HMS Agamemnon...3rd rate in progress

[Aaron Morse]

yup I have about 400 of those lego strings that are 11 studs long just for the rigging, that I don't need for the Challenger, but i'm going to need a whole wack of 21,31,41 stud long strings for all the stays.

Wow, this ship(from it's progress so far) looks really good. I cannot wait till it's completement. Another thing(with the ship that's next to the hull of the Agamemnon) has really good rigging(and has that actual ship look to it), will you be using the rigging technique on the Agamemnon?

[Capn Frank]

HMS Challenger has a crew of 80 sailors and 20 marines. HMS Agamemnon wil have 150 sailors and 30 marines, although right now I'm missing 40 sailors and 10 marines to complete the crew. To give you an idea, I've got enough lego that my church can have a lego pirate party for the 30 kids in our churches junior youth group and each munchkin can build thier own pirate boat or island.

That's a lot of MF's! Though for historical accuracy sake, I would hope you'd have more MF's for the Agamemnon, but it really doesn't matter i guess.

yup I have about 400 of those lego strings that are 11 studs long just for the rigging, that I don't need for the Challenger, but i'm going to need a whole wack of 21,31,41 stud long strings for all the stays.

dude that's a lot of string! 8-o you could make a lego basket out of those strings, or make a lego knitted sweater. I just use Wal-mart String. I'm cheap :-$ .

BTW: Where'd you get the name Agamemnon and what does it mean (if you know)? I dunno if it's Canadian or not :-D .

[Aaron Morse]

The person Agamemnon was the commander of the greek army during the trojan wars.

The ship HMS Agamemnon was Horatio Nelson's first ship of the line command, a 64 gunner. Although it was considered to be under gunned for a ship of the line ( the most common being 74 guns) Nelson was very fond of this ship.

...I'll let the slur against us Canadians slide by...but be careful and read your history concerning Canadians and the house that is now white that yor prez lives in. :)

BTW all...Might be awhile before I can post new pics, my wife and I just bought a house and have to move in before the end of the month. I'll see if I can post some updates this weekend before all is packed up. :(

That's a lot of MF's! Though for historical accuracy sake, I would hope you'd have more MF's for the Agamemnon, but it really doesn't matter i guess.

dude that's a lot of string! 8-o you could make a lego basket out of those strings, or make a lego knitted sweater. I just use Wal-mart String. I'm cheap :-$ .

BTW: Where'd you get the name Agamemnon and what does it mean (if you know)? I dunno if it's Canuck or not :-D .

[Capn Frank]

The person Agamemnon was the commander of the greek army during the trojan wars.

The ship HMS Agamemnon was Horatio Nelson's first ship of the line command, a 64 gunner. Although it was considered to be under gunned for a ship of the line ( the most common being 74 guns) Nelson was very fond of this ship.

...I'll let the slur against us Canadians slide by...but be careful and read your history concerning Canadians and the house that is now white that yor prez lives in. :)

BTW all...Might be awhile before I can post new pics, my wife and I just bought a house and have to move in before the end of the month. I'll see if I can post some updates this weekend before all is packed up. :(

I didn't mean to offend you at all and I'm sorry if i did.

Every canadian i've personally met has been a really cool person in my book. *y*

Look forward to your progress pics. That's pretty neat that you're modeling a real ship. Which books or websites did you read about Horatio Nelson?

[Aaron Morse]

I've watched some documentaries and many books, but the first time I heard of the Agamemnon in referrence to Nelson was in a book by Lambdin in his Lewrie series, at that time though the poor Agamemnon was in desparate need of an overhaul and was said to have chain wrapped around the bottom to keep the water logged timbers from falling apart and thus sinking the ship.

BTW anyone who makes nifty lookin ships (such as yourself) here in the forum is automatically given reprive from any conequences that may have occurred after insulting the inhabitants of the 2nd largest country in the world. :)

I didn't mean to offend you at all and I'm sorry if i did.

