WW2 and general warry-ness avoidance on the part of LEGO corp.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Since it's hard to tell your tone on the internet, I'm getting a sarcastic vibe, and I'm feeling insulted:

You missed my point, which I applaud you for. There was more to WW2 than just Nazis and Germany. Or are your history books not up to date?

Please stop throwing insults. None of us are. Can we just have a discussion? A mod will step in soon, so let's tone it down.

Of course there was more to WW2 than Nazis. I'm not insulted by tanks, I think they're cool. But this isn't about a war theme. The first post states this is WW2.

[Omicron]

But this isn't about a war theme. The first post states this is WW2.

I know, and I made a point of just making the models that were in such war, and the other 2 that preceded and followed. In a sense, a possible loophole (even though Lego strictly states no military, but there is always hope). And I ended up getting into this debate, which I didn't mean to insult.

But back to the point, Lego can get away with Green army guy in a tank VS tan army guy in a plane. Generic uniforms like they did with the Indy sets. No specifics, and you choose who the bad guy is. And of course there will be that certain group that will bicker about it, but at the same time, they will bicker over anything. A custom "terrorist" fig made by BrickArms was mistakenly associated with Lego and the people were like "shame on you Lego for doing this", when Lego was like "uh we didn't do it".

-Omi

Edited September 12, 2012 by Omicron

[Weil]

Right, so who was the good guy and bad guy? There had to have been one of each.

I disagree, that's a very simplistic view. Some historical people are clear to attribute to being good or bad but most are not.

But not the entire role, which is what I am saying. Everyone here is just cancelling out everything else that happened in WW2 and just makes it all about tne Nazis.

-Omi

The first part I agree on as I have said, I'm not saying it is all about the Nazis. What I said was that someone having the mental image of Nazis being created by the phrase WWII seems perfectly reasonable to me and that they played a large role in WWII and would be expected to feature in a WWII theme and I stand by that. If someone mentioned WWII Soviet Russia, British Fighter Pilots, US landing crafts, whatever I would also think these perfectly valid too! I was just surprised at the extent to which you shot down people talking about the Nazis and then in your previous post to affirm that you deny they played a large role.

So why not a theme called "War" or "Battlefront", not World War? Are people that insulted by tanks and stuff? I underestimated the sensitivity you have when it comes to tanks.

As I've said a generic 20th Century War theme would be more acceptable to me than a WWI or WWII theme. Personally I still think it's not quite right for LEGO though for the reasons I've previously listed. I would find a 20th Century War theme unusual for LEGO but if LEGO wants to do that then I wouldn't be blown away by it. I would be completely shocked to see a WWII theme or anything strongly indicative of one though.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Weil

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I know, and I made a point of just making the models that were in such war, and the other 2 that preceded and followed. In a sense, a possible loophole (even though Lego strictly states no military, but there is always hope). And I ended up getting into this debate, which I didn't mean to insult.

But back to the point, Lego can get away with Green army guy in a tank VS tan army guy in a plane. Generic uniforms like they did with the Indy sets. No specifics, and you choose who the bad guy is. And of course there will be that certain group that will bicker about it, but at the same time, they will bicker over anything. A custom "terrorist" fig made by BrickArms was mistakenly associated with Lego and the people were like "shame on you Lego for doing this", when Lego was like "uh we didn't do it".

-Omi

Of course. They made the Sopwith Camel. We could probably expect a model sometime in the future. But it won't be called "Panzer." And I'm unsure if they'll be a plane model called "Red Baron."

I don't think LEGO would have a green guy in a tank against a plane. As cool as that would be... but they won't. LEGO city police don't even have guns. So they won't make war vehicles, as appealing as it is to us.

[Weil]

If they made a Panzer Tank equivalent of the Sopwith Camel then I would think Panzer was a perfectly reasonable name.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

If they made a Panzer Tank equivalent of the Sopwith Camel then I would think Panzer was a perfectly reasonable name.

Really? I would think Panzer would have an "evil" connotation.

[Faefrost]

I know, and I made a point of just making the models that were in such war, and the other 2 that preceded and followed. In a sense, a possible loophole (even though Lego strictly states no military, but there is always hope). And I ended up getting into this debate, which I didn't mean to insult.

But back to the point, Lego can get away with Green army guy in a tank VS tan army guy in a plane. Generic uniforms like they did with the Indy sets. No specifics, and you choose who the bad guy is. And of course there will be that certain group that will bicker about it, but at the same time, they will bicker over anything. A custom "terrorist" fig made by BrickArms was mistakenly associated with Lego and the people were like "shame on you Lego for doing this", when Lego was like "uh we didn't do it".

-Omi

The key point is Lego has repeatedly stated they have no interest in doing such a thing. While they understand and accept the nature of "conflict and weapons" and how it figures into particularly the development of young boys (go back and re read that statement from a few pages back. The Wisdom in it really is fantastic.) They have said that they are not a company that makes "War Toys". Or at least not what can be construed as Modern War toys. Nothing that can be equated to modern lifestyles. A good determinant is to think "Was Grandma in that War? Was someone that raised me effected by it?" If the answer is frequently yes, then it will be viewed as a Modern enough event to cause issues.

WW2 in particular has a few other bits of baggage attached. This was a war that raged over and around the people that founded the company. The company's stand on it was factored by that simple fact. Those that made that decision lived through it. They chose not to memorialize what they lived through in all of its horrors and heroism. Lego's primary home is Europe. In Europe you cannot ever separate WW2 from the Nazi's. Sorry I hate to tell you, but that is how it works. Just look at what is being said in the Greek or Italian press about German's these days. This is above and beyond the more obvious horrors of the war such as the concentration camps. Really do you want to put a Panzer tank on the toy store shelves in Poland? How do you think that would go over?

Which brings up one of the other kind of creepy and often unmentioned bits of baggage in this whole equation. Let's be upfront about this. For most of WW2 the Nazi's had the way cooler toys. Really. They had striking and disturbingly effective tanks and planes. Everything about them just radiates cool. Unless you can put into perspective exactly who and what is driving them and what they are driving them to do. This is not something really appropriate for a child. Children will grab the Panzers and Tigers over the dumpy looking Shermans. heck an overly large amount of Western democracy loving adults have some sort of truly creepy fascination with Nazi hardware. Just go to any plastic model show or competition. It's the Sith/Imperial Stormtrooper principle taken into the real world in really disturbing ways.

The end point of all of it, is there is No benefit, no compelling reason for Lego to even consider changing their stance on this. Their current stand serves them well. It is morally justified, and it is in line with a successful business process.

[LEGO Historian]

Ironically way back in 1953 (the only year without a LEGO catalog, but with a 4 page Idea Booklet instead), there was a model with 2 non-LEGO army soldiers in this Danish pamphlet... this was the ONLY time that TLG ever showed any modern warfare, granted it wasn't their own....

Edited September 12, 2012 by LEGO Historian