10228 Haunted House

[Gryphon Ink]

The house is for all intents and purposes the Bates Motel from Psycho, with a little Addams Family and 1313 Mockingbird Lane thrown in. As far as the color similarities, that is the actual color that all three of these famous creepy haunted house buildings were. That grey green color was used because it achieved that specific grey tone that they wanted for the run down creepy houses on black and white film. Very similar to how actors in old B&W movies wore green makeup. I think only the Munster's house was seen on screen in its true greenish color. But if you were to take the studio tours they were all originally a color that we would interpret in Lego as sand green.

Ahem. The Bates Motel is a greyish-tan color:

The Addams Family mansion was only a real location in the pilot episode, where exterior shots were filmed at a house on Adams Boulevard (yes, really). This original house honestly looks white in the only picture I've ever seen of it, but since that picture was black and white I couldn't swear to it. More importantly, though, every other exterior shot of the "Addams Family house" actually uses a black-and-white matte painting. There is no grey-green in it. There is no color in it at all.

1313 Mockingbird Lane is very, very brown.

(Edited because there's only so many times you can use the word "actually" in one paragraph...)

Edited June 14, 2012 by Gryphon Ink

[brickie]

I showed this haunted house to my granddaughters this afternoon,

Their responses; "We have to get one of those".

When I explained that it cost a lot of money and I would have to give up eating to pay for it, I was told, "Well you do need to lose weight!"

Never try to argue with an 11 year old.

The rest of the time was spent on how they could put Stephanie and Emma in there to 'brighten' it up.

I guess that I am not going on a holiday AGAIN this year; thanks to Lego &^%$%##$%^&**((

[natesroom]

I don't care one way or the other...im gonna buy this set regardless...

however for the sake of discussion why don't we just compare them side by side? Pictures are worth 1000 bricks

Comparrison by Natesroom, on Flickr

[Marty McFly]

however for the sake of discussion why don't we just compare them side by side? Pictures are worth 1000 bricks

Side by side the differences are pretty glaring. Similar style to be sure, but clearly by two unique designers.

At the end of the day all Victorian Mansions look alike in real life, so it stands to reason that two LEGO models would also have similarities.

[Alldarker]

I don't care one way or the other...im gonna buy this set regardless...

however for the sake of discussion why don't we just compare them side by side? Pictures are worth 1000 bricks

(...)

Never mind... I hadn't yet read the earlier drama in this thread. My comments wouldn't have added anything useful.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Alldarker

[natesroom]

I don't care one way or the other...im gonna buy this set regardless...

however for the sake of discussion why don't we just compare them side by side? Pictures are worth 1000 bricks

Not just 'common themes': Lego's version is a straight copy, simply updated with some detailing.

I'm sure they are both based on a common idea of the 'Haunted Victorian Mansion' as portrayed in movies and other fiction, but Lego's version is just way too close to the other version to just be inspired by that common idea without taking hints.

If I was guessing, I'd actually say that the same designer made both (and only updated the newest version).

I would think the same thing. If i had a high res photo of the older one you could distinguish details more clearly.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Ricecracker
Please don't quote images

[gotoAndLego]

Basically the same structure with a lot of detail differences.

Everything else aside, I can't believe the color choice is even up for debate. Lets say the designer saw the MOC and changed more details and the color, whould anyone here REALLY be happier with a bley house, or worse a tan haunted house, instead of this lovely sand green one?

We've reached a put-up or shut-up moment. For everyone who really believes this is a copy, lets see you LDD a haunted house that looks significantly different while being production ready, keeping the same size and all the set's exterior details, and look like a traditional creepy mansion/bates motel.

Edited June 14, 2012 by gotoAndLego

[natesroom]

Basically the same structure with a lot of detail differences.

Everything else aside, I can't believe the color choice is even up for debate. Lets say the designer saw the MOC and changed more details and the color, whould anyone here REALLY be happier with a bley house, or worse a tan haunted house, instead of this lovely sand green one?

We've reached a put-up or shut-up moment. For everyone who really believes this is a copy, lets see you LDD a haunted house that looks significantly different while being production ready, keeping the same size and all the set's exterior details, and look like a traditional creepy mansion/bates motel.

Hmm well you shoulda picked two houses more similar for your example

I don't care one way or the other...im gonna buy this set regardless...

however for the sake of discussion why don't we just compare them side by side? Pictures are worth 1000 bricks

Edited June 15, 2012 by Ricecracker
Please don't quote images

[gotoAndLego]

Hmm well you shoulda picked two houses more similar for your example

This illustrates what is going on. I see as many similarities between the two physical houses as I see between the two lego houses; everything else I see as detail differences. That's why some people see it as a ripoff and others do not.

Edited June 14, 2012 by gotoAndLego

[Meatman]

This is one of the coolest sets in years and looks amazing! Definitely a must buy. And without a doubt, the designer did a great job. IMHO The interior is a little lacking, but the exterior is superb.

