WW2 and general warry-ness avoidance on the part of LEGO corp.

[Siegfried]

(though this was NOT my direct intention)

I'm not convinced. I can't really see the point in this topic but if it can be vaguely civil it can last a few more hours...

[ShaydDeGrai]

My dad saw action as a teenager in WWII and has vivid memories of it to this day (he can't remember what he did _yesterday_ but he remember the 1940's (both the war and its long aftermath, economically, politically and culturally)). I also have an elderly neighbor who lost both her parents and worked as forced child labor in a munitions factory during the war. So I don't think you can exactly say there's nobody around anymore who'd take offense to a LEGO tanks-for-tots theme.

Don't get me wrong, I've built tanks, air planes, landing craft, pillboxes. I remember re-enacting the invasion of Normandy after watching The Longest Day and making an absolutely pathetic attempt at building an aircraft carrier after seeing Midway, but that was _me_ as a young teenager with _my dad_ there putting things in perspective as we worked, not a brightly colored package sitting on a shelf in a toy store screaming "play with me, I'm fun!" I hate the cliche, but there are certainly 'teachable moments' to be found in even the darkest passages of history, but it's not TLG's job to decide when a child is mature enough to "understand" history and mass marketing toys that, in some people's minds, glorify WWII without that understanding, is just not right.

Aside from the terrible realities of war in general, WWII is a particular ongoing sore point because it was so encompassing and because of the many buried secrets that are only now coming to light. Atrocities on all sides are slowly being declassified. Archeologists are only now starting to take a hard look at concentration camp sites. On one hand, half the world's population has some personalized family lore about how the war impacted a parent, grandparent or family friend; on the other hand, holocaust deniers are alive and well across the Americas and in Europe and they keep trying to spin the facts, downplay the tragedies and weave lies in their favor.

I've heard plenty of arguments along the lines of "but LEGO already does ..." or "Orcs/Pirates/Ninjas/Stormtroopers/Etc are violent, and they make them..." to this I can only respond thus: Given the history of the Hitler Youth and Nazi indoctrination programs, how do you think TLG and the media would react if a Neo-Nazi organization held a rally started handing out official LEGO Panzer Tank kits to every blond haired, blue eyed kid they could find while sending kids who didn't look "Arian" enough home empty handed ? (And if you don't think that would ever happen, then you probably haven't been paying attention). Jedi fighting droids is an abstract fantasy; racism, cults, intolerance, youth violence and even child soldiers are all too real today.

If you want WWII models, that's fine. Download some photos, buy some parts and build away. If you like how it turns out, by all means post some photos and share it with people who can appreciate it for what it is, but I support TLG in NOT mass marketing tanks-for-tots even though, as a kid, I probably would have wanted one.

Edited September 11, 2012 by ShaydDeGrai

[LEGO Historian]

This entire discussion reminds me of when TLG was blindsighted by a Polish artist back in 1996, who's ambiguous intentions got TLG to give him the LEGO parts that he wanted for "some" LEGO constructions.

Well that "construction" turned into a very embarrassing moment for TLG back in the 1990s... and I'm sure that not only is WWII still in the minds and nightmares of their dreams... but this publicity fiasco probably was the icing on the cake as to why they will NOT make WWII sets...

For those of you too young to remember... maybe this will give you another indication why there will be no WWII LEGO sets anytime in the future....

http://www.likecool.com/Lego_Concentration_Camp--Toy--Gear.html

[ShaydDeGrai]

This entire discussion reminds me of when TLG was blindsighted by a Polish artist back in 1996, who's ambiguous intentions got TLG to give him the LEGO parts that he wanted for "some" LEGO constructions.

Well that "construction" turned into a very embarrassing moment for TLG back in the 1990s... and I'm sure that not only is WWII still in the minds and nightmares of their dreams... but this publicity fiasco probably was the icing on the cake as to why they will NOT make WWII sets...

For those of you too young to remember... maybe this will give you another indication why there will be no WWII LEGO sets anytime in the future....

http://www.likecool.com/Lego_Concentration_Camp--Toy--Gear.html

As if the subject matter wasn't bad enough, it's not even a very good model. You'd think they'd at least be able to get a cease and desist order on the use of the trademarked logo on the packaging.

