Rufus Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Um, why do you think so? Scum protector is an unlikely role (I know something about it! ) and would probably only be balanced by a Serial Killer or a Bomb on the ship? We lynched Rockford on the basis that he remained alive because he was protected by the scum protector; and there was apparently one in the simulation. If a scum is going to claim town protector, it would make sense that it would be the scum protector. Which, as you say, you know something about.
Fugazi Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 We lynched Rockford on the basis that he remained alive because he was protected by the scum protector; and there was apparently one in the simulation. Indeed, how could I forget it. I should check my notes before asking stupid questions.
Waterbrick Down Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 My apologies I mixed up thought the Vengeful PR referred to any action that occured after death. Looking back over my records, I received information that Jones was the investigator during day 4 and after contacting Jones, he told me that he received his action on night 3. The only ones to die on night 3 were Wright and Willis. Wright was apparently a neutral and Willis the town-watcher, so I can see how it would appear that Willis was actually a neutral who inherrited Wright's action, but he has claimed Townie privately to me and Wilder, not that he wouldn't lie to keep his skin. Also for the record, I haven't placed a vote against Ensign Williams, only boldly pointed him out.
Fugazi Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Wright was apparently a neutral and Willis the town-watcher, so I can see how it would appear that Willis was actually a neutral who inherrited Wright's action, but he has claimed Townie privately to me and Wilder, not that he wouldn't lie to keep his skin. A Neutral? Perhaps indeed. Though I'm rather inclined to believe that the whole inheritance thing was made up, especially in the light of the one-shot investigation. We can't even be sure that Wright was truly a Cop, so anyone can say anything. It's actually interesting to note that Jones' claim came after the Town Watcher died, which made impossible any confirmation of his actual targets -- given that we also don't seem to have a Tracker.
Waterbrick Down Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 So where does that leave us? Jones could be the mole, but we risk losing an investigator if we are wrong. Hornby could be the mole, but this is dependent upon the protector not actually protecting Wilder and instead converting, or there actually being no protector and we assume they were killed early on, in this case we still have to assume a conversion at the rist of losing our protector. My money is still on Ensign Williams, it utilizes the least amount of assumptions and he has also yet to claim a PR.
Rufus Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 My money is still on Ensign Williams, it utilizes the least amount of assumptions and he has also yet to claim a PR. Then put your mouth where your money is! Personally, I'm less convinced about Williams. If he's scum, he's playing the clueless townie role well. The only thing I could find against him is his exchange with Walters at the start of day 4, which could be seen as a soft defence of Hornby and Rockford, but I'd guess was driven more by distrust of McAndrews, based on what he said earlier today. I think there's a much stronger candidate: I maintain that Hornby is the scum we should lynch today. The sentence I quoted from today is a dead giveaway. Perhaps he can also speculate on why the scum haven't tried to kill him after he foolishly exposed himself as the vig (and we know they haven't because we've seen them kill someone else every night since then). You won't get better than this for a scumtell. He's trying to discredit Wilder, and unwittingly reveals that he knows that the scum never targeted the vig. Couple this with the York/McAndrews 'sting' from day 4 - which may have worked better than anyone thought: go and read it again. York's neck is on the line, so she makes an neutral roleclaim - not uncommon for a scum to do if they think they might be lynched. No one believes it. But at no point does Hornby consider the possibility that York might be scum. I've heard better roleclaims, especially back in my days with the FBI. I'd suggest you give up this nonsense and start helping us right now, or we'll disprove this faster than you can say "magical poopy mushrooms." megablocking neutrals, nothing but trouble, just like I said. Not once you're gone, you only want to help yourself, and you haven't earned it. I know where my vote is going today. OH! Now it all makes sense! Neutral vigilante who knows who the scum are but doesn't kill any of them and will grant one side or the other the ability to kill. Now you're just making yourself look like an idiot. Start packing, babe. You really are this stupid, aren't you? You want us to believe that you must be night killed to pass the power on to the town, yet you also claim to be the vig. How exactly would we accomplish this task, assuming you can't just commit suicide (which you kind of did anyway). To take it a step further, if you would lie about something like this, which you clearly are, why would anyone believe that you were actually able to reveal any role? Even the scum can see through this nonsense. I repeat... neutrals. Sure. You're as much of a megablocking retard as she is. I'm not calling her out as a neutral, I'm calling her out as a moron. Until your post, I had no doubt she was neutral, it's why I keep saying we can't trust them. I only said that her roleclaim was obviously megablocks. No one has said she isn't neutral, except you. Did I mention that you're a megablocking retard? Good. Oh dear, I've been busted for not believing an impossible roleclaim. Whatever shall I do now?
