CMP Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 That was disappointing. Okay, well, our vig is at least willing to listen in the day threads, but it doesn't quite help if we're mistaken as to who's scum and who's not. I'm interested to see how this talk with Walter's gonna turn out, but honestly, we're at a dead end otherwise.
Fugazi Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 This little party is off to a bad start, and I need to get one thing off my chest. Lieutenant Jones, will you never learn? I realise you're pretty excited to be part of this adventure, but you really need to sit down, stop talking, breathe deeply and listen. Observe. Don't eat any more chocolate. Yesterday you have said so many things unbecoming of a townie, and today without learning from your mistakes you're off on a new tangent like a headless chicken. Let me tell you about a couple of things that a townie shouldn't be doing. In fact, it'd be best if tha Loyalists had one or two people ta rally around ta direct their Night Actions. I may just be a junior Engineer, but I'd be happy ta construct such an alliance, if ye're willin'. We shall know only if others grant me that trust. Rest assured, those who do grant me that trust shall indeed find me worthy of it; Getting back to the subject at hand, if I'm a poor choice for a Town coordinator, then who WOULD you suggest? What's will the power hunger? You haven't proven that you're trustworthy, why should anyone choose you to confide in? Stop asking to be the centre of the universe. If you have a Night Action, please contact someone you think you can trust; we need to start making connections Bad advice. It's day 1, nobody should trust anybody. I understand the need to collaborate, but blabbing too fast is a recipe for disaster. Patience is a virtue. I'm pretty certain either of them would be a good lynch; they're clearly Scum buddies. Vigilante, take note: whichever of these two survives the Day lynch, kill the other one tonight, please! The bad news: I'm pretty certain the Vig is going to kill you tonight, unless you'd like to defend yourself? Like I said, hopefully someone will target him during the Night and we can get a definite result tomorrow. Directing the vig, directing the cop... Stop it! For one thing, your gut feelings are terrible. And you don't want to look suspicious for misleading our power roles. Now thank you for bringing up the case of Commander Walters. It is a matter which we explore today, but I advise that you don't get overexcited again and jump to conclusions too soon. For the sake of the Loyalists.
Bob Posted June 27, 2012 Author Posted June 27, 2012 Right, now. here is me wondering why Jason Falcon was in the shot, did something happen to him? It was a host joke. Don't look for clues in the pictures. Elsewhere, a loud crash was heard. A chandelier crushed Doctor Burbank / Dragonator 's lifeless body.
Tamamono Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Oh, boy. Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Ensign Robbins, a word of advice, don't scramble like that when you're town - it just makes people want to lynch you. The one I'm really surprised about is Wright. His behavior was scummy as well, but in a different way. The fact that they both flipped town is not an indicator that we're headed for success this time. Please, someone tell me there's Cop result today? If not, I know of one officer who's built a case against Commander Walters; I don't have all the facts, but this message from him sent up a red photon emitter: Question: why would the commander expect the Scum killer to take him out? If I had been in contact with the Doctor, I would have had him protect Lt. McAndrews or Ensign Campbell or Lt. Wheeler; all three of them were far more Townie in my eyes and thus more likely to need protection. Did Commander Walters really expect to die, or was he trying to keep the Watcher and the Doctor off of his actual target? It ended up not mattering, since I'm not in contact with any of those roles (as far as I know) and thus couldn't direct them, but it still struck me as suspicious--which is saying something, as right up until he sent me that message, I pretty much trusted him. Tsk tsk, I knew this would happen. Because of my quick rise to my rank, everyone's just looking for reasons to pull me down. Ah well, it was inevitable, I suppose. Why wouldn't I expect to be killed yesterday? I'm not trying to be egotistical here, but I should think the scum would want to get me out of the picture as quickly as possible, and since I was so low key yesterday due to real life circumstances officer-captain-y work, I'd make an ideal target. It didn't even occur to me that they'd take out Burbank like always. Commander Walters' suggestion would have done little to help catch the scum, though I'll admit that may just be his ego shining through (thinking he's more vital to the Town than he actually is). Second, it was a public announcement, and flowed naturally from my suspicions of the two--incorrect suspicions, granted, but there was no way at the time that I could have known. Commander Walters' request came privately, and out of the blue--the last message he had sent me before that was: Yes it would have. It would have helped to catch the scum killer (I was a likely target, Burbank just got the bullet first), and possibly even the scum framer or something (if they thought I'd be investigated). In addition, I imagine that my rather unusual quietness yesterday drew some suspicious eyes, so there's always the chance that the watcher action could have confirmed some town actions as well. Honestly, I think it was a good idea. That last sentence was a joke. I'd really rather not have the responsibility of having to coordinate anything this time. You know, I generally do hold those who accuse me in a rather townie light, but man, you're basically just looking for reasons to suspect me. It's like you're going through our conversation and looking at every message I sent you and saying, "Hm, what kind of treachery can I pretend he's plotting with this message? " Quite simply, there is no 'case' against me. I haven't been towntelling as much as usual, but any 'scummy' things I've done are on level with scummy things practically everyone else has done. I'd appreciate it if y'all would stop singling me out. If it's not a malicious Scum move, then it's a rather egotistical Town play. There just wasn't a real reason to ask; he was by no means a major enough figure yesterday to worry about the Scum (and he didn't claim a Power Role, at least not to me, so he shouldn't have to worry there), and he wasn't really scummy enough yesterday to warrant fear of the vigilante. So why was he so worried to die? I wouldn't say it's that egotistical. It was a good idea, and I stand by it. And it's not like someone who acted like a major figure died last night. Burbank died because he's a frighteningly good player (as if this was a game..), and the scum didn't want to have to deal with him. Now, I'm nowhere near his level, but I think that's what the scum would think if they tried to kill me, but on a much, much smaller scale. Get it? Quite frankly, I was worried to die because I hate dying. This is the part that was egotistical. Maybe. You aren't alone in pointing out to me that it wasn't exactly the best plan. I still found the commander's suggestion really suspicious, especially considering how random and out of the blue it was. Right, so random and out of the blue things are scummy now. When did this happen? I don't think I got the memo. I have to ask, did the commander ask any of the rest of you about this, or anything of the sort? Did he tell any of you aside from me that he was worried about dying? If not, then I have to wonder why. No, I did not. I saw no need to confer this fear to any of my other allies. If I were scum, I'd certainly kill him! See? I think he was probably expecting some kind of metagame kill, although from the sound of his PMs to you, he does seem pretty jumpy. Bingo! Yup, Pewter gets it! Yup yup yup! I have to admit, I'm feeling pretty jumpy, but it has nothing to do with our situation. Well, if that's the case, he was half right! I just don't see good intentions behind that request; it simply doesn't feel pro-Town to me. And what's not 'pro-town' about it? Do elaborate on these imaginary reads, please. Here, I'll make a list of why it was super pro-town: 1. I might have gotten metagame killed. I don't like to think that this is the sort of thing that would happen to me, but it's almost happened before, so I took into account that it was a possibility. If the watcher had been on me and the scum had killed me, we would have caught the killer. Hoorah! 