[davee123]

If anyone is seriously offended I'd suggest some counselling is in order, or perhaps talking to thier Pastor.

I think the offense is less at the idea of LEGO WWII and more at your statement that everyone that experienced WWII is pretty much gone. That statement is more than clearly false, which makes you out to be either grossly misinformed, or an internet troll.

If we wait for every single person with any sort of memories of the horrors of WW2, we'll lose all contact with the subject

Are you trying to imply that a LEGO set representing some aspect of WWII would somehow be made superior based on firsthand evidence rather than indirect evidence? I could see that being a factor in, say, a book, or a film. But ... a LEGO set? That seems silly.

Now, I COULD believe that the market for WWII memorabilia is slowly getting smaller-- I have no idea. Maybe the further we get from WWII, the less marketability there would be behind such LEGO sets. But otherwise, I don't see any downside to waiting, besides making people wait that are lusting after these sets.

The market is there and LEGO desperately needs every shekel it can lay its hands on if my 'inside source' can be relied upon.

I don't know who your inside source is, but it would seem to be inaccurate. LEGO's been wildly successful as of late. They're supposedly planning around NOT being so successful, and expecting a downturn, thanks to the generally fad nature of the toy industry, but I haven't heard ANY rumors about them being in trouble financially. It may be possible that you misinterpreted the information, but I certainly can't say.

If LEGO chooses a bolder approach and moves into WW2 stuff, then they may have a chance of surviving. I would much rather have LEGO with a 'gentler and as neutral as possible WW2 theme', than no LEGO at all.

LEGO is certainly interested in tapping into the market, but also wants to preserve their image. That's one reason why they made the decision to sell the Sopwith Camel-- it's military, just a more "gentle" introduction to LEGO military than plopping down a B-17 bomber or a howitzer.

However, again, you really sound disreputable with your sensationalizing. I expect long before LEGO went out of business, they'd be purchased or relaunched by another company. "LEGO" as a brand name is way too valuable. Hey, maybe the Kristiansens would rather see the company disappear rather than see it owned by a giant like Hasbro or something, but I think it's a LONG way from having to make that decision.

LEGO is all about teaching kids about a myriad of things, we shouldn't sugar coat the bad parts. In short, I don't see why we have any right to project our prejudices onto our kids, nor do I think anyone else has the right to push those same prejudices.

That's a fine opinion to have, but I think it's also fine to respect LEGO's decision not to want to delve into it. They don't want to answer angry phone calls from outraged customers, and they want to try and keep their brand away from certain things. You might think it's perfectly acceptable to have a LEGO product that teaches kids about sex, drugs, religion, evolution vs creationism, or any number of crazy topics. But LEGO wants to stay out of it, and that's fine.

DaveE

[LEGO Historian]

ShayDdegray,

Unfortunately the litigation that TLG tried was stopped in its' tracks when some judge ruled that this was considered "art" and not a commercial enterprise. I guess an analogy could be mad with Andy Warhol and the Campbell's Soup Can....

[Faefrost]

This entire discussion reminds me of when TLG was blindsighted by a Polish artist back in 1996, who's ambiguous intentions got TLG to give him the LEGO parts that he wanted for "some" LEGO constructions.

Well that "construction" turned into a very embarrassing moment for TLG back in the 1990s... and I'm sure that not only is WWII still in the minds and nightmares of their dreams... but this publicity fiasco probably was the icing on the cake as to why they will NOT make WWII sets...

For those of you too young to remember... maybe this will give you another indication why there will be no WWII LEGO sets anytime in the future....

http://www.likecool.com/Lego_Concentration_Camp--Toy--Gear.html

And I think that pretty much says it all right there.

