The Hobbit movies discussion

[Cammo]

The first reviews are in and it looks like it's much better than the first one. (And I already enjoyed the first one :)l

Edited December 10, 2013 by Cammo

[Ultron]

I'm so excited for this movie! But I'm also very nervous. I can almost guarantee Smaug won't die in this movie which really disappoints me. I bet PJ will keep him around until the battle of 5 armies which is complete bull. I'm also very nervous about the flies and spiders scene. It's my favorite scene in all of the books and I've been waiting 6+ years to see it in a movie. And it'll be ruined because it seems the elves are fighting the spiders and rescuing the dwarves. That makes me soooooo mad because it was supposed to be Bilbo's defining moment but I guess character development doesn't mean anything to PJ. It also seems to me that they are bringing Legolas back just to draw fans in. I'm fine with him being in the movie because he technically would be there being the prince of mirkwood and all, but practically half of the trailer is dedicated to legolas. I just want him to be there. Have a few a *FEW* lines and maybe a scene or two. Not have this movie turn into "Legolas....and some screen time for characters actually in the book". It just seems like it's going to be absolutely nothing like the book. Which really saddens me. I love the LOTR movies but if you generally look at them in terms of accuracy, they're awful. Especially the first Hobbit movie. Another thing I'm angry about is (**potential spoiler** not really though) I saw a cutscene of Thorin talking to Bard in laketown. In this scene he offers to share the gold in erebor with everyone. WTF. Thorin is greedy as hell and would NEVER offer to share it with anyone!!! That's like what the entire conflict of the book stems from after Smaug dies! Everyone wants some gold but Thorin won't give it up! But now Thorin is generous. Complete crap!

[Faefrost]

Another thing I'm angry about is (**potential spoiler** not really though) I saw a cutscene of Thorin talking to Bard in laketown. In this scene he offers to share the gold in erebor with everyone. WTF. Thorin is greedy as hell and would NEVER offer to share it with anyone!!! That's like what the entire conflict of the book stems from after Smaug dies! Everyone wants some gold but Thorin won't give it up! But now Thorin is generous. Complete crap!

They actually do give some room for that in the extended edition of TUJ. Armitage never portrays Thorin as greedy. Rather he protects and wants what he feels is rightfully his peoples, and resents those that failed to help. But the reason Elrond and the White Council do not want Thorin returning to the mountain is they fear he will fall victim to the same source of greed as his Grandfather. One of the 7 Dwarven Rings. So at that scene you saw he might not yet be under its influence. This may change before the end.

[Leo604]

From what Luna said about that cutscene the plot line I think would happen is when Bard shows up, Thorin will scold him and the men in Lake-town for not helping him retake Erebor, they don't deserve any of the rewards, etc, etc.

Also, in the movie did they change it so that one of the rings is still in Erebor, or does it still follow the book in that Thrain had it with him in Dol Guldur? I'm just wondering cause Faefrost mentioned its possible influence on Thorin.

[Ultron]

From what Luna said about that cutscene the plot line I think would happen is when Bard shows up, Thorin will scold him and the men in Lake-town for not helping him retake Erebor, they don't deserve any of the rewards, etc, etc.

Also, in the movie did they change it so that one of the rings is still in Erebor, or does it still follow the book in that Thrain had it with him in Dol Guldur? I'm just wondering cause Faefrost mentioned its possible influence on Thorin.

I think Thrain still had it with him in Dol Guldur. In the lego set of Dol guldur, there's one of the rings under a statue.

They actually do give some room for that in the extended edition of TUJ. Armitage never portrays Thorin as greedy. Rather he protects and wants what he feels is rightfully his peoples, and resents those that failed to help. But the reason Elrond and the White Council do not want Thorin returning to the mountain is they fear he will fall victim to the same source of greed as his Grandfather. One of the 7 Dwarven Rings. So at that scene you saw he might not yet be under its influence. This may change before the end.

I'll have to give it a watch!

