The best way to handle this is the extra parts box method. This way Lego could revamp the rare parts supply.

Having had a quick read of this topic, there's one issue that I think will affect it in the not-too-distant future: cheap, widely available 3D printers.

At the moment, if I really want a 5x11 red panel, and there's none available on bricklink, from TLG, in set, etc, then I've got no option and have to do without one. But I predict that within a few years there will be another option: to print one myself.

Now obviously it won't be as good as a genuine one, and there will be many people (probably myself included) who won't resort to this at all.

But some people will. And I'm interested to see how TLG handles it. If we liken printing your own Lego parts to pirating music or movies, then I'm hoping that TLG goes down the path that iTunes and Netflix has: if you make the product easily available for purchase, then most (or at least many) people will prefer to legitimately purchase them rather than resorting to piracy.

It's currently not a problem, so there's no real pressure at the moment for them to address it. But 3D printing is coming, and I'm sure that some folks at TLG are already considering strategies to address it. They're probably more concerned about people printing General Grievous than a 5x11 panel though.

What I'd love to see is a community-based system where people vote for what parts they'd like to see made available, and TLG takes this into account (with certain limits of course) and perhaps opens a huge bricklink-style online store, or monthly releases of parts packs, or even just using this to stock the pick-a-brick at the shops.

Anyway, that's my 2c.

I saw you mention this before and I didn't say anything then.

If re-creating lego bricks was simple then wouldn't we all be using the fake chinese counterparts that are rare in "real" legos? The answer is no, because everyone, including children can tell the difference...and there will ALWAYS be a difference. For the purposes of MOC's sure, some people might but I think most wouldn't even consider it. Thats not to say that we don't all do it already.... I doubt anyone here uses 100% lego string and pneumatic tubing...and yet still you can tell the difference right away. I guess my point is, viable alternitives have already exisited and despite that they have not invaded to the degree you assume 3D printing will.

Lego bricks are manufactured with very high precision. It will take affordable 3D printers several years to reach that level of sophistication.

However, with 3D printing available, it may not be necessary to print Lego compatible components. One can print components for say a non Technic gearbox and just make end points compatible with Lego bricks so that entire gearbox can be fitted on any models.

This is like motors. Each motor has specific studs/holes to fit it with other parts but internals of the motors are hidden. It is only the interfaces which needs to be compatible with Lego parts.

The idea of creating non-existing parts is nice! I have tried this by ordering some 3D printed parts. The quality was nowhere near thevquality TLC offers. However, they were usable.

Regarding existing out-of-production or rare parts; you are probably better of using existing parts and spray painting them.

Both solutions are not for the purist of course

I usually use bricklink for my part orders, unless I need pneumatic parts, in which case I usually order from LEGO education. I've also ordered from LEGO Direct, but usually only if the parts I'm looking for are new and the prices on Bricklink are inflated. I've also ordered a lot of panels through lugbulk.

Eric, is there anyway that we can find a loophole and start our own LUG even though we are 2,500 miles apart..? We'll call it TechLUG... There are some other key guys around the country to represent... Al we need is a website with a forum right..? I like to think that we are doing the best that we can to represent Technic here in the states...

I'm all for a TechLUG! I don't know who is in charge of the LUGbulk program, but next time I see Kevin Hinkle at a show, I'll ask him about the possibility of a Technic LUGbulk program.

I just read through the lugbulk program rules, and I can't find anything that specifically says there can't be a virtual LUG. However, it does say that the LUG need to display at least 2 times per year. I suppose that's open to interpretation, and maybe it counts if only one of us from the LUG displays at a meeting? I dunno.

I would love to see Technic become more popular here in the states. Aside from the robotics and GBC stuff, it seems like there are only a handful of Technic builders that visit the shows here in the states. It seems that many of the people that visit shows don't really know what Technic is, and several times, I've heard people make comments about Technic not really being LEGO. Sometimes I get the feeling that even the event organizers don't understand Technic. The last few shows I've been to, I've had the impression like the Technic Mocs are being pushed to the back burner and kinda get the leftover display space. The exception to this was at BrickWorld, where I was the only person displaying anything Technic. The Technic section was me!

Fortunately, my local LUG has some folks that build GBC and robotics stuff, so we always have some Technic stuff on the LUGbulk. Over the last couple years, I've managed to order 130 black, 50 grey, and 50 yellow 11x3 curved panels; as well as 50 black, 50 grey 5x11 panels, as well as some other Technic bits. I did miss out on the yellow and red 5x11 panels, but maybe I can get some yellow ones in the order next year.

Edited January 15, 201312 yr by dhc6twinotter

only a handful of Technic builders that visit the shows here in the states[/Quote]

May be due to huge distance among towns in USA?