2. I might have been the target for townie actions. Whether metagame or not, I was probably the target for one or two town actions last night, as I wasn't the towniest person around yesterday. If the watcher had been on them, we would have been able to confirm some valuable night action townies. Hoorah! 3. Because I might have been the target for townie actions, I might have also been the target of scummie actions. Roles like framer might be a good idea to have on me because I will probably be the target for town actions. if the watcher had been on me and the framer had framed me, we would have caught the framer (assuming there is one). Hoorah! There you go. And that's partly what makes me worried. Regardless of the fact that I was not in contact with any Power Roles, the general perception was that I was. If he really is Town, why didn't he share his fears with several prominent Townies--such as you and Lt. Wheeler, for example? No, he told me and only me--because he's a Scum who wanted to influence the Night's actions away from his teammates. A true Townie would have told more than just me that he was worried about dying; it would help people to be prepared for his death and its reprecussions. Instead, he directed his "worries" to the person he thought controlled most of the power. Because the other townies didn't have the power to boss around the important actions, or at least didn't pretend to. Honestly, telling other townies that I thought I was going to die wouldn't have done anything. This mini-play will explain what I mean: Why Commander Cammy didn't need to tell anyone he was going to die - Part I Act I, Scene I Curtain opens on Commander Cammy strolling through the ship Enter Important Townie Cammy: Hi, Important Townie! I know you probably can't do anything about it, but I'm going to die! Important Townie: Uhh, Commander Cammy, what? Cammy: Bye bye now! The next morning, Commander Cammy's dead body is found Enter Important Townie and the Engineer with the accent. Engineer with the accent: Oh no! Commander Cammy is dead! Whatever shall we do? (I don't do accents, sorry) Important Townie: Ha! Well, I have some super important information today! Engineer with the accent: Oh, please do tell! Important Townie: Last night, Commander Cammy told me... he was going to die. Engineer with the accent: ... And how does that help us? Important Townie: Err, I'm not quite sure yet. Engineer with the accent: I don't think it helps us at all. ~Fin~ Plus, I don't think Wheeler likes me too much this time, so I wouldn't come crying to her with my fears. That's another thing: how does having a Watcher target a claimed Vanilla do anything to clear anyone? Here's a word of advice: Don't out anybody's role - even if it's vanilla. It helps the scum narrow down the PRs. I thought you knew that. Sure, IF Walters was killed, we'd know exactly who did it, but that's a rather long shot, especially on the first Night, and especially when Walters' contributions yesterday were somewhat trivial at best. You keep coming back to this even when it's a serious logical fallacy. You say that only people who contribute in the thread get killed, right? Well, what about Burbank? He didn't do much in the thread - he was just killed so that he wouldn't be able to get in the scums' way later in the situation. And if his request for Watching was scummy, then his request for Doctor protection was even moreso; *girly voice* "Oh, I'm an unconfirmed Vanilla Townie, please put your Watcher and Doctor on me because there's a slight chance of catching the Scum killer who wouldn't even bother to come after me anyway." *end girly voice* I was actually joking about protection. However, if I had gotten killed and the doctor had saved me, that would be one less town dead in the morning, which is beneficial for the town. Also, of course the scum killer would come after me. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true. And Engineer With An Accent, there's no need to do bad imitations of my sexy, manly, captain voice. We can be civilized folk here. That makes sense from a Town perspective...how? The only way for his proposed scenario to work would be to put BOTH the Doctor and the Watcher on him (and even then, it wouldn't clear him, it would just clear the Doctor and Watcher). Yeah, that would have been good too. Going back to his "please clear me quickly so I can run things" message, sure if he's Town, he appears eager. It's funny that you'd accuse people of seeming eager when you're out here begging for the people with the night actions to come to you. But if he's Scum, it sounds like he's unafraid of investigation. I'm beginning to wonder if Walters is the Scum Godfather, or some such similar role, that is immune to investigation and/or Watching. It would certainly explain his boldness in these requests; after all (assuming he's a Scum), from his view, even if I had become suspicious and set the Cop on him because of his scummy claim, the Cop wouldn't have gotten a Scum result on him. ... I'm not going to even bother responding to this. That's just how blatantly stupid it is. Anyone who believes it has caught a bad case of tunnel vision and needs to back off pronto. The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that Walters is Scum. I can't believe I didn't see it sooner, but at least now there's a solid case against him. A solid case. Really? Really? I can't tell if this is your inexperience showing or if you're just scum trying to twist the minds of the poor townies into lynching me, but either way, I'm not scum, and either way, I'm starting to see that the night action townies were right not to claim to you. Engineer With An Accent, I fully expect to be lynched today due to your idiotic theories, but I'll die with dignity. I'm currently the only real suspect, and you're tunneling on me like a madman. I'm not going to give up, though, and I will do all I can to prove you wrong, up until my dying breath.
Peanuts Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 I can't say I miss Wright or Robbins much, they both weren't very helpful. Doctor Burbank is a loss, though. And Lietenant Jones, it seems you're always sure that whoever you accuse is scum. I wasn't expecting Ensign Robbins to be a Loyalist, either, but it would be nice if you'd refrain from expressing your certainty unless you're really certain. And you mentioned an officer who's build up a case against the commander? Are you going to tell us who said officer is, or where you just going to give us a piece of information, again, and then just wait for someone else to present the rest? That's just killing discussion.