Besides the entire concept is sort of badly misplaced. We as AFOL's tend to forget. Lego is a toy company first and foremost. And honestly, there really isn't a huge WW2 toy market out there. There is a fairly substantial adult collectors market. But that's a different matter entirely. and I am not sure how profitable it would be for a product like Lego to delve into. Certainly not the same as being able to put toy merchandise on the shelves at Walmart. Kids today do not play WW2. (And honestly, if they do they probably need help). They like modern Military when they play war. They like stuff they see in movies and they like the more imaginative stuff. WW2 as a subject matter opens Lego up to far too many issues (see above Lego Concentration Camp) while giving far to few returns to compensate. Unless they can attach a very controlled narrative to it (ie Indiana Jones) they will not be creating many if any sets related to 20th Century warfare. if or when they do it will most likely be things like the Sopwith Camel. Adult targeted sets of a less direct nature. I could see them doing a very nice P-51 Mustang or a Spitfire. (An ME 109 less so because of the markings). But I would not expect to ever see a Panzer, or ground troop minifigs, or scenes of war.

[Omicron]

I don't see a problem with tanks and guns and stuff inspired by World War and Cold War eras. But given Lego's stance on the issue, give it 50 more years.

Cuz really, who would be insulted by that?

-Omi

[davee123]

Unfortunately the litigation that TLG tried was stopped in its' tracks when some judge ruled that this was considered "art" and not a commercial enterprise. I guess an analogy could be mad with Andy Warhol and the Campbell's Soup Can....

Didn't they also try and confiscate the materials (which they had donated to him) on the grounds that he mislead them? I recall that part of the fiasco was that LEGO actually SUPPORTED the artist, and LEGO wanted to make it clear that they did NOT support the final product, and wouldn't have supported it initially if they knew what the final result would be.

DaveE

[LEGO Historian]

Didn't they also try and confiscate the materials (which they had donated to him) on the grounds that he mislead them? I recall that part of the fiasco was that LEGO actually SUPPORTED the artist, and LEGO wanted to make it clear that they did NOT support the final product, and wouldn't have supported it initially if they knew what the final result would be.

DaveE

DaveE, I believe you are correct... but in the final analysis, TLG decided that the more they protested, the more publicity the artist was getting, so they just dropped the whole issue, hoping it would leave the limelight. But I'm sure LEGO Legal has new guidelines (and legal forms) in place to prevent this type of blindsighting from happening again.

Edited September 11, 2012 by LEGO Historian

[Scorpiox]

I don't see a problem with tanks and guns and stuff inspired by World War and Cold War eras. But given Lego's stance on the issue, give it 50 more years.

Cuz really, who would be insulted by that?

-Omi

It's not just the fact that the war was recent that LEGO won't be producing sets. Maybe you should read the first page of this topic, and you'll see that the issue is so much more than that. You may not see a problem with 'tanks and guns and stuff', but there is a massive difference between accuarate war models of vehicles from those at Airfix being acceptable for children on an educational basis, and LEGO 'build-your-own-crocodile tank' playing on the carpet with Nazis.

Just because the bloody events of World War Two will be over one hundred years old by then, it doesn't mean that it is any more suitable for children's building toys. People may no longer be insulted by these toys, but much more disappointed at LEGO for showing children that these happenings are okay to trivialise and that nothing was ever really wrong with them.

[AndyC]

Speaking personally, I think there is something different about large scale models like the Sopwith Camel than a minifig based theme. So, I'd have no issue with TLG producing a large scale Spitfire, for example, but a minifig scale Spitfire would be a whole different matter and definitely something I'd feel uncomfortable with. Even some of the IJ sets were skirting very close to the line and really only got away with it because that smiley/jokey minifig characteristic fits with the humorous nature of the IJ movies.

Still I can't blame TLG for staying well away. They clearly aren't short of ideas for sets and themes, so what real advantage would it be for them to stray into such controversial territory?

[Omicron]

It's not just the fact that the war was recent that LEGO won't be producing sets. Maybe you should read the first page of this topic, and you'll see that the issue is so much more than that. You may not see a problem with 'tanks and guns and stuff', but there is a massive difference between accuarate war models of vehicles from those at Airfix being acceptable for children on an educational basis, and LEGO 'build-your-own-crocodile tank' playing on the carpet with Nazis

This is going with the assumption they would actually make Nazi minifigs, right? Cuz they don't have to make them. That's the problem with the first page, which I read, is everyone jumped to conclusions with the whole "Nazis blah blah". Cuz like I said, would anyone really be insulted by tanks and stuff? No, of course not.