I saw you mention this before and I didn't say anything then.

If re-creating lego bricks was simple then wouldn't we all be using the fake chinese counterparts that are rare in "real" legos? The answer is no, because everyone, including children can tell the difference...and there will ALWAYS be a difference. For the purposes of MOC's sure, some people might but I think most wouldn't even consider it. Thats not to say that we don't all do it already.... I doubt anyone here uses 100% lego string and pneumatic tubing...and yet still you can tell the difference right away. I guess my point is, viable alternitives have already exisited and despite that they have not invaded to the degree you assume 3D printing will.

I'd say that I'm predicting that widespread, cheap, reasonable-quality 3D printing will provide an impetus for TLG to re-think the way in which parts are supplied to the community, rather than assuming. I could well be wrong; it could be that 3D printing is the next virtual reality, and it never really takes off. It could be that it never reaches the quality or price point that anyone would bother to print LEGO parts. Time will tell.

I'm not sure your analogy is correct. Yes, cheap knock-offs exist, but from what I've seen on the forums, they're basically only full sets. I don't currently having the option of going to a website and ordering cheap fake red 5x11 panels or yellow 6L half liftarms, or whatever other rare pieces I can't find on bricklink. It's not the same as being able to create them yourself without leaving your house.

Using the music industry as an analogy again, there were always cheap Chinese bootleg CDs available if you knew where to look. But music piracy didn't reach the point of threatening the industry until CD burners and MP3 players matured as technologies, and people could do the piracy themselves.

The analogy fails, of course, with the quality issue; fake parts, either commercially produced knock-offs or home-printed ones will never match the quality of genuine parts. Again, I personally would most likely not use them; I'd just do without. But that's a long way from saying no-one will ever do it, or that it's not something that TLG might need to take into account in the future. If someone really wanted to make a white Gallardo, and the right parts simply weren't available legitimately, how bad would the quality have to be before you could say for sure that they wouldn't resort to printing them themself, if they had the capability?

I hope it doesn't become widespread. I'd hate nothing more than buying a used set from eBay only to find that some of the parts were home-printed. What I'm hoping is that TLG gets on the front foot and in recognition of the threat, takes steps to ensure that genuine parts are more readily available, however that might be.

This is a company I am familiar with.

http://www.makerbot.com/

I wish buying authentic parts was easier and affordable. Picking and choosing my sources and then paying shipping each time I make a purchase adds up way too fast. I just can't see printing my own parts. If I wanted that weird platic feel I would build with mega blocks. Now with metal 3d printing I would like to see that.

This is a company I am familiar with.

http://www.makerbot.com/

I wish buying authentic parts was easier and affordable. Picking and choosing my sources and then paying shipping each time I make a purchase adds up way too fast. I just can't see printing my own parts. If I wanted that weird platic feel I would build with mega blocks. Now with metal 3d printing I would like to see that.

Makerbot and other currently available 3D printers use ABS as its medium, the same plastic that Lego uses. I have no idea if there are different grades of ABS, but I don't think it's too much to assume that the same or similar grades will at some point be available.

Lego parts are made with tolerances as low as 10 micron, or 0.01mm. (source)

Doing a little research, I've found that the makerbot replicator 2 has a resolution of 100 microns (0.1mm), while its rival Formlabs Form 1 has confusing specs, claiming "layers as thin as 25 microns and with x/y features as small as 300 microns". (source)

So they're clearly not there yet, and I never said they were. These machines cost several thousand dollars each.

But give it 5 or 10 years, and consider where they might be at. The makerbot 1 was released in January 2012 (I think) and had a resolution of 200 to 300 micron (source). The makerbot 2 had reduced this to 100 micron by September 2012.

Time will tell...

Even after the printer is paid for, the price per piece will probably be higher than just buying stuff on Bricklink for most parts, but, as has been said, getting exactly the part you want when you need it might outweigh the price factor for some users.

(...)

But give it 5 or 10 years, and consider where they might be at. The makerbot 1 was released in January 2012 (I think) and had a resolution of 200 to 300 micron (source). The makerbot 2 had reduced this to 100 micron by September 2012.

Time will tell...

I think, in the end it will become more a question of finish than form. If you don't mind a slight surface texture and color variance then, one of these days 3D printing could certainly be viable. Still, when it comes to smooth, shiny pieces, it's hard to beat injection molding. Even at a resolution of 100 microns (that's about the thickness of a piece of paper) your eye is going to notice the brick isn't smooth. Depending on lighting, you could have to go down as far as 4 microns (25x better) before a sharp eyed observer would accept it as a glass-like finish (most people couldn't see the defect itself at that resolution but surface refraction could throw off the appearance causing light and color shifts that are larger than the defect itself).