Dannylonglegs Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 The one I'm really surprised about is Wright. His behavior was scummy as well, but in a different way. The fact that they both flipped town is not an indicator that we're headed for success this time. Well, Wright's death is not really as bad as some are making it out to be. If he hadn't been killed by the vig, we would have wasted today's lynch on him for sure. It's actually more of a blow to the scum than to us I think. Now they have to find another town candidate to push to the Lynch. It was however, really cowardly of the Scum to have killed Dragonator last night out of fear that he would become a bigger problem. However, this, I believe is why you, tammo--I mean Walters. Where'd that name 'Tammo' come from? --were not targeted. As you can see there's potential for your own Lynch today, and the Scum wouldn't waste a night kill on what could easily become a day kill. That being said, you didn't ask to be investigated... only watched. Why wouldn't I expect to be killed yesterday? I'm not trying to be egotistical here, but I should think the scum would want to get me out of the picture as quickly as possible, and since I was so low key yesterday due to real life circumstances officer-captain-y work, I'd make an ideal target. It didn't even occur to me that they'd take out Burbank like always. I don't see your reasoning here. Why would low key make you a target of the scum? Unless of course, they thought you had a power role. From my experience, the only killer that would target someone playing low-key would be a serial killer, who aims for targets that would make a low impact, which I don't think you would be anyways. Yes it would have. It would have helped to catch the scum killer (I was a likely target, Burbank just got the bullet first), and possibly even the scum framer or something (if they thought I'd be investigated). In addition, I imagine that my rather unusual quietness yesterday drew some suspicious eyes, so there's always the chance that the watcher action could have confirmed some town actions as well. Honestly, I think it was a good idea. I think you're over-assessing your situation. It must be a weird feeling to not be the most important player on the board anymore. Yes yes, everyone posture and express your shock and concern over the night. The truth is, one of you is probably lying about being so broken up, and we've got a major loss to recover from without being fooled by that deception. Day 1, unfortunately, is always a shot in the dark, day 2 needs to be the beginning of a return to the light. None of this chatter is any more useful than the crap you were all spewing yesterday. The problem here is that anyone with useful information will put themselves in danger if they step forward, and the rest of us are going to have to guess and sit around until they do, that means we need to organize something, and at this stage I don't see how to do it. None of this chatter is any different than what we're all already thinking. Yes, we're in a bad place with three townies down (albeit, only one potentially useful townie.), we've established that. Yes, The power roles can't do anything about the results of their night actions until they can find someone to trust (and they sure as hell shouldn't do anything about it publicly). I think we established that, or at least we should already know that. (we shouldn't be telling the PRs to do things in the day thread either for obvious reasons (Flipz, Dakar A )either.) Note to the vigilante. You're a megablocking retard. Yeah, I can say that, I'm a megablocking admin Chief Astrobiology Officer and it's in my job description. Don't do it again until we have something more than 'oh geez, he looks funny to me,' like some evidence maybe. Are you telling the Vig not to kill, or not to take orders from the public? Are you honestly saying we should wait for evidence you just admitted is non-existent on day one, before the vig actually uses his/her power? Apart from the possibility that he could have been watched, the vig didn't make too bad a call yesterday. As I explained, he saved us a day lynch and let us all know that our thoughts yesterday were erroneous so that we can start fresh today.
Peanuts Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Are you telling the Vig not to kill, or not to take orders from the public? Are you honestly saying we should wait for evidence you just admitted is non-existent on day one, before the vig actually uses his/her power? Apart from the possibility that he could have been watched, the vig didn't make too bad a call yesterday. As I explained, he saved us a day lynch and let us all know that our thoughts yesterday were erroneous so that we can start fresh today. I agree, the vig should use their action. It's a way for the town to eliminate two suspects per day. But there's someone I'd like to mention, who I am suspicious of: Lieutenant Daly. He seems to have talked not too often, but yet more often then the quiet ones among us, therefore walking the middle ground. Of course, that's not per se scummy. But what has he said so far? His first statement was the obligatory first "Oh no, the admiral's dead" post, but he was also wondering about the number of the scum, saying that this might be a useful thing to know. The next two times he speculated about other scum groups. All of this can be considered 'Information Instead of Analysis', which is known to be a common scumtell. Then, when the cases against Ensign Robbins and Ensign Wright came up, he decided to ignore the case against Robbins and instead go for Wright, which is not bad, but the reasoning isn't very strong: I don't think that Robbins has been attacked much at all, except that initial Janitor-is-a-janitor thing that was pretty much dropped right away. Wright on the other hand seems to be getting scrutinized more all the time and I for one think we are on the right track here. Every time you say something, Wright, you just look more and more guilty. You didn't realize tensions were high? Really? How is that even possible to not notice. This is a life and death situation we have here. Basically he says that the only accusation against Robbins was that he was a janitor, while his behavior was definitely not pro-town. What does he say about Wright? Not much, in fact, the case against Wright, while IMO less valid than the one against Robbins, was far more than just that he didn't realize tensions were high. Once voting was open, and after the bandwagon had formed, he voted for Wright, this time with a much better reasoning than before, I'll give him that. Yet, if the vigilante hadn't killed Wright, and we didn't know he also was a loyalist, Daly would now be one of two who didn't vote for a confirmed townie. Today, the only thing Daly has said, was wondering about who killed Burbank, which was obvious, and the second part about staying rational when accused, which I actually find justified, but someone in private pointed out that it might be used later as an excuse after lynching further townies.