As far as some ideas being used, I don't know how anyone can deny that these similarities are just a coincidence. I mean once you get past the building structure, then you have the color, then even deeper you have the very similar building techniques for the window frames.

When you do a search at Brickshelf, these images from 2005/2006 are the first things that come up. It would be interesting to hear from the designer of this 6 year old Haunted House and see what he/she thinks about all of this.

This illustrates what is going on. I see as many similarities between the two physical houses as I see between the two lego houses; everything else I see as detail differences. That's why some people see it as a ripoff and others do not.

I don't really think the structure/style of the house is what is being questioned.

As someone has stated before, is it really a bad thing to admit inspiration? The letter from the designer seems very sincere but also very well prepared.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Meatman

[natesroom]

This is one of the coolest sets in years and looks amazing! Definitely a must buy. And without a doubt, the designer did a great job. IMHO The interior is a little lacking, but the exterior is superb.

As far as some ideas being used, I don't know how anyone can deny that these similarities are just a coincidence. I mean once you get past the building structure, then you have the color, then even deeper you have the very similar building techniques for the window frames.

When you do a search at Brickshelf, these images from 2005/2006 are the first things that come up. It would be interesting to hear from the designer of this 6 year old Haunted House and see what he/she thinks about all of this.

I don't really think the structure/style of the house is what is being questioned.

This was a most sensible post...

I will be buying this set... I DONT care that perhaps someone else with a much better building mind may have done this already i just see it as an opportunity to build and own an official one of my own.

[jindianajonz]

First of all, I also think this is a beautiful model, and will definitely be buying it.

Secondly, at first glance, that side by side comparison seems pretty damning. I think it was John that listed the details a few pages back, but the every-other-slope-piece thing under the roof, the grey column lining the edges, the slope pieces on top of the pillars, and the overall shape are all very similar. From what I could tell, very few of these specific features were contained in the Addams family, Bates, or Muenster houses. However, looking at this picture from Disneyland Paris of the haunted mansion, it seems that this building could be the source of inspiration for all of these similarities: http://anthony.atkielski.pagesperso-orange.fr/HauntedMansionSmall.jpg

To me, at least, it is clear that the designers for both models were trying to convert some pretty specific details into Lego form, and there are not too many ways that one can do that. I think it is unfortunate that this discussion got so heated, to the point where the designer has stated that he will no longer look at MOCs. Lego and the AFOL community have a great symbiotic relationship; they definitely build on eachother and work well together, and if it gets to the point where Lego can no longer be inspired by outside sources, it will only lead to more stale lego designs.

[Meatman]

Have any accusations like this ever come out in the past with anything where the designer had to defend his/her marketed model?

I think it is unfortunate that this discussion got so heated, to the point where the designer has stated that he will no longer look at MOCs. Lego and the AFOL community have a great symbiotic relationship; they definitely build on eachother and work well together, and if it gets to the point where Lego can no longer be inspired by outside sources, it will only lead to more stale lego designs.

I thought that I read that the designer didn't use any outside source(brickshelf/flickr) for inspiration and this whole thing was basically just a coincidence?

Edited June 14, 2012 by Meatman

[gotoAndLego]

I guess Lego has no choice but to give us square unadorned buildings. Does a column in the corner look better than plain bricks? Sure Does it matter? No, because some guy did it first seven years ago. Would having the columns connecting directly to porch roof look worse than using the inverted slopes as ornamentation? Yes. Can you think of a better pieces to use that look better and allow for two stud separation at the front and three stud separation on the sides? Cafe Corner used the 1x2 upside down slopes, spearated by 1 stud, as ornamentation below the roofline. Are you calling Jamie Berrard a rip off artist as well? Where is his witch hunt?

Edited June 14, 2012 by gotoAndLego

[natesroom]

I guess Lego has no choice but to give us square unadorned buildings. Does a column in the corner look better than plain bricks? Sure Does it matter? No, because some guy did it first seven years ago. Would having the columns connecting directly to porch roof look worse than using the inverted slopes as ornamentation? Yes. Can you think of a better pieces to use that look better and allow for two stud spearation at the fornt and three stud separation on the sides? Cafe Corner used the 1x2 upside down slopes, spearated by 1 stud, as ornamentation below the roofline. Are you calling Jamie Berrard a rip off artist as well? Where is his witch hunt?

Well here is your answer to that doldrums of an idea

Haunted House 02 by Legohaulic, on Flickr

[gotoAndLego]

Well here is your answer to that doldrums of an idea

While excellent I see a much higher parts count, especially when you factor in an interior. So I'm sure the set could have differed more if it were priced at $300 instead of $200. The designer said he was going for a symmetrical Psycho-style house.