What is it that makes the rare parts rare? Is it color, design, or something else. For me the axle with tread and nut are rare and 11 length axles as well.

What is it that makes the rare parts rare? Is it color, design, or something else. For me the axle with tread and nut are rare and 11 length axles as well.

Lego has historically only sold sets, not parts. This means that the only source of parts to the second hand market is from people who have parted out sets. When a part was only ever contained in a single or small number of sets, it is rare. This doesn't necessarily mean it will be valuable. There are plenty of rare parts that nobody wants. But when rarity is coupled with demand, prices become high. Sometimes a part exists in lots of sets but only in one set in a certain color. The yellow #4 connector is a perfect example. #4 connectors are in lots of sets in lots of colors, but yellow only came in the Power Puller and there were only two of them. On top of that, the Power Puller was not a very popular set so that limits supply even more. If a part came only in a single Star Wars set, you can still assume that there are hundred of thousands or even millions in circulation. But if a part came in only a single Technic or train set, there may be very few available.

I completeley agree with you guys

I'm trying to build Nathaneal Kuipers Concept Car, and my total is over 200 dollars just because of the rare parts

I think, in the end it will become more a question of finish than form. If you don't mind a slight surface texture and color variance then, one of these days 3D printing could certainly be viable. Still, when it comes to smooth, shiny pieces, it's hard to beat injection molding. Even at a resolution of 100 microns (that's about the thickness of a piece of paper) your eye is going to notice the brick isn't smooth.

This.

Also, most Lego pieces are surprisingly strong. It only takes a minor defect in the wrong section of a Lego part and it'll break the first time you use it. With Technic that's more likely than with most parts, since we often stress parts more than (say) castle builders do. 3D printed parts are usually as strong in compression as the raw plastic, but weaker in tension. Technic relies on tension a lot.

I've played with 3D printed parts for an unrelated task, and we really struggled to find anyone who could reliably print tension members. We ended up using plastic-coated carbon fibre matting and tape hand-laid in molds for some parts (because you can lay that up in the mold like you do with fibreglass, then add the filler plastic and heat). It's tedious, and if anyone in Oz was set up to do plastic mat rotomolding we would have gone with that, but they aren't.

If you just want a plastic model to sit on a shelf I think minor reworking of 3D printed parts is viable now, mostly just pressing parts onto a hot plate to get the surface finish right. Colour matching might be your biggest remaining issue, I know TLG struggle with that and you may end up having to print all of the parts in a particular colour just to get a match (ie, if everything is the same not-quite-Lego orange it'll look fine, but one Lego orange part will stand out)

Oh, and hand-finishing a 3D printed mold is definitely a superior method, but requires you to have injection molding equipment to use the mold with.

Edited January 17, 201312 yr by Moz

Doing a little research, I've found that the makerbot replicator 2 has a resolution of 100 microns (0.1mm), while its rival Formlabs Form 1 has confusing specs, claiming "layers as thin as 25 microns and with x/y features as small as 300 microns". (source)

The overall part tolerance is influenced by other factors, such as shrinkage, dropping etc. so the actual part tolerances will be wider than that number even. The resolution really just gives the smallest detail that the printer is able to resolve. (source)

I've just read through this thread, as I thought it might answer a question I had.

I've only just returned to Lego after decades away, and (with the exception of a UCS R2-D2) I've stuck to buying Technic. I've got a few sets now, but a mild case of Lego OCD means that I want to keep all the parts for each set separate.

So. When it comes to MOC'ing, which I think I'd like to have a crack at, once I've leaned the basics by building the sets, where do I get the parts from?

It would appear that there's no 'official' channel for buying large quantities of Technic parts, and so I had a look on that well known auction site (I'm a n00b, not sure what the rules are as to mentioning other sites), and there are plenty of people selling 'mixed 500g bags of Technic parts'.

Anyone gone down that route? I'm assuming it's genuine stuff (is there a problem with fake Lego parts?), so just wondered whether that might be a cost effective way of getting a 'starter kit' together.

Any thoughts?

Cheers!

Welcome to EB!!

There are several threads on this topic, but I will give you a short answer.

You can order parts directly from Lego. This is ideal for large quantities. You can only order 10 (?) different kind of parts per order, if I am not mistaken. And only parts which are still in production.

https://service.lego...arts/#BasicInfo

The best source is Bricklink, the unofficial Lego Parts site.

http://www.bricklink.com/

To sum it up; Bricklink is the best thing that ever happened to the AFOL community, besides Lego itself

Here's a topic on Bricklink Questions:

http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=23527

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by Gekke Ted

I'll have a look at the links you posted.

