The Hobbit movies discussion

[Faefrost]

He looked very strange in this movie. It wasn't just his eyes. I think he's gained some weight since LotR. But his makeup seems wrong somehow, even besides his eyes.

I'm not sure what I thought of the elves in general. A lot of the fighting stuff was cool, but I think some stuff was too over the top, like Legolas walking on people's heads. I think it might have been better to be a little more realistic.

They had similar problems with Frodo in the first. Some of the character design elements changed and it was very jarring. For example Frodo's feet were huge, and he seemed much taller in TUJ. Gandalf seems noticeably leaner in the Hobbit. And Legolas just felt a little off visually. I liked that they portrayed him as a bit more of an unsympathetic character at that stage of his life. It's the subtle visual details that felt not quite right.

[BlueberryWaffles]

I saw this movie again.

And it was awesome, again.

I love this movie. Though it could be called "the Desolation of Prosthetic Orcs" I noticed this time Bilbo doesn't get the Arkenstone. So I wonder how it's going to play out in the third with..certain events. Also I bought the soundtrack which is so awesome.

[CMP]

I noticed this time Bilbo doesn't get the Arkenstone.

Are you sure?

He never answered Thorin when asked, and we never really saw a final, deciding shot of the Arkenstone when Bilbo fled Smaug. I've seen it three times now and still can't tell. He either got it and is hiding it, or he'll pick it up once the third movie starts (since Smaug is now gone).

[Floundie]

Also I bought the soundtrack which is so awesome.

Me too, aside from some tracks I thought were 'messy' there were a lot of cool themes in there. I like that it introduced what Howard Shore calls the House of Durin motif which is notably present in the beginning of In the Shadow of the Mountain and My Armor is Iron (0:53-1:14). I really loved that cue in the latter track. However I'm disappointed we didn't see a return of the misty mountain theme at all.

[The Legonater]

However I'm disappointed we didn't see a return of the misty mountain theme at all.

I was too, but it makes sense. Erebor isn't 'far over the misty mountains' anymore, in fact it's right close. Besides, Thorin/Erabor's theme does good in its place.

[SandMirror38]

I honestly thought this film would end with Bilbo's hand grasping the arkenstone. And then the camera looks down to whats in his hand, you hear Thorin saying something such as "What is it? The Arkenstone? The Dragon?" And then the camera finally would look up from the Arkenstone to Bilbo's face and then he says:

"Nothing"

BOOM credits.

Much better cliffhanger IMO. That way people who hadn't read the book would be interested in where Smaug was and it would just add more interest I think.

[CMP]

I honestly thought this film would end with Bilbo's hand grasping the arkenstone. And then the camera looks down to whats in his hand, you hear Thorin saying something such as "What is it? The Arkenstone? The Dragon?" And then the camera finally would look up from the Arkenstone to Bilbo's face and then he says:

"Nothing"

BOOM credits.

Much better cliffhanger IMO. That way people who hadn't read the book would be interested in where Smaug was and it would just add more interest I think.

Dragon flying off to go torch an entire town is less of an interesting and dramatic cliffhanger than a bunch of dwarves digging around in a pile of gold?

I'm sure the scene itself will be great, but I wouldn't end the movie on that note.

[SandMirror38]

Dragon flying off to go torch an entire town is less of an interesting and dramatic cliffhanger than a bunch of dwarves digging around in a pile of gold?

I'm sure the scene itself will be great, but I wouldn't end the movie on that note.

Well with the whole build up of Bard 'Not if I kill it first' It didn't really leave anyone guessing. We all now the dragon's gonna die now cause we've practically been TOLD that.

My sister loved the movie but also agreed that it was a weird ending and she knew what would happen next and she's never read the Hobbit. With the weight and importance they gave the Arkenstone I think an ending staring it being taken by Bilbo would be very intriguing.

[Scorpiox]

I think that the climatic dragon scene with the dwarves added a great deal to the film. Think about it, in the book, after all of the reputation of the dragon built up by the dwarves and their hate for him made clear, it's a bit of a disappointment that none of them ever get to see him alive. Bilbo sneaks into the mountain, chats with Smaug who then flies off to torch Laketown. Thorin never gets anywhere near the foe he despises, and that isn't good. Peter Jackson tried to remedy a fault in the narrative, and didn't do too badly at it.

[The Legonater]

Frankly, I much prefer the climax of Smaug flying to Lake Town than Bilbo with the Arkenstone. You say this gives away what's going on, but for the most part anyone who's read the books knows what's going on anyways, Arkenstone or no.

As much as the Dwarves vs. Smaug annoys me as a sequence, it really does need to be there. Any movie needs a big fight scene at the end, and it was honestly either this or Smaug vs. Lake Town, that latter of which would have meant that the main villain of the trilogy was set-up, introduced, and killed all in the second movie. That just doesn't work.

My only issue is how the Lake-Town battle is going to work. It needs to me climactic... but honestly all it is is Bard firing an arrow. Sure there's Smaug attacking everything, and Bard has to break out... but in the end, it's really just a one-shot battle.