Every canadian i've personally met has been a really cool person in my book. *y*

Look forward to your progress pics. That's pretty neat that you're modeling a real ship. Which books or websites did you read about Horatio Nelson?

[ZCerberus]

BTW anyone who makes nifty lookin ships (such as yourself) here in the forum is automatically given reprive from any conequences that may have occurred after insulting the inhabitants of the 2nd largest country in the world. :)

Ahh!! I get so sick of the intentional national pride espousing thing from Canada... I mean the war of 1812 PAH-LEASE! I am not sure I have met a Canadian who HASN'T mentioned burning down the White House. Or the amount of natural gas or other such things that have to be piped through Canada from Alaska, or how Canada is so much more civil than the US, especially in their national health care system blah blah blah...

Additionally, Canada is the second largest country by LAND MASS (if you include coastal waters as part of the land mass), but in terms of things that ACTUALLY matter, like POPULATION or HABITABLE/INHABITED LAND MASS, Canada is WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY lower!

I know Canada NEEDS something to be different and to be cool and unAmerican, but I hate worthless stats that Canadians seemingly HAVE to mention so they can be 'cooler' than the 'stupid' Americans who are all violent, ignorant of other countries and cultures and not educated on any Canadian issues. Even if Canada did give us Shania Twain, Steve Nash and Mike Meyers, most Americans just don't care, unlike Canada which takes extreme national pride in such exports... well except for Shania Twain... who seemingly is unliked because she acts 'too American'.

Okay rant over. Go Justin Morneau, yeah for burning down the White House, moving on...

Anyhow, let's talk about the ship, yes? Ships-of the-Line were ORIGINALLY 74 gunners... but grew larger as time went on. You needed lots of guns because as 'ship-of-the-line' implies, the ships were originally designed to sail in a line and bombard enemies, hence needing many guns. I think they were not nearly as maneuverable as smaller ships, so Captains who liked chasing and boarding probably preferred smaller ships.

The progress has been good, and outside of the rigging questions Phred has, I was wonder if for this ship you are considering actually making yardarms and sails for this one. I don't recall any on your last ship!

[Aaron Morse]

dude I think ya mistook the friendly banter for actual slamming...take a deep breath....

Anywho..I plan to put the yardarms on the Challenger as soon as my family and I move into our new house (with my very own lego room!) sometime after the 26th of January. As for the sails, there's a great Canadian tutorial here on EB by Evil Willy thats gonna help alot!

Ahh!! I get so sick of the intentional national pride espousing thing from Canada... I mean the war of 1812 PAH-LEASE! I am not sure I have met a Canadian who HASN'T mentioned burning down the White House. Or the amount of natural gas or other such things that have to be piped through Canada from Alaska, or how Canada is so much more civil than the US, especially in their national health care system blah blah blah...

Additionally, Canada is the second largest country by LAND MASS (if you include coastal waters as part of the land mass), but in terms of things that ACTUALLY matter, like POPULATION or HABITABLE/INHABITED LAND MASS, Canada is WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY lower!

I know Canada NEEDS something to be different and to be cool and unAmerican, but I hate worthless stats that Canadians seemingly HAVE to mention so they can be 'cooler' than the 'stupid' Americans who are all violent, ignorant of other countries and cultures and not educated on any Canadian issues. Even if Canada did give us Shania Twain, Steve Nash and Mike Meyers, most Americans just don't care, unlike Canada which takes extreme national pride in such exports... well except for Shania Twain... who seemingly is unliked because she acts 'too American'.

Okay rant over. Go Justin Morneau, yeah for burning down the White House, moving on...

Anyhow, let's talk about the ship, yes? Ships-of the-Line were ORIGINALLY 74 gunners... but grew larger as time went on. You needed lots of guns because as 'ship-of-the-line' implies, the ships were originally designed to sail in a line and bombard enemies, hence needing many guns. I think they were not nearly as maneuverable as smaller ships, so Captains who liked chasing and boarding probably preferred smaller ships.