Cobi and Oxford monopolized with military themes without involving Nazis.

-Omi

[Capt.JohnPaul]

This is going with the assumption they would actually make Nazi minifigs, right? Cuz they don't have to make them. That's the problem with the first page, which I read, is everyone jumped to conclusions with the whole "Nazis blah blah". Cuz like I said, would anyone really be insulted by tanks and stuff? No, of course not.

Cobi and Oxford monopolized with military themes without involving Nazis.

-Omi

Well, cause, when someone says "WW2" we all think "Nazis." The name of the topic is "WW2."

And who wants their 6 year old kid to play with toys with racist, maniacal, political factions? As I said before, it opens up the possibility of kids calling Germans "nazis" whenever they see one- cause in their playtime, that's what they do.

[Omicron]

Well, cause, when someone says "WW2" we all think "Nazis." The name of the topic is "WW2."

And who wants their 6 year old kid to play with toys with racist, maniacal, political factions? As I said before, it opens up the possibility of kids calling Germans "nazis" whenever they see one- cause in their playtime, that's what they do.

I don't think of Nazis when someone mentions WW2. I think of WW2 when someone mentions WW2. Plus the Nazis wasn't the only thing. There were other things going on during that time.

And 6 year olds already do, just in different forms. GI Joe is a good example if you delve deep enough. And aren't you over-generalizing just a bit? I said Lego doesn't have to make Nazis if they were to make stuff inspired from the World War and Cold War era. Nazis weren't involved in WWI and definately not involved in Cold War.

-Omi

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I don't think of Nazis when someone mentions WW2.

*jaw hits floor emoticon*

Let's get logical here. An action oriented theme will have good guy and badguys.

Good guys= America, Britain, USSR, France, etc.

Badguys: Umm.... Nazi Germany for sure.

There's the problem, LEGO is a company that sells things all over the world. They'll offend a country one way or another. Did you hear the Russians protesting when Indiana Jones with the crystal skull came out?

[BrickG]

Yeah, the first thing I think of about WWII is Hitler and the Nazis.

[Omicron]

*jaw hits floor emoticon*

I don't understand why you are surprised.

Let's get logical here. An action oriented theme will have good guy and badguys.

Good guys= America, Britain, USSR, France, etc.

Badguys: Umm.... Nazi Germany for sure.

Sorry but I grew up with the Green guys vs the Tan guys. That's a logical way to make it happen. And I said inspired. Doesn't have to be entirally based.

Did you hear the Russians protesting when Indiana Jones with the crystal skull came out?

No I didn't, because everyone protests, and it probably wasn't that important anyways.

Besides there has been backlash with the Friends line, and yet Lego is still making them.

-Omi

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I don't understand why you are surprised.

I won't answer that. I'll wait to see what others think.

Sorry but I grew up with the Green guys vs the Tan guys. That's a logical way to make it happen. And I said inspired. Doesn't have to be entirally based.

I thought this topic was on making WW2, not a general military theme. And personally, I think making certain color soldiers will instantly strike out as a certain country. (Green- oh look, USA, gray- hmm... resemblance to Germany, etc.)

No I didn't, because everyone protests, and it probably wasn't that important anyways.

Besides there has been backlash with the Friends line, and yet Lego is still making them.

-Omi

To you, it's not important, but I'm saying LEGO won't release a theme that includes real life nations fighting.

True.... but Friends isn't about maniacal dictators putting people in gas chambers or killing people.

[Omicron]

I won't answer that. I'll wait to see what others think.

Because it wasn't Nazis at war. It was the Axis powers (which believe it or not, alos included countries other than Germany) VS the Allied nations. The Holocaust was just a piece of what went behind the scenes of WW2, but it was never what the war was about. It was preventing invasion and facism being spread over the entire world. Not a lot of us even knew what was going on until after we went into to stop them. We didn't go in to stop the Holocaust. We went in to kick Hitler off his pedestal and kick his megablocks out of Europe and help -everyone- that was affected.