[Ardelon]

I'm so excited for this movie! But I'm also very nervous. I can almost guarantee Smaug won't die in this movie which really disappoints me. I bet PJ will keep him around until the battle of 5 armies which is complete bull. I'm also very nervous about the flies and spiders scene. It's my favorite scene in all of the books and I've been waiting 6+ years to see it in a movie. And it'll be ruined because it seems the elves are fighting the spiders and rescuing the dwarves. That makes me soooooo mad because it was supposed to be Bilbo's defining moment but I guess character development doesn't mean anything to PJ. It also seems to me that they are bringing Legolas back just to draw fans in. I'm fine with him being in the movie because he technically would be there being the prince of mirkwood and all, but practically half of the trailer is dedicated to legolas. I just want him to be there. Have a few a *FEW* lines and maybe a scene or two. Not have this movie turn into "Legolas....and some screen time for characters actually in the book". It just seems like it's going to be absolutely nothing like the book. Which really saddens me. I love the LOTR movies but if you generally look at them in terms of accuracy, they're awful. Especially the first Hobbit movie. Another thing I'm angry about is (**potential spoiler** not really though) I saw a cutscene of Thorin talking to Bard in laketown. In this scene he offers to share the gold in erebor with everyone. WTF. Thorin is greedy as hell and would NEVER offer to share it with anyone!!! That's like what the entire conflict of the book stems from after Smaug dies! Everyone wants some gold but Thorin won't give it up! But now Thorin is generous. Complete crap!

We'll see how it plays out. Maybe there will be more than one battle with the spiders - one for Bilbo to shine in, one for the Elves to give us some kickass action. Or the Elves might simply finish off the spiders that Bilbo already drove off. And we don't know yet how big a role Legolas will play, either (well, those of us that haven't seen the movie yet, anyway).

As for Smaug, I'm OK with him not dying, it means two movies with Smaug... And pushing his reveal to the end of the movie means more screen time for the Mirkwood Elves and Lake Town, which is great in my book.

As for Thorin, I think the scene makes sense. He has to get the Lake men on his side, since the Dwarves are dependent on them for aid (and to prevent the Lake men to simply turn them over to the Elvenking). I also believe that at this point he really did intend to share the weath of Erebor, and his descent into "gold-sickness" and greed will be an interesting plot point. Furthermore, though it wasn't stated in the book, the company spent quite a bit of time in Lake Town, so I imagine that even in the book he would have had to make some promises of this sort...

I think Thrain still had it with him in Dol Guldur. In the lego set of Dol guldur, there's one of the rings under a statue.

Eh... it just might be a nod to book fans, similar to the portraits and rods of the five wizards in the Orthanc set.

[Fives]

The fact that Smaug doesn't make an appearance till nearly the end of the movie is kinda a huge sigh of relief. I was so worried that this movie would be too jam packed with stuff, and ultimately feel rushed. I'm glad we'll get more time with Beorn, the Elves, and Laketown. I think these three major sections of the book will be the main focus of this film, along with all the Dol Guldur stuff, with entering Erebor and confronting Samug being the climax, leaving film three to cover Smaug's attack on Laketown, the dwarves arming up in Erebor, the negotiations before the BO5A, Bilbo sneaking away with the Arkenstone, the battle itself, and Bilbo's return journey.

[4WD]

So the soundtrack (standard and deluxe) came out today!

Thoughts? I'm a soundtrack freak and I love it so far. I've listened up to 'The Forest River' (10/29 songs), but I know the best songs will be devoted to everyone's favourite dragon.

Also, three days until release!

[Cammo]

Listening right now. They all are so loud and climactic. I do prefer a relaxing tune now and then. It's not bad but An unexpected Journey was better. Only at 14/29 songs though. 'On the Doorstep' is one of my favourite tracks.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Cammo

[Dragonfire]

I have read a few of the reviews. These spoilers may not be accurate. Highlight the words in between the red text (I don't know how to make spoiler tags) for the spoilers!

[spoilerS] Smaug is confirmed not to die at the end of the film. All of the dwarves enter Erebor and attack him, but he flies off to attack Laketown anyway (this is the end scene). The Beorn scenes are very short. The events taking place in the Dol Guldur Battle set do not happen in the film (but probably in the next film). As of the end of the film, Gandalf is trapped in a cage in Dol Guldur. Legolas is attracted to Tauriel, who does not return his affections and is instead attracted to Kili. Kili almost dies from a poisoned arrow. Bombur has no lines at all. Bolg appears briefly. [spoilerS]

[4WD]

Listening right now. They all are so loud and climactic. I do prefer a relaxing tune now and then. It's not bad but An unexpected Journey was better. Only at 14/29 songs though. 'On the Doorstep' is one of my favourite tracks.