Capt.JohnPaul Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 I'm sticking with Hornby. He was on my suspicion list from the start. And the sting got those good reactions.
Shadows Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Not even worth it. I laid out a case based on people who are actually confirmed. McAndrews made it clear that either Holloway or Jones had to be scum, and between the two, it made more sense to target the one who has no useful role to the town. I had to reveal my own role to make that case, something I had avoided previously and the town vig has confirmed this. If that isn't good enough and you wish to ignore it, do carry on with this nonsense, it would give the scum their only guaranteed shot at killing me, a lynch. They know this and are likely to attempt a bandwagon to get me killed. In the end, your fate (and mine) is in your own hands, but remember that killing me leaves our vig unprotected tonight, my role will not be passed on, I can assure you. I find it hilarious that at least part of the case against me is York. I revealed her idiotic 'sting' by saying that we clearly couldn't trust a neutral who would try to sell us out to the scum. Was I wrong? I never called her scum because I sincerely believed she was a neutral trying to join up with the scum, her reveal didn't make sense if she was scum, it would have served no purpose. I still don't trust her, I never have, but McAndrews (her sting partner) said he thought she was town. Since I knew he was, I took his word on it and moved on. Perhaps that was a mistake. I am not going point by point through it to prove something you should already be able to see. If you do make a stupid mistake and kill me, when I am revealed as town, kill Holloway, ok? That's all I ask, don't let me die without at least something good coming from it. You might also want to look at anyone who jumps on the bandwagon, since that's the best scum tell of all, they won't be able to resist taking me down the only way they can.
Waterbrick Down Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Not even worth it. I laid out a case based on people who are actually confirmed. Relagating an attack against you as worth your time. I've really had enough of you pushing off every accusation made against you with your big ego. I've wondered for a long time, who had the vig's ear, it had to be a really smooth talker to slide and wiggle his way into the town block. I don't want to waste a lynch on a possible PR, but I'm prepared to make an exception for you and your unhelpful and BS attitude. McAndrews made it clear that either Holloway or Jones had to be scum, and between the two, it made more sense to target the one who has no useful role to the town. McAndrew was of the opinion that if I turned up town then, Jones was supposed to be scum and even then I don't understand the logic to that statement, much less the one you just stated.I had to reveal my own role to make that case, something I had avoided previously and the town vig has confirmed this. If that isn't good enough and you wish to ignore it, do carry on with this nonsense, it would give the scum their only guaranteed shot at killing me, a lynch. They know this and are likely to attempt a bandwagon to get me killed. On contrair, the scum have had plenty of opportunity to kill you if they wanted to and instead have taken care of targets I thought would have long out-lived yourself due to your experience on this ship. Idle threats made to make us seem like the rest of us are idiots... If we're going to start piling on evidence against Hornby, I might as well relate that Gordon claimed to role-cop Hornby on night 3 but was blocked. The vig can confirm McAndrew's night action record, not once did he target Gordon. Therefor this means that Gordon was lying about being blocked (unless for some outlandish reason the scum-blocker blocked their own role-cop). Two possibilities exist, Gordon lied about role-copping Hornby or Gordon actually did role-cop him. If the former then why would he do so, answer Gordon already knew Hornby's role because they were on the same team. If the latter then why would he lie about being blocked. If Hornby is a scum then we know that Gordon wouldn't want to out him. If Hornby is the claimed town-protector then the scum already know about him. If by the end of day 3 they knew the vigilante, town role-blocker, town protector, and investigator, then why in the world is he still alive? Right now I think the right thing is to vote: Lieutenant Hornby (Shadows). If you want to lynch me tomorrow fine, I'm vanilla so it isn't going to hurt the town, heck if you want to even have me vig killed go ahead, but your attitude and attempt to squash any argument brought against you by simply calling it stupid, or shrugging it off by virtue of your ego had convinced me that your actions fit more in line with a scum-protector than a town one, even if you are one (a protector) to begin with.
