The Hobbit movies discussion

[Fives]

So a new trailer is to be released today. Sometime soon, I think. I can't wait!

[Leo604]

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az6FX6bOY-o

[SteampunkDoc]

I love it! I was a bit put-off by the CGI-ness of the last trailer, but this more than makes up for it. Great visuals, Smaug, a focus on Bilbo, Smaug's voice, Thorin beginning to turn evil, Smaug being amazing, the Dul Goldor army, Smaug being threatening, Beorn, oh, and Smaug.

The only thing I'm not keen on is the Legolas love story, but since she isn't mentioned in LOTR, it obviously has to end in these movies.

Today's trailer seemed to to a better job at looking at characters, and setting up the plot than the last one. And while it didn't include any of Howard Shore's music, (That I know of) it still managed a very strong Middle-Earth feel.

And out of all that, at the very least we get some more Smaug.

[Fives]

This trailer is amazing. I've watched it nearly ten times today.

It is obvious that this movie is gonna be a lot darker than the first. I love Thranduil and everything they've done with his kingdom. I'm intrigued by the Legolas/Tauriel love story. While not mentioned anywhere in any of Tolkien's writings, I like it. LOTR had Aragorn and Arwen, Aragorn and Eowyn, Eowyn and Faramir, and Sam and Rosie. The Hobbit needs something like that, and why not have it be between Legolas and Tauriel. I'm excited to see where PJ takes it, and if by the end of the trilogy we won't feel like Legolas should be different in LOTR because of it.

I'm glad we got a better look at the spiders. I love the way they look, but I'm curious as to whether they will be able to speak in some way like they did in the book. I remember reading something that said PJ would have Bilbo be able to understand the spiders only when wearing the Ring, and that the reason for this is that the spiders are spawn of Ungoliant, one of Morgoth's original servants, and that through Sauron's connection to all things evil, Bilbo could understand them through the Ring world. But I don't know if that is something he actually did, so I'm excited to find out, and I'll be happy either way.

Also, we got a look at what seemed to be a huge Mordor orc army marching near Dol Guldur, hinting at a much larger battle than I was expecting. I wonder if they will have the entire White Council using their full powers to destroy the army, or if Elrond and Galadriel will bring Elven forces from both Rivendell and Lorien to aid Gandalf and Radagast. Can't wait to see!

Lastly, there is Smaug... Benedict Cumberbatch is PERFECT! The voice could not be better. It is exactly how I imagined Smaug sounding: fierce, powerful, yet calm, suave, with an overall feeling of surety of his magnificent self. He also looks like he is gonna be HUGE!

The only thing I wish we could've seen was Stephen Fry as the Master of Laketown and Bolg. I really hope Bolg is in this one, and not saved until the third film. It would make sense for him to be there, because then there would be three different father-son relationships being explored (Thranduil/Legolas, Bard/Bain, Azog/Bolg).

Regardless, this should be enough to keep me content till December, as long as we get images of the sets soon!

[CMP]

The only thing I'm not keen on is the Legolas love story, but since she isn't mentioned in LOTR, it obviously has to end in these movies.

I thought PJ was a little less predictable than that, really, but whatever.

I loved it too. Smaug's voice is spectacular in my opinion, and I'm also glad that Thorin's kind of turning away from the noble, exiled prince he was framed as in AUJ. I'm super excited.

[The Legonater]

I was under the impression that PJ had directly stated there'd be no Legolas/Tauriel love story. I'm definitely disappointed that it seems to be making it into the movie.

Besides that, everything in this trailer was great. I knew as soon as I saw Into Darkness that Cumberbatch had the perfect dragon voice, and this proves it. Very excited to see this movie!

[Fives]

I was under the impression that PJ had directly stated there'd be no Legolas/Tauriel love story. I'm definitely disappointed that it seems to be making it into the movie.

Besides that, everything in this trailer was great. I knew as soon as I saw Into Darkness that Cumberbatch had the perfect dragon voice, and this proves it. Very excited to see this movie!

I remember PJ saying that there wouldn't be a romance between Legolas and Tauriel, but it seems from that trailer that it's Legolas who is attracted to Tauriel, but she doesn't feel the same way. It may be an attempt to make Legolas more 'human', and accentuate Tauriel's cold, warrior-like personality. And this may be a way to create an interesting relationship/conflict between Legolas and Thranduil.

