The Hobbit movies discussion

[SandMirror38]

^ Azog and Tauriel?

[General Magma]

^ Azog and Tauriel?

Azog? A heroic character? Are you completely sure?

[The Legonater]

Clearly he means Legolas. I mean, he wasn't in the Hobbit - he's bound to die by the end of this trilogy. Right?

[Floundie]

He probably meant Radagast. I hope he doesn't die, that's just too dark. Something will probably happen with him though since Gandalf has his staff in FOTR. (think so)

[bachamn]

Something will probably happen with him though since Gandalf has his staff in FOTR. (think so)

where are you getting that from?

[SandMirror38]

Extended Edition commentry

[bachamn]

Another PJ departure then; I mean I guess it fits within his canon since Radagast isn't mentioned in his LotR films, but he did play some part in the events of those books as well, though what happens to him in the end is not disclosed.

[Faefrost]

where are you getting that from?

Ian McKellen said somewhere that Radagast's staff in the Hobbit is the same one that Gandalf had in FotR.

Plus

Of the 4 named Maiar that Jackson had the rights to use, Saruman, Sauron, Gandalf and Radagast (the 2 blues Allatar and Pollando are only from the Silmarillion which the family holds rights to.) all but one are known to be either dead, or taking the last boat out of Middle Earth at the end of RotK. And Hobo Dr. who sure as heck wasn't on the boat.

I figure Tauriel is a likely candidate for some sort of Skakespearian tragedy. Plus leaving her to walk around at the end might raise uncomfortable questions. (Not the least of which involve Legolas's later bromances with Aragorn and Gimli.)

[bachamn]

Who do you mean by "Hobo Dr."?

Anyway I've been reading up about the "Radagast dies" speculation, and it does seem plausible since PJ wrote him our of the LotR films by giving his interactions directly to Saruman and thus doesn't really need him to exist, regardless of the fact that it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't appear in LotR to help fight the war if he played such a prominent role in the assault on Dol Guldur.

Ultimately though he could do whatever he wants with the staves; there really is no logical continuity to speak of where they are concerned. Gandalf goes through multiple staves in the LotR films.

1. The one he has at the start of the film that holds his pipe (presumably Radagast's?) is lost when Saruman takes it from him in Orthanc (which doesn't happen in the books),
   
2. The second one that holds the crystal that magically appeared in his possession in Rivendell but is lost in the battle with the Balrog (consistent with the book)
   
3. The third staff was given to him by Galadriel after he returns to become Gandalf the White (consistent with the book), but is broken later by the Witch King during the Battle of Pelennor Fields (also did not happen in the books).
   
4. I haven't watched the film in a while, but I'm pretty sure Gandalf his a replacement staff soon after the Witch King breaks his but this could have simply been an editing/continuity error.
   

[CMP]

1. The third staff was given to him by Galadriel after he returns to become Gandalf the White (consistent with the book), but is broken later by the Witch King during the Battle of Pelennor Fields (also did not happen in the books)
   

I don't think Gandalf even encountered the Witch King, unless it's in the extended edition or something.

[Fives]

Gandalf the White's staff wasn't broken in the books, but he did encounter the Witch-King at the gates of Minas Tirith. In the film, they changed the location to a battlement on the wall while Gandalf and Pippin go to save Faramir. In the film, they decided to break his staff to show how powerful the Witch-King is.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that Sylvester Mcoy said that the staff he has is the same one Gandalf has during FOTR, hinting that Radagast could die and Gandalf get his staff.

[bachamn]

I don't think Gandalf even encountered the Witch King, unless it's in the extended edition or something.

It's been so long since I've seen the non-extended edition that I forget which scenes made it into the theatrical release.

Gandalf the White's staff wasn't broken in the books...In the film, they decided to break his staff to show how powerful the Witch-King is.

Right, but I wasn't pointing out how/why the staves were broken as much as the fact that they were replaced more than once without any explanation in the films. To me this proves that PJ hasn't paid much attention to this and doesn't expect us to, either.

Edited May 29, 2014 by bachamn

[Palathadric]

Oh, man, they already put Radagast in the Hobbit and took him out of the Lord of the Rings, it would be insane if they killed him off, but it does sound worryingly tremendously likely.

[Floundie]

As I said, I don't think he will die. Maybe transformed into a moth by the necromancer? Though that would contradict the one in AUJ.

[Faefrost]

Who do you mean by "Hobo Dr."?

Actually it was supposed to read "Hobo Dr. Who". Sylvester McCoy was best known for playing the seventh Doctor. And these days he's Radagast the Bro...errr...the "slightly greenish grey bird pooped"

[SandMirror38]

^^ Well he is actually a moth for a split second in DOS so maybe he gets cursed and has to stay that way forever????