Shadows Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Relagating an attack against you as worth your time. It isn't worth my time because it's illogical, just like the nonsense with York was. It's obvious in it's transparency. The scum can't kill me at night, so they go for the lynch. Not exactly hard to spot. I've really had enough of you pushing off every accusation made against you with your big ego. When a legitimate or even well-thought accusation is made, I'll give it the effort it deserves. Hasn't happened yet. I've wondered for a long time, who had the vig's ear, it had to be a really smooth talker to slide and wiggle his way into the town block. I don't want to waste a lynch on a possible PR, but I'm prepared to make an exception for you and your unhelpful and BS attitude. I've had anything but the vig's ear or things would be going very differently right now, for one thing, he never would have revealed himself. No, the vig has been deeply involved with the town block, you know, that group that was led by Scumba for a while, the one that has at least one scum in it even now, the group I've intentionally not been involved with because I don't trust them. As for being helpful, you tried to get the vig to kill me days ago when he knew better and you and one other are on his list of people to vote off today. Ask him for yourself. McAndrew was of the opinion that if I turned up town then, Jones was supposed to be scum and even then I don't understand the logic to that statement, much less the one you just stated. McAndrew never said anything like that to me, he was unsure of both of you, his list of suspects was down to you or Jones. Not me. Not the vig. You or Jones. I still maintain that Jones may serve a useful role to this town, leaving you. On contrair, the scum have had plenty of opportunity to kill you if they wanted to and instead have taken care of targets I thought would have long out-lived yourself due to your experience on this ship. You probably mean 'au contraire' in your attempt to sound eloquent in your stupidity. Gilding the lily and all that. Oh, wait, you scum hate it when I'm rude to you. Scumba hated it, Rockford hated it, now you. I like my record of upsetting the scum so far, it makes me smile. As for opportunity to kill me, they know they'll only get me by lynch, it's why you're so keen to do it. You know this for a fact or you wouldn't be so determined to go against the vig and McAndrews and others to try to get me killed that way, especially since the scum are well aware that the town has a protector and I certainly don't see anyone else trying to step forward to claim it. The vig can confirm McAndrew's night action record, not once did he target Gordon. Therefor this means that Gordon was lying about being blocked (unless for some outlandish reason the scum-blocker blocked their own role-cop). Two possibilities exist, Gordon lied about role-copping Hornby or Gordon actually did role-cop him. If the former then why would he do so, answer Gordon already knew Hornby's role because they were on the same team. If the latter then why would he lie about being blocked. If Hornby is a scum then we know that Gordon wouldn't want to out him. I'm having a hard time even following your rambling here, but basing anything on the word of Scumba (Gordon) is idiotic. Let's put it this way, if I was scum with Gordon, he would simply create fake results (he's vanilla!), not try to claim a block that could be discovered as a lie. If you're going to play scum, you could at least try to think like them when presenting accusations. If Hornby is the claimed town-protector then the scum already know about him. If by the end of day 3 they knew the vigilante, town role-blocker, town protector, and investigator, then why in the world is he still alive? Sure they know, it isn't like the town has managed to keep any secrets in this game. The scum know that a night kill is likely to fail, probably because McAndrews had an unfortunate history of not keeping his mouth shut. By your logic, why is the vigilante alive? Why is the investigator alive? They've been known for longer than I have. Think about that for a minute. Right now I think the right thing is to vote: Lieutenant Hornby (Shadows). If you want to lynch me tomorrow fine, I'm vanilla so it isn't going to hurt the town, heck if you want to even have me vig killed go ahead That's all I'm asking. If the town is stupid enough to kill me, I expect them to be smart enough to kill you next. but your attitude and attempt to