[CMP]

My only issue is how the Lake-Town battle is going to work. It needs to me climactic... but honestly all it is is Bard firing an arrow. Sure there's Smaug attacking everything, and Bard has to break out... but in the end, it's really just a one-shot battle.

I imagine Oin, Fili, Kili, and Bofur will have some role in something. Probably Tauriel too.

[BrickBob Studpants]

I think that the climatic dragon scene with the dwarves added a great deal to the film. Think about it, in the book, after all of the reputation of the dragon built up by the dwarves and their hate for him made clear, it's a bit of a disappointment that none of them ever get to see him alive. Bilbo sneaks into the mountain, chats with Smaug who then flies off to torch Laketown. Thorin never gets anywhere near the foe he despises, and that isn't good. Peter Jackson tried to remedy a fault in the narrative, and didn't do too badly at it.

I agree 100% And it gives Smaug a better reason to attack Laketown, in the book Smaug seems to overreact heavily. I mean, he seriously wants to burn down an entire town just because he thinks a resident tried to steal something from him? I know he's a dragon and that's sort of their shtick, but that feels really silly to me I do wonder however how Thorin is going to defend himself now, in the book he denies any responsibility for the attack but in the film he's clearly been involved in ticking Smaug off

[SandMirror38]

I imagine Oin, Fili, Kili, and Bofur will have some role in something. Probably Tauriel too.

What about Legolas??

Sure he left lake-town but won't he come back once he's realised whats happened and that Tauriel is in the city?

[Deathleech]

As much as the Dwarves vs. Smaug annoys me as a sequence, it really does need to be there. Any movie needs a big fight scene at the end, and it was honestly either this or Smaug vs. Lake Town, that latter of which would have meant that the main villain of the trilogy was set-up, introduced, and killed all in the second movie. That just doesn't work.

Well the movie is called the DESOLATION of Smaug. It's kind of odd that is the movie title but Smaug is never even killed in it. In the book there is tons of build up to Smaug and then he dies right after he is revealed so I wouldn't expect anything different in the movie.

I think a great ending would of been to show Smaug dying, all the armies forming outside the mountain in the aftermath and right before they all start fighting we see the huge orc horde coming in the horizon with war drums and a look of dread on everyone's face before the film cuts to the credits. I am guessing that wouldn't of worked though because the third movie wouldn't be near as long with just the Bo5A and the trip back home after everything happens.

[BrickBob Studpants]

Well the movie is called the DESOLATION of Smaug. It's kind of odd that is the movie title but Smaug is never even killed in it. In the book there is tons of build up to Smaug and then he dies right after he is revealed so I wouldn't expect anything different in the movie.

I think a great ending would of been to show Smaug dying, all the armies forming outside the mountain in the aftermath and right before they all start fighting we see the huge orc horde coming in the horizon with war drums and a look of dread on everyone's face before the film cuts to the credits. I am guessing that wouldn't of worked though because the third movie wouldn't be near as long with just the Bo5A and the trip back home after everything happens.

The desolation that the title refers to is the wasteland surrounding Erebor (the ruines of Dale etc), so I don't see how this is supposed to directly imply Smaug's death? The ending you're suggesting sounds neat, but there's another reasoned it wouldn't have worked: Gandalf's still trapped in Dol Guldur The rescuing scene has to take place before the BO5A since Gandalf's also part of it

Edited January 7, 2014 by Lego-Freak

[Clone OPatra]

The ending would have been much better in my mind if Smaug had left before Thorin got to pull his stupid gold-statue trick. Smaug's character logic worked up until the gold-statue thing, but not so much after it. I'll explain: before the statue, Smaug had chased around the dwarves for a while, it wasn't working out so well, so he was pissed off. Then he gets Bilbo alone, and decides he might as well mess with Bilbo by destroying Laketown, seeing as how chasing the dwarves had just pissed him off anyway. That made enough sense. In Smaug's mind, he finally gets some peace from the pesky dwarves, and he can always come trash them later. It would've been a nice ending for him to leave, and then Thorin and the rest rush into the throne room, see Smaug is gone, and look at each other like "well, shit."

Instead, the movie includes them pouring molten gold on Smaug which does absolutely nothing (an element that I liked, the whole it being useless thing), and then he decides to fly off without dealing with them anyway. All the dwarves are right freaking there! Breath fire now! Even if he'd decided to leave, once they come at him again, it would make more sense for Smaug's character to snap back. The only good the gold did was provide one last lovely visual of it flying off, but that's not how movie decisions should be made. Smaug would've snapped back at them after they did that. It didn't serve the film at all.

[Mr Breden]

I'm pretty sure it weakened his armor...

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mr Breden

[Fives]

Clone O'Patra, I see what you mean by the gold statue kinda being dumb, but before Smaug was covered in gold, he'd already decided to go to Laketown. He stopped because he wanted to hear what Thorin had to say. He still was in control the whole time. When the statue was unveiled, he was, for a few seconds, dumbfounded by the shiny gold he loves so dearly. Then he gets all covered in it, and him just getting up and flying off was basically his way of saying to Thorin 'You idiot, I'm a motherf****ing dragon! You can't kill me!'