The progress has been good, and outside of the rigging questions Phred has, I was wonder if for this ship you are considering actually making yardarms and sails for this one. I don't recall any on your last ship!

[ZCerberus]

dude I think ya mistook the friendly banter for actual slamming...take a deep breath....

Anywho..I plan to put the yardarms on the Challenger as soon as my family and I move into our new house (with my very own lego room!) sometime after the 26th of January. As for the sails, there's a great Canadian tutorial here on EB by Evil Willy thats gonna help alot!

No, I don't think so, I know plenty'o Canadians, it is just so persistent it gets annoying... I mean, do they make you memorize that crap? I am not sure I have ever met a Canadian who hasn't said, 'Oh you are American... we burned down your White House!"

Anywho... Yes, Canadian Willy... err... Evil Willy has made a tutorial, but I have recently made a few discoveries that should be of note.

Take a look here.

Make sure not to just look at the first picture as it was still in need of some work!

I did these out of dyed 'outdoor canvas'. It is stiff enough to not require and type of stiffening with glue. I used 'RIT' (the brand) dye and I only had to place the canvas in the dye for about 6 or 7 seconds and it is already a little darker than the LEGO version.

I wrote some stuff about making sails with logos on them as well but for a more realistic ship, that isn't terribly necessary. You can view that here.

[Aaron Morse]

...by "memorize that crap" do you mean North American history. Y'kno if you'd like to get back at those uppity Canadian who tease you so badly you could always mention the sacking of York in the War of 1812 two years earlier. look it up, you'll get some good zingers out of it for return fire.

Y'know one thing I've always noticed on MOCs with sails is that there's always an extra yardarm attached to the bottom of the sail, aint so in real life. I've got a crap load of lego string and plan on making it as "real" as possible. I've got some sketches of what i've got planned but we'll see how it turns out.

No, I don't think so, I know plenty'o Canadians, it is just so persistent it gets annoying... I mean, do they make you memorize that crap? I am not sure I have ever met a Canadian who hasn't said, 'Oh you are American... we burned down your White House!"

Anywho... Yes, Canadian Willy... err... Evil Willy has made a tutorial, but I have recently made a few discoveries that should be of note.

Take a look here.

Make sure not to just look at the first picture as it was still in need of some work!

I did these out of dyed 'outdoor canvas'. It is stiff enough to not require and type of stiffening with glue. I used 'RIT' (the brand) dye and I only had to place the canvas in the dye for about 6 or 7 seconds and it is already a little darker than the LEGO version.

I wrote some stuff about making sails with logos on them as well but for a more realistic ship, that isn't terribly necessary. You can view that here.

[ZCerberus]

...by "memorize that crap" do you mean North American history. Y'kno if you'd like to get back at those uppity Canadian who tease you so badly you could always mention the sacking of York in the War of 1812 two years earlier. look it up, you'll get some good zingers out of it for return fire.

Y'know one thing I've always noticed on MOCs with sails is that there's always an extra yardarm attached to the bottom of the sail, aint so in real life. I've got a crap load of lego string and plan on making it as "real" as possible. I've got some sketches of what i've got planned but we'll see how it turns out.

No, by 'that crap' I mean Canadian we have national pride 4 things to mention everytime you meet an American crap.