I think the one in AUJ was Radagast. Makes a bit more sense now dosn't it?

I mean how does a MOTH tell the great eagles to do this and that.

But Radagast on the other hand is different...

Little theory

[BrickBob Studpants]

Yeah, I also think Radagast is (sadly) going to die, the clue concerning his staff is pretty clear Perhaps his death is what incites Saruman to conspiring with Sauron by making him realize that not even the combined forces of the Istari are powerful enough to stop him?

[bachamn]

Actually it was supposed to read "Hobo Dr. Who". Sylvester McCoy was best known for playing the seventh Doctor. And these days he's Radagast the Bro...errr...the "slightly greenish grey bird pooped"

Ahh that explains it; but I thought it was always 'The Doctor', never 'Dr.'?

^^ Well he is actually a moth for a split second in DOS so maybe he gets cursed and has to stay that way forever????

I think the one in AUJ was Radagast. Makes a bit more sense now dosn't it?

I mean how does a MOTH tell the great eagles to do this and that.

But Radagast on the other hand is different...

Little theory

Well considering in LotR that Radagast's only role is to speak to and sway the actions of birds, including the Eagles, it's not as much of a stretch to consider the moth might be PJ's nod to this direction. It would make perfect sense that the moth that summoned the Eagles when they were in the pine trees could have been one of Radagast's servants, and that this theme would continue into PJ's LotR even though it's not explicitly stated.

As I said, I don't think he will die. Maybe transformed into a moth by the necromancer? Though that would contradict the one in AUJ.

I don't see the transmutation via spell thing happening; it's not really the kind of magic described in Tolkien's lore (Beornings are born with the ability, and are believed nearly extinct). Maybe Radagast won't die, but will withdraw somewhere after everything and give his staff to Gandalf (if that is indeed what's supposed to be happening and the actor's aren't just talking off-hand).

But then again, I'm speaking from the perspective that things will generally follow known canon. If the rumors that Thorin is going to survive are true, then it's all broken so I guess anything is possible.

Edited May 30, 2014 by bachamn

[Floundie]

^^ Well he is actually a moth for a split second in DOS so maybe he gets cursed and has to stay that way forever????

What scene is this? I don't recall that at all.

[bachamn]

What scene is this? I don't recall that at all.

Must have missed that post; yeah I don't recall this either.

[Dharkan]

It seems Peter Jackson managed to ruin whole book completely. I thought he can't go any lower than second movie but it seems Thorin is going to live in the end of movie and we are going to have Sauron as a villain.

I'm not gonna watch this stupid made-up fantasy film which has the same name with one of the greatest book I've ever read.

[Scorpiox]

If the rumors that Thorin is going to survive are true, then it's all broken so I guess anything is possible.

I bet my house keys that Peter Jackson would never cross that line. Radagast dying, perhaps, but Thorin's death should be pretty much guaranteed.

[Ardelon]

What scene is this? I don't recall that at all.

Must have missed that post; yeah I don't recall this either.

Maybe SandMirror38 is refering to the scene when Gandalf is in the High Fells and some animal startles him when he checks a tomb, and when he turns around, Radagast is standing there? It never occured to me that that animal was Radagast, but it makes sense. I wondered how, after showing Gandalfs long and dangerous climb to the tombs, Radagast just appears behind him. If Radagast came there the same way as Gandalf, they should have seen each other much earlier. But if he can turn himself into an animal (I actually thought it was a bat), it would explain this point.

It seems Peter Jackson managed to ruin whole book completely. I thought he can't go any lower than second movie but it seems Thorin is going to live in the end of movie and we are going to have Sauron as a villain.

I'm not gonna watch this stupid made-up fantasy film which has the same name with one of the greatest book I've ever read.

He didnt ruin the book; he didnt have any influence over the book. The book is just fine. You could say he ruined the film, however subjective that may be.

And I sometimes wonder how many people saying they wont watch the 3rd film will actually keep their word? (I wondered the same abouth the 2nd film...)

That said, Im not a fan of Radagast dying (the worst rumored change IMO) or Thorin living. Or the name change for that matter, which is at least confirmed. Though I am willing to watch Dwarves on boars, and Im on the fence on having Smaug be present at the battle. I do, howver applaud having the Sauron story as a major subplot instead of sticking to Bilbos narrow POV. I guess more controversial rumors mean more hype for the film - everyone will be holding their breath on how far PJ & co. deviated from the books...

Edited May 31, 2014 by Ardelon

[Infernum]

I'm fine with Radagast dying, PJ is great at powerful death scenes. Bu Thorin living or Smaug being at the BoFA...

[The Legonater]

Radagast dying doesn't directly contradict anything. I'm interested in how they would plan on killing an Istari like that, but I'm far more fine with that than keeping Thorin alive or bringing in Sauron.