I agree that An Unexpected Journey had a stronger beginning. I haven't finished the entire score yet but I have yet to hear the Dwarf motif (Misty Mountains sans lyrics) and that saddens me. 'Feast of Starlight' was pretty nice though. Back to listening!

[Cammo]

Haven't encountered this track on the album but this one is still my favourite:

[4WD]

Oh nice! I don't think you'll find it on the official soundtrack though. I can't find 'Age of Dragons' for you, but I do see 'New Beginning' on iTunes. The album is Existence by Audiomachine.

[Cammo]

Last vlog before release:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152044014321558

[Ultron]

Saw it last night at midnight and can honestly say I hated it. That was not what my father read to me when I was little. It was the worst adaptation of a book I've ever seen. It just deviated from the book so much that I wanted to get up and leave. I'm just so disappointed. Peter Jackson tries so hard to connect this with the other trilogy that it makes me mad. They're two separate stories so keep them that way god. I'm sure people who read the book will like it but any true fan shouldn't. To be completely and utterly honest, if you're a true fan and you liked it then you should be ashamed. If Tolkien wouldn't like it why should you. Great job appealing to the true fans, PJ. Great job.

[Mr Man]

So 'no true Scotsman'

It's an adaptation of The Hobbit and of Unfinished Tales.

I liked the first one, I'll probably like the second and the third, and I would consider myself a 'true fan'.

[Ultron]

So 'no true Scotsman'

It's an adaptation of The Hobbit and of Unfinished Tales.

I liked the first one, I'll probably like the second and the third, and I would consider myself a 'true fan'.

Sorry, I just got a little heated. I liked the first movie for the most part but I could barely watch this one. I might have been a little dramatic though with the "true fan" part. And I get that it's an adaptation of the hobbit and the unfinished tales but the hobbit part of that adaptation is not accurate in the slightest. Maybe catching fire being so close to the book just set me up for failure, idk

[into the blue]

*rse-numbingly over-long with a 50% this-wasn't-in-the-book factor.

The sequence at the end with the dwarves and Smaug was like something from a video game.

Not impressed.

Edited December 13, 2013 by into the blue

[CMP]

The sequence at the end with the dwarves and Smaug was like something from a video game.

I'm glad they had a plan at least...in the book it seemed like they were so set on getting to Erebor they didn't have a damn clue on how to kill Smaug.

Much faster paced than the first. Also deviates much more from the book, usually to add actions sequences or remove the goofy antics that people seemed to have an issue with in the first movie (except Bombur's little detour on the river). In my father's words 'this was the worst movie ending since Empire Strikes Back'. I don't know. The pace was already so quick it'd be hard to cut enough stuff to fit Smaug's death into it. There was not enough Bilbo. But I enjoyed his moment with the Ring in Mirkwood....very foreboding. Balin and Thorin remain the only dwarves with any serious character development, though Bofur and Fili had some moments. I liked Bard! I was afraid he'd be some sort of carbon copy of Aragorn, was glad to see that's not the case. Legolas was Legolas. Tauriel, well, was exactly as I feared she'd be. Less blatant romance overtones and she would've been fine...I did like the FotR reference as she healed Kili.

I don't know if I like it more than the first. I need to see it again. (And probably again after that. )

Gandalf was great. As usual. The LEGO set with the goofy phantom-type thing had me fooled; Sauron's appearance was quite fitting. I loved the FotR reference in that scene. And I believe this explains why Gandalf's staff is different...?

Edited December 13, 2013 by CallMePie

[Fives]

Just saw the film. Holy Hobbits was it amazing!

Here are my thoughts, broken down by major scenes:

I loved the prologue in Bree. It was helpful because it explained why Thorin was on his mission in the first place. Plue, PJ's cameo was hilarious!

Then we're back with the group, and its quick. Beorn was awesome. Perfect. The one problem: there wasn't enough of him. His scenes were really short. Hopefully they make up for this in TABA.

Bolg's introduction was really cool. I like how Azog kinda seemed to hate him. I really hope their relationship gets expanded in TABA.

Mirkwood was really cool. The whole hallucination bit was funny and clever, and the spiders sequence was very true to the book. Bilbo getting carried away against that creepy white spider was really cool, and started to develop the Ring's character. Very good.