Then we have Pearl Harbor and the atomic bombs. Were Nazi's involved? Nope. Ben Afleck had more involvement with that than Adolf Hitler did.

I thought this topic was on making WW2, not a general military theme. And personally, I think making certain color soldiers will instantly strike out as a certain country. (Green- oh look, USA, gray- hmm... resemblance to Germany, etc.)

This topic is, but my responses were more of a solution of getting around that "ewwww WW2" vibe everyone is giving off. Must I repeat the whole "would anyone be offended by tanks and stuff?"

To you, it's not important, but I'm saying LEGO won't release a theme that includes real life nations fighting.

And they didn't. So what did a protest on the movie have to do with it?

True.... but Friends isn't about maniacal dictators putting people in gas chambers or killing people.

No but it stereotypes today's demographics. Is the present not as important as the past?

And back on the good guy VS bad guys. In the Western theme, who was the good guy? The Cowboys? Or the Indians? The Cavalry? What about the Pirates theme? Pirates? Islanders? Armada? You have a blending of different cultures right here.

-Omi

[Weil]

well, I'd say the pot is well and truly stirred, (though this was NOT my direct intention).

I'm Australian, so please pack away your arsenal of anti-Yank weapons. (:P) I have English relatives/friends with long, long direct but distant memories of the Blitz, I think most of them would agree that it's long since done and dusted. If anyone is seriously offended I'd suggest some counselling is in order, or perhaps talking to thier Pastor.

Well I wasn't offended before, I had a grievance with you referring to the worlds population of people over ~80 as 'basically nobody' but really I just thought you a bit misinformed and possessing a different opinion to myself and most others. Your tone and response here is beginning to 'annoy' though. You seem to have failed to delve into many of the points and reasons people have mentioned and instead make sweeping statements about how we must all be people who grew up rolled up in cotton wool and mockingly though never the less rudely refer us to psychiatrists and pastors.

If we wait for every single person with any sort of memories of the horrors of WW2, we'll lose all contact with the subject, Wiki notwithstanding.

I would entirely agree as would most of the world that it is important to study, educate and acknowledge the events of WWII. Making toys isn't exactly a form of historical discovery or debate though is it.

In fact one of them in particular would be first in line to buy a Spitfire or a Mosquito. Those thundering Merlins tend to leave very deep and positive memories.

But having being old enough to experience WWII they're not exactly in LEGO's target audience are they so this point is pretty invalid!

Perhaps these sets should be limited to UCS sets and if sensitivities are still as high as some members of this board would imply, perhaps release them into very limited markets and let the bricklink underground railroad put the sets into the hands of the wowserish folk in the UK/Germany.

LEGO is a worldwide brand and we live in a fully networked world. LEGO deciding to make WWII sets but not sell them to some of the most affected countries would probably be even more controversial than if they sold them everywhere because it would be as if they're trying to hide them from people!

The market is there and LEGO desperately needs every shekel it can lay its hands on if my 'inside source' can be relied upon. The friends system/themes will only go so far, though I really do welcome the loss of the vaguely misoginist undertones LEGO has always had, it wont be enough to stem the tide. The huge raft of military fans is effectively untapped aside from a few non-LEGO attempts and even those have been American fighters etc. If LEGO chooses a bolder approach and moves into WW2 stuff, then they may have a chance of surviving. I would much rather have LEGO with a 'gentler and as neutral as possible WW2 theme', than no LEGO at all.

LEGO was in some financial trouble several years back ~2003/4 but made a decisive recovery and in recent years look as strong as ever with consistent growth year on year. Also the 'huge raft of military fans' when it comes to WWII recreation is, I would imagine, much more prevalent with adults than kids.

The only other really valid perspective here the one about it being too gritty and 'real'... well fine, make 'em UCS and those objections pretty much vanish into the 16+ stratosphere. Kids grow up these days, faster than many of us are comfortable with. I for one see little value in censorship, esp about topics which impact thier history. A child who grows up in cotton wool grows up soft.

