European or American, who is the better builder?

[blueandwhite]

Doesn't really matter as long as you have fun. I personally am not fond of those who build to impress. Their are varying degrees of of what is considered a "good MOC". Plus, everyone has a different style, so its not as if all Americans build the same and all Europeans build the same ;-)

-l2k-

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "build to impress". MOCing is fun on a personal level. The fact that others may take enjoyment out of viewing your work is simply icing. And, as you've said, everyone has a personal style. Some people prefer MOCs that elude a set-like quality, whereas others prefer larger MOCs. There is no "correct" way to MOC.

I'm just uncertain as to what "building to impress" means. Perhaps you could elaborate on this?

[Jipay]

I think he means people who are building MOCs and then join the virtual club of elistist builders who are looking down at everything which isn't entirely snot built.

In my opinion the debate should be closed though. I'm obviously the best builder :-D

[captaintau]

On the one hand, based on posts since my last one, I drop my suggestion and will keep quiet. You're right.

On the other hand, yes it is possible to come up with a "best". Look at the display sports in the olympics. Figure skating, gymnastics etc etc. Countries submit their best, they're all judged individually and ultimatley one performer will win and one country will win overall.

[Kikuichimonji]

On the one hand, based on posts since my last one, I drop my suggestion and will keep quiet. You're right.

On the other hand, yes it is possible to come up with a "best". Look at the display sports in the olympics. Figure skating, gymnastics etc etc. Countries submit their best, they're all judged individually and ultimatley one performer will win and one country will win overall.

Still, such a contest would be based on the preferences of those who judge it. There are no statistics (like in any other sport), so you can never measure it without prejudice.

[captaintau]

Still, such a contest would be based on the preferences of those who judge it. There are no statistics (like in any other sport), so you can never measure it without prejudice.

Yeah, but what's the problem. This type of judging happens all the time. In November I judged Kata performance at a Martial Arts event. Some of my students were competing and I judged them as if I didn't know them. Its more than possible.

[Starwars4J]

Yeah, but what's the problem. This type of judging happens all the time. In November I judged Kata performance at a Martial Arts event. Some of my students were competing and I judged them as if I didn't know them. Its more than possible.

How do you know you judged them as if you didn't know them? It could've been subconscious ;-)

[captaintau]

How do you know you judged them as if you didn't know them? It could've been subconscious ;-)

OK, fair point, I'll rephrase: "I judged them as impartially as I possibly good. To the best of my [concious] knowledge I showed no bias."

[Starwars4J]

I think that's the problem though, it's very hard, almost impossible to be completely detached :-/

Why do we need to judge anyway? This isn't a competition, it's a fun hobby. We should just have fun :-)

[WesternOutlaw]

Why do we need to judge anyway? This isn't a competition, it's a fun hobby. We should just have fun :-)

Contests and a little competition are always fun, but in regard to the question asked, unless you identify what you're comparing (more than just in general terms), it makes answering the question difficult. We need a specific theme and a statistical sample.

A better question might be: American vs. European Trains like the thread below:

American vs. European Trains

Not saying this to be "politically correct", but there are excellent builders throughout the world. I'd vote for Jipay but I don't think I've ever seen one of his MOCs. ;-)

PS: and everyone should know by now that Americans are the true pioneers and inventors of the world.

[Kikuichimonji]

PS: and everyone should know by now that Americans are the true pioneers and inventors of the world.

Just for the record, you do realize that just about all Americans are descendants of the Europeans who discovered America a couple of centuries ago? :-P

[Minifig Lecturer]

Actually, I think that whoever has the most money and spent it wisely on good parts will make the best MOCs. Especially if they have a credit card and can order good parts online. Unfortunately I don't :-(

Building good mocs is easy if you have the parts.

This is the best moc I have seen in a while http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=226713

I like MOCs that are built to impress lego2000! :-D

[WesternOutlaw]

Just for the record, you do realize that just about all Americans are descendants of the Europeans who discovered America a couple of centuries ago? :-P

The comment you quoted above was really meant in jest, but it sounds like you may have taken it a little more seriously than my intent. To answer your question:

I think that four hundred years have given Americans the distinction of being much different than the European colonialists that helped form the foundation of modern America. Colonialism and a "pioneering-spirit" brought on by a harsh unexplored geography has contributed to a much different way of thinking than that of traditional Europeans. Yes, we are all descendants of older cultures (some of us more than others), but these changes over centuries; with the infusion of other non-European cultures, resulted in a much different way of thinking. I refer to this as American Injunuity and/or a "Pioneering Spirit". Early Americans had to invent for survival and this spirit continues in American culture and business.