No need to look it up, I am not teased by any Canadians I can think of, I just don't like people being brainwashed... I personally am well versed in North American, including some Canadian, history. The war of 1812 though is so crap-tacular. fighting ensues, white house is burned down, there is a battle in New Orleans, everyone gives back what they took... boring... nothing worth remembering in the grand scheme of things unless you are Canadian so you can say 'we (and the British) burned a bunch of stuff in New England and Washington, including the White House!' And I think it is misleading to say you hope Phred doesn't offend the people of the 'second largest country in the world'... it makes it sound like you are talking population, not land mass, including all the coastal waters. I would normally have no idea were the US ranks in such boring categories, but I am sure in many categories it is way higher than Canada, but we don't have to memorize that in one category, land mass including coastal waters Canada is ahead of the US!! Sadly, you only mention this stat because there is no world stat were Canada is first, or I am sure you would be forced to memorize that worthless stat and repeat it when an American says Canadian. In fact, I bet excluding coastal waters, the US is probably slightly larger than Canada (if there is such a thing as a pure land calculation). Maybe if you weren't brainwashed, then you would have to say 'you wouldn't want to offend any of the people in the 5th largest nation in the world, by land mass' or 'you wouldn't want to offend the 36th largest country in the world by population'... 36th would even be including the Fundies... (who knows without them).

I think what bothers me is that there is this intentional, let's not be like Americans crap that the Canadian government uses to brainwash its citizens to from some Canadian identity, and then it gets repeated on the forums here and everywhere else, and it is usual such mundane stuff, like burning the white house in the war of 1812. I mean do you know how funny most Americans would consider your program to add 'Canadian sections' to US magazines, or requiring the radio stations to play 75% content some how affiliated with Canada just to foster some nationalism? Or that every time a Canadian gets honored in some sport with an MVP all they say is 'Yeah, now I am a great Canadian too, I have memorized all the other Canadians to win this or a similar honor because Canada is so cool'... it's like they are afraid if they don't mention Canada 4 times they are going to get kicked out of the country or something.

All Phred said before you hit him up with 'we burned down the white house' was that he was wondering if the name Agamemnon was Canadian. I mean it is like you are brainwashed that as soon as an American says Canadian, burning down the white house is the next thing out of your mouth, or, a worthless memorized stats about knowing how large Canada's land mass including coastal waters.

What if everyone in the US had the some national pride espousing requirement implanted in them? Then EVERY time you said you didn't know something about America, they would HAVE to respond by saying "Oh, Canadian eh? Your country sucks so bad Quebec tried to leave, but the English speakers wouldn't let them, your country's history is so boring you had to invent a holiday for when you became independent because you had no good defining moment or definite date that you made one up close to the fourth of July just so you could celebrate that instead of America's Independence Day! You are just mad because you HAVE to learn American history just to get to your own, and then on top of that all the good TV shows and magazines and music is from the US so you have to resort to government created programs just so they can be 'acceptably Canadian enough'. You wouldn't want to offend the people in the third largest nation in the world would you? (or maybe insert 1st because we are talking about military might or something... I mean I supposed if we were brain washed to the same degree we would have to pick the highest ranking we could find, so let's go with #1 baby!!)"

It is so silly and reflexive. You could have said, no Phred, Agamemnon is Greek... but instead you said 'No Phred, learn something about Canada, we burned down the White House.' I mean honestly, so silly... silly, silly, silly.

Wow- that probably sounds far more hostile than it is. Maybe you are aware of the national identity/pride building thing, and that you are intentionally or not continuing it here. Either way it gets annoying to hear all the time and I was just sick of reading it.

Anyhow, to the ship again... well technically speaking all parts of each sail would be attach to the yard arm by rope. there is no need to have one on the bottom since you tie them off on the deck rails. Does this mean you intended to not use the traditional 'tow ball' approach and make a sleek yardarm that the sails will be tied to? Additionally Lego on the last ships did try make somewhat functional rigging (in that moving the ropes raised and lower the sails). Are you going to try to make the rigging functional at all, or just 'authentic looking'?