UCS has the wrong implications, a huge set full of mini figures that portrays historical pain and misery is not the answer. What would be different as people have said is if the sets were construction based and focused on iconic machines or buildings then this would be a lot more acceptable.

Pretending it didn't happen is the first step down a very dark and dangerous road. Ok so kids should not be exposed to war and all the other negative stuff until they are old enough to handle it but having that decision made for the State or by Corporate interests is folly. I say let there be UCS WW2 sets and let the market sort it out. Helicopter parents can fly off somewhere pretty full of rainbows and Unicorns and candy floss. The rest of us would like the choice to expose our kids to the truth, no matter how grim or gritty it may be.

Nobody is saying it didn't happen we just don't think it should be a child's play thing! Yes kids should be educated about WWII but encouraging recreational role-play games about the events of WWII is entirely different! As for these 'Helicopter Parents', no parents cannot prevent kids being exposed to it if toy stores are displaying the sets and school friends have them to play with.

None have addressed the positives I mentioned. Technologies not directly related to killing people advanced in huge leaps thanks chiefly to the war for one small isolated example, service ceilings on aircraft climbed steeply during the war. Even the really grim business of the Nazi concentration camps had thier abysmal upsides in terms of medical research on the Jewish 'non-people'.

These are induced positive by-products of WWII but whether WWII had any positive implications on the world is not what we're discussing!

In any case, that's not the real issue. The focus should be on the advances we all made under the auspices of war. The jet engine for example. The steam turbine in ships is another. If the LEGO conscience needs to be assuaged, then make it very clear that the models are all about the technology, perhaps even going to the extent of creating a Merlin Engine Technic kit and perhaps a Jumo Jet engine and let the buyer decide if it ends up in Lancaster or some other warbird. With the advent of Cuusoo and and the myriad of other constructor assemblages, I'm sure we could come to sone sort of compromise.

Agreed if they're more featured on technology and construction rather than role play of WWII events then this makes it much more acceptable as many people have stated.

LEGO is all about teaching kids about a myriad of things, we shouldn't sugar coat the bad parts. In short, I don't see why we have any right to project our prejudices onto our kids, nor do I think anyone else has the right to push those same prejudices.

What are you saying? By your logic LEGO should deliberately make dangerous sharp LEGO parts capable of severe injury so that kids learn to avoid stabbing themselves, that LEGO should release some sets that are just empty boxes so that kids learn to deal with disappointment. Don't be so silly, LEGO is a recreational product to be enjoyed, a toy, a play thing, if it teaches kids some principles of construction or brings out creative talents through role-play that's a bonus but it's not responsible for the well rounded education and upbringing of children!

And yes parents are responsible for their own children's upbringing but that's beside the point. LEGO is responsible for it's brand image and is therefore fully able to pick it's own moral stance as well as sensibly avoiding something that would have a negative impact on it's brand image, a brand image that many parents are currently highly in favour of.

I don't think of Nazis when someone mentions WW2. I think of WW2 when someone mentions WW2. Plus the Nazis wasn't the only thing. There were other things going on during that time.

I don't think you would deny The Nazis were a pretty big part of WWII. I think Nazis (among others) is a completely normal mental image conjured up by the phrase WWII.

And 6 year olds already do, just in different forms. GI Joe is a good example if you delve deep enough. And aren't you over-generalizing just a bit? I said Lego doesn't have to make Nazis if they were to make stuff inspired from the World War and Cold War era. Nazis weren't involved in WWI and definately not involved in Cold War.

As a little aside I'm a bit confused why you add the stronger statement that Nazis 'definitely' weren't involved in the Cold War in comparison to just weren't involved in WWI. Surely it would be more normal to just say Nazis weren't involved in WWI or the Cold War. If anything since WWI is pre Nazi Party and Cold War is post Nazi Party then it would be easier to argue that Nazis had more of an effect on the Cold War than WWI.

And back on the good guy VS bad guys. In the Western theme, who was the good guy? The Cowboys? Or the Indians? The Cavalry? What about the Pirates theme? Pirates? Islanders? Armada? You have a blending of different cultures right here.