squash any argument brought against you by simply calling it stupid, or shrugging it off by virtue of your ego had convinced me that your actions fit more in line with a scum-protector than a town one, even if you are one (a protector) to begin with. They are stupid arguments, just as stupid as York and her 'sting' that was a copy of Pewter, but worse. I'm sorry if the truth bothers you, but that's the way it is, stupid things should be called stupid, and I for one intend to do that. Everyone loves a tl;dr, so here we go: I was brought to McAndrews by our beloved treestump, who knew my alignment without question. I had already been talking to Walters, who I felt could be trusted enough to know my role very early on. I told McAndrews my role and it was suggested that I contact the vig. I have limited my contacts with those who could truly be trusted. We've worked together since then, outside the town block, knowing that someone in it is scum. You've tried to get me killed by the vig and now by lynch. McAndrews suspected you or Jones. You're the logical choice for a lynch today. End of story. My vote stands, my patience, however, has come to an end. The town needs to get it's head out of it's collective megablocks and figure this out before all is lost.
Fugazi Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Everyone loves a tl;dr, so here we go: I was brought to McAndrews by our beloved treestump, who knew my alignment without question. This begs clarification. Did the treestump investigate you too? Or was Falcon an investigator before he was killed?
Shadows Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 This begs clarification. Did the treestump investigate you too? Or was Falcon an investigator before he was killed? I can't go into details about the magic treestump, not because I don't want to but because even I don't understand how it worked, to the point that I was actually suspicious of him at first. I don't know what Falcon was prior to death, but clearly it was something amazing to come back the way he did.
Fugazi Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 I can't go into details about the magic treestump, not because I don't want to but because even I don't understand how it worked, to the point that I was actually suspicious of him at first. I don't know what Falcon was prior to death, but clearly it was something amazing to come back the way he did. But he did tell you that he knew your alignment without question? Didn't he explain how? I wouldn't have trusted such a claim either. Anyway given that Falcon was town, this suggests that he knew you were town too, or he would have outed you instead of Gordon. If we are to take your word for it. Was Falcon the Town investigator before his death? That's not what he claimed, but it would explain why he was granted a one-shot investigation (or more?) as a stump. This further fuels my suspicion of Lieutenant Jones, supposed Town investigator inheriting his role from a neutral. I would like to hear more from Jones, and perhaps a little incentive is required. Vote: Lt Zachary Jones (Masked Builder)
Bob Posted August 2, 2012 Author Posted August 2, 2012 Vote Tally: Ensign Holloway / Waterbrick Down: 2 (Shadows, Dragonator) Ensign Williams / swils: 1 (Waterbrick Down) Lieutenant Hornby / Shadows : 3 (Rufus, Capt.JohnPaul, Waterbrick Down) Lieutenant Jones / Masked Builder: 1 (Fugazi) 24 hours left.
Masked Builder Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 As for the investigator, I'm suspicious of investigator claims where the action has seemingly appeared mid-way through the game. I think this is worth discussing. If the role appeared in order to balance the game after Wright's death, it brings back into question the whole 'neutral role cop' thing, and whether the game would become balanced by introducing an apparently town-aligned investigator. I'd like to hear more from Jones about his role. I got my role night three, the message implied that the admiral was unhappy with the previous one or replaced him. Was Falcon the Town investigator before his death? That's not what he claimed, but it would explain why he was granted a one-shot investigation (or more?) as a stump. This further fuels my suspicion of Lieutenant Jones, supposed Town investigator inheriting his role from a neutral. I would like to hear more from Jones, and perhaps a little incentive is required. Vote: Lt Zachary Jones (Masked Builder) I have no idea whom had the investigator role before I got it. All I know is that I got it day three.