Flipz Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 *snip* Directing the vig, directing the cop... Stop it! For one thing, your gut feelings are terrible. And you don't want to look suspicious for misleading our power roles. In case you haven't noticed, Lt. Wheeler already pointed out to me how horrible my instincts are: but my "trusted" list has been cut in half, thanks to a keen-eyed officer pointing out a huge weakness of mine--a flaw in my very view of Mafia the world. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but at least I don't have blinders on anymore. And the fact is, no one did contact me last night--and given today's results even I have to admit it was a good idea for them not to. It's sort of self-evident at this point, so I didn't think I'd have to bring it up. Tsk tsk, I knew this would happen. Because of my quick rise to my rank, everyone's just looking for reasons to pull me down. Ah well, it was inevitable, I suppose. Why wouldn't I expect to be killed yesterday? I'm not trying to be egotistical here, but I should think the scum would want to get me out of the picture as quickly as possible, and since I was so low key yesterday due to real life circumstances officer-captain-y work, I'd make an ideal target. It didn't even occur to me that they'd take out Burbank like always. Not egotistical? Really? Just off the top of my head, in my sleep-deprived state, I can think of at least four people who would make far better targets, even as metagame kills. Yes it would have. It would have helped to catch the scum killer (I was a likely target, Burbank just got the bullet first), and possibly even the scum framer or something (if they thought I'd be investigated). In addition, I imagine that my rather unusual quietness yesterday drew some suspicious eyes, so there's always the chance that the watcher action could have confirmed some town actions as well. Honestly, I think it was a good idea. That last sentence was a joke. I'd really rather not have the responsibility of having to coordinate anything this time. You know, I generally do hold those who accuse me in a rather townie light, but man, you're basically just looking for reasons to suspect me. It's like you're going through our conversation and looking at every message I sent you and saying, "Hm, what kind of treachery can I pretend he's plotting with this message? " Quite simply, there is no 'case' against me. I haven't been towntelling as much as usual, but any 'scummy' things I've done are on level with scummy things practically everyone else has done. I'd appreciate it if y'all would stop singling me out. No, I'm going through our conversation and berating myself for missing the scumminess the first time I read them. Wheeler was right: I really do trust people too readily, and convince myself to miss blatant scumminess. I absolutely cannot afford to do that, especially with you. I wouldn't say it's that egotistical. It was a good idea, and I stand by it. And it's not like someone who acted like a major figure died last night. Burbank died because he's a frighteningly good player (as if this was a game..), and the scum didn't want to have to deal with him. Now, I'm nowhere near his level, but I think that's what the scum would think if they tried to kill me, but on a much, much smaller scale. Get it? Quite frankly, I was worried to die because I hate dying. This is the part that was egotistical. Well, at least you're admitting it now. That's something in your favor, at least. Right, so random and out of the blue things are scummy now. When did this happen? I don't think I got the memo. ...really? In situations like these, context is key; it can be the deciding factor between something scummy and something that's actively anti-Scum. When something is random and out-of-the-blue, you have no context, so you have to take it at first "read"--and your suggestion was quite scummy at first read. No, I did not. I saw no need to confer this fear to any of my other allies. *snip* And what's not 'pro-town' about it? Do elaborate on these imaginary reads, please. Here, I'll make a list of why it was super pro-town: 1. I might have gotten metagame killed. I don't like to think that this is the sort of thing that would happen to me, but it's almost happened before, so I took into account that it was a possibility. If the watcher had been on me and the scum had killed me, we would have caught the killer. Hoorah! 2. I might have been the target for townie actions. Whether metagame or not, I was probably the target for one or two town actions last night, as I wasn't the towniest person around yesterday. If the watcher had been on them, we would have been able to confirm some valuable night action townies. Hoorah! 3. Because I might have been the target for townie actions, I might have also been the target of scummie actions. Roles like framer might be a good idea to have on me because I will probably be the target for town actions. if the watcher had been on me and the framer had framed me, we would have caught the framer (assuming there is one). Hoorah! There you go. 1. If I had access to a Watcher last Night and had been thinking about metagame kills, I would have put them on Lt. Francis last night. He's FAR more of a metagame target than you. Actually, here's my list of suggested targets for last night; this is what I would have given to anyone who claimed to me: *Investigative (Cop, Tracker, etc., plus Blocker because of how it works): Commander Walters (Tamamono) or Ensign Rockford (Palathadric) *Protective (Doctor, Bodyguard, etc., plus the Watcher because of how it works): Lt. Francis (Shadows) or Lt. Burbank (Dragonator) or Lt. McAndrews (Brickdoctor) or Commander Gordon (Fugazi) *Killing (Vigilante and variants): Lt. Wright (AwesomeStar), as I had already stated that day. Aside from the Vig, the entirety of that list came from metagaming. Notice where you are on it: Investigative. Like it or not, your past influences your present. In the latest holodeck program, you were a Scum; (assuming that you really are Town) the Scum know this will make you look bad, and won't bother to kill you because you already draw scumdars away from them. 2. I cannot comment on this right now as I do not yet have permission to release this information. 3. That's fair, I suppose. Because the other townies didn't have the power to boss around the important actions, or at least didn't pretend to. Honestly, telling other townies that I thought I was going to die wouldn't have done anything. This mini-play will explain what I mean: Why Commander Cammy didn't need to tell anyone he was going to die - Part I Act I, Scene I Curtain opens on Commander Cammy strolling through the ship Enter Important Townie Cammy: Hi, Important Townie! I know you probably can't do anything about it, but I'm going to die! Important Townie: Uhh, Commander Cammy, what? Cammy: Bye bye now! The next morning, Commander Cammy's dead body is found Enter Important Townie and the Engineer with the accent. Engineer with the accent: Oh no! Commander Cammy is dead! Whatever shall we do? (I don't do accents, sorry) Important Townie: Ha! Well, I have some super important information today! Engineer with the accent: Oh, please do tell! Important Townie: Last night, Commander Cammy told me... he was going to die. Engineer with the accent: ... And how does that help us? Important Townie: Err, I'm not quite sure yet. Engineer with the accent: I don't think it helps us at all. ~Fin~ Plus, I don't think Wheeler likes me too much this time, so I wouldn't come crying to her with my fears. Allow me to counter with another play: The Case for Caution - Scene I Editor's note: This play contains hypothetical events. Any relevance to the actual situation is purely coincidental. Commander Walters: Eek! I think I'm going to die! I'm the most important Townie in the world--whatever will I do? Enter Important Townie #1 Who Everyone Thinks Knows All The Night Actions But Does Not Commander Walters: Oh, Important Townie #1 Who Everyone Thinks Knows All The Night Actions But Does Not, I'm soo scared! I think I'm going to die! Please put the Watcher on me so that when I, the Most Important Townie In The World-- Important Townie #1 Who Everyone Thinks Knows All The Night Actions But Does Not: *snicker* Commander Walters: Shut up. Please put the Watcher on me so that when I, the Most Important Townie In The World, am dead, we will definitely have the identity of their killer! And maybe the Doctor, so I don't, you know, die. Important Townie #1 Who Everyone Thinks Knows All The Night Actions But Does Not: Yeah, OK, whatever. Exit Important Townie #1 Who Everyone Thinks Knows All The Night Actions But Does Not Commander Walters: Oh dear, oh, my, I'm still scared. What it The Most Important Townie In