Edited June 14, 2012 by gotoAndLego

[Meatman]

I guess Lego has no choice but to give us square unadorned buildings. Does a column in the corner look better than plain bricks? Sure Does it matter? No, because some guy did it first seven years ago. Would having the columns connecting directly to porch roof look worse than using the inverted slopes as ornamentation? Yes. Can you think of a better pieces to use that look better and allow for two stud separation at the front and three stud separation on the sides? Cafe Corner used the 1x2 upside down slopes, spearated by 1 stud, as ornamentation below the roofline. Are you calling Jamie Berrard a rip off artist as well? Where is his witch hunt?

There is no witch hunt. In fact the only people that I see using the words "Stolen", "Copied", or "Ripped Off" are the ones defending the integrity of the the originality of the 10228. To me the 10228 looks to be to be a very well done build using some inspiration from the 2005/2006 model from brickshlef and nothing more. It is obviously built completely different other than the distinct similarities. It's no secret that most people(especially an official designer) do not want to hear that some of their creation's ideas are borrowed from someone else, ever if they did in fact knowingly use these ideas. This isn't a bad thing by any means.

[natesroom]

again i agree... smart post

For more fuel to the fire

Comparrison2 by Natesroom, on Flickr

Edited June 14, 2012 by natesroom

[gotoAndLego]

There is no witch hunt. In fact the only people that I see using the words "Stolen", "Copied", or "Ripped Off" are the ones defending the integrity of the the originality of the 10228. To me the 10228 looks to be to be a very well done build using some inspiration from the 2005/2006 model from brickshlef and nothing more. It is obviously built completely different other than the distinct similarities. It's no secret that most people(especially an official designer) do not want to hear that some of their creation's ideas are borrowed from someone else, ever if they did in fact knowingly use these ideas. This isn't a bad thing by any means.

There is a differnce between the fell of "some inspiration" and the feel of "Stolen", "Copied", or "Ripped Off". I still believe that the similarities have been arrived at coincidentally, rather than purposefully. You'd have to be pretty stupid to rip-off a first page result on Brickshelf, and the designer doesn't sound stupid.

[Meatman]

There is a differnce between the fell of "some inspiration" and the feel of "Stolen", "Copied", or "Ripped Off". I still believe that the similarities have been arrived at coincidentally, rather than purposefully. You'd have to be pretty stupid to rip-off a first page result on Brickshelf, and the designer doesn't sound stupid.

No he most certainly does not sound stupid in the least. I also don't think anything was done on purpose. This isn't an exact replica by any means at all and I wouldn't consider it "stealing someone's design" but there are way to many similarities for this to all be done by pure coincidence.

[gotoAndLego]

For more fuel to the fire

Combination of roof pieces: Black Falcon's Castle, 2002

Inverted 1x2 slopes with a gap: Blacksmith's shop, 2002

Heck, I've used that hinge piece as ornamentation before and I know I've never seen that MOC.

Edited June 14, 2012 by gotoAndLego

[Algernon]

There is a differnce between the fell of "some inspiration" and the feel of "Stolen", "Copied", or "Ripped Off". I still believe that the similarities have been arrived at coincidentally, rather than purposefully. You'd have to be pretty stupid to rip-off a first page result on Brickshelf, and the designer doesn't sound stupid.

Are we seriously still worried about this? The designer more or less confirmed that he did not rip off any fan creations when making this model. Are we afraid that he's lying? At this point I feel like we're ruining what could be one of his best career achievements. This set could sell great, and looks like it could become a modern classic like the Medieval Market Village. The last thing he needs is comparisons to other models with the same source material as evidence that he stole the design.

Honestly, what's all the fuss about?

[gotoAndLego]

Are we seriously still worried about this? The designer more or less confirmed that he did not rip off any fan creations when making this model. Are we afraid that he's lying? At this point I feel like we're ruining what could be one of his best career achievements. This set could sell great, and looks like it could become a modern classic like the Medieval Market Village. The last thing he needs is comparisons to other models with the same source material as evidence that he stole the design.

Honestly, what's all the fuss about?

This is more or less my point.

[jindianajonz]

I wouldn't consider it "stealing someone's design" but there are way to many similarities for this to all be done by pure coincidence.

Well, as I stated on the previous page, the most substantial similarities between the models seem to also be present in this building: http://anthony.atkielski.pagesperso-orange.fr/HauntedMansionSmall.jpg

It only makes sense that if two lego designers independently use the same source material as inspiration for their build, they are going to end up with similar/indentical techniques. Nobody is "ripping off" anybody in this situation; I believe the designers statement that they just independently arrived at the same conclusion as to how to best reperesent some of the details of that building in lego.

[Vindicare]

Looking at the side by side natesroom posted you can clearly see there's more differences than similarities. Of course they're going to be the same shape, look at all the real houses that have been posted, they're ALL the same shape. Besides, who cares if he saw that house and used some things from it he saw and liked. This argument is ridiculous. All MOCers do it. I read it all the time on here, "I'm gonna use that technique" "neat _____, I'm gonna use that" and so on. Are we really making a big deal just because it's a LEGO designer? Is he supposed to be above that and only make a model using new, never before seen models? Give me a break. I'm ready and waiting September. For all you calling foul, don't buy it.