Fugazi Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 I have no idea whom had the investigator role before I got it. All I know is that I got it day three. Day 3 or Night 3?
Masked Builder Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Day 3 or Night 3? Night three, I typing said the wrong thing.
Shadows Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 But he did tell you that he knew your alignment without question? Didn't he explain how? I wouldn't have trusted such a claim either. He worked in mysterious ways. The post game-of-life will be fascinating, I bet. Was Falcon the Town investigator before his death? That much I know. No. This further fuels my suspicion of Lieutenant Jones, supposed Town investigator inheriting his role from a neutral. I would like to hear more from Jones, and perhaps a little incentive is required.Vote: Lt Zachary Jones (Masked Builder) I agree that hearing more is good, but in the end I'd rather risk voting out someone who claims to be vanilla over a possible investigator, so my vote for Holloway stands.
fhomess Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Ok, I went back through some of the town core conversations and here's what I found. Wright (CMP) had claimed investigator and the results that we had been given from him were a town investigation result on Lieutenant Jones on night 1. Wright publicly claimed to have been blocked on night 2, when he tried to investigate Willis (KOTZ) and that seems to be what led to his claim being shared with McAndrews. Plus, it was me who was blocked last night, so unless the SK was blocked night one and the scum hit a protected target night two, I don't think there is a serial killer. (Or maybe the scum blocker was on me, but I still don't think there is one.) Wright was killed on night 3, and his claim as a neutral cop was reported to me by McAndrews (Tammo) before Gordon (Scuba) made any comment on it in the group discussion. Jones investigator claim was reported to the same group by McAndrews early on Day 4 and the first thing that Gordon tried to do was to tell us that Jones was Wright's neutral partner trying to merge with the rest of the scum team. If that was intended as a bus of a teammate, then it was way too early, IMO. Based on that, I don't think Jones is scum even though his claim as a newly minted investigator on night 3 seems a bit out there. Gordon wasn't on any of the town core's radar at that point in time, so I don't see why he would've tried to distance himself from Jones at that point in time if he was on the same scum team. In the same conversation, Gordon commented on the fact that he was blocked when trying to role cop Hornby by trying to point out that York was scum. So I'm crossing York off my scum list for that reason. If you review Day 4, you'll see that York was in an argument with both Gordon and Rockford. York is probably not scum. This all came before Gordon was stumped. If we continue along with the idea that Gordon claimed to have been blocked the night he role copped Hornby, then we have several options: 1. Gordon was blocked by the town blocker 2. Gordon was blocked by the scum blocker 3. Gordon was lying Option 1: McAndrews was the town blocker and has consistently said he blocked Rockford that night, so option 1 is invalidated. Option 2: Gordon proved to be scum, so would not have been blocked by his teammate. Option 3: This is the only option that makes any sense. What are the possibilities if Gordon lied: 1. Gordon didn't want to out his teammate 2. Gordon didn't want us to know the town protector's identity 3. Gordon role copped someone else entirely and didn't want to be caught lying if he got Hornby's role wrong I don't know what Gordon actually did (does anyone here know?), but Options 2 and 3 imply that Hornby is town. Option 1: Only makes sense if interpreted along with option 3. We can speculate on why Gordon didn't just make something up in this case. Option 2: Unlikely that Hornby would've survived night 4. I just don't get why scum would've let him live through that night or last night. He's a better target than myself, and Jones was left unprotected as Hornby claims to have protected me. Option 3: Possible Looking at all the scenarios for Night 4, it's hard for me to see how the scum kill doesn't go through except in one of two situations: 1. Hornby is the town protector 2. The scum converted someone (or tried to and failed) Note that those aren't mutually exclusive.