Rather than just kill Thorin, Smaug left him there to think about how he failed, and how now the destruction of Laketown is on his shoulders. He doesn't just want to kill Thorin, he wants to ruin him; break his mind and his heart.

Also, I think it would be very clever if Bilbo starts off TABA having the Arkenstone. It will start the film with an instant feeling of tension, because we know that Thorin will be going crazy searching for it, and Bilbo will be skulking in the background, keeping his little secret. It would be the best way to drive Thorin to the total point of irrationality that he is at when Thranduil and Bard try to bargain for the treasure.

[Clone OPatra]

Clone O'Patra, I see what you mean by the gold statue kinda being dumb, but before Smaug was covered in gold, he'd already decided to go to Laketown. He stopped because he wanted to hear what Thorin had to say. He still was in control the whole time. When the statue was unveiled, he was, for a few seconds, dumbfounded by the shiny gold he loves so dearly. Then he gets all covered in it, and him just getting up and flying off was basically his way of saying to Thorin 'You idiot, I'm a motherf****ing dragon! You can't kill me!'

I know he'd already decided to go, but watching the film I felt as though he would've "un-decided" at least for a moment once Thorin did the statue thing. To me it would've been more powerful, and I think would have worked better, for Smaug to leave before Thorin and the dwarves arrived in the throne room at all.

[Fives]

I know he'd already decided to go, but watching the film I felt as though he would've "un-decided" at least for a moment once Thorin did the statue thing. To me it would've been more powerful, and I think would have worked better, for Smaug to leave before Thorin and the dwarves arrived in the throne room at all.

To be honest, I kinda agree. I truly think that the golden statue completely takes away from the believability of the Middle-Earth PJ has created. It seems so far fetched and doesn't really feel like something Tolkien would have written. I love that PJ gave the dwarves a confrontation with Smaug, but as the final climatic scene unfolds, it feels less and less like Middle-Earth, and more like a fantasy version of Tomb Raider or something.

So yeah, you're right to say that it would have been better if Thorin hadn't had that final scene before Smaug flies off. It would've been just as dramatically effective, and without some outrageous gold statue.

[CMP]

Also, I think it would be very clever if Bilbo starts off TABA having the Arkenstone. It will start the film with an instant feeling of tension, because we know that Thorin will be going crazy searching for it, and Bilbo will be skulking in the background, keeping his little secret. It would be the best way to drive Thorin to the total point of irrationality that he is at when Thranduil and Bard try to bargain for the treasure.

That's what I suspect is going to happen too. If not, he'll probably pick it up within the first few minutes anyway.

[Mr Man]

My only problem with the statue thing was that the gold never looked 'real' enough, especialy the fact that the river of gold should have burnt Thorin to a crisp.

[Deathleech]

The desolation that the title refers to is the wasteland surrounding Erebor (the ruines of Dale etc), so I don't see how this is supposed to directly imply Smaug's death? The ending you're suggesting sounds neat, but there's another reasoned it wouldn't have worked: Gandalf's still trapped in Dol Guldur The rescuing scene has to take place before the BO5A since Gandalf's also part of it

Are you sure about that? Wouldn't the movie be called "The Desolation BY Smaug then, instead of "The Desolation OF Smaug"? Also if the movie was referring to the area being desolated surrounding Erebor, wouldn't it of actually showed that more in the present? AIt should of also happened in THIS film, not in the first film where we see the flashback of Smaug when he first came to Erebor and destroyed everything?

Instead, the movie includes them pouring molten gold on Smaug which does absolutely nothing (an element that I liked, the whole it being useless thing), and then he decides to fly off without dealing with them anyway. All the dwarves are right freaking there! Breath fire now! Even if he'd decided to leave, once they come at him again, it would make more sense for Smaug's character to snap back. The only good the gold did was provide one last lovely visual of it flying off, but that's not how movie decisions should be made. Smaug would've snapped back at them after they did that. It didn't serve the film at all.

I thought it was pretty clear Smaug flew off because he had hot molten gold on him and needed to do his little flying twirl move in the open to get it off. Obviously he couldn't fly and move around too much inside Erebor because it was cramped for his big big behind. He probably didn't go back in because he was so fed up with chasing the dwarves around and not getting anywhere so he figured he would quickly fly over Lake-town and torch it to take out some frustration.

[Palathadric]

Just saw it yesterday. Great fun! In a lot of areas I wish they would have stayed truer to the book, but some things did make a lot of sense the way they did them in the movie.

[DarthPotato]

Are you sure about that? Wouldn't the movie be called "The Desolation BY Smaug then, instead of "The Desolation OF Smaug"? Also if the movie was referring to the area being desolated surrounding Erebor, wouldn't it of actually showed that more in the present? AIt should of also happened in THIS film, not in the first film where we see the flashback of Smaug when he first came to Erebor and destroyed everything?

The area that Smaug desolated is his desolation, so it's The "Desolation of Smaug". Calling it "Desolation By Smaug" would be like calling "Revenge of the Sith" "Revenge by the Sith". It's called "The Desolation of Smaug" because that's the dwarves' path and that's where they're headed to.