I believe I answered the question asked in this thread earlier, and I honestly don't believe that Europeans or Americans are "better" than the other - in Lego building or other things; but we are different and I'm sure you would agree with this.

[Jipay]

And on the other hand, it seems that loosing the possibility of pionniring around created problems in the US that don't appear as much in Europe :-P

Back on judging, it should never be allowed in sports. Just look at what happens in every ice skating contest.

[WesternOutlaw]

And on the other hand, it seems that loosing the possibility of pionniring around created problems in the US that don't appear as much in Europe :-P

I'm not sure I understand what you mean in regard to "loosing the possibility of pioneering around". Do you mean lack of unexplored area (new frontiers)?

PS. Both the United States and Europe have their different problems, but your taxes and cost of living are horrible compared to many places in the US. I don't know how your job market is either. I would imagine that they differ all over Europe but construction and many other industries really flourish in the Western United States. We have growth which is good but not without its problems.

[blueandwhite]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean in regard to "loosing the possibility of pioneering around". Do you mean lack of unexplored area (new frontiers)?

PS. Both the United States and Europe have their different problems, but your taxes and cost of living are horrible compared to many places in the US. I don't know how your job market is either. I would imagine that they differ all over Europe but construction and many other industries really flourish in the Western United States. We have growth which is good but not without its problems.

Isn't this getting a bit too political? I mean, is it appropriate to be debating the merits of high/low taxation on a LEGO forum?

[Kikuichimonji]

Actually, I think that whoever has the most money and spent it wisely on good parts will make the best MOCs. Especially if they have a credit card and can order good parts online. Unfortunately I don't :-(

Building good mocs is easy if you have the parts.

You couldn't be more wrong. When you only have a few parts you are forced to be creative and often end up with better MOCs. Having tons of bricks is nice, but talent is much, much more important.

About the political thing...this topic is getting out of hand. Apart from the fact that it is senseless (as I said earlier), it's now being turned into a discussion about American heritage.

[Minifig Lecturer]

You couldn't be more wrong. When you only have a few parts you are forced to be creative and often end up with better MOCs. Having tons of bricks is nice, but talent is much, much more important.

Well let's agree to disagree about this ;-)

[Jipay]

Yeah seems like it's getting off hand, my comment obviously triggered some defense mechanism while it was only intended as an inoffensive joke about people not moving as much as they used to. I don't see the connection with the taxes either.

So back on the topic, I have to agree and disagree with the restictive parts forcing to be creative. There are some things that wouldn't just render as nice with basic bricks. On the other hand, we clearly have too many different bricks right now. It's hard to think about them all when you imagine how to build something *sad*

[blueandwhite]

So back on the topic, I have to agree and disagree with the restictive parts forcing to be creative. There are some things that wouldn't just render as nice with basic bricks. On the other hand, we clearly have too many different bricks right now. It's hard to think about them all when you imagine how to build something *sad*

Honestly, you can be a great builder without alot of bricks, but having a large quantity of bricks doesn't automatically make you a great builder.

I've seen some amazing MOCs built from a very small portion of bricks. Conversely, there are some positively huge MOCs that lack real punch, simply because the builder has not used his or her bricks effectively. Quantity and diversity certainly give a builder more options, but only where the builder is talented enough to make good use of them.

[Minifig Lecturer]

Honestly, you can be a great builder without alot of bricks, but having a large quantity of bricks doesn't automatically make you a great builder.

Yes, you are right and I dont disagree with you about this. But what I really meant I guess was that there are loads of great builders out there who don't have enough bricks or parts to show just how good they are at making great MOCs.

[WesternOutlaw]

My comment obviously triggered some defense mechanism while it was only intended as an inoffensive joke about people not moving as much as they used to. I don't see the connection with the taxes either.

No offense taken. I wasn't sure what you meant. You had mentioned problems in the US which I would agree with you about, and my point was that all countries have problems. My comment relating to taxes was one such problem that I know is an issue in many parts of Europe.

I agree with the other comments relating to keeping politics out of Lego forums (sorry if I brought them in but I was responding to a question about history). I honestly try not to discuss politics nor religion in any of these forums even in the community forum where I often see them discussed. I don't respond for this reason.

In any case; relating to this topic, I think that having a lot of bricks helps the creative process.

[Jipay]

it does ! sometimes when i'm building, I see a brick, and it triggers my imagination. My brain goes wild and imagine all the things I could with it, and then I'm puting in an MOC soimethign I wouldn't have think about at the begining ! *sweet*

[Hobbes]

I'd say Europeans (Germans to be precise) building American stuff:

The Mack from the movie Convoy by misterzumbi

X-D