Fugazi Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Jones investigator claim was reported to the same group by McAndrews early on Day 4 and the first thing that Gordon tried to do was to tell us that Jones was Wright's neutral partner trying to merge with the rest of the scum team. Very enlightening. So this does clear Jones, although it does not paint him exactly as town either. This is quite revealing: Wright (CMP) had claimed investigator and the results that we had been given from him were a town investigation result on Lieutenant Jones on night 1. Cleared by a neutral on the first night, then inheriting the role of said neutral? It does appear to me that Jones is also a neutral, part of Wright's team. Though if he really is an investigator, scum wouldn't need such a role. He might be the 'right' kind of neutral. Unvote: Lt Zachary Jones (Masked Builder) If we continue along with the idea that Gordon claimed to have been blocked the night he role copped Hornby, then we have several options: 1. Gordon was blocked by the town blocker 2. Gordon was blocked by the scum blocker 3. Gordon was lying Option 1: McAndrews was the town blocker and has consistently said he blocked Rockford that night, so option 1 is invalidated. Option 2: Gordon proved to be scum, so would not have been blocked by his teammate. Option 3: This is the only option that makes any sense. Wait, you're saying that McAndrews blocked Rockford on Night 3 (when Gordon claimed that he was blocked) but we were also told that Rockford was blocked on Night 4 when there was no night kill. Yet... Rufus, Inconspicuous, Fugazi, DarkDragon were all blocked at one point or another by Tammo and thus were not the scum killer and Scuba claimed role-cop so that puts him out. McAndrews was killed on Night 5, so when was Wheeler blocked then? Moving on... What are the possibilities if Gordon lied: 1. Gordon didn't want to out his teammate 2. Gordon didn't want us to know the town protector's identity 3. Gordon role copped someone else entirely and didn't want to be caught lying if he got Hornby's role wrong I don't know what Gordon actually did (does anyone here know?), but Options 2 and 3 imply that Hornby is town. Option 1: Only makes sense if interpreted along with option 3. We can speculate on why Gordon didn't just make something up in this case. Option 2: Unlikely that Hornby would've survived night 4. I just don't get why scum would've let him live through that night or last night. He's a better target than myself, and Jones was left unprotected as Hornby claims to have protected me. Option 3: Possible Option 3 is unlikely if Hornby is town. Because if he's town Gordon would have been interested in finding out about him, and wouldn't have gone role-copping someone else with the consequences that 1) he would have had to make up a night result on Hornby, which would have probably been wrong, and 2) he could have been seen targeting the wrong person, an unnecessary risk. So Option 1 suggests that Hornby is scum, Option 2 is unlikely as no one bothered Hornby on Nights 4 and 5, and Option 3 only makes sense if Hornby is scum. Looking at all the scenarios for Night 4, it's hard for me to see how the scum kill doesn't go through except in one of two situations: 1. Hornby is the town protector 2. The scum converted someone (or tried to and failed) Given the above, my belief is that Option 2 is what actually happened. Vote: Lt Thomas Hornby (Shadows)
Masked Builder Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 I Vote: Lt Thomas Hornby (Shadows). I've been suspicious of him for the past few days, I just don't like the way he's behaving.
swils Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Shhh! Don't tell the Admiral I'm here! I snuck away from the engineering deck but I only have a moment... Vote: Lieutenant Thomas Hornby (Shadows) I've got to get back to the deck before I'm found out, but mark my words, I'll be back in/within 7 hours to give my reasoning!
fhomess Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Cleared by a neutral on the first night, then inheriting the role of said neutral? It does appear to me that Jones is also a neutral, part of Wright's team. Though if he really is an investigator, scum wouldn't need such a role. He might be the 'right' kind of neutral. Why are you so convinced that Wright was neutral. He was reported as "Unknown". Could this not have been a jailkeeper and Wright was actually town?
Fugazi Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Why are you so convinced that Wright was neutral. He was reported as "Unknown". Could this not have been a jailkeeper and Wright was actually town? Because as far as I was led to believe Wright claimed neutral himself. Is that not true? Why would a townie claim neutral to anyone?
Capt.JohnPaul Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Why would a townie claim neutral to anyone? .... To "ally" themselves to scum as a sting.
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