The World supposed to do? I know! Enter Important Townie #2 Who Hates Commander Walters Commander Walters: Heeeeey! *Important Townie #2 Who Hates Commnander Walters starts walking quicker and attempts to avoid eye contact with Walters, but Walters is too quick. Commander Walters (Navi voice): Hey! Listen! Hey! Hey! Listen! Hey! Listen! (normal voice) Hey, listen, I'm The Most Important Townie In The World-- Important Townie #2 Who Hates Commnander Walters (still avoiding eye contact, under breath): Yeah, sure. Commander Walters: --and I think I am going to die. Can you put the Watcher, and maybe the Doctor, on me, so good thinge will happen? Exit Important Townie #2 Who Hates Commnander Walters, so quickly they leave an afterimage Commander Walters: Wow, I think they believed me that time, even though everyone remembers when I used to be a Scum! But I'm still scared I'm going to die, and that's terrible, because I'm The Most Important Townie In The World! Enter Important Townie #3 Who No-One Thinks Is In Contact With The Watcher But He Actually Is Commander Walters: Hey, Important Townie #3 Who No-One Thinks Is In Contact With The Watcher But He Actually Is! I don't think you're in contact with the Watcher or the Doctor, but if you know someone who does, could you put them on me? You see, I am The Most Important Townie In The World-- Important Townie #3 Who No-One Thinks Is In Contact With The Watcher But He Actually Is (aside to audience): Is he selling beer or something? Commander Walters: --and I am almost certain I am going to die, because the Scum will metagame target me. Commander Gordon, Lt. Francis, and Lt. Burbank double over with laughter Important Townie #3 Who No-One Thinks Is In Contact With The Watcher But He Actually Is (aside to audience): So he's not selling beer, he'r drinking it, I get it! Commander Walters: So could you tell people to put them on me even though there are much better targets out there? Commander Walters exits, speaking French...in Italian. Important Townie #3 Who No-One Thinks Is In Contact With The Watcher But He Actually Is: Hmm...I think I will put the Watcher on Commander Walters, even though there's no reason to. Watcher? Enter Watcher Watcher: Yeah boss? Important Townie #3 Who No-One Thinks Is In Contact With The Watcher But He Actually Is: I want you on Commander Walters. Watcher: OK! Re-enter Commander Walters. Watcher jumps on top of him, nearly crushing him. Commander Walters (obliviously): Gee, I hope someone listened to my plea! If not, I do not know what will happen to the Town, since after all I am The Most Important Townie In The World. I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I always drink Dos Gutsy. Stay townie, my friends! Exit Commander Walters and Watcher, stage right, pursued by a bear. End Scene I The Case for Caution - Scene II Scum, Scummo, and Scumbag sit in a dark alleyway, lit only by the light of an antique oil lantern. Scum: So, who do ya wanna kill? Scummo: I dunno, let's metagame. Any ideas? Scumbag: Erm...how about Commander Walters? There is a beat of silence. All: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Scum: Good one, Scumbag! Walters is WAY too scummy--just from last game alone--for us to mess with! Scummo: Yeah, let's leave him there to confuse the Town. Scumbag: OK, lets just kill Burbank and see what happens. Computer, End program. End Scene II The Case for Caution - Scene III Commander Walters: Yippee! I'm still alive! I guess the Important Townies realized I was The Most Important Townie In The World after all! Lt. Burbank's dead body attempts to punch Walters, but he's dead so it doesn't work Commander Walters: And good thing I didn't tell just Important Townie #1, since he had no real control over anything whatsoever! Enter Important Townies Important Townie #2: Dude, why weren't we watching Burbank last night?!? Important Townie #1: Yeah, I hope you didn't ACTUALLY listen to Walters... Important Townie #3: Erm...ehehehe... Important Townie #2: *Sigh* well, please tell me we got SOMETHING out of targetting him. Important Townie #3: *whisper whisper whisper* Important Townie #1: Well, better than nothing, I suppose. Still, Walters must be The Most Selfish Townie In The World. Important Townie #2: You're one to talk. Important Townie #1: Hey, I'm not selfish, I'm just stupid! All: ... Important Townie #1: Uh.... Curtain Of course, all that assumes you really are Town, something I'm not sure about at all. Here's a word of advice: Don't out anybody's role - even if it's vanilla. It helps the scum narrow down the PRs. I thought you knew that. I thought about that, but it was important to point out that you have no way of confirming anyone. Besides, if you're Scum, it's important for us to lock down your claim right away, so you can't change your story later on. You keep coming back to this even when it's a serious logical fallacy. You say that only people who contribute in the thread get killed, right? Well, what about Burbank? He didn't do much in the thread - he was just killed so that he wouldn't be able to get in the scums' way later in the situation. All right, so I'm wrong there. That doesn't change the fact that, no matter what the criteria for judgement is, there are still far more likely targets than you--several of them, in fact. I was actually joking about protection. However, if I had gotten killed and the doctor had saved me, that would be one less town dead in the morning, which is beneficial for the town. Also, of course the scum killer would come after me. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true. And Engineer With An Accent, there's no need to do bad imitations of my sexy, manly, captain voice. We can be civilized folk here. I'll give benefeit of the doubt there, but you certainly worded it poorly. You came off as desperate rather than joking. If you are Town, granted. I absolutely do not believe it, but I doubt I'll convince you of that. There was a scene in a holodeck novella called "Brave" that I was alluding to there. Yeah, that would have been good too. It's funny that you'd accuse people of seeming eager when you're out here begging for the people with the night actions to come to you. ... I'm not going to even bother responding to this. That's just how blatantly stupid it is. Anyone who believes it has caught a bad case of tunnel vision and needs to back off pronto. I suppose. See my response to Commander Gordon. If you must, chalk it up to inexperience, but I don't see why a non-Godfather Scum would be happy about drawing night actions. I suppose an argument could be made for you being Town based off of that, but still. A solid case. Really? Really? I can't tell if this is your inexperience showing or if you're just scum trying to twist the minds of the poor townies into lynching me, but either way, I'm not scum, and either way, I'm starting to see that the night action townies were right not to claim to you. Engineer With An Accent, I fully expect to be lynched today due to your idiotic theories, but I'll die with dignity. I'm currently the only real suspect, and you're tunneling on me like a madman. I'm not going to give up, though, and I will do all I can to prove you wrong, up until my dying breath. I admit, each piece of evidence I've pointed out is somewhat circumstantial. But together, they suggest (to me) that you are Scum. And Lietenant Jones, it seems you're always sure that whoever you accuse is scum. I wasn't expecting Ensign Robbins to be a Loyalist, either, but it would be nice if you'd refrain from expressing your certainty unless you're really certain. And you mentioned an officer who's build up a case against the commander? Are you going to tell us who said officer is, or where you just going to give us a piece of information, again, and then just wait for someone else to present the rest? That's just killing discussion. I don't vote unless I'm certain. Will I be wrong? Sometimes, certainly; I'd even go so far as to say that I'm commonly wrong. But I'm not going to pretend I don't believe something just because there's a possibility that I'm wrong about it. Certainly, Lt. Wheeler has had more than enough time to come forward, and yet she has not. Last night she told me she had assembled a good case against Walters; what I've presented is simply my perspective, from the information I've recieved. I'm sure Wheeler has plenty of additional evidence against Walters; she was convinced of his Scumminess FAR earlier than I was, and so has been gathering information longer than I have. Wow, gosh, have I really been writing this post talking for two hours? Well, now you know what's going on im my head. Go ahead and poke holes all through my line of thought; it's obvious that I suck at this, and I need the criticism in order to improve.