[Leo604]

I remember PJ saying that there wouldn't be a romance between Legolas and Tauriel, but it seems from that trailer that it's Legolas who is attracted to Tauriel, but she doesn't feel the same way. It may be an attempt to make Legolas more 'human', and accentuate Tauriel's cold, warrior-like personality. And this may be a way to create an interesting relationship/conflict between Legolas and Thranduil.

Is the Kili-Tauriel romance still in play?

[Fives]

Is the Kili-Tauriel romance still in play?

No. It was just a rumour.

[Leo604]

No. It was just a rumour.

Shame; I thought that would've made for an interesting plot considering the long-standing enmity between their 2 races, and the fact they are of different races.

[SheepEater]

I suspect Tauriel will die at the battle of five armies.

You heard it here first!

Edited October 9, 2013 by SheepEater

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I'm just hoping that PJ does the Dol Guldur arc properly and gives us Khamul as the 'Wraith-in-charge' and not that usurper Witch King! (who's still IIRC locked in his magical tomb at this point in the books...) The poor Easterlings don't ever get proper respect darnit!

[Mr Man]

I'm just hoping that PJ does the Dol Guldur arc properly and gives us Khamul as the 'Wraith-in-charge' and not that usurper Witch King! (who's still IIRC locked in his magical tomb at this point in the books...) The poor Easterlings don't ever get proper respect darnit!

Well considering that the Witch King was the one who attacked Radagast in the first film I'd say it's unlikely. Also I think Khamûl was only named in 'Unfinished Tales' which PJ doesn't have the rights to, hence the wonky timeline of the Dol Guldur / Murkwood stuff in the films.

[Fives]

Found an interesting article over at TheOneRing.net that analyses the Necromancer's role in DOS. It contains slight spoilers thanks to the action figure descriptions of the Bridge Direct toys.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/09/10/78684-analysing-the-role-of-the-necromancer-in-the-hobbit/

[Leo604]

Found an interesting article over at TheOneRing.net that analyses the Necromancer's role in DOS. It contains slight spoilers thanks to the action figure descriptions of the Bridge Direct toys.

http://www.theonerin...-in-the-hobbit/

Well this certainly makes sense, and the undead part fits in with how Radagast described the Necromancer; 'one who can summon the spirits of the dead', if I recall correctly.

[Fives]

Well this certainly makes sense, and the undead part fits in with how Radagast described the Necromancer; 'one who can summon the spirits of the dead', if I recall correctly.

Yeah. Necromancy has always been the power to bring back the dead. And it now kinda makes sense of Thrain attacking Gandalf at Dol Guldur. Zombie Thrain. Makes a whole lot of sense.

[Niku]

Yeah. Necromancy has always been the power to bring back the dead. And it now kinda makes sense of Thrain attacking Gandalf at Dol Guldur. Zombie Thrain. Makes a whole lot of sense.

Wow this a whole new concept I am surprised by this assumptions.

Thanks for sharing.

[Ardelon]

So, I know it's rather risky to infer storylines from LEGO sets (*cough* – Yazneg – *cough*), but does anyone have any insights based on the sets? Will we see Azog at Dol Guldur (instead of Bolg as was expected, instead of none of them as in the book...), or will he stick to chasing the Dwarves and was his minifig thrown into the DGB set for other reasons?

What I'm worried about is that we will see the Necromancer in a corporeal humanoid form with defined features (assuming the designers made the fig as accurately as they did Beorn), flying in the face of continuity and turning him from an uncertain evil presence in the background to basically a cape-flourishing dude in black...

[Fives]

So, I know it's rather risky to infer storylines from LEGO sets (*cough* – Yazneg – *cough*), but does anyone have any insights based on the sets? Will we see Azog at Dol Guldur (instead of Bolg as was expected, instead of none of them as in the book...), or will he stick to chasing the Dwarves and was his minifig thrown into the DGB set for other reasons?

What I'm worried about is that we will see the Necromancer in a corporeal humanoid form with defined features (assuming the designers made the fig as accurately as they did Beorn), flying in the face of continuity and turning him from an uncertain evil presence in the background to basically a cape-flourishing dude in black...