[Aaron Morse]

I really don't think it has anything to do with brainwashing, I wash my ears, my hair but hardly ever my brain. I mentionned this because its just the most well known Canadian/American conflict (and is kinda relevent to this forum since the war of 1812 is kinda piratety era). If I had mentionned the Aroostook War or the Softwood Lumber Disputes everyone would go...huh? whats that? Feel free to look em up but its pretty durn boring and there were no real resounding victories or even battles, I love history and no one has to force me to read it, and if I was an American I wouldn't be calling the War of 1812 "Crap- tacular" I'd be proud! In the span of three years of fighting the American forces went from being a bunch of state militia to an actual force to be reckoned with. And if truth be told my descendants (Asa Morse b 1794) actually hailed from Vermont! Dont let CSIS know! They might kick me out of Canada for being an American spy! But honestly I'm proud to be Canadian I'm proud of my Country's accomplishments, I've had relatives that have served in almost every single conflict in North America ( mostly great uncles since the majority of those serving died) some served in American armies too during the American Civil War, and I'm proud of them too. I'm sorry if you feel threatened, annoyed or fearful of our brainwashing education system, but we ain't going anywhere and I ain't planning on changing anytime soon. Wow this is the most I've typed on a day off work in a long time! As I'm typing all this I can hear the Canadian national athem playing in my mind ( it must be the soap from the brainwashing leaking out into my ear canals)

Rigging will mostly be for show but will be as realistic as possible, I've actually got to take the masts down for shipping to our new home. The stay's are attached with pins so I just have to pull the pins out take the masts off, wrap them in a towel and lay it length wise along the ship, and then slap the whole ship in a big ole box

[ZCerberus]

Yeah? Maybe the war of 1812 is the most known Canadian/American conflict but it has nothing to do with Agamemnon and the origin of the word, at all. You can't deny it was almost a knee jerk reaction that when an American says "I don't know about Canada" the standard reply is, "Canada burned the White House". It is silly, and I was just trying to give you some braindrying to go with all the Canadian washing.

Canadian brainwashing soap? Canadians use soap?

Oh and be nice to Phred he is from Wisconsin, it is well known that all Wisconsinites have a guns and are ready to defend the border from Canadian spies and invaders.

And if you do get deported to America, be aware we don't put gravy on our fries...

Rigging will mostly be for show but will be as realistic as possible, I've actually got to take the masts down for shipping to our new home. The stay's are attached with pins so I just have to pull the pins out take the masts off, wrap them in a towel and lay it length wise along the ship, and then slap the whole ship in a big ole box

The ship has masts? last I saw it was hull with some cannons on it. Have you made some great progress since last post? Or are you speaking of another ship?

[Mister Phes]

Now lads its good that you're passionate enough to engage in this intelligent debate however this isn't the place to be doing it.

Perhaps if you wish to continue this debate then you find a more appropriate area of Eurobricks. In my opinion parts of this debate seems like a personal squabble and it would be preferable if you could approach the topic more objectively. The other Administrators probably won't resolve the situation as leniently should things get out of hand.

But I'm sure you're both intelligent and distinguished gentlemen who could shake hands and put this behind you, thus having no need to continue the debate elsewhere.

[ZCerberus]

Now lads its good that you're passionate enough to engage in this intelligent debate however this isn't the place to be doing it...

The other Administrators probably won't resolve the situation as leniently should things get out of hand.

But I'm sure you're both intelligent and distinguished gentlemen who could shake hands and put this behind you, thus having no need to continue the debate elsewhere.

Yes, yes, Mr Phes., you are the man, we all know this. I was just annoyed for some reason, more than usual. I have no qualms with my Canadian friends. I wouldn't call it "personal", I have nothing personally against Mr. Morse, or his excellent contribution to the forum, I was just expressing an opinion. I didn't intend for it to become a flame fest. Anyhow, for my part, I promise to behave.

Back to the last question though, last I saw, there were no masts on the ship, it only had a hull and some cannons. Has there been a lot of progress since the last pictures? I know we won't see any updates until the move, but we haven't seen any pictures in a while.