Brickdoctor Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Then, when the cases against Ensign Robbins and Ensign Wright came up, he decided to ignore the case against Robbins and instead go for Wright, which is not bad, but the reasoning isn't very strong: Basically he says that the only accusation against Robbins was that he was a janitor, while his behavior was definitely not pro-town. What does he say about Wright? Not much, in fact, the case against Wright, while IMO less valid than the one against Robbins, was far more than just that he didn't realize tensions were high. To be fair, Daly later, when asked, stated that he suspected Wright for excessive roleplaying (as if this was a game ) and for telling us to stop accusing each other. There's also this: Though, whoever killed Dragonator...what? why? ... Loyalists, I just hope we can at least learn from this that we all need to stay a little more calm and rational. Freaking out and backpedaling, those kinds of things just make us all suspicious of you and it would be great if we could catch an actual scum today. Daly tells us to be rational, but at the same time, doesn't seem to be able to figure out why Burbank was killed. And, as many have said, it's obvious why Burbank was killed. Acting confused when something happens that doesn't benefit the Town is a Scum-tell.
Dannylonglegs Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 *snip* Holy crap! Tammo in no way holds a monopoly on walls of text. So are you saying you've been in contact with someone who knows the watcher and you know the night's results? Are we actually getting somewhere? That aside, this massive post is relatively confusing. I suggest for future facility, just make multiple, smaller posts. It almost took 2 hours to read it! But there's someone I'd like to mention, who I am suspicious of: Lieutenant Daly. I did find some of her posts scummy early on, but later her posts showed reasoning. In my opinion, I don't think there's enough to call her scum. It's likely her newness to the game... of life that's tripping your scumdar.
Tamamono Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 It was however, really cowardly of the Scum to have killed Dragonator last night out of fear that he would become a bigger problem. However, this, I believe is why you, tammo--I mean Walters. Where'd that name 'Tammo' come from? --were not targeted. Well, yeah, obviously. They can't kill two in one night - that'd be unfair. As you can see there's potential for your own Lynch today, and the Scum wouldn't waste a night kill on what could easily become a day kill. That being said, you didn't ask to be investigated... only watched. This again? Hoo boy, you guys are really deadset on me today. I honestly didn't think I needed to ask to be investigated. Any investigator who's been with me since last time should know to do it on his own. I don't see your reasoning here. Why would low key make you a target of the scum? Unless of course, they thought you had a power role. From my experience, the only killer that would target someone playing low-key would be a serial killer, who aims for targets that would make a low impact, which I don't think you would be anyways. Low key targets are less likely to be protected, and thus better kills. As scum, I've metagame killed low key players because I've figured there's a higher chance of hitting them. Low key =/= sheepy. Not egotistical? Really? Just off the top of my head, in my sleep-deprived state, I can think of at least four people who would make far better targets, even as metagame kills. You're fun. No, I'm going through our conversation and berating myself for missing the scumminess the first time I read them. Wheeler was right: I really do trust people too readily, and convince myself to miss blatant scumminess. I absolutely cannot afford to do that, especially with you. Yeah, Engineer with an Accent, that's like a mafia boss calling himself a legitimate businessman. You're pushing on air, bucko. I'd suggest you stop unless you want to lynch another member of the town. ...really? In situations like these, context is key; it can be the deciding factor between something scummy and something that's actively anti-Scum. When something is random and out-of-the-blue, you have no context, so you have to take it at first "read"--and your suggestion was quite scummy at first read. It's not a scummy suggestion, and it never was. It may be an unorthodox suggestion, but not a scummy one. My context is in my own head, so I can't help you there. I was thinking about our situation and was thinking, "Hey, I'm probably going to get killed tonight! Maybe I should tell that guy pretending to have all the actions to have his watcher on me! That'd be a great suggestion." 1. If I had access to a Watcher last Night and had been thinking about metagame kills, I would have put them on Lt. Francis last night. He's FAR more of a metagame target than you. And thus, he's more of a protective target. You see, I'd be a metagame target, but I'm still a novice in comparison to people like Burbank and Francis. So therefore, I'm more of a middle road kind of kill, which guarantees more success. You'll learn about this when you roll scum - assuming you haven't already done so. *Investigative (Cop, Tracker, etc., plus Blocker because of how it works): Commander Walters (Tamamono) or Ensign Rockford (Palathadric) *Protective (Doctor, Bodyguard, etc., plus the Watcher because of how it works): Lt. Francis (Shadows) or Lt. Burbank (Dragonator) or Lt. McAndrews (Brickdoctor) or Commander Gordon (Fugazi) *Killing (Vigilante and variants): Lt. Wright (AwesomeStar), as I had already stated that day. Do not out what you wanted your roles to do. That is completely counterproductive. Aside from the Vig, the entirety of that list came from metagaming. Notice where you are on it: Investigative. Like it or not, your past influences your present. In the latest holodeck program, you were a Scum; (assuming that you really are Town) the Scum know this will make you look bad, and won't bother to kill you because you already draw scumdars away from them. Sure, just ignore the first day, where I showed what I can do as town. That's fine. Yes, I see now that it's possible they wanted me to look bad today, so they didn't kill me. Or perhaps Engineer With an Accent decided to leave me around so he could turn me into a scapegoat with my unorthodox suggestions. *insert mildly offensive and poorly written play here* Okay, yeah, I might have accidentally talked to someone who was talking to the watcher (or even to the watcher himself), so that makes sense. I had overlooked that. Man. I hate to say it because I like you a lot, but you're really getting under my skin with this empty push, so your being intentionally obnoxious does not help one bit. I thought about that, but it was important to point out that you have no way of confirming anyone. Besides, if you're Scum, it's important for us to lock down your claim right away, so you can't change your story later on. Meh. You're really putting way too much energy into 'securing' me, but okay. If you must, chalk it up to inexperience, but I don't see why a non-Godfather Scum would be happy about drawing night actions. I suppose an argument could be made for you being Town based off of that, but still. Yeah, since I'm perfectly fine with being investigated, and I just must be scum, I'm totally the godfather. It wouldn't make sense for me to be, you know, not scum. Here's a good rule of thumb: If you have to make a stretch like "Oh, he's not afraid of actions... Hmm... How can I make it seem like he's still scum... I know! He's the Godfather!", then you should give that person to benefit of the doubt. Things should fit. Although it's not like anyone else is going to get lynched.