-Omi

This is a key part of the point. LEGO could not portray a Nazi faction as possible good guys in a specific WWII theme. I think we would all agree Nazis should not be envisaged as potential child heroes. Whether a child makes cowboys, indians or cavalry the heroes is far less problematic!

To sum up, when do I think it is the right time to make a specific WWII theme? Never. Just as it is never time to specifically make a Napoleonic War theme with British and French armies, but a theme inspired by that historical period is ok in my opinion. When is it time to make a theme inspired by the historical period covering WWII? In my opinion when contemporary warfare no longer still resembles it so closely, whenever that may be.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Weil

[Omicron]

I don't think you would deny The Nazis were a pretty big part of WWII.

I just did.

If anything since WWI is pre Nazi Party and Cold War is post Nazi Party then it would be easier to argue that Nazis had more of an effect on the Cold War than WWI.

Except the Cold War was mainly between USA, England, Russia, and China. Nazis, if any were around, were pretty much stamped out. Communism was in and fascism saw its way out.

-Omi

[Capt.JohnPaul]

@Omicron- regarding the West theme and Pirates-

Yes, they are cultures, but they represented no real life, exact event. The theme was called "West." Not Manifest Destiny.

Pirates was kid friendly. It wasn't actually "true pirates." It was about finding treasure and escaping sharks, not raiding ships and hanging people.

And what's this "Nazis weren't a big part of WW2?" They were. Nazi Germany. Nazi means "nationalist." They wanted a super race. And communism was worse then nazism. Stalin (I believe) killed more people than Hitler. Mao zetung killed more people than Stalin. So Cold War is out. (Besides, why would we want kids playing with nukes?)

[Weil]

I just did.

Then I'm afraid I cannot understand your view point what-so-ever. Nazis were definitely not the only part of WWII but they certainly played a large role. Since this is moving away from LEGO though I will just have to agree to disagree.

Except the Cold War was mainly between USA, England, Russia, and China. Nazis, if any were around, were pretty much stamped out. Communism was in and fascism saw its way out.

-Omi

Entirely true, but the potential to have had some small impact is surely less strong than the absolute impossibility of having any impact on events prior to their existence. It was a minor point though and again off-topic, I just thought it curious.

And what's this "Nazis weren't a big part of WW2?" They were. Nazi Germany. Nazi means "nationalist." They wanted a super race. And communism was worse then nazism. Stalin (I believe) killed more people than Hitler. Mao zetung killed more people than Stalin. So Cold War is out. (Besides, why would we want kids playing with nukes?)

If you're implying communist states took part in the Cold War but not WWII then needless to say you're wrong. (I'm not sure if you are) That said, again while I am fully aware there was more to WWII than The Nazis I can't understand anyone saying The Nazis didn't have a large role in it.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Weil

[Omicron]

@Omicron- regarding the West theme and Pirates-

Yes, they are cultures, but they represented no real life, exact event. The theme was called "West." Not Manifest Destiny.

Pirates was kid friendly. It wasn't actually "true pirates." It was about finding treasure and escaping sharks, not raiding ships and hanging people.

Right, so who was the good guy and bad guy? There had to have been one of each.

And what's this "Nazis weren't a big part of WW2?" They were. Nazi Germany. Nazi means "nationalist." They wanted a super race. And communism was worse then nazism. Stalin (I believe) killed more people than Hitler. Mao zetung killed more people than Stalin. So Cold War is out. (Besides, why would we want kids playing with nukes?)

You missed my point, which I applaud you for. There was more to WW2 than just Nazis and Germany. Or are your history books not up to date?

The theme was called "West." Not Manifest Destiny.

So why not a theme called "War" or "Battlefront", not World War? Are people that insulted by tanks and stuff? I underestimated the sensitivity you have when it comes to tanks.

Nazis were definitely not the only part of WWII but they certainly played a large role.

But not the entire role, which is what I am saying. Everyone here is just cancelling out everything else that happened in WW2 and just makes it all about tne Nazis.

-Omi

Edited September 11, 2012 by Omicron