Then Leggy and Tauriel pop in and capture the dwarves. All the scenes involving Thranduil and stuff seemed way too rushed for some reason. I just feel like Thranduil got less screen time than he deserved, and the Tauriel/Kili romance, while cute at some parts, was given too much attention. Bad move on PJ's part.

The barrel scene was stupendous! One of the most fast paced action sequences that I've seen in a while. So much stuff was going on, and while it required a serious suspension of disbelief, it was just so fun! And Bombur stole the scene!

After that, we meet Bard. He is awesome. I really like the humanity they gave the character. being a widower, and a sort of Robin Hood of Laketown, made him the most relatable character, next to Bilbo. All the scenes in Laketown were great. The Master was perfect, I just wish we got to see more of him. Alfrid was also. Kinda felt like a toned down Grima. I felt like Laketown, its style and feel, could be from a Shakespeare play. It just had a very Shakespearean feel, which gave it a genuine sense of uniqueness when pinned against all the various cultures in Middle-Earth.

When the dwarves headed to Erebor, I was bothered that some stayed behind. It was all just an excuse to get Tauriel and Kili back together. However, that being said, them being in Laketown when Smaug attacks will add something more to that whole scene in TABA, so thats a plus.

Then we get to Erebor. All the stuff at the door was good (the moonlight felt like a nod to the Gates of Moria in FOTR), but its once we get inside that we get treated to the best bits of the whole trilogy so far.

Smaug stole the show! He is now my favourite character in anything ever! His design was so perfect, and Cumberbatch's performance was amazing! He just gave this feeling like theres no way to relate to this huge creature, yet theres still a certain level of humanity in him. Very eerie.

However, the action scene at the end with the Dwarves vs. Smaug felt... out of place. It almost didn't feel like Middle-Earth after a while. It almost felt like I was watching some random sic-fi/fantasy, and it ultimately took away from the film.

But the cliffhanger ending... it left me speechless and at the verge of tears.

Overall, amazing! Not flawless, but better than the first. My biggest worry: how the heck does LEGO plan on making Smaug! I knew he'd be big, but holy crap! He'd need to be the length of Orthanc!

[SheepEater]

Just came back from watching it.

Liked:

- Smaug. :dangry: :dangry:

- The locations: Mirkwood, the elf palace, lake town, Erebor. Fantastic.

- Thorin beginning to act like the haughty, greedy, egostical dick he is in the book. Richard Armitage is great.

- The Mirkwook Spiders scene. The Lego set made me fear Bilbo wouldn't get his chance to shine, but thankfully they didn't screw that part up.

Didn't like:

- the love triangle

- Leaving Bofur, Fili and Kili behind in Lake town.Especially Bofur, because he overslept? WTF?

- Too many orcs. Orcs, orcs everywhere. I'm surprised they didn't give Smaug his own personal Orc army while they were at it.

Edited December 15, 2013 by SheepEater

[The Legonater]

So, I saw it last night. Fairly impressed.

The prologue was pretty well done. Love that PJ was basically the first character in the movie.

After that, the beginning was a little odd. I was expecting it to start with them leaving the Carrock, not suddenly on the run again. Also, pretty disappointing in the way they did the whole Beorn scene. The transformation sequence was pretty cool, but other than that, I was disappointed. It was one of the more prominent scenes that was changed, not just added to. In the end, it felt like the scene was really necessary at all.

Mirkwood was really cool, though. Lots of subtle stuff going on with Bilbo and the Ring. I was really excited that they actually had the spiders talk, unlike most of the animals so far. Some feel differently, but I like how the Elves didn't really subtract from Bilbo freeing the Dwarves. Speaking of which, really loved the way the Elf Palace was done. Not how I visualized it, but still very cool. Thranduil was amazing, and I liked the sense they gave that he was at the Battle of Gondolin or something along those lines fighting dragons. Again, people may disagree with this, but I feel Legolas' appearance was thankfully not as egregious as it could have been. There were a few moments that bothered me, but I'll talk about that later. I actually feel the Tauriel/Kili content was pretty downplayed, and felt a lot more natural than how they did Aragorn/Arwen.