Brickdoctor Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 This again? Hoo boy, you guys are really deadset on me today. ... Although it's not like anyone else is going to get lynched. I really don't think the case against you is that strong, and I still don't think that your asking to be Watched was that Scummy, but based on that, why do you keep acting as if there's already a bandwagon against you? [MegaBlokin' ginourmous snip] You know, being egotistical might not be a smart approach to this situation, and there is the chance that Walters was trying to draw a Watcher away, but I don't think it's that Scummy. As you said, he didn't tell anyone else about this, but I think that makes it less suspicious, because if he was trying to draw a Watcher away, I think he would try to tell more people and have a better chance of his request reaching a Watcher.
Dannylonglegs Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 I really don't think the case against you is that strong, and I still don't think that your asking to be Watched was that Scummy, but based on that, why do you keep acting as if there's already a bandwagon against you? You know, being egotistical might not be a smart approach to this situation, and there is the chance that Walters was trying to draw a Watcher away, but I don't think it's that Scummy. As you said, he didn't tell anyone else about this, but I think that makes it less suspicious, because if he was trying to draw a Watcher away, I think he would try to tell more people and have a better chance of his request reaching a Watcher. I agree. I don't really want to trust Tammo again so early, but I really don't understand most of the points made in the "case" against him, and most of the points that make him seem scummy are circumstantial.
Dakar A Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Wow. Okay. Hold on. Wow. Man, Okay. Wait, Waaaaiiiiit. I am not sure if you are serious here, to be honest. I love how people are actively trying to get the spotlight off Robbins. Don't try to hide it, it's happening, I can see it. This should be good. I was trying to back down, there is so much wrong with the statements he makes, but I did not want to give people the chance to slip through because the focus was too much on him, but it seems quite the opposite is happening now. There are people defending him, in one way or the other... Very interesting... From the way that Lt. Wheeler(Scubacarrot) was playing yesterday (mainly; taking an extreemly agressive stance against AwesomeStar, making posts just to make snarky comments, and other certiant personal "twitches" that make me feel as if he is trying to front a fake persona)gave me a gut feeling, and a nagging suspicion that there's something amiss. In regard to the Tamamono situation, I feel that he aptly defended himself, and that he is just concerned that his life is in danger. As a matter of fact, I remeber a scene from that Bedtime Story that Flipz told us about, where Cinderella, inder the impression that another strong Town personality was scum, led a bandwagon against her (goldilocks), and completely dismissed her solid defenses, ending up killing the Town's blocker.
Palathadric Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Must you two present your "evidence" and "defense" in so many words. It's like you're trying to ensure that nobody listens to what you're saying. From the way that Lt. Wheeler(Scubacarrot) was playing yesterday (mainly; taking an extreemly agressive stance against AwesomeStar, making posts just to make snarky comments, and other certiant personal "twitches" that make me feel as if he is trying to front a fake persona)gave me a gut feeling, and a nagging suspicion that there's something amiss. Lt. Wheeler is always like that. Disturbing? Yes, but not altogether scummy.
Brickdoctor Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 From the way that Lt. Wheeler(Scubacarrot) was playing yesterday (mainly; taking an extreemly agressive stance against AwesomeStar, making posts just to make snarky comments, and other certiant personal "twitches" that make me feel as if he is trying to front a fake persona)gave me a gut feeling, and a nagging suspicion that there's something amiss. Being aggressive is a Town-tell. Scum prefer to jump between suspects trying to agree with the rest of the votes and/or act unsure about their suspicions to give them an excuse if they lynch a Townie.
Shadows Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Are you telling the Vig not to kill, or not to take orders from the public? Are you honestly saying we should wait for evidence you just admitted is non-existent on day one, before the vig actually uses his/her power? Apart from the possibility that he could have been watched, the vig didn't make too bad a call yesterday. As I explained, he saved us a day lynch and let us all know that our thoughts yesterday were erroneous so that we can start fresh today. I'm asking that they don't repeat their mistake, and yes, they made a horrible call yesterday since they killed a member of the town. Would we really have made the same stupid decision to lynch today based on the clear mistaken thoughts from yesterday? If so, I'm a little concerned for our chances.
Peanuts Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 I'm asking that they don't repeat their mistake, and yes, they made a horrible call yesterday since they killed a member of the town. Would we really have made the same stupid decision to lynch today based on the clear mistaken thoughts from yesterday? If so, I'm a little concerned for our chances. No offense, but if the thoughts were clear mistaken, why didn't you tell us yesterday?
Bob Posted June 27, 2012 Author Posted June 27, 2012 Lieutenant Donna Willis / Fhomess woke up. "I feel like a new person!" she said.
Palathadric Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 No offense, but if the thoughts were clear mistaken, why didn't you tell us yesterday? I believe what he meant was that, if the vig hadn't killed him, then today we would have realized that our thoughts were clearly mistaken when Ensign Robbins came up as town.