My two cents:

I think the idea of Azog being at Dol Guldur is plausible. The one thing that would really help bring the two trilogies together is not allowing orcs to act independently; that they rely on Sauron for orders and direction. My theory (based on the theory that I posted earlier from TheOneRing.net) is that Bolg made a deal with Sauron to bring Azog back from the dead so he could complete his mission of destroying the line of Durin, and in return vowed to serve Sauron at Dol Guldur and that he and Azog would be forced to fight for Sauron if summoned. So if my theory is anywhere within the ball park of accuracy (which is a slim chance), then perhaps Azog's involvement at Dol Guldur is because he is obliged to be there due to his life-debt to the Dark Lord.

As for the Necromancer's physical appearance and involvement in the battle, I believe that we only saw a very small glimpse of the Necromancer in AUJ. I think his full appearance (which may have a face of some sort) will be revealed in DOS, and hopefully LEGO's minifig is accurate. If the appearance isn't changed from how he looked in AUJ, it will mean two things: 1. LEGO's fig will be inaccurate to the film, which is sad, and 2. any performance from Benedict Cucumberpatch will have been wasted on a character who is only a silhouette and just looks creepy from a distance.

[Scorpiox]

Do we know for certain that Bolg is in this film? It'd make a lot of sense if Azog just filled in his positions in the book, seeing as he is quite clearly the co-leading baddie.

[Leo604]

IMDB has Conan Stevens (Gregor Clegane in GoT Season 1) cast as Bolg on their DoS page; I'm guessing we'll see him in a similiar role to what Yazneg had, except a little more ruthless and tougher.

[Fives]

IMDB has Conan Stevens (Gregor Clegane in GoT Season 1) cast as Bolg on their DoS page; I'm guessing we'll see him in a similiar role to what Yazneg had, except a little more ruthless and tougher.

I bet his role will be a little bigger than Yazneg's. He is Azog's son, after all.

[Ardelon]

I bet his role will be a little bigger than Yazneg's. He is Azog's son, after all.

It's possible that PJ and co. will not make Bolg Azog's son, if they keep Bolg in the story. I personally can't imagine any father-son dynamic between them, and it would seem OOC for a ruthless Orc torturemaster like Bolg to come running to Sauron to bring back his daddy. But who knows, maybe the Orcs will finally be given some hidden depths after so long. And it will be interesting to see whether they will give a deeper meaning to the title "Necromancer"...

I myself like the idea of there being independent sources of "evil", rather than one chessmaster behind every bad thing that happens - it just makes the world seem richer and deeper. That's one thing I enjoyed abouth the Hobbit - every group of antagonists was independent and had their own agenda (hungry Trolls, thieving Goblins with an old grudge, hungry spiders, suspicious Elves, and then the dragon). If Sauron was behind everything, it would look like hardly anyone has any free will, which Tolkien himself was pretty big on. Not to mention that Azog seems to be his own master, and I feel his standing as a dangerous Orc cheftain and top threat to Thorin's company would be diminished if he turns out to be just obeying orders.

[Fives]

^ I see where you're coming from, and I agree that I liked the independence of the villains in the book. But in the context of the films, I think that the wider movie watching population would understand the connection of the Necromancer story and Sauron during the War of the Ring if he still has dominion over his servants.

Also, I believe that the DOS Empire magazine issue talked about the multiple father/son relationships in the film. We see Legolas and Thranduil, Bard and Bain, and Azog and Bolg. And PJ himself said that they are the two most serious orcs they've had in theses films yet.

[Faefrost]

For those that missed it. ITunes has the Extended version of TUJ available. Overall it's mostly a vast improvement. Fans of Lore and the Thranduil lovers will be thrilled. It really fleshes out a few scenes. Such as that initial flashback with Thror and Thranduil. A much deeper White Council. And a much improved and more classic Goblin town (complete with cheesy musical number.) some nice expanded Rivendell stuff, and a naked dwarf scene that I could have lived without.

Sadly I hate to admit it. But it's probably a must have for the Tolkien fans. It's a shame they didn't trim down the stupid stone giant scene or the 45 minutes of pointless New Zealand travelogue of Dwarves running over landscape.