I was probably most worried about the barrel scene after watching the trailers, but it was actually a lot of fun. It definitely captures some of the mad-cap adventure of the original book. A bit saddened to see everyone without their weapons, though. Is Orcrist still in the Palace? I hope they get those back, they were major parts of the characters. They managed to segue into introducing Bard pretty well, who was a really cool character in his own right.

Lake-Town was really interesting, and was basically the point in the main plot where things really began to be added. All the Necromancer stuff was alluded to in various sources of the Legendarium, but this was largely new. The movie added a lot to the political situation that wasn't in the book, but it made for some really interesting scenes. I loved, loved the moved when Thorin stepped up the stairs with his theme playing triumphantly, something about it was just so kingly. It definitely sold Thorin as a future leader of the dwarves for me. I was initially unsure about leaving behind four of the dwarves, but I do feel it helped all the dwarves stand out individually more.

What bugged me the most about Lake-Town was the whole orc attack. Them at the barrel chase was a bit odd, but it worked. This felt really off for some reason. Of all the scenes, this felt the most blatant excuse for a Legolas fight, which was disappointing because in the end Bolg ran away. I suppose he has to be at the Battle of the 5 Armies, but having Legolas fight him and not kill him was really anti-climactic, and kind of ruined the already odd sequence. Still, having everyone at Lake-Town while Smaug attacks will be cool.

Before I talk about Erebor, I'm going to jump into the Necromancer arc, which actually felt really short. It was essentially everyone saying 'Sauron is coming' 20 different ways. Unlike a lot of people the existence of this arc doesn't annoy me as this was basically what Gandalf was doing at the time, but for this installment it felt like some pretty wasted opportunity. On the plus side we got to see Gandalf really using his abilities for once.

Erebor was beautiful, like in the first movie. There a sad desolate feel to it, though, which was definitely appropriate. Seeing Thorin slowly unhinge as he got closer to the Arkenstone was great, as well as Bilbo being subtly affected by the ring. Words don't describe how well done Smaug was. Cumberbatch had the perfect voice, and the animation was flawless. I loved the effect when he gets ready to breathe fire, very cool.

That said, everything kind of fell apart in the third act. As mentioned above, the Lake-Town battle felt forced, and the Dwarves attacking Smaug was even worse. It was impressive, sure, but it felt totally overblown, and far too elaborate. I liked where they were going with them all splitting up, but sadly it wasn't payed off as I felt it would.

That ending, though. Many complained, but I definitely feel Ed Sheeran's song perfectly fits the mood of those final shots. Even knowing what was happening, the way they did I felt completely shocked.

The verdict? A well-done movie in its own right, despite the weak third act. This movie definitely felt like a middle piece, as opposed to its own entity, which is disappointing, but I think it'll be better once the trilogy is out as a whole. Was it accurate? I will honestly say that it isn't, and many purists will probably dislike a lot of it. Personally, I was fine with many of the changes, save Beorn's scenes and the Lake-Town orc battle. 7/10.

[Fives]

Went a saw it again tonight (thats two nights in a row). Better the second time around. Things that initially irked me the first time felt a lot more natural this time. It was the same with AUJ. At first, I felt like the whole movie up until Laketown was rushed, but I think it was just the excitement level making it feel faster.

[Faefrost]

Just saw it. I loved it. Yeah there were a ton of changes from the book. But astonishingly pretty much all of those were to flesh out characters that were at best poorly described in the book itself. The actual story follows the book dead on. I love the original book. I learned to read from it. But what I saw tonight was perfectly reasonable to bring the book to screen. It improved on TUJ in every way possible. It wasn't the mess of conflicting tones of the first. It clicked in fully 100% in that Middle Earth LotR type tone, feel and sense of action and adventure. And it delivered.

If you were on the fence after TUJ. Take a risk and go see this. It is wonderful. It isn't just Tolkien. Above and beyond the root Tolkien source this channels every Dungeons and Dragons game or dream we ever had, and a host of derivative works. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dr'izzt Du'orden show up at some point. It's a fun swords and spells and fantasy adventure. One of the best ever put before an audience.

[Cammo]

The cgi was stunning. Especially

Smaug covered in liquid gold.

Glad they changed Bolg's design, fits the other orcs now. The first one was too cartoony for my taste.

The only thing i rather hated was the Beorn sequence. It was way too short... They could have done more with it. Now I understand why LEGO didn't make a separate set for him.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Cammo