Bob Posted June 27, 2012 Author Posted June 27, 2012 The Case of the Host that Hates Plays FADE IN: ACT ONE: Fleet Admiral Bob has the crowd of people assembled. Bob: Good luck on finding the bad guys everyone. ACT TWO: Everyone starts coming up with plays that are ridiculously hard to follow because I don't know what they're talking about or even referring too and I'm hosting the game. Bob: *is now confused* END
Brickdoctor Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I believe that this is the second time I've seen Daly read this topic enter the room after being accused and leave without saying anything. Let's apply some more pressure... I Vote: Arnold Daly (darkdragon).
Flipz Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 This again? Hoo boy, you guys are really deadset on me today. I honestly didn't think I needed to ask to be investigated. Any investigator who's been with me since last time should know to do it on his own. Then why didn't the Cop investigate you last Night? (This is not an accusation, I'm asking for your opinion here. I need to follow this up in private as well, thank you for pointing this out.) It's not a scummy suggestion, and it never was. It may be an unorthodox suggestion, but not a scummy one. My context is in my own head, so I can't help you there. I was thinking about our situation and was thinking, "Hey, I'm probably going to get killed tonight! Maybe I should tell that guy pretending to have all the actions to have his watcher on me! That'd be a great suggestion." I still think the suggestion was scummy, but whatever. It lies along the very fine line between "Scummy" and "unorthodox but still Townie", and even true Townies can behae scummily, so at this point we're sort of splitting hairs. The problem with that is, that's part of the reason I wanted the Scum to think I knew who the Power Roles were, so they would do exactly what you did: to contact me and try to steer the roles. I just wasn't expecting you to be the person I caught. But, to be fair, some of the reason it came off as scummy was due to my own context as well, so I suppose I can't entirely blame you. And thus, he's more of a protective target. You see, I'd be a metagame target, but I'm still a novice in comparison to people like Burbank and Francis. So therefore, I'm more of a middle road kind of kill, which guarantees more success. You'll learn about this when you roll scum - assuming you haven't already done so. Educate me--I really DON'T know these things. Obviously, the Scum thought taking out Lt. Burbank was a pretty good idea, and it turned out pretty darn well for them; how was their metagame target a worse target than you, from their perspective? (Again, I really am interested in the answer, beyond just what it says about your internal reasoning--though the passive assertion that I'm Scum is duly noted. ) Do not out what you wanted your roles to do. That is completely counterproductive. How? I mean, the list will be TOTALLY different tonight, since we'll have a totally different set of information to work from. Heck, if we suddenly went into another Night this very moment, there would be totally different priorities. Sure, just ignore the first day, where I showed what I can do as town. That's fine. As I recall, you did little more than to jump on an already-established bandwagon. Looking back, I can't really decide upon any one person who led Robbins' lynch, but I do know it wasn't me--and it wasn't you, either. Don't think so highly of yourself--over the past Day and Night I've certainly learned how weak and limited I am, I'm surprised you haven't made similar discoveries of your own in all the time you've been dealing with these situations. Yes, I see now that it's possible they wanted me to look bad today, so they didn't kill me. Or perhaps Engineer With an Accent decided to leave me around so he could turn me into a scapegoat with my unorthodox suggestions. I'd have an easier time accepting that you totally missed the possibilities I saw, if you weren't accusing me right back. It changes your apparent attitude from "OK, so I didn't see what you saw" to "if I'm going down, I'm taking you down with me." Okay, yeah, I might have accidentally talked to someone who was talking to the watcher (or even to the watcher himself), so that makes sense. I had overlooked that. Man. I hate to say it because I like you a lot, but you're really getting under my skin with this empty push, so your being intentionally obnoxious does not help one bit. In case you haven't noticed, plays are supposed to be obnoxious. If it makes you feel any better, I'm represented by "Important Townie #1," a.k.a. "The Stupidest Townie In The World." And at least you got to parody an awesome beer commercial. Meh. You're really putting way too much energy into 'securing' me, but okay. Yeah, since I'm perfectly fine with being investigated, and I just must be scum, I'm totally the godfather. It wouldn't make sense for me to be, you know, not scum. Here's a good rule of thumb: If you have to make a stretch like "Oh, he's not afraid of actions... Hmm... How can I make it seem like he's still scum... I know! He's the Godfather!", then you should give that person to benefit of the doubt. Things should fit. Well, when you put it like that... Keep in mind, this came not long after you bragged about being the first person to direct suspicion toward Robbins; while that may have been true, it also sounded an awful lot like that blue-haired boy in the holodeck program's boasts about catching the first Sith in the game--boasts that didn't really start until after he had been converted to Scum. On top of that, I was just realizing (thanks to Lt. Wheeler) how I trust people too easily and for the wrong reasons, and wondering why no one BESIDES Wheeler was talking to me, raising my paranoia ever further. (At one point I was so paranoid that I wondered if I was the only Townie among an entire crew full of Scum teams, like what happened in that prison break holodeck program I watched a while back.) Then you come along, falling exactly into a Scum trap I had set up, with...shall we say...sub-optimal wording, from my perspective. I may have blown things a little out of proportion, but based on what I had to work with, you seemed like a VERY likely Scum. I still think it's a possibility, but I'm not NEARLY certain about it , which means I can't in good conscience put my vote on it. We'll see if anything happens to change my mind one way or the other. Although it's not like anyone else is going to get lynched. Not necessarily--there's ALWAYS another target. I don't know how much I believe it, but I've heard plenty of people say that giving up when accused is a scumtell. If you're not Scum, then you need to make sure you don't get lynched--an apology for mistakes made seems like a good start. I'll start off: Commander, I apologize for being rude and overly pushy and blowing things out of proportion and having absolutely abyssmal instincts in this situation, and for insulting you perhaps more than was necessary in my play. Forgive me?
Darkdragon Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 I believe that this is the second time I've seen Daly read this topic enter the room after being accused and leave without saying anything. Let's apply some more pressure... I Vote: Arnold Daly (darkdragon). Hey there. Sorry, It is very difficult to read all the wall of text posts on my phone and that's why I haven't replied, just got to my actual computer. I am going back through the whole day right now and will reply, but honestly I didn't even know I had been accused until I saw this post. Please stand by for a new transmission in a bit.
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