Thanks very much!

I'll have a look at the links you posted.

Thanks very much!

Cool, no problem!

If you have any further questions, feel free to PM.

This thread is to brainstorm ideas on how to improve this situation, even to make suggestions to the LEGO Company on how they can better support the fan community in this regard.[/Quote]

Best solution IMHO

You browse MOC catalog

You select a model.

You click on a button called "Build".

You are presented with a list of parts required.

{up to this level already possible in Rebrickable}

You are taken to Lego's website.

You are shown the total cost

You then click on "Order"

You pay online.

The customized set arrives in your home in 3 days.

But will TLG do it? If they want, they can do it in no time. Which indicates they don't want to do it. TLG wants to sell sets and they intentionally design sets so that it becomes difficult to build some good MOC without buying lots of standard sets (due to parts availability). If fans can order parts like a-la-carte then that might dent their business model (and profit).

PS: This link proves my point.

http://gizmodo.com/5019797/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-lego

When can we buy ANY Lego element on shop.Lego.com (and maybe get recommended replacement suggestions if they are not available). If I will pay $300+ for a GREAT Lego Technic model used on eBay, I certainly would have no problems dropping the same into one of my own creations?

We are always working to improve the assortment of pieces available through our Pick a Brick service. Right now we have over 900 elements available. Unlike the traditional toy retail business, it's more difficult for us to project which individual pieces or elements will be in demand in a given time period. For example, we know that kids like Lego sets with wheels. So if a new set has wheels, we look at other sets historically that have wheels to predict the demand. But in an individual brick fulfillment, we have no way to know when someone may decide to build a six-foot monster that is orange, thereby requiring a huge amount of orange bricks. As a result, we currently limit the number of bricks available so that we can maintain healthy inventory and prevent consumer frustration, but also test to see what people want the most on a piece by piece basis.

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by mobi

I also find ordering parts quiet frustrating on brick link , u have to use so many shops, the copy and paste from rebrickable is a great idea but when u add it to a shop it shows u all the parts that shop has, but doesn't show u the parts that shop doesn't have!

Also i find it frustrating that the shipping time from some shops is soooo slow :(

It would be great if someone listed say the top 10 brick link shops that carry the most technic parts, this would make it a lot easier on us when ordering for mocs.

Blakbird is correct though that more people are building mocs now that instructions are more available.

Also I'm a collector so i hate breaking sets for parts unless they are small sets I'm not very interested in,

Sets iv broke for parts are the hauler and the tractor and log trailer.

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by davidmull

I support the parts pack idea. Looking at education.lego.com they already sort of have parts packs. It's just not widely/easily available.

I find it strange that TLG forbids reselling parts from LUG orders. They are not supporting the secondary market anyway, so why stop those that do the cumbersome picking, packing and shipping of smaller orders. I think it hurts the techinc sales.

Best solution IMHO

You browse MOC catalog

You select a model.

You click on a button called "Build".

You are presented with a list of parts required.

{up to this level already possible in Rebrickable}

You are taken to Lego's website.

You are shown the total cost

You then click on "Order"

You pay online.

The customized set arrives in your home in 3 days.

I'd say for the customer that's an ideal solution.

However, look at it from TLG's point of view. Unless you're building something very small, a typical order - whether it be for a specific MOC or just a builder adding to their parts collection - is likely to be hundreds, if not thousands of pieces.

Unless TLG can develop an extremely sophisticated fulfilment system, then it's likely that the parts selection will have to be done by hand. Even for an experienced employee who knows where all the parts are, each order will take a considerable amount of time to complete.

Plus of course the packing etc.

For such a labour intensive operation as this, to make it viable, the cost per piece is likely to be so high as to put all but the most dedicated builder off. Which means that the demand for the service is driven down.

And if there's little or no demand, then why do it?

I'd be fairly certain that TLG have considered this - at the end of the day they're a business that exists to make a profit - and they will have come to the conclusion that it's simply not a viable proposition.

It may be that in the future, technology advances to the point where this does become practical. If 3D printing or similar gets to the stage where parts can be produced on demand, then we could see a turnaround.

But while parts are produced in bulk, and would probably have to be picked by hand, I think you're going to have to stick with Bricklink.

it's likely that the parts selection will have to be done by hand[/Quote]

Although I can't comment on Lego's warehouse, in most large warehouses for big companies, there are robots which fetches the parts from shelves.

[/font][/color]

Although I can't comment on Lego's warehouse, in most large warehouses for big companies, there are robots which fetches the parts from shelves.

This is true for the production of regular sets. However, there's no automated collection for pick a brick. So TLG keeps an inventory of around 900 parts, which are picked manually.

(my best guess)