[Aaron Morse]

I hereby promise to abstain from teasing others for not less than one month, in addition I will abstain from quoting Canadian Propaganda for not less than 6 months. I also offer freely an Apology to any and all I may have been snarky with... ZCerberus you build nice boats what not to like....friends? friends! I hereby declare the War of 2007 over. :)

I had the masts in place for the "Eggs and Bacon" just for reference, but not secured with stays. I was reffering to transporting the Challenger....oops! Progress on the Eggy is proceeding quite nicely though. I've gotten my order in of sliding parts and have rebuilt the keel. Let me tell you it works pretty darn well! I'm stilla little concerned about the structural integrity of it once I get the upper gun deck on it but I've got two layers of black plate on the bottomfollowed by a layer of tile before the section slides out, and each section is supported every 12 studs by 2x8 black bricks. Picture will have to wait though, my wife is in a packing frenzy right now.

BTW I would have responded earlier but I was getting some funky error from yesterday until this morning every time I tried even bringing up this web site...

Yes, yes, Mr Phes., you are the man, we all know this. I was just annoyed for some reason, more than usual. I have no qualms with my Canadian friends. I wouldn't call it "personal", I have nothing personally against Mr. Morse, or his excellent contribution to the forum, I was just expressing an opinion. I didn't intend for it to become a flame fest. Anyhow, for my part, I promise to behave.

Back to the last question though, last I saw, there were no masts on the ship, it only had a hull and some cannons. Has there been a lot of progress since the last pictures? I know we won't see any updates until the move, but we haven't seen any pictures in a while.

[ZCerberus]

BTW I would have responded earlier but I was getting some funky error from yesterday until this morning every time I tried even bringing up this web site...

Yes, I was getting that all yesterday as well and for a while this morning.

So are you ever planning an adding sails to the Challenger? As I recall there aren't any on that ship either.

EDIT: Re-reading the posts I see that is indeed what you said, you were going to add yard arms to the Challenger. I once again recommend an actual canvas as a cloth in sail making. It is stiff enough that it doesn't require Willy's glue methods and can still be dyed if need be.

I was considering some sort of slide out idea on the Arbiter II, but went with a pull down approach instead because I thought it would be too hard to get the slides to work with mast rigging. I didn't make any working models though as I decided on the pull down method after realizing how useful technic lift arms could be from the Viking sets. Unfortunately the pull down method made the distance between the two decks a little larger than I would like and makes the lower deck look a little, well... low, but I was happy overall with the approach.

Hey, it the War of 2007 is kinda like the war of 1812... US versus Canada (w/o the British), it should have been over before it started, you burned some stuff, I sacked a city, then Phes came along and made us give it all back.

[Aaron Morse]

I think the slide will work fine as long as its only on the bottom gun deck so it shouldn't interfere with any rigging. The upper deck will have to use the old pull out sections.

Yes, I was getting that all yesterday as well and for a while this morning.

So are you ever planning an adding sails to the Challenger? As I recall there aren't any on that ship either.

EDIT: Re-reading the posts I see that is indeed what you said, you were going to add yard arms to the Challenger. I once again recommend an actual canvas as a cloth in sail making. It is stiff enough that it doesn't require Willy's glue methods and can still be dyed if need be.

I was considering some sort of slide out idea on the Arbiter II, but went with a pull down approach instead because I thought it would be too hard to get the slides to work with mast rigging. I didn't make any working models though as I decided on the pull down method after realizing how useful technic lift arms could be from the Viking sets. Unfortunately the pull down method made the distance between the two decks a little larger than I would like and makes the lower deck look a little, well... low, but I was happy overall with the approach.

Hey, it the War of 2007 is kinda like the war of 1812... US versus Canada (w/o the British), it should have been over before it started, you burned some stuff, I sacked a city, then Phes came along and made us give it all back.

[Capn Frank]

Hello all again. Finally moved into the new place and got internet rehooked. (and I now have my very own lego room!)

...

Hi Aaron,

Welcome back! I'm sorry if it was mentioned already, but is the Agamemnon a 64 gun ship(which originally was a 44)

I'm very curious about the progress of this ship since your move and time away from the internet :)

P