is that of the store in question, and I guess what I'm trying to do is express the hope that the stores adopt a generous attitude based on the objective fact that they aren't losing anything by people taking some unsellable leftover. Punishing them would seem to me like treating them as a scapegoat for someone else damaging the packets.

Lastly, there IS a victim, whether you choose to pretend there isn't or not; it is both illegal and unethical to open the packages, we can both agree on that, but if you (or someone else) gets parts they want by stealing this way instead of buying a closed pack, you ARE taking sales away from the store.

But even if that weren't true, even if you were to buy the same number of packs you originally intended to, you still have no right to benefit by the extra pieces without the consent of the store (either they let you buy the separate pieces or just give them to you). It's not your property, you're not allowed to make that decision without violating someone else's rights.

It doesn't matter to me that you're talking about pennies worth of property instead of dollars, the morals and ethics are the same.

I would put the blame for taking sales away from the store on the person who damaged the bags in the first place. They are the ones who destroyed the value of the product. Those who take the leftovers arent doing any damage if the leftovers are unsellable.

If the store decided to sell the leftover parts, then your point might be valid, though I'm not sure if I'm ok with the store selling incomplete figs or otherwise damaged products. What part of the proceeds would go to TLG? But again, this is only my own ethical opinion.

Edit: OK, here's the bottom line, from my point of view: you're either arguing it's not theft (it obviously is), or that it's justifiable (not unethical) to steal something as frivilous as a toy that doesn't belong to you. That's really it. I simply said I disagree with you - stealing of essentials may be debatable; stealing of non-essentials has no moral grounds - only justifications that people tell themselves to make them feel OK about it.

Im not arguing either, but I would have a really hard time saying that theft of unsellable waste is comparable to the theft or damaging of a regular product, based on whether it has any value to the store (not how much value).

Branding people who take these leftover bits as thieves seems petty, or even like a witch-hunt. I simply say that the anger should be reserved for those who steal of damage the packets.

I'm of same mind with fred67 on stealing. It doesn't matter what it's worth, or what it is, stealing is stealing and it's wrong. When I was younger, I stole a piece(yes, a five cent piece) of Bazooka Joe gum. My dad found out and happened to know the owner of the store. He made the owner rip me a new one for stealing. So, whether it's a "worthless" part of an opened LEGO packet or a whole packet. It's sad you and other people clearly think otherwise.

It would be comparable to our issue only if the gum wrapper was opened, or the gum bitten out of.

I wonder whether we're still on topic.

[Jedi master Brick]

Just another point, taking away the pieces is stupid as the pieces could be used as evidence and the store should have acess to them. Stealling is illegal so it is completly wrong to take it (unless it is an unreasonable law which it is not)

[The Blue Brick]

I was at my local Super Walmart about two months ago and happened to secretly walk away from my family to the Lego aisle.

When I turned the corner I saw two boys digging through the packets and saying quietly,"Yea thats the one I want" while stuffing the mini figure parts into their pockets.

At first, I was ready to go tell the employees, but then I was hesitant as they were only about 12 or 14. I really didn't want to get involved, so I just waited until they left.

I later told the employees and said they would handle it. I really wish I could have found the boys' parents so I could tell them what they had done.

The one question is, what would you do if you had a son or daughter that was caught in this situation. Would you want them to face punishment, or would you let it slide.

Me personally, I have mixed emotions on this as they are children, but stealing is also illegal.

[gotoAndLego]

...The one question is, what would you do if you had a son or daughter that was caught in this situation. Would you want them to face punishment, or would you let it slide.

Me personally, I have mixed emotions on this as they are children, but stealing is also illegal.

I would tell the parents; people should learn that stealing is bad before they become adults.

Edited June 13, 2012 by gotoAndLego

[fred67]

Im not arguing either, but I would have a really hard time saying that theft of unsellable waste is comparable to the theft or damaging of a regular product, based on whether it has any value to the store (not how much value).

You still don't get it - whether it has any value is not your decision. It doesn't matter if the employee threw them out or the manager gave them to employees or even to other customers - you have no right to decide.

Branding people who take these leftover bits as thieves seems petty, or even like a witch-hunt. I simply say that the anger should be reserved for those who steal of damage the packets.

I agree the anger should go to the jerk who opened the packets, but that's not the issue, nobody is debating that that person isn't a crook.

I wonder whether we're still on topic.

I thought about it when writing my last reply and I think that yes, this is directly related to the choices in polling.

But my purpose is not to cast dispersions on you in particular, it's in reply to your telling everyone belittling thieves to "cool it" because it's not so bad. Yes, it is. This is how it starts. When I was in middle school and high school, a lot of people I knew were just plain old outright thieves... and they said things like "the stores budget for this," or "the insurance pays for it so nobody loses anything," or "I wasn't going to buy it anyway, so it's not like they lost a sale." Going off topic, I would say the same to people who illegally copy music and movies and other software. I know many people who do it - many of them my friends, and after discussing it with me they have not stopped doing it - but they stopped pretending they had any justification.

There's simply no justification - I will not "cool it" on belittling thieves, and yes, whether you want to believe it or not, the simple fact that someone, some entity (the store?) may lose a sale on top of damaged merchandise is someone being hurt by the theft, doubly so after being left with "damaged" merchandise. The people who own the store put the manager in charge, it's the manager's decision. The manager may have left someone else in charge, in which case it's that person's decision. They may very well just give it to you. They may not. It's not your right to choose.

[Vindicare]

It would be comparable to our issue only if the gum wrapper was opened, or the gum bitten out of.

I wonder whether we're still on topic.

My point wasn't on the gum, it was the seemingly insignificant five cents that the owner would've missed out on. Sure, it's only five measly cents that he probably wouldn't miss, but it's still stealing.

[Rufus]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please, everyone.... this topic will be tolerated while it stays on topic, but any more talk of the relative merits of various stores, or the hazards therein, and it will be closed.

Moreover, Eurobricks will not tolerate members admitting to stealing from stores, and we will be forced to deal harshly with further such talk.

Theft is illegal. This is not open to debate, here on Eurobricks or anywhere. Topic closed.